Probably my first favorite panther. Pittsburgh kid, tough as hell runner. Actually is pretty similar to Conner. I remember he was in camp with the steelers one year late in his career, kinda bummed he didn't make the team.
What were Pitt's 3 best bowl wins and the 3 worst bowl losses?
- Thread starter cbpitt2
- Start date
what part aren't you comprehending? A loss in the Sun bowl cost us a top 25 ranking and the first 10 win season in 25 years. So your statement that all games outside the bowl are about the same is pretty much wrong.
Took a beating behind terrible lines in San Francisco. Unfortunately he was used up by the time he got back to Pittsburgh.
The 1983 Cotton Bowl was a real downer to watch, but that SMU team was quite good. Almost illegally so, you might say.
I think the bowl loss that I enjoyed the most was the '84 Fiesta Bowl with TOSU. Really exciting battle, even if they couldn't hold the lead.
The '77 Gator Bowl is a great "what might have been" game. If only Cavanaugh had been healthy the whole year.
As someone who sat through all of that U of Houston disaster, I like to think of that day as more on Paul Chryst than anything else, and focus on enjoyable memories of hanging out with Trey Anderson's high school friends.
I think the bowl loss that I enjoyed the most was the '84 Fiesta Bowl with TOSU. Really exciting battle, even if they couldn't hold the lead.
The '77 Gator Bowl is a great "what might have been" game. If only Cavanaugh had been healthy the whole year.
As someone who sat through all of that U of Houston disaster, I like to think of that day as more on Paul Chryst than anything else, and focus on enjoyable memories of hanging out with Trey Anderson's high school friends.
To me, every game is the same, I watch every game with the same intensity. Once the game kicks off, it doesn't matter to me if we're 11-0 looking for 12-0 or 0-11 looing for win #1, if we blow either of those games in the last 3 minutes, I still feel bad about it. Everyone else is looking for adding meaning and implications in each game, to me it's just a stand alone event for that day to go 1-0 or 0-1.
Agree. I want to win every game. Once we know we're not going to the playoffs, I want to win the pinstripe bowl to get to 9 wins. You get absolutely nothing for winning that bowl game in itself. Would not in a million years trade a bowl win for a psu or Clemson loss.
Really, to be able to include the bowls from 75-82 diminishes the debate. Those were from our best era so we had our best teams and bowls that were more meaningful. Although the bowls from 82 onward meant various degrees of nothing in relevance, the debate of the best win becomes more interesting.
I would vote for the Bluebonnet Bowl and Tangerine Bowl wins, with an asterisk for the bowl (insight?) Where Fitz made that leaping TD catch.
Nobody else will agree but the first Compass bowl, the win over KY, holds a fondness. I absolutely expected that game to be a complete disaster after what had gone down with the coaches. But the team came to play and dominated. Even Tino played well. Restored a smidgen of dignity, though fleeting.
Most all the losses were equally wretched even if various extremes. Any game we lost as a favorite or after blowing a big lead etc, either way is a humiliation. Conversely I wasn't that fazed by the Ole Miss loss, though we weren't remotely competitive. At least Miss is an SEC program that spends like a program should. Not enough to be great in the SEC, yet such a program SHOULD clean a Pitt's clock 9 out 10 times (plus as usual we had coaching flux, give or take an "l").
The Houston and Navy losses, unforgivable.
Northwestern, frustrating because it was nearly totally self inflicted. NW wasn't garbage, but nearly so. Pitt O even near the top of its game, not totally screwing itself, would have had at least a 24 point lead by the time Peterman went down. I'll concede no lead is ever safe enough for us, but still.
I tend to look at the infamous Sun Bowl less nauseating than most, as wind conditions were indeed brutal in that game (damming the decision even more so try to pass as much as we did, but still), and the defense at least performed well.
Taken overall, bowl performance has echoed the program's overall half-ass-ity. Increasingly dread them instead of anticipate them. Obviously not the emotion a program should be aiming to evoke with its fans...
