Who wants to be a starting Center in the ACC?

[Sean Miller Fan]

With the success of Beyond the Script, maybe it would be appropriate for Pitt to produce a show about Capel scouring the nation for somebody, anybody to come in and play Center as much as their legs and lungs will allow them.

Its frustrating to see just about every team in the league have 2-3 centers better than anyone on our roster.

Kene and Brown try hard and occassionally make some plays but both have too many limitations.

As I posted earlier this week, this is a Sweet 16 team in 2 years and maybe an NCAAT next year if we can just get an ACC-level center. Just need a guy who can get a few rebounds and finish at the rim.

 

[wbrpanther]

With the success of Beyond the Script, maybe it would be appropriate for Pitt to produce a show about Capel scouring the nation for somebody, anybody to come in and play Center as much as their legs and lungs will allow them.

Its frustrating to see just about every team in the league have 2-3 centers better than anyone on our roster.

Kene and Brown try hard and occassionally make some plays but both have too many limitations.

As I posted earlier this week, this is a Sweet 16 team in 2 years and maybe an NCAAT next year if we can just get an ACC-level center. Just need a guy who can get a few rebounds and finish at the rim.

You do understand that recruiting comes in one year cycles, right? We know we need a center. Capel knows too. We will be stronger next year and stronger yet the year after.

 

[DT_PITT]

With the success of Beyond the Script, maybe it would be appropriate for Pitt to produce a show about Capel scouring the nation for somebody, anybody to come in and play Center as much as their legs and lungs will allow them.

Its frustrating to see just about every team in the league have 2-3 centers better than anyone on our roster.

Kene and Brown try hard and occassionally make some plays but both have too many limitations.

As I posted earlier this week, this is a Sweet 16 team in 2 years and maybe an NCAAT next year if we can just get an ACC-level center. Just need a guy who can get a few rebounds and finish at the rim.

Brown is looking more like a legit ACC center. Probably not top half, even by the time he's done. But a legit starter would look like where he ends up.

 

[Pittx9]

Brown is looking more like a legit ACC center. Probably not top half, even by the time he's done. But a legit starter would look like where he ends up.

I’d be fine with brown starting just for his shot blocking ability if we could get a really good PF that is more of the scorer and that becomes our leading rebounder.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Brown is looking more like a legit ACC center. Probably not top half, even by the time he's done. But a legit starter would look like where he ends up.

Thank you for saying that, DT. I had a conversation with a friend a few hours ago about the same subject. My friend frustrated me with some of his expectations of Brown. This is the same guy who was a huge Gary McGhee fan. I asked him if he remembered Gary McGhee as a sophomore??

My position is that Brown is that typical developmental Big that you need in your program. Kene too. Unfortunately he was thrust onto the floor last year and that’s not his fault. It doesn’t diminish from who he is. My contention last year was that by his junior year, he will be a part of the rotation that will make positive contributions for a winning team. And right now, he looks to be ahead of my timeline because he’s doing some things to help us right now.

I’m not sure how much weight or strength he can add to that frame, but I’m proud of the work he’s putting in for this program. We will need to add a couple rebounders next season. I don’t think anyone will argue that. I’d like to see a grad transfer. But Terrell Brown still has a good future here and I’m excited to see him play his last two years.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Brown is looking more like a legit ACC center. Probably not top half, even by the time he's done. But a legit starter would look like where he ends up.

I'm surprised to hear you say that. I totally disagree. Brown does have a nice mid-range shot and hook but he cannot rebound at all......he certainly doesnt rebound out of his area. And he doesnt have that beast mentality that you need. I keep hearing the McGhee comparisons but McGhee was a warrior. He was tough, rugged, would do anything to get a board. Brown just doesnt have that in him.

Brown as a senior would maybe, maybe be an ACC-level backup. He just cant rebound enough and rebounding something you really cant coach, like shot blocking (which he is good at). You can either do it or you cant.

If we cant get a decent 5 in here, these 3 guards' talents are going to get wasted. We desperately need some bigs.

 

[pittbb80]

I dont think anyone knows how good Brown can be. Pitt fans have short memories.......Patterson, McGee, Wannamaker were all players who in their Soph years many were claiming were not D1 players and wished JD would encourage them to transfer.

