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Where have I heard this before.

No, I’m fine with them expressing their opinion. However, it doesn’t add up. Bottom line, they are putting projections ahead of actual results and that simply does not work, no matter how many times you try to manipulate or distort the conversation.

This feels to me like Oklahoma State is going to blow it and run off the very best coach they have ever had and in five years everyone’s going to look back and say what were they thinking?

And it will be everyone’s fault except the people who actually created that absurd boondoggle.

I still have no idea what you are talking about. I know I keep saying that, but it remains true.
Who is putting projections ahead of results? How is anybody doing that?

There are three issues really:

1. Can OSU recruit better? It's basically impossible to look at their class and say they can't. I don't think even the most glass completely full posters on this board could defend that class if it was our class. That class has nothing to do with them being OSU or in Stillwater or their record against OU.

2. Does it matter? Even if they could recruit better, and maybe it translates to a few more upsets over teams that recruit better than them. In the end, they still win 9 to 10 games a year. So should they just shut up and be happy?

3. If you answer yes to the first one, and no to the second, does that mean you are disrespecting Gundy or undervaluing Gundy?
 
In addition to managing the coaches, he also has to do whatever he can to manage the boosters. We all know that you need generous boosters to fund a program, but boosters are also the number one reason why programs fall apart. Their passion and influence outweigh their acumen and that has led to numerous disasters through the years.

So again, what’s the remedy at Oklahoma State? What should they do? I think I know exactly what they should not do, but I’d like to hear your answer.

This is a silly question. Like asking, "Is there something wrong with a team's offense? Could they do better?" and then when the person says, "Yes, they could probably do better based on these numbers," asking them to create a playbook and submit it.
Nobody on this forum knows how to recruit. We aren't college football recruiters. How you literally bring in better talent on the micro level, isn't something anybody on this form can answer.
But I don't think you need to be able to actually know how to solve an issue on a micro or macro level, to be able to recognize that there is perhaps an issue.
Could OSU's recruiting be better? Absolutely. Should Gundy take actions to make it better? I'm not sure why a coach would ever not want to do what he can to improve. How can Gundy improve his recruiting? That's probably not something any Pitt fan or anybody east of the Mississippi could answer. Should the AD force Gundy to improve his recruiting even if it could be improved? Probably not.
 
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You defame Fred.
 
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This is a silly question. Like asking, "Is there something wrong with a team's offense? Could they do better?" and then when the person says, "Yes, they could probably do better based on these numbers," asking them to create a playbook and submit it.
Nobody on this forum knows how to recruit. We aren't college football recruiters. How you literally bring in better talent on the micro level, isn't something anybody on this form can answer.
But I don't think you need to be able to actually know how to solve an issue on a micro or macro level, to be able to recognize that there is perhaps an issue.
Could OSU's recruiting be better? Absolutely. Should Gundy take actions to make it better? I'm not sure why a coach would ever not want to do what he can to improve. How can Gundy improve his recruiting? That's probably not something any Pitt fan or anybody east of the Mississippi could answer. Should the AD force Gundy to improve his recruiting even if it could be improved? Probably not.

Right, it is an exceedingly silly debate and has been from the very start. That’s been my point from the beginning of this discussion.

The Oklahoma State athletic director did something very stupid and it’s going to hurt that program. He probably did it for self-preservation reasons, but it was still an incredibly dumb idea to publicly question the talents of both his coach and his current players.

For some reason, some on here felt the need to defend that imbecile. That’s fine with me, people defend craziness all the time on here. However, that doesn’t make his actions any less moronic or his points any more salient.

I am sure that Mike Gundy would like to get the best possible players at every position on the field and that he works really, really hard at doing just that every single day. However, at the end of the day, you have to play with the cards you’re dealt and Stillwater, Oklahoma is simply not the same as Norman, Oklahoma and it is certainly not the same as Austin, Texas. That’s been true for the past 100 years and it will be true for the next 100 years too.

The shame of it all is that all of this is because they are not beating Oklahoma with even a modicum of consistency. Well, who is consistently beating Oklahoma? Nobody, that’s who. That’s what makes this entire discussion so absurd.