Why didn't the Wann at least try Greg Cross in that game? His treatment of Cross that season made no sense.
No, it's not like saying that at all - not even close.
If the game does not matter to anyone in the lead up, or during most of it – AND IT CLEARLY DIDN'T – it's beyond disingenuous to pretend that you were somehow devastated after it all fell apart in the final three minutes.
Nobody cared.
Hell, half the coaching staff didn't even bother to show up and like 150 fans attended the game.
Let's play hypothetical: let's say that next year. Pitt stumbles to a 6-6 record and plays Miami of Ohio in the Motor City Bowl.
The game, as you would imagine is a complete clusterph#%k. However, as the clock strikes zero, Pitt's Max Browne completes a 53-yard Hail Mary to Jester Weah to win the game.
Pitt beats Miami of Ohio, 10-7! Woohoo!
Let's Go Pitt!
Let's Go Pitt!
Let's Go Pitt!
Would that become one of the greatest wins in our bowl history?
Why or why not?
We all know the answer to that question. It wouldn't mean anything because the game doesn't mean anything.
Well, how is that any different than the loss to Houston in the Military Bowl a few years back?
You can't have it both ways.
Last edited:
That's not even a question, since it's hypothetical and you can't do it if you wanted to. All I'm saying is that each game is each game and I watch each one with out trying to figure out if it means more than another one.
Greatest "wins"? No, but on an entertainment value, maybe one of the greatest "games" or greatest "finishes". Part of it depends what do you mean by greatest wins? Let's say Pitt has a crazy shootout with Western Kentucky in the Bahamas Bowl, coming back from 56-28 down in the 4th quarter to win 59-56 on a 63 yard FG as time expires to finish 7-6, ME? I might consider it one of the best Pitt games ever!
The most exciting Steelers game I ever watched, in my opinion, was the 37-36 win over GB where Big Ben hit Mike Wallace on the last play of the game as time expired. and threw for 503 yards. I can't think of another game that was as awesome to watch as that one, for pure entertainment. and that game snapped a 6 game losing streak on the way to a 9-7 season, but I'll always rank it as one of the greatest Steelers games ever.
I cared about that Armed Forces Bowl, I was really pissed the way it ended! Even more than Northwestern, because of the way they lost. I didn't care about the coaches leaving or the 6-7 record, I was just watching THAT ONE GAME THAT DAY and I consider it one of the worst losses Pitt ever had.
Well, then the national championship win over Georgia during the 1977 Sugar Bowl should not be on that list. That game was a blowout. That wasn't a good game at all by that standard.
Great wins and great losses have to have stakes to them for them to matter. If there are no stakes, they are irrelevant.
I'm not going to point to some dramatic preseason win by the Steelers as one of that team's great games of all-time, regardless of how it played out.
Why? Because there were no stakes involved, that's why.
I just don't think you can look at a junk bowl game as an important game in the program's history. I think people who do that are either being dishonest or they are emotionally unstable.
The loss to Houston was a ridiculous way to lose any football game. However, the game meant nothing – therefore the loss meant nothing.
Last edited:
In my opinion, it was one of the most horrible game in Pitt History did serious damage to Coach Wannstedt's Reputation, Confidence, and Destiny in being a Head Coach. It was clear from the very start of that Game and throughout the entire Game, Pitt QB was not prepared to play that day, and only Dave Wannstedt lacked the ability to see it?
Coach Dave had an arrogance about himself and to me he soured me for a longtime on his Coaching in that game. What he said afterwards was even worst, until he admitted he waited too long to replace QB Stull that let his Teammates, Coaches, and Pitt Fans down that day by not being ready. But the real sin was Wannstedt not seeing it and keeping Stull in, my 8 year old nephew at that time ask why is Stull still playing and that was at half-time.
It was Pitt, first bowl appearance since the 2004 season and the first under coach Dave Wanndstedt, from a pretty good season in leading the Big East in scoring that season, averaging close to 30 points back when and then.