For sure Brown still has holes in his game He certainly has issues with maintaining focus and intensity for 40 minutes. He often times seems slow to recognize situations and react. But we've seen significant improvement in those areas in a short time to the point where hes serviceable for this team With additional hard work and experience which should help the game slow down for him and allow him to anticipate better who knows he may be another kid that the fan bases worries about how we are going to replace them when he graduates (after wanting him off the team two years earlier),

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I dont think anyone knows how good Brown can be. Pitt fans have short memories.......Patterson, McGee, Wannamaker were all players who in their Soph years many were claiming were not D1 players and wished JD would encourage them to transfer.

For sure Brown still has holes in his game He certainly has issues with maintaining focus and intensity for 40 minutes. He often times seems slow to recognize situations and react. But we've seen significant improvement in those areas in a short time to the point where hes serviceable for this team With additional hard work and experience which should help the game slow down for him and allow him to anticipate better who knows he may be another kid that the fan bases worries about how we are going to replace them when he graduates (after wanting him off the team two years earlier),

I think it’s pretty clear what his ceiling is
He has offensive touch but lacks physical ability.

So he’s not going to be a finisher above the rim or rebound out of space.

He’s a finesse player in other words

 

[pittbb80]

I think it’s pretty clear what his ceiling is
He has offensive touch but lacks physical ability.

So he’s not going to be a finisher above the rim or rebound out of space.

He’s a finesse player in other words

Finesse players are generally not shot blockers........Ill wait and see how he progresses over the next two years. As I said, plenty of the talent experts on this board wanted McGee, Brad and Lamar gone after year two

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Finesse players are generally not shot blockers........Ill wait and see how he progresses over the next two years. As I said, plenty of the talent experts on this board wanted McGee, Brad and Lamar gone after year two

Sure they are.

He’s not blocking at the rim ala Hakeem warrick- it’s closing on shots away from the rim with his length.

Nobody wants him gone.

He lacks bounce and a good second jump.
It’s not going to develop.

He can improve his hands, keeping the ball high (he has a bad habit of making himself small off the catch)- and finding crafty ways to finish around the rim.

He isn’t going to physically change his athleticism .
Gary had bounce and was a natural rebounder. He was the opposite side of the coin of brown.

Much like Ellison isn’t going to become a shooter .

It’s okat to be realistic about limitations on middle tier players.

Now Toney, mcgowens, and x- their potential is unlimited.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I think it’s pretty clear what his ceiling is
He has offensive touch but lacks physical ability.

So he’s not going to be a finisher above the rim or rebound out of space.

He’s a finesse player in other words

People are getting carried away with his ability because he can make an outside shot and dunk it if he is wide open. The reality is he cannot jump that high so he cannot finish dunks over length and he cannot rebound out of his area. These are not things that can be improved.

 

[pittbb80]

Rebounding doesnt require jumping high......Chevy was not a great leaper. Neither was Mcgee. Not that jumping high doesnt help but you can be a very good rebounder with good position and anticipation. If Brown continues to hit the weight room and gets PT and works on it with the coaches he can be a much better rebounder than he is now. Not saying hes going to be dominant but he will be a ACC level big rebounder. Browns length doesnt require him to be a great leaper.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Try not to forget Gary McGhee redshirted .

Who rebounded better Charles Smithor Jerome Lane ?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I'm surprised to hear you say that. I totally disagree. Brown does have a nice mid-range shot and hook but he cannot rebound at all......he certainly doesnt rebound out of his area. And he doesnt have that beast mentality that you need. I keep hearing the McGhee comparisons but McGhee was a warrior. He was tough, rugged, would do anything to get a board. Brown just doesnt have that in him.

Brown is 269 in the country in offensive rebounding percentage and 326 in defensive rebounding percentage. His offensive rebounding percentage is slightly worse than McGhee's was as a sophomore but his defensive rebounding percentage is much, much better.

