Well 2 things.
1) I really don't care, I read his stuff. Like I said, he collates information well, so it is a nice reference as to who we are recruiting, etc..
2) I know who he is. No biggie.
what am i to make from dokish's optimism.......
- Thread starter benchwarmer04
- Start date
Well 2 things.
1) I really don't care, I read his stuff. Like I said, he collates information well, so it is a nice reference as to who we are recruiting, etc..
2) I know who he is. No biggie.
Yinzer angst is unstoppable because of its well established always shifting bar of excellence.
Great point by SMF. I take the opinions of peak and fans on this board more than the mainstream media. Dipala writes one Pitt article a month. Werner in the gazette updates his redshirtredshirt diaries annually. I think the most recent one has a tino sunseri story, while he was at Pitt. Bare minimum coverage by these guys, just enough material to call it a beat writer. True story, a former beat writer was at a Pitt practice talking to my friend who got an invite. Former beat writer talked about how boring and painful these practices were and what a waste of time it was. My Buddy was shocked. And this was a guy that Pitt fans believe is a huge supporter. Just seems like its a chore for anyone to cover Pitt sports yet these same types are sleeping outside hospitals waiting for physician statements when Ben wrecks his bike.
Correction:
"Pitt's fanbase is not as large as gigantic diploma mill factories with alumni bases approaching 1 million but for a relatively small Power 5 school, its attendance to alumni ratio is as good as anybody's."
Fixed. You're welcome.
I wasn't speaking to you as much as others.....
1. The resident "I'm too cool to worry about anything but I have to comment on everything" guy.
2. The "smartest guy ever to spend his entire day on an Internet message board" guy.
Pretty much nailed it. I didn't realize Pittsburgh was a college town (only in Souf world). When all else fails, rely on the "fans are cheap" excuse.
Stupidest post of the year nomination... You must be a PSU fan who never went to PSU.
Culture is not created by the fan base. The "fans" are a result of a cultivation process created BY the Administration. They are selling the product. No support + bad results on the field = apathy
I assure you that before 1972 the Steelers fan base were not engaged at all. Is that the fans fault, or the fault of the Steelers organization?
The University of Pittsburgh and the city of Pittsburgh share the same core values. Call it culture if you will:
1) They want to win, but they also want to be proud on how they win.
2) They don't like phonies. They like genuine people who aren't flashy but believe in what they say and live up to their word.
3) They believe in hard work, dedication, giving your all, strive to be the best.
4) They like their football, rough, aggressive, smash mouth, with a tough attacking defense
That's the Pittsburgh way. Graham wasn't any of those things. He didn't fit the culture. So beat it wise ass.
I'm sorry but to have a Penn State fan lecture Pitt fans on its lack of culture is almost unbelievably bizarre. It's a bit like a West Virginia fan coming here and lecturing us on oral hygiene or a South Carolina fan taking us to task for our treatment of minorities.
Your school's own internal investigation concluded that your culture was so damaged and corrupt that you fired almost all of your senior leadership and brought in former senate majority leader and United States envoy to Northern Ireland and Israel to help transform your school's/program's culture into one that was more humane/transparent/law abiding. When you are bringing in a guy to broker peace and bring a normalcy to a place in the same way he once did in Belfast and Tel Aviv, that is by definition a SEVERE cultural problem.
I'm sorry but when you are dragging around that scarlet letter, you forfeit your lecturing rights for the foreseeable future.
Ohio State, Miami, Florida State and the entire SEC all cheat like hell. Everyone knows those schools and other all brazenly cheat. They also know those schools are far from alone. And yet none of them can touch Penn State on the national contempt meter. That is all related to your cultural problems.
There is no question that Pitt needs to do a better job of engaging its fans. That is due mostly to three decades of fluctuating mediocrity and futility. It is also related to the previous regime's seeming insistence on eliminating the existing traditions so they could create new ones in their own image. However, if the choice is to have 100,000 fans every home Saturday and a whole lot of broken children as a result or 35,000 fans each week and a bunch of bitchy fans but no injured children, I'll proudly choose the latter every single time. Which option would you choose, kimosabe?
Your school's own internal investigation concluded that your culture was so damaged and corrupt that you fired almost all of your senior leadership and brought in former senate majority leader and United States envoy to Northern Ireland and Israel to help transform your school's/program's culture into one that was more humane/transparent/law abiding. When you are bringing in a guy to broker peace and bring a normalcy to a place in the same way he once did in Belfast and Tel Aviv, that is by definition a SEVERE cultural problem.
I'm sorry but when you are dragging around that scarlet letter, you forfeit your lecturing rights for the foreseeable future.