But there was no sign of offense this time, not even with standout tailback McCoy held to 85 yards rushing. Quarterback Bill Stull was terrible the entire game, going 7-for-24 for 52 yards with one interception.
Shady was stopped by Oregon State because no one had respect for Stull's Execution that entire day. Even when Pitt finally got a spark early in the fourth quarter when T.J. Porter's big punt return around OSU's 40, Stull three plays later wasted that play has stripped of the ball and fumble that opportunity away as well, and Wannstedt still could not see and replace Stull until last 5 minutes.
QB Stull's terrible play was only exceeded by Coach Wannstedt's horrible coaching judgment that entire day. It was the lowest-scoring Sun Bowl since a scoreless tie in 1940 between Catholic and Arizona State.
To this very day, although I like Dave Wannstedt and really enjoy him on FOX Sports, his quotes after that game and his talking today, remind me how lame his judgment was on Stull. Stull admitted how bad he was and let his teammates down, but it was Wannstedt all along that refused to admit his QB was not ready, and sheepishly finally said "Maybe He Should Have Replaced Stull Earlier?" It is a stain on Wannstedt's Coaching judgement and later came back to haunt him showing his arrogance hurt his Alma Mater not just that day, but in the next few years too.
The only thing worst in Pitt Sports History Judgement was Steve Pederson Firing Wannstedt and how he did it and had no one ready to replace him, and then went through more Embarrassments. Nordenberg showed even worst judgment keeping Pederson on and later gave him an extension?
It was Pitt Football Perfect Storm of those 3 years of by those 3 People and 3 Misjudgements that made Pitt being a Laughing Stock in CFB. Later was even worst to ask for support and more money, was a bigger joke by those folks that expected support by such poor judgments?
Any other University should have fired all 3 of them from those horrible judgements from 2008, 2010 and 2012? Pederson later fired Wannstedt, and Gallagher later fired Pederson but only after Nordenberg gave a Pitt $5 Million Extension Buyout? This stain Nordenberg otherwise stellar tenure.
At least, Nordenberg & Wannstedt are still great people in my view and deserve respect and gratitude for doing more right than wrong.
Yet, not on that Sun Bowl Day for Dave, and later on Nordenberg awarding Pederson an Extension 6 months before he was retiring. Why give money to Pitt to waste it away on a failed Athletic Director at 2 Programs whose own Arrogance exceeded Wannstedt that Sun Bowl Day later and a number of times upon his return to Pitt he left at the worst time?
Nordenberg's tenure was terrific and far more positive what he did at Pitt except for that Pederson return, retention and extension that was not deserved.
Wannstedt came back and used his excellent reputation, knowledge and relationships nationally to rebuild Pitt Football Athletic among High School Coaches & gather support from contributors.
Even as Pederson was undermining, misspending Pitt money on his Private Consultants, and turning off Pitt Alumni and Fans until fired by Gallagher and announced it 7PM at a Pitt BB Game to loud cheers.......Nordenberg was just gone a few months and that revealed how bad his judgement was a few months earlier by giving Pederson's millions of Pitt Money.
Wannstedt not seeing Stull was not ready that day all game long, combine with later Pederson not being ready to replace Wannstedt years later, combine with Nordenberg keeping hated judgments of Pederson around and giving a 5 year extension to reward Steve and burden Pitt was just bad judgments all around.
I am so glad all 3 are gone today and Pitt Athletics, Football, and University has a far better attitude change today.
SUN BOWL LINK:
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...h-dismal-Sun-Bowl-outing/stories/200901010143
Last edited:
The game meant little, but was a an epic and historically embarrassing way to lose a football game. One of the worst losses, by way of major collapse, in the history of college football. Blowing a 25 point 4th quarter lead was actually the largest collapse in bowl history. Yes, fairly meaningless to the scheme of the program, but epically disgusting in its record setting shamefulness.
