Is JMU ranked using a metric like KenPom ahead of Pitt in football like ODU is ranked ahead of Pitt in basketball?
Winless in ACC
- Thread starter levance2
- Start date
Once again, when the best you can do is make up stupid crap like that to try to make a point it shows the quality of your argument.
I'm still waiting for one of you to actually answer the question that gets right to the heart of the matter. Is ODU better than Pitt right now, or is Pitt better than ODU? If Pitt was playing ODU tomorrow on a neutral court, who would be favored to win the game? I mean I get why none of you will answer the question. If you do you have two choices, to give the obviously correct answer and completely undermine your whole argument or to give the obviously wrong answer in an attempt to not undermine your own argument and make it look like you have no idea at all what you are talking about.
But come on, it's a simple question. Who is better right now, Pitt or ODU? Stop resorting to silly arguments about teams from a completely different level of competition and look at the actual programs in question. Pitt or ODU, which is better?
Just a little perspective being ranked 69th puts you in 11th place in the ACC . Pitt was going nowhere with those players . Maybe they go nowhere with their current roster , but I believe there’s far more potential ( freshmen ) on Pitts current roster then in a long time . Let’s see where Pitt ranks against those programs in a couple of yrs when these kids grow up .
I think you’re the one throwing around the crap Joe. You know full well the discussion herein was whether or not any of these guys traded up or down. I already answered that I could care less who’s better right at this minute, I say they all largely traded down. It just comes down to what you define as trading up or down in the context of a transferring college BB player. I’ve already given you a good description of mine. If you’re moving from an ACC conference, largely considered to be one of the best if not the best conference out there, to any of the conferences they transferred to, you’re trading down, and you are more than likely doing so because the people that matter don’t deem you good enough. I also stated that, if anyone of them felt they were going to get decent playing time at Pitt, they wouldn’t of transferred. And they couldn’t get any other decent offers so they traded down to where they are.
As far as who’s better, Pitt or ODU, I’ll let you know what I think if they play each other. As of now, they have one common opponent, Towson, which they each beat by 3-4 pts. Can’t draw many conclusions from the hodgepodge of ODU’s other opponents relative to who Pitt has played.
You just can't seriously argue ODU is a better program than Pitt. You can't.
And I just think it's pointless to compare just this year, because Stallings wasn't trying to recruit for the best team possible THIS YEAR. He didn't go the Jamie route of plugging in Sterling Smith, Maia, etc, to help us go 4-14 or whatever. We were built with the understanding this was going to be a long year, so there was no point in trying to try for grad transfers or anything.
You are arguing there were better players out there that Stallings chose not to sign? He has 2 JUCOs and 1 grad transfer already on the team.
And we also have 7 true freshman, and no Luther for a while now.
You really can’t say there’s no shred of validity in pittjas’ point unless we’ll, you know, you’re the guy that gives a thumbs up to every negative/critical comment of Pitt posted on this site.
Saying that means that you could care less whether these guys traded up or down. You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that they traded down and simultaneously say that you don't care which team is better right now, because the determining factor as to whether they traded up or down is did they go to a better team or a worse team.
Right now ODU is better than Pitt. By definition, going from a lesser team to a better team is trading up. Whether someone was a better team 10 years ago or 25 years ago or 50 years ago, and whether or not we hope that one team will be better than the other in 3 years or 5 years or 10 years is immaterial to the question at hand. Who is better right now? If you go to a better team you traded up. Of you go to a worse team you traded down.
And if you can't figure out which team is better right now, Pitt or ODU, then perhaps you should stop commenting on basketball, because saying that is the equivalent of saying "I have no idea what I am talking about". Seriously, you can't make a determination as to who is better because they didn't play? Hey, we didn't play Villanova, maybe we are just as good as them. We also didn't play Alabama A&M. Maybe we are as bad as them.
Once again, who was better 10 or 25 or 50 years ago is immaterial to what is happening now. ODU is better right now. If you go to a team that is better you traded up. If you go to a team that is worse you traded down. By definition.
I understand you're looking at this very technically and that's fine.
But find me some kids that would rather go play at ODU than play at Pitt in the ACC and that is what actually matters. That's what trading up or down really means.
Recruits don't look at KenPom when they're deciding. I'm sure Pitt's freshmen are semi-okay with this season because even though they aren't good right now, they're playing in the ACC playing against major teams. That matters.
Although, I do wish you're whole KenPom rankings way was the way players decided, as we would've recruited A LOT better back when Jamie routinely had us in the Top 10 there but no where near the Top 10 recruiting classes.
There are players, dozens and dozens of players, hundreds probably, every single season that go to teams that are further down your theoretically pecking order (or mine) than schools that offered them that are higher up in that order. Because kids look at a whole lot more than what you or I think are team's relative places in the college basketball world to make their decision. If a recruit picks (to make up an example) Pitt over Ohio State that doesn't mean that Pitt is on a higher level than Ohio State any more than if the reverse happened it would be proof that Ohio State is at a higher level.
Kids go to where they go for all sorts of reasons. A school's place in the proverbial pecking order is sometimes important in that decision, and is frequently immaterial. It certainly isn't any definitive statement on where the teams stand in the grand scheme of things. The definitive statement on that is simple, who is better right now.