Ohio State, Miami, Florida State and the entire SEC all cheat like hell. Everyone knows those schools and other all brazenly cheat. They also know those schools are far from alone. And yet none of them can touch Penn State on the national contempt meter. That is all related to your cultural problems.
There is no question that Pitt needs to do a better job of engaging its fans. That is due mostly to three decades of fluctuating mediocrity and futility. It is also related to the previous regime's seeming insistence on eliminating the existing traditions so they could create new ones in their own image. However, if the choice is to have 100,000 fans every home Saturday and a whole lot of broken children as a result or 35,000 fans each week and a bunch of bitchy fans but no injured children, I'll proudly choose the latter every single time. Which option would you choose, kimosabe?
3 in the general area, yes. (including Charlotte).
More than 3 other rabid fanbases.
i'll give you a hint: the majority of their fanbases aren't local, other than the students.
Our fans can't bother to attend living in Pittsburgh, nevermind traveling back for games.
He's not a lightning rod.
If you find him insightful, terrific for you.
I was clarifying his opinion is worth what he charges for it.
Like the rest of us, and like he did on this forum prior to his own blog.
It is a college town...and likewise, I'll point out to you, that colleges who have actual fanbases aren't all local.
Nah....not Charlotte. Doesn't count. Cleveland and Columbus is closer to Pittsburgh than Raleigh is to Charlotte. So that is 4 more Professional teams (5 if you include the MLS Crew).
Pittsburgh is just not a college sports town. At all. Not close. People just think it is amateur, minor leagues and in a weird way, follow friggin HIGH SCHOOL more than local college teams. You are from New Castle, right? People in New Castle care more about their beloved Hurricanes than Pitt or Penn State.
actually it is mythical about the high school football following as well. Sure, the Friday night games get decent crowds (although "rivalry" games like Mt. Lebo-USC or North Hills-North Allegheny still had plenty of seats available), but the WPIAL playoffs are largely just friends and family that attend; The championship at Heinz is far from a regional event as evidenced by pretty dismal attendance.
Well, I would comment on that but I am too busy attending my MENSA conference in Ibiza
More Pitt fans than 20 years ago?
Sure.
More Pitt basketball fans, absoluteLy.
Football... They don't move the needle in western Pa or new castle for casual fans, and those folks aren't traveling en masse to gaMes less than an hour away..
But I know plenty who drive to happy valley.
Perhaps in your world it is, but not in mine and most common sense folks. Try State College, Morgantown, or Blacksburg if you need examples.
Our fan base is not 100% local either. Don't know why that is relevant anyways.
Quite frankly your and my opinion counts for more than all of them. Because you and I (and to be sure, lots of other people on this board) pay way more attention to Pitt football and Pitt basketball than Cook or Starkey or Smizik or Kovachivic (and I know I spelled that wrong) or any of the rest of them do.
As far as Doke specifically goes, I have a different issue with him. To be sure, he pays more attention to Pitt than any of those others guys do on a regular basis. His problem is, to quote an old saying, that his knowledge is a mile wide and an inch deep. He knows exactly what someone else tells him, and not a whole lot more. Which is why I agree with recruits characterization of him as someone who is a good gatherer of information, and not a whole lot more.
The funny thing is that the guy presents himself as such a Pitt expert, and yet he can't even be bothered to actually attend a game. Not a football game, not a basketball game. Not whether he might have to pay for a ticket on his own, or if he is given free tickets. Last summer he even posted about how cool it was that the Pro Am basketball league was going to be played just a few miles from his house, and then in the ten nights that they played he never actually made it there even one time.
He just simply can't be bothered with actually going to any games or practices. Which means that when you see his thoughts on how someone is looking at fall camp (for instance), know that it isn't actually his opinion on what's going on, it's someone else's opinion that he is calling his own. And if he would actually own up to that and say so, then that would be fine. But he doesn't say "I have been told by people who were there that so-and-so has been looking really good at practice", he says, "so-and-so has been looking really good at practice" as if it were his own thoughts and his own opinion. It isn't. But he has to make it sound that way, because if people know that his thoughts about what's going on in practice are really someone else's thoughts then those people might as well pay attention to the actual source and not to him. And he can't have that.
While the latter wasn't really run out of town (and neither won enough to the degree you're implying) both Walt Harris and Todd Graham heard a lot of criticism for the style of football they employed.
I vividly remember fans and players celebrating the hiring of Paul Chryst since it meant the return to "real" football, which of course looked stupid after the first two games.
