OSU wants coach to recruit better.
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...d-mike-holder-wants-mike-gundy-recruit-better
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...d-mike-holder-wants-mike-gundy-recruit-better
Where have I heard this before.
- Thread starter PittCity
- Start date
lol.
Henceforth thy name of Barnes shall be stricken from thy record.
Henceforth thy name of Barnes shall be stricken from thy record.
Don't you mean "Stricken from all pylons and obelisks"????lol.
Henceforth thy name of Barnes shall be stricken from thy record.
They don't really have to play anybody that out recruits them. That's kind of the AD's point. "It's great you win a lot of games against all these teams that recruit at your level. But we can't elevate until we start beating these other teams every now and then." And it's obvious who that other team is...the team that does out recruit them.
I wonder what their recruiting ranking would be if they weren't winning? I guarantee it would be lower than it is today...
This is true. Texas and Oklahoma are the only two Big 12 schools that recruit well (other than Baylor under Briles for a few years) and Texas has been a disaster recently, so they don't play up to their ability. At the same time, have to give credit to Gundy for beating the teams he should. If Ok State were to replace him they probably get a guy who recruits the same but can't coach like Gundy.
Gundy. When people bring up schools like OKST, TCU, or Wisky, they usually misunderstand what these programs are doing. But even when put into its proper context, what they are doing is incredibly impressive.
They should bring in a coach who can recruit like a made man, and then in 4 years Oklahoma State will be wondering why they are 6-6.
Because they only have to play 2 games against teams with better talent. One of those programs has been in disarray for the last 6+ years. They lose almost every time to the other.
Recruiting should be judged AFTER the on field performance, not before it. that's the whole problem here. Someone flip flopped it years ago and everyone went with it. Good recruiting is proven AFTER the game, not before it.
If you are winning 10 games in the P5, you've recruited very well, no matter what rivals or scouts said in June about your class..
If you are winning 10 games in the P5, you've recruited very well, no matter what rivals or scouts said in June about your class..
Except then "good" recruiting is all relative because of your competition. Having a national recruiting ranking of 30 in the B12 means you should be the 3rd or 4th most talented team. In the SEC? You may be the least talented team.
But Rivals and Scout doesn't really talk bad about their class in June. Rivals and Scout simply says, "Here is your class." The rest of the college football world then projects what teams you can be expected to beat on any kind of consistent basis, based on those ratings. And Rivals and Scout usually nails it. It's up to each fanbase and AD to decide whether that's acceptable.
That's the entire problem the AD has. At some point he'd like to beat OU more than twice every 15 years. But their recruiting classes will never allow that. And there isn't anything else they can do about it outside of recruiting. They already have one of the best CEO and game day coaches in college football. They are tapped out in every area except one. Maybe it's impossible for them to recruit any better. But their AD doesn't think so.
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You are 100% correct. Your win-loss record is the only thing that matters.
Oklahoma State played 2 games against teams that have recruited better, and 5 games against teams didn't recruit as well. That leaves 5 games against teams that recruit at about the same level. You would expect Oklahoma State to win 7.5 games. They won 10. Why?
Why would you expect 7.5?
You'd expect 5 wins, 2 losses, and then 5 games where you don't know, better looking at the actual coaching quality.
classes are ranked now. rivals and scout has classes ranked, Ok State is winning 10 games a year with classes that are ranked in the mid 30s. Gundy is a good coach but he isn't God. these rankings are projections based on how a kid looks at 15 and 16.
I don't know what that means? Yes, they rank classes, and rank them now. But they aren't saying you shouldn't win 10 games a year with a mid 30's class. That seems to be something you are saying.
What certain analytic types do, is look at class rankings, and compare it with competition. And that determines how many games a team "should" win. Bring in the 35th ranked class in the Mountain West? You should basically run the table. Bring in the 35th ranked class in the SEC? You'r going to need some help.
But the Rivals rankings are ambivalent of any of this, and do not pretend to make such an analysis.
im saying that Gundy is getting criticized for perceived recruiting weaknesses despite actual proof (record) otherwise. Recruiting rankings are for fans who want entertained during the off season, that's it.
stars, rankings, ratings, it is all created to sell magazines and now internet subscriptions. that's it. An AD using this as some sort of metric over wins and losses is absolutely mind blowing.
But that's not what the AD is doing.
He is the AD at Oklahoma State. Oklahoma State is judged by Oklahoma. Just as Auburn is Alabama. Michigan is Ohio State. UF is FSU. Etc., etc., etc.
You can't have your panties pulled down by your rival every year and then say, "Look, I beat all the 4 to 6 loss teams. So my recruiting is fine." That's not how it works at any school in the country except maybe Vanderbilt, where they would probably take losing to Tenn. if it meant beating all the mesh.
His AD's problem is how infrequently his school is able to beat their rival. And he's pointing to the reason for it.
Oklahoma has been beating Ok state consistently dating back to the time we rode around on horseback. they lead this series 87-18. you'd be hard pressed to find another rivalry in D1 football more lopsided..
That's fine. But Oklahoma State now considers themselves a major college football team. The type of school that pays their coach 5+ million dollars a year.
Once again, there is no program in America that says, "our rival can absolutely dominate this series. Just beat the West Virginias and Iowa States of the world." It doesn't exist. It's not going to exist at Oklahoma State in 2018. Wayyyyyyy too much money being spent on college football today.
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I guess if you thought all things were equal. But I'm still not sure why you would assume 2.5 based on what you know about the Big XII?
Gundy is a great coach. A lot of other coaches in the Big XII aren't as good.
Gundy takes the talent he recruits as far as it can go, beating everybody you would project him to beat based on rankings, and winning a lot against those you would be ambivalent towards based on rankings. And then losing when he comes up against OU, which you would project based on rankings.
I'm not sure where the mystery is in that for you?
Oklahoma papers are siding with the AD
https://newsok.com/article/5598078/mike-holder-is-right-mike-gundy-needs-to-recruit-better
https://newsok.com/article/5598078/mike-holder-is-right-mike-gundy-needs-to-recruit-better
So does that mean we should factor in all the Pro-PSU members of the media and their opinion as well when it comes to Pitt?
Based on recruiting at Oklahoma State, I would expect an average coach to win 7.5 games last season. The 5 where OSU recruited better and half of the teams with comparable recruiting. Gundy won 10, which is pretty damn good.
If you want to argue that he needs to recruit better to challenge the Sooner, then I would agree, as Oklahoma recruits FAR better. About 1/2 of a star better on average, which is a huge gap for a team to overcome. Gundy has proven to be an excellent coach, but has not used that success to gain higher level of recruits. That's why the AD is concerned.
Preach bro! You are what your record says you are... In this case, not a bad recruiter.
Except OU recruits much better and wins.
You refuse to understand the barometer is direct competition, not national. It holds almost all the time. Then coaching makes the difference in the middle, but those coaches almost never beat teams, which are more talented. The AD wants to beat OU and knows they aren't going to unless they close the talent gap.
Well, if all HCPN can do is replicate Gundy, our ceiling is 9-3 with lull seasons of 6 or 7 wins, because our schedule is much tougher.
Also, if Herman gets things together at UT, Ok State will likely take another step down.
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