The criteria was open ended. As far as "worst bowls" that could mean worst performances or worst blown opportunities or anything in between. Weighing one against the other is subjective. When you set a 100 year record for choke jobs, it has to be considered, just like the anemic Sun Bowl performance has to be considered. The real problem is that there is no shortage of options and good arguments for other games to add to the worst-of list.
I've sat through 13 of the last 15 bowl games, and to me, the Armed Forces Bowl was absolutely the worst.
What I'm saying is if nobody remembers the game, it is not that shameful.
It didn't mean anything to anyone leading up to the game or while they were winning. Then, suddenly it meant deep shame because they lost?
No, it doesn't work that way. That is not an intellectually consistent or honest point of view.
Yes, it was a bad way to lose a football game by a program that has found many creative ways to lose games over the years.
However, what was really lost? Nothing.
That's not one of the worst losses in Pitt's history, it's just not. It literally cost us nothing.
Anyone who has been around the program for any length of time can easily point to a bunch of losses that were WAAAAAAAY worse than that one, regardless of the circumstances which led to our demise on that particular Tuesday afternoon at 2 PM.
Last edited:
Let me draw a parallel: if by this July the Pirates are 35 games out of first place behind the Cubs and they blow a 9-2 ninth-inning lead against the Brewers, is that a shameful and historic loss?
It would certainly be one of the biggest blown leads in their history but there would be 9000 people there and no one would care.
It would become a historical footnote, nothing more – just like that Pitt/Houston game.
It would certainly be one of the biggest blown leads in their history but there would be 9000 people there and no one would care.
It would become a historical footnote, nothing more – just like that Pitt/Houston game.
In your opinion, that is fine. I'll remember the horror of the Armed Forces Bowl for the rest of my life. But then, I was there, sitting in the cold rain immediately behind the team bench watching that nightmare up close.
You'll remember the "horror" of the Armed Forces bowl for the rest of your life?
I don't even know what to say to that?
Don't get me wrong guys, I was heartbroken too.
As the clock was ticking down, before the heartbreaking disaster that would haunt all of us for the rest of our natural lives, I could just taste that long-awaited Armed Forces Bowl championship.
I could practically feel the trophy in my hands – we were that close!
I'll even admit that I allowed my mind to fantasize a little bit and was thinking about how great the Armed Forces Bowl banner ceremony the following fall was going to be and what I was going to wear to commemorate it.
I couldn't wait to get my commemorative Armed Forces Bowl Champions T-shirt to strut around town and I had already pre-ordered the collectible Sports Illustrated cover showing our guys successfully fielding an onside kick.
Alas, it was not to be so I have slowly picked up the pieces of my shattered existence and tried to trudge on every day since. It certainly hasn't been easy but my faith in God has helped me get through this difficult time.
As the clock was ticking down, before the heartbreaking disaster that would haunt all of us for the rest of our natural lives, I could just taste that long-awaited Armed Forces Bowl championship.
I could practically feel the trophy in my hands – we were that close!
I'll even admit that I allowed my mind to fantasize a little bit and was thinking about how great the Armed Forces Bowl banner ceremony the following fall was going to be and what I was going to wear to commemorate it.
I couldn't wait to get my commemorative Armed Forces Bowl Champions T-shirt to strut around town and I had already pre-ordered the collectible Sports Illustrated cover showing our guys successfully fielding an onside kick.
Alas, it was not to be so I have slowly picked up the pieces of my shattered existence and tried to trudge on every day since. It certainly hasn't been easy but my faith in God has helped me get through this difficult time.
I'm not trying to hijack your opinions. You're making your case exceptionally well. I would like for you to continue to express them as eloquently as you have so far.
I'm saying that in my opinion, the handwringing over our loss in the 2014 Armed Forces bowl is arguably the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my life as a fan of the Pitt Panthers.
Nobody cared about the game at all… Until we lost. Then, it took on massive importance and became one of the all-time worst losses in the program's history and all this other bullshitt.
