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Winless in ACC

and Jamie Dixon.

The underclassmen he left us with

Cam Johnson
Ryan Luther
Jonathan Milligan
Damon Wilson
Rozelle Nix
Justice Kithcart
Corey Manigault
Crisshawn Clark

6 of the 8 underclassmen were not ACC caliber and that was 100% on Jamie
Who is to say those younger guys would not have developed?

College coaches. They were awful. There's a reason they are currently at Portland, ODU, South Alabama, Indian Hills JC, and Georgia State.
 
College coaches. They were awful. There's a reason they are currently at Portland, ODU, South Alabama, Indian Hills JC, and Georgia State.

I am so beyond tired of this argument.

Old Dominion is 12-3 and projected to win Conference USA and are ranked 66th in Pomeroy ahead of schools like Wisconsin, Boston College and South Carolina. They are a good program and look to be even better next year.

Georgia State is ranked 151st in Pomeroy (39 spots ahead of us) and in my extremely early projects charts as the most likely Sun Belt champion next year which is better than I can say about us.

Clark went to Portland, yes, but only as a flyer. He unfortunately will never play basketball again and that was set the moment that he reinjured his knee for the hundredth time in practice last summer.

Nix just kind of always stunk and was a favor to Ontario Lett. I'm not surprised that he is struggling. Edit: And I'm still pretty sure that I would rather have one year of Nix than 4 of George.

Manigault is the weirdest case. He still holds offers coming out of JUCO from TCU and Washington State but his play hasn't been encouraging. And yet those offers are still there so we can't exactly discount them either.

All in all though, most of the players who left outside of the injured one traded up in the world.
 
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College coaches. They were awful. There's a reason they are currently at Portland, ODU, South Alabama, Indian Hills JC, and Georgia State.

I am so beyond tired of this argument.

Old Dominion is 12-3 and projected to win Conference USA and are ranked 66th in Pomeroy ahead of schools like Wisconsin, Boston College and South Carolina. They are a good program and look to be even better next year.

Georgia State is ranked 151st in Pomeroy (39 spots ahead of us) and in my extremely early projects charts as the most likely Sun Belt champion next year which is better than I can say about us.

Clark went to Portland, yes, but only as a flyer. He unfortunately will never play basketball again and that was set the moment that he reinjured his knee for the hundredth time in practice last summer.

Nix just kind of always stunk and was a favor to Ontario Lett. I'm not surprised that he is struggling. Edit: And I'm still pretty sure that I would rather have one year of Nix than 4 of George.

Manigault is the weirdest case. He still holds offers coming out of JUCO from TCU and Washington State but his play hasn't been encouraging. And yet those offers are still there so we can't exactly discount them either.

All in all though, most of the players who left outside of the injured one traded up in the world.

Traded up? None got an offer from a school in the Top 8 conferences in the nation.
 
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I am so beyond tired of this argument.

Old Dominion is 12-3 and projected to win Conference USA and are ranked 66th in Pomeroy ahead of schools like Wisconsin, Boston College and South Carolina. They are a good program and look to be even better next year.

Georgia State is ranked 151st in Pomeroy (39 spots ahead of us) and in my extremely early projects charts as the most likely Sun Belt champion next year which is better than I can say about us.

Clark went to Portland, yes, but only as a flyer. He unfortunately will never play basketball again and that was set the moment that he reinjured his knee for the hundredth time in practice last summer.

Nix just kind of always stunk and was a favor to Ontario Lett. I'm not surprised that he is struggling.

Manigault is the weirdest case. He still holds offers coming out of JUCO from TCU and Washington State but his play hasn't been encouraging. And yet those offers are still there so we can't exactly discount them either.

All in all though, most of the players who left outside of the injured one traded up in the world.
I am beyond it too. Dixon couldn't recruit to compete in this conference, PERIOD! He was bringing in MAC and NEC caliber recruits and that is why he is gone. If he was bringing in players to compete in the ACC,( Yes the ACC is the conference we are in) he would still be here. He knew that he was not going to succeed and bailed. So why the hell would you defend these guys when they are a big part of the reason he left!

