Whipple vs Cignetti

[joeydavid]

I know I might’ve said this before but I really don’t understand why Narduzzi was so down on Mark Whipple’s offense. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the scheme and design of the place. The only issue I could see would be telling Mark Whipple to run the ball 10 more times a game as opposed to throwing it 10 more times a game. If you can has a coach cure Mark Whipple’s Mike Martz syndrome by by saying you can throw for 500 yds but make sure you run when we are up to close a game. With Cignetti I feel like it’s more of a intentional thing to run the ball 45 times when I’ve always said that you need to be worried about the quality of the runs not the quantity. In order to get quality runs you need to have a intricate passing game that means has an office you can attack every dimension of the field. You can attack with the tight ends you can attack with the wide receivers ,you can attack with the running backs ,you can attack deep ,you can attack short……. Why couldn’t have Narduzzi just told Whipple to run the ball 8 more times a game? Cignetti has good play design but He is making Pitt one dimensional and not using all of the weapons he has which would make them even harder to defend. I wonder if that is Narduzzi telling him that?

Whipple led Nebraska to the 101st best total offense while averaging 344 yards per game. NE is 102nd in scoring offense at 22 ppg.

Cignetti led Pitt to the 59th best total offense while averaging 404 yards per game while dealing with a barage of injuries. Pitt is 48th in scoring offense at 30.8 ppg.

At this point, anyone looking at this season (and year 1 & 2 of Whip) objectively should agree that Narduzzi made the right call on not renewing Whipple's contract.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Whipple led Nebraska to the 101st best total offense while averaging 344 yards per game. NE is 102nd in scoring offense at 22 ppg.

Cignetti led Pitt to the 59th best total offense while averaging 404 yards per game while dealing with a barage of injuries. Pitt is 48th in scoring offense at 30.8 ppg.

At this point, anyone looking at this season (and year 1 & 2 of Whip) objectively should agree that Narduzzi made the right call on not renewing Whipple's contract.

What?

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Whipple led Nebraska to the 101st best total offense while averaging 344 yards per game. NE is 102nd in scoring offense at 22 ppg.

Cignetti led Pitt to the 59th best total offense while averaging 404 yards per game while dealing with a barage of injuries. Pitt is 48th in scoring offense at 30.8 ppg.

At this point, anyone looking at this season (and year 1 & 2 of Whip) objectively should agree that Narduzzi made the right call on not renewing Whipple's contract.

There are a lot of things you can parse, but the difference is big enough to negate all of them. One was clearly better than the other.

It doesn't matter because those pining for Whipple will now just say they should have hired someone else. Some unknown unicorn OC who scored 40 points a game without the horses to do so.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

There are a lot of things you can parse, but the difference is big enough to negate all of them. One was clearly better than the other.

It doesn't matter because those pining for Whipple will now just say they should have hired someone else. Some unknown unicorn OC who scored 40 points a game without the horses to do so.

Do you think Cignettit was Narduzzi's first choice? Or do you think he reached out to two other candidates first? Just curious what people think.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Do you think Cignettit was Narduzzi's first choice? Or do you think he reached out to two other candidates first? Just curious what people think.

I don't know, and don't think we'll ever really know. I'd hope he reached out to multiple people.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

l always hate the coordinator debates (other than examining statistical results, which is fair) because people have this idea that there is this one offense or defense that if we would just use we would win more with. Which is almost always untrue.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I don't think it has to be between Whipple and Cignetti. Whipple was never coming back. But I think Narduzzi went the wrong direction with the hire. Maybe a panic after the initial guys he had in mind didn't pan out.

 

[ChazzMo]

. . . Whip had 1 fluke year.

Did somebody say Matt Canada?

 

[Burgh15]

I don't think it has to be between Whipple and Cignetti. Whipple was never coming back. But I think Narduzzi went the wrong direction with the hire. Maybe a panic after the initial guys he had in mind didn't pan out.

This is where I am. It was probably time for the two sides to move on but also an opportunity for Pitt to move in a different direction than they did.

 

[cashisking884]

After last year’s offense, Whipple made it tough to not bring him if he wanted to come back.

But Narduzzi was justified in not keeping him. Whipple had horrible offenses before last year. A bunch of horrible years isn’t made up for just because you have one really good year, and needed a 1st rounder and top WR to not have that horrible year.

