Watched the Louisville game on Replay ...

[TD_6082]

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that CV is comparable to Tua in any way. Nor is anyone suggesting that Jurk is comparable to Hurts in any way. Other than that they are all humans playing QB. .

What is being suggested is that a coach like Saban, i.e., an elite coach, would never have sat back and watched 4 full games of the Jurk show before pulling the cord. If it had been Saban, I don’t think he’d have waited 4 full possessions to make the change. Of course, a coach like Saban never would have been in that position to begin with, but this is a hypothetical debate.

CV may not have been ready for this, he still may not be ready for it, but what was very clear is that Jurk didn’t have it, or anything close to it.

I know it’s a delicate equation to bench your starter especially when you bring him in specifically to be your starter. But it’s hard to imagine that Duzz and the coaches didn’t know what they had in Jurk way before Game 1. It only took 1 quarter of the Woffle game for us armchair coaches to see the guy, for whatever reason, injury maybe, head issues maybe, both maybe, can’t throw a competent football. So it’s at least a debate that he should have been hooked much earlier.

The coaches all saw what we saw in game one. There's a reason they make millions coaching football and we post on message boards.

They just seemed Phil the best option at giving Pitt a chance to win at that particular time.

There is nothing comparable coaching at a program like Alabama compared to coaching at Pitt

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

They just seemed Phil the best option at giving Pitt a chance to win at that particular time.

And as we all know, since football coaches are, in fact, the smartest human beings on the planet they never, ever make a mistake.

 

[thebadby2]

The coaches all saw what we saw in game one. There's a reason they make millions coaching football and we post on message boards.

They just seemed Phil the best option at giving Pitt a chance to win at that particular time.

There is nothing comparable coaching at a program like Alabama compared to coaching at Pitt

No kidding. And there is nothing comparable about the Pitt coach versus the Alabama coach, other than that they are both college football head coaches. Guys like Saban get to programs like Bama because they separate themselves from the pack in ability and achievement. Guys like Duzz end up staying at programs like Pitt for 10 years because they don’t.

I don’t think it’s as simple as the coaches thinking Phil gave them the best chance to win. His flaws would have been obvious from his first day of practice. And maybe they weren’t very confident in CV and Yarnell, but I doubt they did as much as they could have to prepare either of those guys to step in and start early if needed since Jurk was the preordained starter from the day his transfer was announced, which he very obviously was. I think they made a commitment to Jurk to get his transfer that they felt that had to try to honor. While that may be admirable on one level, it was costly on another. I know it’s not a simple black and white issue, I get that 100%. There are a lot of variables and I do understand why they stuck with Jurk as long as they did. But the writing was clearly on the wall by halftime of the Cinci game.

I’m also not suggesting that CV was some clear cut better option, not at all. He started one game and did just enough to get it done, who knows what happens next. But Jurk was Junk before he ever got here, the coaches had to know that. He was damaged goods and he can’t even spin a football. When Plan A isn’t working, you go to Plan B and you don’t hesitate.

 

[TD_6082]

No kidding. And there is nothing comparable about the Pitt coach versus the Alabama coach, other than that they are both college football head coaches. Guys like Saban get to programs like Bama because they separate themselves from the pack in ability and achievement. Guys like Duzz end up staying at programs like Pitt for 10 years because they don’t.

I don’t think it’s as simple as the coaches thinking Phil gave them the best chance to win. His flaws would have been obvious from his first day of practice. And maybe they weren’t very confident in CV and Yarnell, but I doubt they did as much as they could have to prepare either of those guys to step in and start early if needed since Jurk was the preordained starter from the day his transfer was announced, which he very obviously was. I think they made a commitment to Jurk to get his transfer that they felt that had to try to honor. While that may be admirable on one level, it was costly on another. I know it’s not a simple black and white issue, I get that 100%. There are a lot of variables and I do understand why they stuck with Jurk as long as they did. But the writing was clearly on the wall by halftime of the Cinci game.

I’m also not suggesting that CV was some clear cut better option, not at all. He started one game and did just enough to get it done, who knows what happens next. But Jurk was Junk before he ever got here, the coaches had to know that. He was damaged goods and he can’t even spin a football. When Plan A isn’t working, you go to Plan B and you don’t hesitate.