So many of you just don't get it. We made the conference move for the money it would generate on the football side. In doing so, we hung our hoops program out to dry. If you want to compete in the ACC it takes high end talent. We haven't seen real basketball players who could compete in this conference since Lamar Patterson and Talib Zanna. Jamie could no longer get them and he gave up, because the task was to big for him.

Stallings is in the hot seat now and hasn't been here very long yet, but, early returns on his recruiting are not very good. It has to be better, or we won't compete for along time. I don't feel like these young guys are worse than what Jamie was getting, but they have a long way to develop to make solid ACC status.

For those who want him fired, I am not sure what to tell you. Maybe he deserves more time. The two for next year seem like a step up from this years class. Maybe we take baby steps for a couple of seasons before we land some higher quality players, or maybe it doesn't happen at all.

Bottom line, many want a new coach and improved recruiting almost immediately. This is just so unrealistic. Who is knocking down Pitt's door right now to come in and be our coach, that would instantly upgrade our recruiting? It just aint out there! This is going to be a long and painful rebuild that likely involves several coaches and more than a few years.

We joined this conference with the reputation of a solid program behind a fixture for a coach who became the face of the program. That same coach was unable to adapt to the conference change. Upon leaving, the university completely shit the bed with its hiring procedure. When you move up to play with the blueest of the blue bloods from tobacco road, you had better meet the challenge by having your administration poised and ready to make the most important hire for what lies ahead. Instead ours failed miserably, with no plan in place, and now the program is losing attendance, many loyal followers, and most importantly hope.

The task at hand here is monumental, and there are many reasons for it. If you are racking your brain to defend Dixon's recruiting misses, your brain has been working on the wrong set of problems. The damage has been done to the program, and those Jamie recruits contrary to your belief, were not going to save it. Try using your noggen to come up with a plan to save the program, you would be better served spending your time on that.
 
I am beyond it too. Dixon couldn't recruit to compete in this conference, PERIOD! He was bringing in MAC and NEC caliber recruits and that is why he is gone. If he was bringing in players to compete in the ACC,( Yes the ACC is the conference we are in) he would still be here. He knew that he was not going to succeed and bailed. So why the hell would you defend these guys when they are a big part of the reason he left!

So many of you just don't get it. We made the conference move for the money it would generate on the football side. In doing so, we hung our hoops program out to dry. If you want to compete in the ACC it takes high end talent. We haven't seen real basketball players who could compete in this conference since Lamar Patterson and Talib Zanna. Jamie could no longer get them and he gave up, because the task was to big for him.

Stallings is in the hot seat now and hasn't been here very long yet, but, early returns on his recruiting are not very good. It has to be better, or we won't compete for along time. I don't feel like these young guys are worse than what Jamie was getting, but they have a long way to develop to make solid ACC status.

For those who want him fired, I am not sure what to tell you. Maybe he deserves more time. The two for next year seem like a step up from this years class. Maybe we take baby steps for a couple of seasons before we land some higher quality players, or maybe it doesn't happen at all.

Bottom line, many want a new coach and improved recruiting almost immediately. This is just so unrealistic. Who is knocking down Pitt's door right now to come in and be our coach, that would instantly upgrade our recruiting? It just aint out there! This is going to be a long and painful rebuild that likely involves several coaches and more than a few years.

We joined this conference with the reputation of a solid program behind a fixture for a coach who became the face of the program. That same coach was unable to adapt to the conference change. Upon leaving, the university completely shit the bed with its hiring procedure. When you move up to play with the blueest of the blue bloods from tobacco road, you had better meet the challenge by having your administration poised and ready to make the most important hire for what lies ahead. Instead ours failed miserably, with no plan in place, and now the program is losing attendance, many loyal followers, and most importantly hope.

The task at hand here is monumental, and there are many reasons for it. If you are racking your brain to defend Dixon's recruiting misses, your brain has been working on the wrong set of problems. The damage has been done to the program, and those Jamie recruits contrary to your belief, were not going to save it. Try using your noggen to come up with a plan to save the program, you would be better served spending your time on that.
I respect your passion, but look at all the other coaches that started their new jobs when Stallings did and look at the trajectory of that program. This is based on recruiting and W/L. I will strictly use comparables.