The question is how much he can improve, because McGhee improved a lot over his last two years. It remains to be seen if Brown can.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

1 center away from a really good team
1 center + pf away from a really really good team

 

[NCanton Panther]

I'm surprised to hear you say that. I totally disagree. Brown does have a nice mid-range shot and hook but he cannot rebound at all......he certainly doesnt rebound out of his area. And he doesnt have that beast mentality that you need. I keep hearing the McGhee comparisons but McGhee was a warrior. He was tough, rugged, would do anything to get a board. Brown just doesnt have that in him.

Brown as a senior would maybe, maybe be an ACC-level backup. He just cant rebound enough and rebounding something you really cant coach, like shot blocking (which he is good at). You can either do it or you cant.

If we cant get a decent 5 in here, these 3 guards' talents are going to get wasted. We desperately need some bigs.

I think Brown is better than you make him out to be. I agree his big weakness/liability is rebounding.

Wholeheartedly agree with you on all the comparisons to MaGhee. I don’t remotely see any similarities as well.

 

[JS School]

I foresee a C ranked about 75-125 coming here and immediately being labeled a bust when he doesn't beat out Brown. Big men usually take time to develop.

Brown will never come close to McGhee as a defender and his hands are just as bad. He is a better scorer and shot blocker, though, and may end up rebounding about the same. As a JR and Sr he may be an average ACC center.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I foresee a C ranked about 75-125 coming here and immediately being labeled a bust when he doesn't beat out Brown. Big men usually take time to develop.

Brown will never come close to McGhee as a defender and his hands are just as bad. He is a better scorer and shot blocker, though, and may end up rebounding about the same. As a JR and Sr he may be an average ACC center.

A kid ranked 75-125 should be able to beat out Brown from Day 1 due to 1 thing: rebounding. Basketball experts agree that rebounding is the 1 skill that translates to all levels. Its something you can either do or you cant.

 

[JS School]

A kid ranked 75-125 should be able to beat out Brown from Day 1 due to 1 thing: rebounding. Basketball experts agree that rebounding is the 1 skill that translates to all levels. Its something you can either do or you cant.

What was Malcolm Gilbert ranked?

 

[pittzap]

I foresee a C ranked about 75-125 coming here and immediately being labeled a bust when he doesn't beat out Brown. Big men usually take time to develop.

Brown will never come close to McGhee as a defender and his hands are just as bad. He is a better scorer and shot blocker, though, and may end up rebounding about the same. As a JR and Sr he may be an average ACC center.

McGhee was much stronger and much more aggressive. Not similar in any way to Brown. Gary went from unbelievably bad to a good center in his time at Pitt.

 

[JS School]

McGhee was much stronger and much more aggressive. Not similar in any way to Brown. Gary went from unbelievably bad to a good center in his time at Pitt.

I'm not sure if you are trying to disagree with me, but I pointed all the ways in which they were not similar, other than having bad hands. Their strengths and weaknesses are almost the exact opposite of each other. That doesn't ensure that their overall effectiveness will differ markedly, however.

Brown is much more of a finesse player, but he may develop into an average rebounder. Brute strength helps, but you can be average without it.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What was Malcolm Gilbert ranked?

Rivals had him at 133 but he was a huge bust. He barely got off the bench for Fairfield after he transferred. He was as bad as a D1 center could be.

 

[JS School]

Rivals had him at 133 but he was a huge bust. He barely got off the bench for Fairfield after he transferred. He was as bad as a D1 center could be.

So it's not a sure thing that someone with a similar ranking is not going to beat out Brown from Day 1? Or is there a big difference between 125 and 133?

I agree that a kid with that ranking should eventually take the starting job from Brown, if he is ranked accurately. But give Brown some credit for improving. And have some patience with a newcomer, a freshman big probably won't have an immediate impact as great as this year's freshmen.

 

[Ski11585]

A lot of folks (I'm looking at you @Sean Miller Fan) forget how bad Gary was his first few years.

 

[thirteenNINE]

When did this whole, Brown can't rebound thing just become accepted as common wisdom because it's laughably and patently false. He's not an elite rebounder by any means but he's already pretty average for your starting center in the ACC.