But not bringing Whipple back so you can hire FCJ is crazy.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I’ll vote for the Libertarian or even the Green candidate please

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

After last year’s offense, Whipple made it tough to not bring him if he wanted to come back.

But Narduzzi was justified in not keeping him. Whipple had horrible offenses before last year. A bunch of horrible years isn’t made up for just because you have one really good year, and needed a 1st rounder and top WR to not have that horrible year.

But not bringing Whipple back so you can hire FCJ is crazy.

Yeah, we were a pretty attractive destination for an offensive coach (which kind of sounds funny to say now). Still had Addison, were returning the entire line, and Slovis was thought to be at least half-decent. We needed to strike while the iron was hot, instead of getting some old journeyman fart who I'm sure BC was more than happy to take off the payroll.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Yeah, we were a pretty attractive destination for an offensive coach (which kind of sounds funny to say now). Still had Addison, were returning the entire line, and Slovis was thought to be at least half-decent. We needed to strike while the iron was hot, instead of getting some old journeyman fart who I'm sure BC was more than happy to take off the payroll.

Do you think Graham Harrell would have done better with Slovis? Honest question. The offense played about as well as any on Saturday. How anyone can find fault with balance like that doesn't make sense.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I don't think it has to be between Whipple and Cignetti. Whipple was never coming back. But I think Narduzzi went the wrong direction with the hire. Maybe a panic after the initial guys he had in mind didn't pan out.

No argument, but this is/was a Whipple vs Cignetti thread. I don't think Whipple would have done any better than FCJ this year.

I was ok with the FCJ hire. Not enamored, but OK with it. I think some people on this board have gone off the deep end with their hatred, and in doing so have lost all sense of objectivity and reality. Any OC needs a QB to succeed, and ours was pretty average.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

No argument, but this is/was a Whipple vs Cignetti thread. I don't think Whipple would have done any better than FCJ this year.

I was ok with the FCJ hire. Not enamored, but OK with it. I think some people on this board have gone off the deep end with their hatred, and in doing so have lost all sense of objectivity and reality. Any OC needs a QB to succeed, and ours was pretty average.

yep, my thoughts exactly.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

The offense played about as well as any on Saturday. How anyone can find fault with balance like that doesn't make sense.

And it was essentially the same offense they ran all year. The difference was execution. They actually came out and made throws, caught balls, and didn't take a ton of stupid penalties or turn it over.

 

[Chem95]

And it was essentially the same offense they ran all year. The difference was execution. They actually came out and made throws, caught balls, and didn't take a ton of stupid penalties or turn it over.

And got a little lucky. All those dropped snaps didn't hurt us....

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Do you think Graham Harrell would have done better with Slovis? Honest question. The offense played about as well as any on Saturday. How anyone can find fault with balance like that doesn't make sense.

One solid game on offense doesn't make up for the rest of the season, though. We also played a team that was getting senior walks-ons some playing time and had absolutely zero interest in tackling. They've been called out for quitting in like 800 difference places.

As for Harrell, I honestly don't know. In a vacuum, that probably fits Slovis' skill set better. In general, I think anyone who goes under center most of the time and who invites congestion to the line of scrimmage is really behind the times. Michigan is pulling it off this year because they have one of the best offensive lines in the country. And the funny thing about their game against OSU, and I heard this explained on a podcast, was that they got 350 yards on 5 plays. On their other 55 plays, they only average 3.2 yards per play. It defied almost every law of averages.

The metrics are pretty clear that playing that style of football isn't smart. And I would argue that it's especially true when you recruit like Pitt. Even Alabama has evolved beyond it.

 

[joeydavid]

Do you think Graham Harrell would have done better with Slovis? Honest question. The offense played about as well as any on Saturday. How anyone can find fault with balance like that doesn't make sense.

There's enough evidence to see Slovis could have had a better year in this system had he not been a human tackling dummy for the first 2 games. Post-concussion, he hasn't been the same quarterback.

I would like to see him come back after spending the offseason working on his eye discipline.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

One solid game on offense doesn't make up for the rest of the season, though. We also played a team that was getting senior walks-ons some playing time and had absolutely zero interest in tackling. They've been called out for quitting in like 800 difference places.