Beard - Up
Underwood - Up
Dixon - Up
Drew - Up
Pastner - Up
Wade - Up
Keatts - Up
Hurley - Up
Stallings - Down
 
It looks like the move to the ACC also hung our football program out to dry. But we got a boatload of money in the process!
 
Jamie has a cusp top-25 class coming in next season to Fort Worth. So what changed? He didn't become a dynamic recruiting personality overnight. He was given a large assistant budget which allowed him to hire two stud recruiters in David Patrick and Ryan Miller. People act like he stopped trying to recruit after the move to the ACC, which is just a ridiculous proposition. His recruiting base was totally transformed geographically, which is a really tough thing to overcome, especially at a school like Pitt. The most obvious way to address that issue would have been via the assistant coach route, guys with recruiting chops and ties to more suitable geographic areas for the conference. But for whatever reason that never occurred.
 
Thanks JD for parlaying all that winning in the BE and the accompanying positive pub into bottom 10 recruiting... what a dud!
 
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I am so beyond tired of this argument.

Old Dominion is 12-3 and projected to win Conference USA and are ranked 66th in Pomeroy ahead of schools like Wisconsin, Boston College and South Carolina. They are a good program and look to be even better next year.

Georgia State is ranked 151st in Pomeroy (39 spots ahead of us) and in my extremely early projects charts as the most likely Sun Belt champion next year which is better than I can say about us.

Clark went to Portland, yes, but only as a flyer. He unfortunately will never play basketball again and that was set the moment that he reinjured his knee for the hundredth time in practice last summer.

Nix just kind of always stunk and was a favor to Ontario Lett. I'm not surprised that he is struggling.

Manigault is the weirdest case. He still holds offers coming out of JUCO from TCU and Washington State but his play hasn't been encouraging. And yet those offers are still there so we can't exactly discount them either.

All in all though, most of the players who left outside of the injured one traded up in the world.
I am beyond it too. Dixon couldn't recruit to compete in this conference, PERIOD! He was bringing in MAC and NEC caliber recruits and that is why he is gone. If he was bringing in players to compete in the ACC,( Yes the ACC is the conference we are in) he would still be here. He knew that he was not going to succeed and bailed. So why the hell would you defend these guys when they are a big part of the reason he left!

So many of you just don't get it. We made the conference move for the money it would generate on the football side. In doing so, we hung our hoops program out to dry. If you want to compete in the ACC it takes high end talent. We haven't seen real basketball players who could compete in this conference since Lamar Patterson and Talib Zanna. Jamie could no longer get them and he gave up, because the task was to big for him.

Stallings is in the hot seat now and hasn't been here very long yet, but, early returns on his recruiting are not very good. It has to be better, or we won't compete for along time. I don't feel like these young guys are worse than what Jamie was getting, but they have a long way to develop to make solid ACC status.

For those who want him fired, I am not sure what to tell you. Maybe he deserves more time. The two for next year seem like a step up from this years class. Maybe we take baby steps for a couple of seasons before we land some higher quality players, or maybe it doesn't happen at all.

Bottom line, many want a new coach and improved recruiting almost immediately. This is just so unrealistic. Who is knocking down Pitt's door right now to come in and be our coach, that would instantly upgrade our recruiting? It just aint out there! This is going to be a long and painful rebuild that likely involves several coaches and more than a few years.

We joined this conference with the reputation of a solid program behind a fixture for a coach who became the face of the program. That same coach was unable to adapt to the conference change. Upon leaving, the university completely shit the bed with its hiring procedure. When you move up to play with the blueest of the blue bloods from tobacco road, you had better meet the challenge by having your administration poised and ready to make the most important hire for what lies ahead. Instead ours failed miserably, with no plan in place, and now the program is losing attendance, many loyal followers, and most importantly hope.