Not if Plan B doesn't know the offense, can't make a pre snap read & doesn't know where to throw the football.

To suggest you roll with plan B under those circumstances is just bat shit crazy.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Not if Plan B doesn't know the offense, can't make a pre snap read & doesn't know where to throw the football.

To suggest you roll with plan B under those circumstances is just bat shit crazy.

If only we could have hired someone to help plan B learn the offense and figure out his presnap reads to help him understand where to throw the football.

Damn you, NCAA, for not allowing us to hire any assistant coaches!

 

[TD_6082]

If only we could have hired someone to help plan B learn the offense and figure out his presnap reads to help him understand where to throw the football.

Damn you, NCAA, for not allowing us to hire any assistant coaches!

I know right? His second career start and he still doesn't have it all figured out.

Wait until you hear about the coach that had the nation's #1 offense last year. He starts 6th year guy that still can't make pre snap reads.

If only all these QBs could develop as quickly as Kenny Pickett.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I know right? His second career start and he still doesn't have it all figured out.

Well according to you he doesn't have any of it figured out, let alone all of it. Which is odd for a guy in his third year at a P5 school, one might think. I mean not you, but just about everyone else.

The fact that you continue to hold the party line that Pitt had no choice but to start Jurkovec and piss away the first half of the season is an odd hill to die on.

 

[Jakhny]

Completely agree on all points.

 

[TD_6082]

Well according to you he doesn't have any of it figured out, let alone all of it. Which is odd for a guy in his third year at a P5 school, one might think. I mean not you, but just about everyone else.

The fact that you continue to hold the party line that Pitt had no choice but to start Jurkovec and piss away the first half of the season is an odd hill to die on.

😂

Starting CV wasn't going to win Pitt another game. Pitt was screwed for 2022 when they failed to land experienced quality QB transfer.

I'm not pissed about, because this team doesn't have the potential to be good. They lost too much talent the 2 years and a program like Pitt just doesn't recruit well enough to sustain a top 25 level.

I'm sure Villeaux has some things figured out. Obviously, sliding past the sticks isn't one of them. Neither is calling for the snap so it doesn't hit the man in motion in the nuts.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Neither is calling for the snap so it doesn't hit the man in motion in the nuts.

If you've watched all the other games you'd know that our sixth year senior quarterback apparently hasn't figured that one out either.

 

[TD_6082]

I watched the other games. I'm pretty sure you watched them all besides the UNC game.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I watched the other games. I'm pretty sure you watched them all besides the UNC game.

Unlike you, I was AT the North Carolina game.

 

[TD_6082]

Unlike you, I was AT the North Carolina game.

So did CV look a lot better than Jurk? From my couch, it didn't really look like it.

Perhaps if they threw him in on the road in Morgantown or Blacksburg on a Saturday night where it's much easier to play, he would have played much better.

Fwiw, I live 7 hours away. I did the up and back to Pitt many times from Alcoa, then Nashville, Tennessee. I made the 4 hour trip to Winston Salem Saturday.

 

[Franb]

😂

Starting CV wasn't going to win Pitt another game. Pitt was screwed for 2022 when they failed to land experienced quality QB transfer.

I'm not pissed about, because this team doesn't have the potential to be good. They lost too much talent the 2 years and a program like Pitt just doesn't recruit well enough to sustain a top 25 level.

I'm sure Villeaux has some things figured out. Obviously, sliding past the sticks isn't one of them. Neither is calling for the snap so it doesn't hit the man in motion in the nuts.

How can you, or anyone else, know what would have happened if he had started earlier in the season? None of us can know that, but what we do know is what we saw from Pitt’s quarterback play for the first 5 games, and it was not good.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

So did CV look a lot better than Jurk? From my couch, it didn't really look like it.

Perhaps if they threw him in on the road in Morgantown or Blacksburg on a Saturday night where it's much easier to play, he would have played much better.

Fwiw, I live 7 hours away. I did the up and back to Pitt many times from Alcoa, then Nashville, Tennessee. I made the 4 hour trip to Winston Salem Saturday.

That night, no he did not.