As for Harrell, I honestly don't know. In a vacuum, that probably fits Slovis' skill set better. In general, I think anyone who goes under center most of the time and who invites congestion to the line of scrimmage is really behind the times. Michigan is pulling it off this year because they have one of the best offensive lines in the country. And the funny thing about their game against OSU, and I heard this explained on a podcast, was that they got 350 yards on 5 plays. On their other 55 plays, they only average 3.2 yards per play. It defied almost every law of averages.

The metrics are pretty clear that playing that style of football isn't smart. And I would argue that it's especially true when you recruit like Pitt. Even Alabama has evolved beyond it.

It was too bad Danielson usurped the meme for the game with his helmet antics. The best moment by far was the final kickoff when the Miami deep backs just stood there and let it bounce between them with clear disinterest. Clearly each unwilling to catch it to risk taking a hit. “I don’t want none of that sh1t.” “Me neither”

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

There's enough evidence to see Slovis could have had a better year in this system had he not been a human tackling dummy for the first 2 games. Post-concussion, he hasn't been the same quarterback.

I would like to see him come back after spending the offseason working on his eye discipline.

He was really indecisive before the concussion. Go back and watch the first 3 halves. You can literally see him thinking out loud. I'm not saying he didn't also make some decent plays - particularly when we opened it up and let him go no huddle - but then we kept going back under center and slowing the pace and he never really acclimated to that. He's really struggled all year, honestly.

 

[cashisking884]

He was really indecisive before the concussion. Go back and watch the first 3 halves. You can literally see him thinking out load. He;s really struggled all year, honestly.

Slovis was the exact same QB he was at USC.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

He was really indecisive before the concussion. Go back and watch the first 3 halves. You can literally see him thinking out loud. I'm not saying he didn't also make some decent plays - particularly when we opened it up and let him go no huddle - but then we kept going back under center and slowing the pace and he never really acclimated to that. He's really struggled all year, honestly.

Slovis wasn't going to produce a Pickett season. Was hoping for more of a Nate Peterman in 2016, If that happened we aren't having this discussion now. I don't think any OC would have changed that but your point about being under center too often is valid.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Slovis was the exact same QB he was at USC.

I only watched his highlight tape, and that's just not a good depiction. But even on those I was concerned at how many times he just let it loose when the play wasn't really there. Now, obviously it ended in his receivers making the play anyway... otherwise it wouldn't be on the highlight video. But a lot of his better plays looked like that second touchdown to Bradley against GT or the touchdown to Means at UVA where he just threw caution to the wind. Makes me wonder how well he actually processes the game.

 

[pbrad]

Let's see if Rhule keeps Whipple.

 

[joeydavid]

Let's see if Rhule keeps Whipple.

That's funny.

 

[TD_6082]

One solid game on offense doesn't make up for the rest of the season, though. We also played a team that was getting senior walks-ons some playing time and had absolutely zero interest in tackling. They've been called out for quitting in like 800 difference places.

As for Harrell, I honestly don't know. In a vacuum, that probably fits Slovis' skill set better. In general, I think anyone who goes under center most of the time and who invites congestion to the line of scrimmage is really behind the times. Michigan is pulling it off this year because they have one of the best offensive lines in the country. And the funny thing about their game against OSU, and I heard this explained on a podcast, was that they got 350 yards on 5 plays. On their other 55 plays, they only average 3.2 yards per play. It defied almost every law of averages.

The metrics are pretty clear that playing that style of football isn't smart. And I would argue that it's especially true when you recruit like Pitt. Even Alabama has evolved beyond it.

I think you can win either way. A lot of it just depends on the strengths of the personnel.

It's important to note, UGA is the new king of the SEC. Bama is in the middle of an identity crisis & Saban is getting ready to clean house with both coordinator positions. (at least that's the word on the street from T-town)

 

[TD_6082]

Let's see if Rhule keeps Whipple.

Rhule already hired Marcus Satterfield from South Carolina.

 

[Parkview57]

. Why couldn’t have Narduzzi just told Whipple to run the ball 8 more times a game?

It becomes a "I'll prove I know more than the HC" situation when you have established OC/DC's, it is not sustainable, in other words, when the philosophy's are different and you are not producing year after year the coordinator is doomed, for good reason, as the HC's career is on the line. If the OC or DC is so good, the HC stays out of the way, i.e. Uncle Jerry and JoPa, when things would go bad on the PSU sideline JoPa would rant and rave and everyone would scatter until he came face to face with Jerry who looked right at him like "get lost" causing JoPa to just walk away.