The task at hand here is monumental, and there are many reasons for it. If you are racking your brain to defend Dixon's recruiting misses, your brain has been working on the wrong set of problems. The damage has been done to the program, and those Jamie recruits contrary to your belief, were not going to save it. Try using your noggen to come up with a plan to save the program, you would be better served spending your time on that.

I agree with everything accept next year's recruiting. Its a step down. Kingsby is not as highly rated as JWF, more of a mid-major recruit and Golden is rated 204 by 24/7. That's Terrell Brown level. Both may be good but not difference makers.
 
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Jamie has a cusp top-25 class coming in next season to Fort Worth. So what changed? He didn't become a dynamic recruiting personality overnight. He was given a large assistant budget which allowed him to hire two stud recruiters in David Patrick and Ryan Miller. People act like he stopped trying to recruit after the move to the ACC, which is just a ridiculous proposition. His recruiting base was totally transformed geographically, which is a really tough thing to overcome, especially at a school like Pitt. The most obvious way to address that issue would have been via the assistant coach route, guys with recruiting chops and ties to more suitable geographic areas for the conference. But for whatever reason that never occurred.

I don't think Jamie would have ever been told "no" on an assistant he wanted here. I think its more like "the word" was out on Jamie's recruiting in this this part of the country and his lack of closing ability. It made it difficult for him to get top assistants.

Going to an entirely new region gives him a clean slate with AAU coaches, recruits, and assistant candidates for the most part
 
I don't think Jamie would have ever been told "no" on an assistant he wanted here. I think its more like "the word" was out on Jamie's recruiting in this this part of the country and his lack of closing ability. It made it difficult for him to get top assistants.

Going to an entirely new region gives him a clean slate with AAU coaches, recruits, and assistant candidates for the most part
That’s simply not a thing.
 
So what you are saying is that we should add your name to the list of people that assume that the name on the front of the jersey determines how good a team is. Got it.
I don’t see anywhere that SMF was stating how good or bad any of those schools our prior cast ended up at are. Only whether they traded up or down.

I don’t care what school name is on the front of the jersey, I ‘d say that as long as that school is in the ACC, everyone of that prior cast definitely traded down except for Cam.
 
I don’t see anywhere that SMF was stating how good or bad any of those schools our prior cast ended up at are. Only whether they traded up or down.


They (in some cases) went to teams that are better than us. Kind of by definition, that's trading up. I mean if someone transferred from Pitt to Gonzaga or Wichita State would they be trading down because those schools aren't in a top league? Or would they be trading up because right now those schools have better basketball teams than we do?

You don't have to answer, we all know the correct answer is that they'd be trading up, because they went to a better team. Because we all understand that the concept of trading up means going somewhere that's better. ODU is better than us. It's not even close. If you transfer right now from Pitt to ODU you have, by definition, traded up.
 
ODU is better than us. It's not even close. If you transfer right now from Pitt to ODU you have, by definition, traded up.

It’s funny that SMF will continue to post that a coach will not leave Xavier or Wichita for many P5 jobs because they are not an upgrade, yet a kid playing anywhere else but an 0-18 ACC team must clearly be a downgrade.
 
College coaches. They were awful. There's a reason they are currently at Portland, ODU, South Alabama, Indian Hills JC, and Georgia State.
No SMF, You are wrong. All the smart guys have convinced me they have traded up. These programs are powerhouses that would blow Pitt out right now! I heard Georgia St. and South Alabama are battling it out to land the top 3 star player in Georgia, he is rated number 510 on rivals!
 
It’s funny that SMF will continue to post that a coach will not leave Xavier or Wichita for many P5 jobs because they are not an upgrade, yet a kid playing anywhere else but an 0-18 ACC team must clearly be a downgrade.
Are you comparing Old Dominion and Georgia ST. to Wichita ST and Xavier? You really are hurting your credibility. They may be so called mid-majors, but, the comparison ends there. When one of these kids ends up at Wichita or Xavier you can say they traded up. Otherwise, you are just blowing smoke. That is what most of you do anyway.
 
