Watching some NBA -- Cleveland - Minnesota ...

[DT_PITT]

... sometimes you just are completely amazed with the shooting ability of players at this level. This was one of those times.

The teams have combined for 40 threes. An incredible number of these shots were made with defenders right in their faces.

 

[DT_PITT]

An amazing game. Lebron hits a deep guarded fadeway as time expires to give the Cavs the win in overtime.

 

[NCanton Panther]

An amazing game. Lebron hits a deep guarded fadeway as time expires to give the Cavs the win in overtime.

Much needed win for the Cavs, things haven’t been pretty for them lately. Good bounce back after their performance yesterday.

 

[DiehardPanther]

An amazing game. Lebron hits a deep guarded fadeway as time expires to give the Cavs the win in overtime.

He is very close to reaching best of all time status.

 

[BFo8]

Thought it was too good that be true that the tanking Cavs were 4 point home dogs tonight.

Didn’t get there though.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

... sometimes you just are completely amazed with the shooting ability of players at this level. This was one of those times.

The teams have combined for 40 threes. An incredible number of these shots were made with defenders right in their faces.

It’s a completely different game than College. The GS Ok City game last night was sick. Westbrook had 21 in the 1st qtr.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

The combination of the fastest pace in three or more decades and the amazing shooting ability of players hides the fact NBA players do indeed play good defense. The scoring numbers are up because advanced stats taught them how important outside shooting is and because everyone realized your true shooting percentage also goes up by getting shots up earlier in the shot clock.

The "seven seconds or less" Suns actually would be somewhere around 20th in pace in the 2018 NBA.

 

[pitt2533]

The athletes in the NBA are totally ridiculous. The shooting is great, but every time I watch the NBA I am amazed at the level of athlete there is on the floor.

I mean I know most of these guys are tall, but the ease and grace they have when they elevate to block a shot or dunk is simply unreal. There are guys that literally bounce off two feet from like 7 feet away from the hoop and jam it home. Guys like Westbrook have so much explosion it is crazy. Amazing really.

In saying that, I am a much bigger fan of the college game still. Most likely because I have a hometown team and a rooting interest in Pitt although right now that rooting interest is at an all time low.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

The thing to remember is in addition to the fact they're competing against the best former college players from the last 10-15 years, in their adult primes, they're also competing against "the world". International players are now almost 30% of NBA rosters. So yeah, the gap between college and pro ball is very big. The best player in college in a given year may end up a marginal rotation player in the pros.

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy college beyond Pitt too. I do. It just visually looks like a very different game because of the difference in size, athleticism, and scheme.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

The thing to remember is in addition to the fact they're competing against the best former college players from the last 10-15 years, in their adult primes, they're also competing against "the world". International players are now almost 30% of NBA rosters. So yeah, the gap between college and pro ball is very big. The best player in college in a given year may end up a marginal rotation player in the pros.

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy college beyond Pitt too. I do. It just visually looks like a very different game because of the difference in size, athleticism, and scheme.

I’ve heard uva could lock them up on defense

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

#1 probably!

 

[Ski11585]

The combination of the fastest pace in three or more decades and the amazing shooting ability of players hides the fact NBA players do indeed play good defense. The scoring numbers are up because advanced stats taught them how important outside shooting is and because everyone realized your true shooting percentage also goes up by getting shots up earlier in the shot clock.

The "seven seconds or less" Suns actually would be somewhere around 20th in pace in the 2018 NBA.

I heard a great story about how the first person Spolestra called after the Heat won their first title was D'Antoni, thanking him for making it possible and revolutionizing the game with his approach.

 

[mo cheeks]

He is very close to reaching best of all time status.

I will take Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson. maybe kareem.

 

[Ski11585]

Trade deadline is bonkers this year.

 

[BFo8]

Trade deadline is bonkers this year.

Cavs positioning themselves for the inevitable loss of LeBron next season.

Lakers freeing up space to sign him.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Cavs positioning themselves for the inevitable loss of LeBron next season.

Lakers freeing up space to sign him.

The Lakers are still nowhere close to competing with GS even if they sign LBJ. What other realistic moves do they make to get there?

 

[DiehardPanther]

I will take Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson. maybe kareem.

Jordan, LBJ, and Kobe are the 3 in the conversation.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

Jordan, LBJ, and Kobe are the 3 in the conversation.

Kobe, really? Great player who is just the inferior version of Jordan, so by default I don't think he can be #1.

I think it's a four way discussion. Jordan, Kareem, LBJ, and Russell (11 titles in 13 years including as a player coach.)

Let me make my Kareem was underrated pitch:
- NBA's all time leading scorer
- 1st all time in MVPs with 6 (most of them back when the players voted)
- 6 championship rings, two or three where he was his team's best player.
- Two finals MVPs, 14 years apart
- 19 time all star
- 10 time all nba first team, 5 time all nba second team
- 11 time all defense team
- rookie of the year

That's only his pro stuff. He was also the greatest college player of all time, if we are considering that, and that part isn't really as debatable. In his three non-freshman team college years, he only had one loss and one game where he shot under 50% from the field (the astrodome where he had the eye injury against Elvin Hayes.) Three national titles, three final four mvps, and three national players of the year awards.