By publicly shitting on his head football coach and his current players, who happen to be in the midst of probably the greatest run of success in the history of OSU Cowboys football, all the athletic director really accomplished was weakening his relationship with the most successful coach in the program’s long history and the program itself for his own political gain.

That’s completely insane, IMHO. Again though, others are free to view it through whichever lens they choose to view it. However, my opinion is not changing because I’ve seen this film many times before and I know how it always ends...not well.

The bottom line is you hire a coach to win football games and not embarrass the program off the field. That’s why he’s hired. Gundy has clearly accomplished both of those things beyond all reasonable expectations and better than anyone else in that program’s history. And yet, because they are not beating a team that nobody else is beating either, the A.D. felt the need to publicly defecate on him. I’m sorry but that’s just not reasonable and there is no was to defend it without also coming across as being completely unreasonable.

You can play silly debating games, you can obfuscate, you can recriminate, you can do whatever you like. However, none of that changes the fact that actual results will always mean more than predicted outcomes, period.
 
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I think some of you have decided that college football is or has become static. That somehow, no school can elevate beyond its station for any real, worthwhile period so any suggestion that its possible is automatically dismissed. Just because Oklahoma is a "traditional power" doesn't mean they can't be displaced by OSU. Furthermore, the AD at OSU wanting the program to recruit better is not asking too much of a good coach. It sounds like the beginning of a conversation about what it's going to take to make that happen.
 
*coughs* Check their OOC schedule.

If this is a joke about how they destroyed Pitt twice, well played.

If it was a comment about them not being as good as their record, I don't buy it.

Bowl games under Gundy since 2010
Win over #22 Virginia Tech
Win over #11 Colorado
Loss to #16 Ole Miss
Win over Washington
Loss to #9 Mizzou
Win over Purdue
Win over #3 Stanford
Win over Arizona

I'd take that any day!
 
If this is a joke about how they destroyed Pitt twice, well played.

If it was a comment about them not being as good as their record, I don't buy it.

Bowl games under Gundy since 2010
Win over #22 Virginia Tech
Win over #11 Colorado
Loss to #16 Ole Miss
Win over Washington
Loss to #9 Mizzou
Win over Purdue
Win over #3 Stanford
Win over Arizona

I'd take that any day!

No. Look at their recent OOC scheduling.
 
No. Look at their recent OOC scheduling.

They play ten power five teams per year, same as us. But for them it's 9 in conference, 1 out of conference, plus 2 cupcakes. And as I mentioned, they win their bowl games, which is a better test than the average non conference opponent is. They're a legit, consistently ranked team with a coach who knows how to coach quarterbacks.
 
They play ten power five teams per year, same as us. But for them it's 9 in conference, 1 out of conference, plus 2 cupcakes. And as I mentioned, they win their bowl games, which is a better test than the average non conference opponent is. They're a legit, consistently ranked team with a coach who knows how to coach quarterbacks.

Yes, you're correct. The discussion was about why they're winning so many games with respect to their "average" recruiting. Part of the reason is because they're not beating their brains in OOC like a certain local school we all love.
 
Yes, you're correct. The discussion was about why they're winning so many games with respect to their "average" recruiting. Part of the reason is because they're not beating their brains in OOC like a certain local school we all love.

I think the results on the field in Cowboys vs. Panthers the last two years show that a lot of that is they're just a better team. Much better. My hunch the average strength of schedule for the two schools is about the same, though feel free to look it up and prove me wrong.
 
I think the results on the field in Cowboys vs. Panthers the last two years show that a lot of that is they're just a better team. Much better. My hunch the average strength of schedule for the two schools is about the same, though feel free to look it up and prove me wrong.

I'm not going to bother. It's been debated at length with numbers and facts if you'd like to look at other threads. Plus the recent trend is for someone to come riding in and yell "nitter" or "blovating" (which isn't even a word) and they'll demand you put me on "ignore" if try. Sorry.
 