Are you comparing Old Dominion and Georgia ST. to Wichita ST and Xavier? You really are hurting your credibility. They may be so called mid-majors, but, the comparison ends there. When one of these kids ends up at Wichita or Xavier you can say they traded up. Otherwise, you are just blowing smoke. That is what most of you do anyway.


Is ODU better than us right now or not? It's a simple question with an easy answer, but you've got to know that giving that answer makes you look silly, so this ought to be interesting. Are they better than us now or not?
 
They (in some cases) went to teams that are better than us. Kind of by definition, that's trading up. I mean if someone transferred from Pitt to Gonzaga or Wichita State would they be trading down because those schools aren't in a top league? Or would they be trading up because right now those schools have better basketball teams than we do?

You don't have to answer, we all know the correct answer is that they'd be trading up, because they went to a better team. Because we all understand that the concept of trading up means going somewhere that's better. ODU is better than us. It's not even close. If you transfer right now from Pitt to ODU you have, by definition, traded up.
We’re not talking about Gonzaga or Wichita St, we’re talking about the schools our prior cast transferred to.

If you, Levance and ThirteenNINE want to consider transferring to ODU or any of the others trading up relative to any ACC school that’s your choice. I think you’d be in a very small minority. They may have all had legitimate reasons why they transferred but I’m betting if any of them felt they would have gotten equal amount of playing time in the ACC compared to where they went, none of them would have left. That’s not trading up.
 
No SMF, You are wrong. All the smart guys have convinced me they have traded up. These programs are powerhouses that would blow Pitt out right now! I heard Georgia St. and South Alabama are battling it out to land the top 3 star player in Georgia, he is rated number 510 on rivals!
The guys that both transferred IN and transferred OUT of Pitt the last 4 years or so of "JD2" were more all or less really mediocre players, at best.
 
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We’re not talking about Gonzaga or Wichita St, we’re talking about the schools our prior cast transferred to.

If you, Levance and ThirteenNINE want to consider transferring to ODU or any of the others trading up relative to any ACC school that’s your choice. I think you’d be in a very small minority. They may have all had legitimate reasons why they transferred but I’m betting if any of them felt they would have gotten equal amount of playing time in the ACC compared to where they went, none of them would have left. That’s not trading up.


It's a simple question, and yet I noticed that you couldn't answer it. Is ODU better than us right now? If they are, then going to them is, by definition, trading up. If they are not, then going to them is, by definition, trading down. So which is it?

And for the record, since this seems to have gone over some folk's heads, SMF stated that these guys obviously traded down because they didn't have any offers from a team in a top 8 conference. The exact quote was "Traded up? None got an offer from a school in the Top 8 conferences in the nation." The clear and obvious implication of that is that if you didn't get an offer from a school in the top 8 you traded down. Now I don't know why he picked top 8, it's an odd number, everyone normally uses either P5 (the five big football conferences) or P6 (the better choice, because it includes the Big East who clearly is and has been at the level of the other five). So I don't know who exactly it is that he is including in the 8. But in any event, while the top 8 might include Wichita now that they are in the American, the top 8 in no way includes the WCC, which is where Gonzaga plays. So if, according to him, someone transferred from Pitt to Gonzaga that would be a step down, because Gonzaga is not in a top 8 conference.
 
It's a simple question, and yet I noticed that you couldn't answer it. Is ODU better than us right now? If they are, then going to them is, by definition, trading up. If they are not, then going to them is, by definition, trading down. So which is it?

And for the record, since this seems to have gone over some folk's heads, SMF stated that these guys obviously traded down because they didn't have any offers from a team in a top 8 conference. The exact quote was "Traded up? None got an offer from a school in the Top 8 conferences in the nation." The clear and obvious implication of that is that if you didn't get an offer from a school in the top 8 you traded down. Now I don't know why he picked top 8, it's an odd number, everyone normally uses either P5 (the five big football conferences) or P6 (the better choice, because it includes the Big East who clearly is and has been at the level of the other five). So I don't know who exactly it is that he is including in the 8. But in any event, while the top 8 might include Wichita now that they are in the American, the top 8 in no way includes the WCC, which is where Gonzaga plays. So if, according to him, someone transferred from Pitt to Gonzaga that would be a step down, because Gonzaga is not in a top 8 conference.
You are definitely right Joe, it is simple. I don’t care how good ODU is, if you left an ACC team to go there, you traded down.