I'd have a second tier of #5-10 with Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Jerry West, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant and either Doctor J or Hakeem. Probably in that order.

 

[BFo8]

The Lakers are still nowhere close to competing with GS even if they sign LBJ. What other realistic moves do they make to get there?

I’m sure Thomas will be dumped in the off-season, no way he fits with Ball there.

Supposedly they will try to sign Paul George as well.

Still not enough to seriously threaten GS in my opinion.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I’m sure Thomas will be dumped in the off-season, no way he fits with Ball there.

Supposedly they will try to sign Paul George as well.

Still not enough to seriously threaten GS in my opinion.

I agree. The smart move is keep your team young and keep pushing off a year or two like Danny Ainge has -- and wait three years or so for Golden State to be done their dynasty and for LBJ to retire/more seriously decline. Draft picks + young core + max contract flexibility to make deals. Get playoff experience now and deal with the fact you're not going to beat the Warriors.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

For those who haven't seen it. New Cavs is probably something like this:


OUT
-Isaiah Thomas
-Dwyane Wade
-Derrick Rose
-Jae Crowder
-Iman Shumpert
-Channing Frye
-2018 own 1st

IN
-Jordan Clarkson
-Larry Nance Jr
-George Hill
-Rodney Hood
-Heavily-protected future 2nd

 

[DT_PITT]

Kobe, really? Great player who is just the inferior version of Jordan, so by default I don't think he can be #1.

I think it's a four way discussion. Jordan, Kareem, LBJ, and Russell (11 titles in 13 years including as a player coach.)

Let me make my Kareem was underrated pitch:
- NBA's all time leading scorer
- 1st all time in MVPs with 6 (most of them back when the players voted)
- 6 championship rings, two or three where he was his team's best player.
- Two finals MVPs, 14 years apart
- 19 time all star
- 10 time all nba first team, 5 time all nba second team
- 11 time all defense team
- rookie of the year

That's only his pro stuff. He was also the greatest college player of all time, if we are considering that, and that part isn't really as debatable. In his three non-freshman team college years, he only had one loss and one game where he shot under 50% from the field (the astrodome where he had the eye injury against Elvin Hayes.) Three national titles, three final four mvps, and three national players of the year awards.

I'd have a second tier of #5-10 with Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Jerry West, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant and either Doctor J or Hakeem. Probably in that order.

You wouldn't even put Wilt in your top 11?

 

[DiehardPanther]

For those who haven't seen it. New Cavs is probably something like this:


OUT
-Isaiah Thomas
-Dwyane Wade
-Derrick Rose
-Jae Crowder
-Iman Shumpert
-Channing Frye
-2018 own 1st

IN
-Jordan Clarkson
-Larry Nance Jr
-George Hill
-Rodney Hood
-Heavily-protected future 2nd

Crazy! I don’t ever remember so many moves on 1 day.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I forgot Wilt
I'd say in that Bird/Magic secondary range of like 5-7. Very, very individually dominant but every book I read about the era reminds me of his flaws as a teammate continually undermining those teams.

 

[jctrack]

I forgot Wilt
I'd say in that Bird/Magic secondary range of like 5-7. Very, very individually dominant but every book I read about the era reminds me of his flaws as a teammate continually undermining those teams.

Oscar and West were really great, too.

 

[Chomp_Panther66]

Place them wherever you like but I think the best 10 players of all time is relatively simple. The order is difficult but the actual 10 isn't in my opinion.

In no order:

Magic
Lebron
MJ
KAJ
Russel
Wilt
Big O
Duncan
Shaq
Larry

 

[BFo8]

Place them wherever you like but I think the best 10 players of all time is relatively simple. The order is difficult but the actual 10 isn't in my opinion.

In no order:

Magic
Lebron
MJ
KAJ
Russel
Wilt
Big O
Duncan
Shaq
Larry

Good list here hard to argue with. Maybe I’m crazy but I’d consider Kobe over Magic.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

Oscar and West were really great, too.

No doubt. The debate in the 60's was who was better. I'd take West because he was the first(?) or at least best lock down defender guard. The Big O had somewhat better numbers but admitted he didn't feel like it was his job to play defense. Of course I never saw either live so idk but my preference is two way players who helped win conference and league titles generally in these lists.

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

Olajuwon over the Big O for me.

The guy who was amazing and would have averaged 30 ppg if he shot more or played on another team was McHale.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

McHale was underrated as a two way guy too. It's hard to be underrated if you're a white star haha. Barkley said he was the toughest match up for him to try to score against in addition to his (pre injury) absurd level of offensive efficiency. Every move he had, had a counter move attached. Sort of like Hakeem.

---

He's still raw but Embiid is the only guy now I'd throw it into to play inside out with and can go back to basket or front. Maybe Marc Gasol too but he's more of a skilled pick and pop guy than a post-post.