It's not honest or emotionally stable.
You think I was rocking back and forth in the stands after that game? Dude, your opinion is different than mine, not superior, and your jackass comments don't change my opinion on it one iota.
Yeah, that's rich. Here we have a kook who is saying that he will have to find a way to live with the "horror" of the Armed Forces Bowl loss for the rest of his life calling me a jackass.
That is a very interesting juxtaposition.
Why don't you explain it to me again, but louder this time. I can't quite follow your logic about why that game wasn't meaningful. Don't forget to throw a couple more insults about how my opinion on personally witnessing the worst collapse in bowl history isn't valid.
Last edited:
I'd like to say that because the game remained so close throughout he wouldn't "risk" such a "radical" thing, but hell, if we were losing by 52 that still wouldn't have occurred to him.
I recall GC scoring that TD that year and my buddy (a proud anti-Wanny, pro-Wlat guy) saying, that very moment he scored, that Wanny likely was disgusted by the success of that play because muckraking fans would *gasp* expect more of it and he had no intent in hell of doing that. At the time I dismissed him as being even more cynical and bitter than me (tall order), but damn if it didn't come to pass (or run for that matter) nearly ever again, even in the case of often-sad QB play.
Just one of many head shaking blown opportunities...way down on a very long list but certainly one.
The AFB loss didn't prevent the cure for cancer or lose us WW2 (the big one) or even a disaster in the home (though I will say I did throw my garbage can across my yard in disgust after retrieving it from the curb following the Bucs collapse in the 92 playoff game...put a little dent in the lid).
But in the totally silly, shallow context of sports fandom, it's absolutely appropriate to be horrified by that loss.
Most can make the distinction, me thinks.
This is the understood agreement sports fans have. In exchange for the euphoria of winning, you agree to be at least a little miserable if you lose. Otherwise it means a little less for the winning fan.
Frankly, it's at least as much fun when you win that you know your rivals' fans are disgusted by it.
This is precisely why PSU fans pretend they "don't care" about Pitt by the way. Of course, it is lie (imagine that, they are deceitful). But in sports, purported lack of emotion is supposed to be even a bigger insult than hate.
If anyone doesn't get that, they really shouldn't be following sports.
But in the totally silly, shallow context of sports fandom, it's absolutely appropriate to be horrified by that loss.
Most can make the distinction, me thinks.
This is the understood agreement sports fans have. In exchange for the euphoria of winning, you agree to be at least a little miserable if you lose. Otherwise it means a little less for the winning fan.
Frankly, it's at least as much fun when you win that you know your rivals' fans are disgusted by it.
This is precisely why PSU fans pretend they "don't care" about Pitt by the way. Of course, it is lie (imagine that, they are deceitful). But in sports, purported lack of emotion is supposed to be even a bigger insult than hate.
If anyone doesn't get that, they really shouldn't be following sports.
Exactly, it was a great win as far as relevance, but not a "great show" that I'd like to rewatch based on the entertainment value. MY personal favorite Pitt game that I've rewatched several time is the 2004 Pitt/ND "I love this fkn team" game. Now that was a hell of a spectacle.
You're thinking about appearances to others, as to whether the program should feel ashamed because all the Nitters and Hoopies saw it and are laughing at us. Well no, I'm not looking at it that way, I don't care if the stadium was empty and I was the only one that saw it on TV and both teams entered the game 0-12, it's still the worse Pitt bowl game I ever saw, an epic collapse for all time.
It's not a parallel. It was a post season game, no matter how "meaningless" and baseball teams play 162 games per year and sometimes even the World Series Champs blows a 9-2 lead in the 9th in July.
Yes, it's nothing more than a historical footnote for the entire college football world, but to me it's the worst Pitt Bowl loss ever, I'm judging it by MY OPINION, not on whether Herbstreit, Corso and the fans of college football ever heard about it.
It was an exhibition game. It happened when the regular season was over and that's the only context in which it could be called "the postseason."