And your entire second paragraph supports what I originally stated, SMF wasn’t debating whether or not any of the other schools are better or worse, only if they were trading up or down.
 
You are definitely right Joe, it is simple. I don’t care how good ODU is, if you left an ACC team to go there, you traded down.

And your entire second paragraph supports what I originally stated, SMF wasn’t debating whether or not any of the other schools are better or worse, only if they were trading up or down.
Leaving this particular Pitt team- how can anyone trade down?
 
You are definitely right Joe, it is simple. I don’t care how good ODU is, if you left an ACC team to go there, you traded down.

And your entire second paragraph supports what I originally stated, SMF wasn’t debating whether or not any of the other schools are better or worse, only if they were trading up or down.

Save your breathe and sanity. Anyone with common sense knows going to ODU is not trading up from an ACC Team.

It simply isn't.

And frankly, while Pitt stinks, ODU isn't exactly a dominating mid major. They are decent this year but they stink historically.
 
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Are you comparing Old Dominion and Georgia ST. to Wichita ST and Xavier? You really are hurting your credibility. They may be so called mid-majors, but, the comparison ends there.

I am not comparing them. I am saying that a team is not "better" by virtue of playing in the ACC.

Wichita, Nevada, Missouri State, Rhode Island, Gonzaga, South Dakota State, Western Kentucky, William & Mary, Louisiana Lafayette, Buffalo, New Mexico State, ETSU, Rider, Penn, Montana, UC Davis, Murray State, Vermont, Radford, Northern Kentucky, Bucknell, Stephen F Austin, FGCU all lead "weaker" conferences, yet would be favored on a neutral court over Pitt.

Only the NEC, MEAC, and SWAC wouldn't be, and that's giving Pitt the benefit of the doubt over SFPA in the NEC.
 
Maybe Milligan will get tired of losing playing time to the freshman and seek a mid-season transfer to IUP or Slippery Rock. That would be exciting for me, I can of course see all the geniuses tell me how he traded up. You guys need to extract your noses from Dixon's A$$. His recruiting killed us, but now all the rejects are leaving for better programs.
 
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Maybe Milligan will get tired of losing playing time to the freshman and seek a mid-season transfer to IUP or Slippery Rock. That would be exciting for me, I can of course see all the geniuses tell me how he traded up. You guys need to extract your noses from Dixon's A$$. His recruiting killed us, but now all the rejects are leaving for better programs.


Needing to resort to that sort of stupidity says all anyone needs to know about the quality of your argument.

If you can't respond with logic and facts throw out something really stupid, that will prove your point.
 
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and Jamie Dixon.

The underclassmen he left us with

Cam Johnson
Ryan Luther
Jonathan Milligan
Damon Wilson
Rozelle Nix
Justice Kithcart
Corey Manigault
Crisshawn Clark

6 of the 8 underclassmen were not ACC caliber and that was 100% on Jamie

Nice try, but wrong. There is not a single knowledgeable person in the country that believes Pitt would be this bad under Dixon. But thanks for playing.
 
Needing to resort to that sort of stupidity says all anyone needs to know about the quality of your argument.

If you can't respond with logic and facts throw out something really stupid, that will prove your point.
Wow Joe, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. The guy that tried to equate Gonzaga and Wichita St to Portland, ODU, Ga St, Indian Hills CC and South Alabama is calling 88Pitt88’s logic stupid.

I guess you think Ben DiNucci just traded up also. After all JMU was 14-0 heading into a championship game vs Pitt’s bowl-less 5-7.
 
Traded up? None got an offer from a school in the Top 8 conferences in the nation.


So what you are saying is that we should add your name to the list of people that assume that the name on the front of the jersey determines how good a team is. Got it.

No, Im saying the name on the front of the jersey determines the pool of recruits that you recruit from. These transfers couldn't even get into the pool at any school in the top 8 conferences. They weren't good enough.
 
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