As for the Pitt culture debate, the biggest issue I see is that Pitt fans don't go to see Pitt. They tend to go to see the other team, and only find a select few "acceptable". Whether that's because of misplaced elitism, Penn State envy, or what, I don't know.
The one thing I won't buy is the pro town argument. There's a lot of crap franchises the pro teams play here too; I don't see fans staying away from Steeler games because they are playing the NY Jets, or Penguins games because they are playing the Phoenix Coyotes, etc.
Do u still live in NC? There are many more fans that drive to Pgh than Happy Valley. There are a variety of fans in most areas of WPa. I can tell you than the excitement level for Pitt football has risen considerably with the Narduzzi hire
That almost always happens with a new coach (well, at least when the old coach wasn't seen as very good).
Frankly, I remember this board and the fanbase as a whole being far more excited when Dave Wannstedt was hired.
With Narduzzi, I think most of the excitement is coming from:
1. He comes off as more charismatic than his predecessor
2. His staff appears to be much better than his predecessor
3. He's not a Pederson hire.
Frankly, I remember this board and the fanbase as a whole being far more excited when Dave Wannstedt was hired.
With Narduzzi, I think most of the excitement is coming from:
1. He comes off as more charismatic than his predecessor
2. His staff appears to be much better than his predecessor
3. He's not a Pederson hire.
No,
But I've been up to plenty of Pitt games through the years.. And I rarely can even give away my tickets to friends and family in new castle...
And plenty of good seats still available.
Of course he's a "serious hack". He's an unpaid Pitt BLOGGER. Unlike the local PSU media hacks who are paid to report NEWS in an unbiased and unfiltered manner and fail to do so.
Really? It sure has reflected in all of those HS kids flocking to the Pitt program over Penn State.
THIS.....is hard to argue. Pitt season tix are so low I even cherry pick games from the season tickets list and can't give away tickets unused as freebies.
If you're referring to guys like Jones, I completely agree with you. I was addressing earlier posts where people were gushing about Dokish.
Pittsburghers aren't "pro fans" vs college fans, or even exclusively "Steeler" fans. They are frontrunner fans. They back "winners ". This makes them pretty much like most sports fans.
Giving blame where due, Pitt's incompetent admins have largely themselves to blame for futility on the field and court. But it goes beyond that.
One difference is that the pro leagues are set up to create cycles of winning so that savvy organizations that are well run can pretty much assure they'll stay on or near the top, since badly run orgs (Bengals, Browns) F things up. The Steelers and Penguins have such "good" organizations. Hence they don't stay down long enough (or at all) to allow yinzers to shift their allegiances.
But at least they do win, a good deal anyway. Even though Penn State football really has grossly underachieved given their huge funding advantages, they are championed in Pittsburgh media as if they are 12-0 every year. Like last year ... PSU's 6-6 was glorified while Pitt's was scorned. PSU loses to Akron and Toledo in recent years ... never mentioned again (unless blaming the NCAA). Pitt does, it's never forgotten or forgiven (not saying it should be, but it's even less forgivable that PSU should do it).
And nearly everyday in the off season they've gotten some type of adoring puff piece in local propaganda rags. Pitt gets coverage only if something bad occurs (Boyd etc).
And now, throw in the jackass mayor promoting the boy-bangers that contribute zero to his city economy (vs. the city's only remaining viable substantial employer).
Stupid yinzers see all that and can't ward off the psychological impact, so feel like they are still backing "winners" there too.
I think PSU's 6-6 was different than Pitt's 6-6 because of the sanctions and Franklin. It was a novelty that will soon wear off. Likely starting 2016, there will be no excuses and no shiny new coach in State College, so 6-6 would be crushed by the media. Conversely, now that Pitt has a new coach, they'll have a year or two of optimistic press should they overachieve.
We were referring to New Castle. I was contesting the assertion that there are fans flocking to Happy Valley from NC. The intention was that people in NC are excited about Narduzzi. They are talking Pitt in bars, restaurants and the like. The post had nothing to do with recruits.
Except the fact that PSU was favored in 10 of the 12 games they played. As I've said, when the ball was kicked off, PSU had better players than their opponents in all but 2 games, yet only won 6. Terrible coaching by Franklin but maybe he will improve this season.
The PG sure agrees with you though with their headline last season saying Penn State "earns" bowl bid. The team went 6-6, lost 4 games they were favored to win, yet they "earned" a bowl invitation that almost every college team gets anyway. I'll never forget that.
Now let me flip the script...
I know plenty of people who will go to PSU games when given a chance...despite costing more and being a substantially longer trip from western PA.
And it's not because we're a pro-sports town.