Is that a surprise to anyone that the guy who didn't get first team reps in either the spring or the fall didn't look any better than the 6th year senior who did get the first team reps in the spring and in the fall?

Competent coaches would have known from the start that Jurkovich didn't have what it takes to be a quarterback at this level, at least not any more. Competent coaches would have had Veilleux prepared to start against Wofford. There should have been no need to even consider throwing him in on the road against a less than mediocre West Virginia or a less than mediocre Virginia Tech on the road for his first start, because his first start should have been a cushy assignment against a mediocre FCS team. Then he could have started against a bad Cincinnati team, and only then would he have needed to play in a road game against a bad team.

 

[TD_6082]

How can you, or anyone else, know what would have happened if he had started earlier in the season? None of us can know that, but what we do know is what we saw from Pitt’s quarterback play for the first 5 games, and it was not good.

Did you see Veilleux play against UNC or Wofford?

You're right. We don't know. However, what we can say for certain is that Pitt entered the 2023 season with a freaking mess for a QB situation. There was no option available that lent a favorable chance at success.

 

[TD_6082]

That night, no he did not.

Is that a surprise to anyone that the guy who didn't get first team reps in either the spring or the fall didn't look any better than the 6th year senior who did get the first team reps in the spring and in the fall?

Competent coaches would have known from the start that Jurkovich didn't have what it takes to be a quarterback at this level, at least not any more. Competent coaches would have had Veilleux prepared to start against Wofford. There should have been no need to even consider throwing him in on the road against a less than mediocre West Virginia or a less than mediocre Virginia Tech on the road for his first start, because his first start should have been a cushy assignment against a mediocre FCS team. Then he could have started against a bad Cincinnati team, and only then would he have needed to play in a road game against a bad team.

Literally no competent coach would ever do what you're suggesting. It just does not happen. Coaches will always default to experience and knowledge over a guy that doesn't know what the hell they are doing.

And as crazy as it sounds, some guys suck in practice and somehow show up on gameday and perform.

Damn near every coach on the planet will try to scheme, simplify, or trim the playbook to try to find ways to scratch out wins before throwing a young QB out there as green as CV.

See Clemson with DJ/Klubnik or Tennessee, who still trots out Joe Milton to hand off 35 times a game knowing he can't execute their offense. That's despite paying some supposed super hotshot who has been on campus since January upwards of $5 mil to sit the bench.

The main thing is to get it right with CV's development. It would be nice to win more games, but this was always going to be a bridge year for this offense. There's a lot of young guys out there making contributions.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Literally no competent coach would ever do what you're suggesting. It just does not happen. Coaches will always default to experience and knowledge over a guy that doesn't know what the hell they are doing.

You act like Veilleux is a freshman who just got here in the fall rather than a third year player who has actual game experience at the P5 level before and was here in January and went through workouts and spring practice with the team.

No competent coach would have ever believed that the 2023 version of Phil Jurkovec had any chance at all of being anything other than an awful quarterback at this level.

But ours did.

The funny thing is that after his second college start our head coach is already talking about opening up the offense for the rest of the season because the quarterback has already shown that he can handle it.

 

[TD_6082]

You act like Veilleux is a freshman who just got here in the fall rather than a third year player who has actual game experience at the P5 level before and was here in January and went through workouts and spring practice with the team.

No competent coach would have ever believed that the 2023 version of Phil Jurkovec had any chance at all of being anything other than an awful quarterback at this level.

But ours did.

The funny thing is that after his second college start our head coach is already talking about opening up the offense for the rest of the season because the quarterback has already shown that he can handle it.

Well of course the coaches knew he was awful. As a program, sometimes you have to get from point A to point B with an awful QB. It's not like they were ever going to hitch their wagon to damaged goods like Jurk long term.

Not many more accomplished, competent, offensive minds than Philip Montgomery, and yet he's rolling with Payton Thorne this year. It happens. It doesn't mean the coaches are incompetent.


As for Narduzzi's comments about opening up the offense more... I don't know if CV has shown he can handle it or not, but it's going to be really hard to win going forward if they don't open it up more. Besides, there is nothing really to lose at this point. He can learn from his mistakes, and play through them.