His ORB% is 9.7% which is 11th in the conference, his DRB% is 19.1% which is 13th in the conference, and his TRB% is 14.8% which is 11th in the conference. Every player that ranks ahead of him in total rebound % is a grown ass man upperclassman (Mooney, Izundu, Thomas, Maye, Banks, Key, Blackshear), an elite 5 star recruit headed for the lottery (Williamson, Hoard), or Jordan Nwora. He really is quite a bit better than I projected him to be this year and he is only getting better.

Couple that with his elite+ shotblocking, where he is 6th in the entire country and 1st in the ACC both in conference play and out of conference play in Blk%, and there is no one on the board right now who is going to come in and play over him for the next two years. This doesn't mean that we don't need more size, especially at the 4, but we're kind of out of the starting center market right now in a good way.

 

[DT_PITT]

Try not to forget Gary McGhee redshirted .

Who rebounded better Charles Smithor Jerome Lane ?

Actually, he did not redshirt. He played as a true freshman in 2007-2008.

 

[pittzap]

I'm not sure if you are trying to disagree with me, but I pointed all the ways in which they were not similar, other than having bad hands. Their strengths and weaknesses are almost the exact opposite of each other. That doesn't ensure that their overall effectiveness will differ markedly, however.

Brown is much more of a finesse player, but he may develop into an average rebounder. Brute strength helps, but you can be average without it.

No. I agree with you. I do think Brown can get better. I'd love to see him get stronger, though. He has a long wingspan but he is skinny. Chevy was so effective because he was so strong. But he also had a long wingspan. But his lower body was so strong that players couldn't back him down. Brown gets pushed around too much. If he puts weight on, it could really help him, as he has better offensive skills than McGhee.

 

[pittjas]

When did this whole, Brown can't rebound thing just become accepted as common wisdom because it's laughably and patently false. He's not an elite rebounder by any means but he's already pretty average for your starting center in the ACC.

His ORB% is 9.7% which is 11th in the conference, his DRB% is 19.1% which is 13th in the conference, and his TRB% is 14.8% which is 11th in the conference. Every player that ranks ahead of him in total rebound % is a grown ass man upperclassman (Mooney, Izundu, Thomas, Maye, Banks, Key, Blackshear), an elite 5 star recruit headed for the lottery (Williamson, Hoard), or Jordan Nwora. He really is quite a bit better than I projected him to be this year and he is only getting better.

Couple that with his elite+ shotblocking, where he is 6th in the entire country and 1st in the ACC both in conference play and out of conference play in Blk%, and there is no one on the board right now who is going to come in and play over him for the next two years. This doesn't mean that we don't need more size, especially at the 4, but we're kind of out of the starting center market right now in a good way.

What are your thoughts/numbers on Ellison overall?

 

[pittbb80]

When did this whole, Brown can't rebound thing just become accepted as common wisdom because it's laughably and patently false. He's not an elite rebounder by any means but he's already pretty average for your starting center in the ACC.

His ORB% is 9.7% which is 11th in the conference, his DRB% is 19.1% which is 13th in the conference, and his TRB% is 14.8% which is 11th in the conference. Every player that ranks ahead of him in total rebound % is a grown ass man upperclassman (Mooney, Izundu, Thomas, Maye, Banks, Key, Blackshear), an elite 5 star recruit headed for the lottery (Williamson, Hoard), or Jordan Nwora. He really is quite a bit better than I projected him to be this year and he is only getting better.

Couple that with his elite+ shotblocking, where he is 6th in the entire country and 1st in the ACC both in conference play and out of conference play in Blk%, and there is no one on the board right now who is going to come in and play over him for the next two years. This doesn't mean that we don't need more size, especially at the 4, but we're kind of out of the starting center market right now in a good way.

Great post. Again not sure how high his ceiling is but with more experience and hitting the weights he can be a legit ACC/Big Rebounder. He may never be dominant but he'll be more than good enough.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Great post. Again not sure how high his ceiling is but with more experience and hitting the weights he can be a legit ACC/Big Rebounder. He may never be dominant but he'll be more than good enough.

Can he get better absolutely , but a large part of being great at rebounding is just having that natural instinct of where to be . Plus he's just not a quick twitch guy .