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I'm not going to bother. It's been debated at length with numbers and facts if you'd like to look at other threads. Plus the recent trend is for someone to come riding in and yell "nitter" or "blovating" (which isn't even a word) and they'll demand you put me on "ignore" if try. Sorry.

I got your back. Being a nitter it won’t offend me when someone comes riding in and calls me that.

Since 2013 when Pitt joined the ACC:
Pitt’s:
3.49, 0.97, 3.78, 3.51, 4.13

OkSU:
3.76, 3.49, 1.57, 1.70, 3.02.

For reference the difference in rank for 2017 between a 4.13 and a 3.02 is 34th and 52nd.

EDIT: These are from sports-reference.com.
 
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I got your back. Being a nitter it won’t offend me when someone comes riding in and calls me that.

Since 2013 when Pitt joined the ACC:
Pitt’s:
3.49, 0.97, 3.78, 3.51, 4.13

OkSU:
3.76, 3.49, 1.57, 1.70, 3.02.

For reference the difference in rank for 2017 between a 4.13 and a 3.02 is 34th and 52nd.

EDIT: These are from sports-reference.com.

Some of these guys don't like facts but I appreciate it.
 
They play ten power five teams per year, same as us. But for them it's 9 in conference, 1 out of conference, plus 2 cupcakes. And as I mentioned, they win their bowl games, which is a better test than the average non conference opponent is. They're a legit, consistently ranked team with a coach who knows how to coach quarterbacks.

Bowl games are horrible tests. There's nothing worse than using bowl games to prove conference strength, a team's strength, etc.
 
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Bowl games are horrible tests. There's nothing worse than using bowl games to prove conference strength, a team's strength, etc.

I feel like when comparing two teams head-to-head I agree that the result of a singular bowl game is not a good comparison because players sit out, teams have different levels of motivation, etc. However, if you take say a ten year look at how a team performs I think it’s valid to use that as a data point to judge a program.

Regardless of the challenge in any one year winning bowl games is important. Winning NY6 games is more important, and winning playoff games is up another level.
 
In addition to managing the coaches, he also has to do whatever he can to manage the boosters. We all know that you need generous boosters to fund a program, but boosters are also the number one reason why programs fall apart. Their passion and influence outweigh their acumen and that has led to numerous disasters through the years.

So again, what’s the remedy at Oklahoma State? What should they do? I think I know exactly what they should not do, but I’d like to hear your answer.
Well, if the new ceiling is 9-3 and Gundy has a couple years below that and top boosters want him gone and will pull support, he would likely be fired. 8-4 or worse a couple more times in the next few years with that schedule and ALWAYS losing to OU is not good enough for a top 15 paid coach.
 
Expressing an opinion and having a conversation is one thing, but refusing to answer questions for fear of being proven wrong is another... It's a waste of time.
I answer questions and debate all the time. You avoid everything because you are a ridiculous homer who blocks anyone with a rational opinion, even when they have clear evidence to back their positions.

Why do P5 offers matter, but not when Pitt recruits don't have them?
 
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If this is a joke about how they destroyed Pitt twice, well played.

If it was a comment about them not being as good as their record, I don't buy it.

Bowl games under Gundy since 2010
Win over #22 Virginia Tech
Win over #11 Colorado
Loss to #16 Ole Miss
Win over Washington
Loss to #9 Mizzou
Win over Purdue
Win over #3 Stanford
Win over Arizona

I'd take that any day!

To be fair they actually only destroyed Pitt once, the game at OSU could’ve gone either way.
 
To be fair they actually only destroyed Pitt once, the game at OSU could’ve gone either way.

You're right. I forgot how many points we scored two seasons ago. My bad.

I still think Gundy is a very good coach who has won a lot of games because of how he coaches quarterbacks -- and recruits Texas etc kids who know the Air Raid inside and out from year round and 7 on 7 football culture.
 
I answer questions and debate all the time. You avoid everything because you are a ridiculous homer who blocks anyone with a rational opinion, even when they have clear evidence to back their positions.

Why do P5 offers matter, but not when Pitt recruits don't have them?

He's been hostile and defensive since he got busted down with facts and being called out for talking out of both sides of his mouth.
 
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