However, that would be like calling the Pro Bowl a postseason game. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are people out there who are irate when the NFC scores a late touchdown to defeat the AFC in a Pro Bowl game. However, I think those people are Looney Tunes.
There were no stakes. What I'm saying is if nobody cared if we won, they can't feign indignance because we lost, no matter how it happened. That's neither honest or fair.
I was thinking about it as Syracuse was forging ahead toward 61 points, thank God we got to 76! I was thinking about it as UNC made up the 14 point lead in 3 minutes and beat us just this season. How can you forget that? It's not "horror", but it is unforgettable.
It's not about the trophy, or the t shirt or any of that, IT'S ABOUT THAT ONE GAME, if we lost to Wake Forrest like that in the middle of October some year, I'd never forget it either it would be etched in my memory forever as a "WORST GAME". Worst "loss" has nothing to do with what you would have gotten if you had won IMO.
It's not "handwringing", it's not crying about losing, it's not even being upset that they let that happen, it's just stating a FACT that it was one of the worst losses in Pitt history, and it doesn't matter what the "Stakes" where in that game. That's what you don't get! You think the game has to mean something in order to be a memorably bad game, it's doesn't.
He's not saying that, he's saying it was an epic bad loss, we've all gotten over it, but we still remember it.
And the fact the UNC loss aggravated you helped make it at least a little more satisfying for the UNC fans. We aren't particularly big rivals, but imagine they enjoy the continuation of domination over us if no actual hatred.
That's the implicit agreement among sports fans. I agree to be bothered by a loss to you, in exchange of gloating rights (or even a quiet smugness) for winning.
I recall Houston fans (and Northwestern fans this year) enjoying their wins over us a little more because they perceived our fans thought we were "too good" for them or those bowls. I think that Pitt arrogance was very very minor (I certainly didn't feel that way, especially the Houston bowl, given the junk season we had that year). But they used the narrative to manufacture a reason to gain more satisfaction from the win...because normally why would you get much of a jolly from beating a sad sack Pitt program?
Which is great. I'd do the same. I sure wish I'll get a chance to again after a bowl, someday...
That's the implicit agreement among sports fans. I agree to be bothered by a loss to you, in exchange of gloating rights (or even a quiet smugness) for winning.
I recall Houston fans (and Northwestern fans this year) enjoying their wins over us a little more because they perceived our fans thought we were "too good" for them or those bowls. I think that Pitt arrogance was very very minor (I certainly didn't feel that way, especially the Houston bowl, given the junk season we had that year). But they used the narrative to manufacture a reason to gain more satisfaction from the win...because normally why would you get much of a jolly from beating a sad sack Pitt program?
Which is great. I'd do the same. I sure wish I'll get a chance to again after a bowl, someday...
Who's being indignant, I'm just simply saying it was a very bad loss! And I did care if we won, when I turn on the TV to watch a Pitt game or show up at the stadium to watch one, it doesn't matter what the stakes are, I care if we win or lose, I don't only care if their a championship or ranking on the line I care every time.
Last edited:
I don't know, some of you have different "criteria" but I've seen every Pitt bowl game since the '70s, and when asked what was the worst Pitt bowl loss ever, my mind went straight to the AF Bowl ,, had nothing to do with the "meaningfulness" of the game, and everything to do with the experience of watching those 60 minutes of football and the final outcome.
I've only been around this board a short time but peculiarly there are many questionable "fans" who seem to spend a lot of time on a Pitt sports board competing to show who has the LEAST interest in Pitt sports. Baffling.
Of course that was hideous loss and nobody can remotely question it. Just like the Tangerine Bowl of (whatever year) meant zip in importance to the world, or even to college football that year, and certainly did nothing to improve our teams fortunes...but I still have the image in my head to this day of Tyree Young rumbling with a fumble for a clinching td, and the high fives all around with my friends. Is it the same euphoria as the birth of my kid? No, not by a trillionth, but it's there.