And for the record, I'll bet if you went and asked ODU's current players if they rather be playing at Pitt right now I think you'd find that almost none of them would want to switch.
And only one of the current roster is....maybe 2. Dixon left a 4-senior class and a guy starting for UNC. KS accomplished nothing with them of note.
You can argue that ODU is a better program than Pitt if you are a complete a$$hole who hates the coach and the program now and is completely butthurt that Dixon is gone. We all know that the same people post the same drivel about Pitt and twist every situation to meet their narrative. If you love Jamie so much, go root for TCU. If it means that much to you to prove that ODU is better than Pitt right now, it is pretty clear what your agenda is. I will gladly place you on ignore with the other simpletons. Why do you guys even give a damn? On second thought, go root for ODU they are much better in your eyes.
I like you Joe because you sure are good for some entertainment with some of your stupid replies where you are actually trying to show how smart you think you are.
Again, thanks for the entertainment. We have another game coming up in less than 2 hrs so time to close the book on this entertaining chapter of ‘Joe knows best ( in his mind only)’.
This year, they are better.
But no matter how many times Joe says it, that still doesn't mean Kitchcart "fell up" or traded up or whatever.
So-
If the team he went to is better than the team he left...
If he’ll have a more realistic chance to win a bunch of games and make the dance the next few years than Pitt.....
It’s yet to be determined if he can see meaningful PT at ODU . If they are a better program he has no chance of PT there . Same for DWilson and Cory M at their bb powerhouses .
I have to side with Pitt being a more attractive choice of where I’d rather play college ball than everywhere all the transfers ended up at except Cam , obviously .
None of these” lessor programs “ are in a total rebuild either .
Exactly my point. You can't compare ODU or a program like that if they are an experienced team with this year's Pitt team and say they are a better program.
I guarentee if it was possible, all of ODU's players and coaches would gladly switch to Pitt to play in the ACC, on TV, nicer facilities, etc.
Are we sure about that?
Two things. First of all, that is almost certainly not the case. You think those guys would trade a spot on a team in a mid-level league that has a real chance to make the NCAA tournament for a team that has a real chance of going 0-18 in conference play? Yeah, sure, you keep telling yourself that. If you repeat it enough times you might even believe it.
Secondly, once again, I am not talking about who was better 10 years ago or 20 years ago or 50 years ago. I'm not talking about who should be better. I'm not talking about who might be better in 5 years or 10 years or 20 years from now. Because none of that, literally none of that, has anything at all to do with who is better right now. And that is all that matters if you are trying to figure out if someone went to a better team right now or not. Right now. Now how it used to be . Not how we hope it will be in the future. Right now. They are better than us right now. If we all close our eyes and pretend that they aren't it still won't make it so.
And that's all that matters if you are trying to figure out if he traded up or not. Literally, that is all you need to know. They are better, By definition, he traded up.
I notice that unlike jas you still don't have the balls to answer the question at the root of the discussion.
No, I'm saying if ODU's whole ENTIRE team and coaches could instead be at Pitt and play in the ACC would they want that?
Yes, they would. They'd want all the opportunities the ACC offers and nicer facilities and so on.
Just like the same could be said if Pitt's entire team could've been playing at Duke or UNC, even in the years Pitt finished better than either of those.
I'd agree with your stance for Grad transfers. They are just looking for one year and who will be best in that one year.
For anyone else, how you've done in the last 5-10 years and thinks like reputation matter. A lot.
I think a lot of our arguments is really just about semantics.
I will say, as someone who actually did play in a major conference before transferring "down" that that was the best decision that I ever made. And I wouldn't have given that up again to go back and play for the worst major conference team in the nation.
So take from that what you will.
So take from that what you will.
Here's some additional info I dug up.
Through the first 5 games, Pitt and 2016 BC actually have the same exact margin of defeat (20.8ppg). BC went on to have 3 games decided by single digits, and the first wasn't until game #11.
Losses
<10: 3
<20: 8
<30: 6
>30: 1
For those that insist this is a necessary bump toward an NIT and NCAA future, BC is still BC, and their records under Jim Christian are 4-14, 0-18, 2-16, 2-3 (projected 7-11). I don't expect Pitt fans would be happy with that trajectory.
Through the first 5 games, Pitt and 2016 BC actually have the same exact margin of defeat (20.8ppg). BC went on to have 3 games decided by single digits, and the first wasn't until game #11.
Losses
<10: 3
<20: 8
<30: 6
>30: 1
For those that insist this is a necessary bump toward an NIT and NCAA future, BC is still BC, and their records under Jim Christian are 4-14, 0-18, 2-16, 2-3 (projected 7-11). I don't expect Pitt fans would be happy with that trajectory.
And this has really been my biggest concern all along. With the current level of recruiting i just don't see enough to climb above that 4,5, or 6 win conference team. There are other consistently bad teams like BC in other conferences that never make it over the hump. Just because we have a young team you can't just assume that each year they're just going to get better and eventually that leads to an tourney bid. We need more talent. A class headlined by Golden and Kingsby aren't going to do it.
The narrative when KS was hired was that no matter what other faults he might have we were going to see a big uptick in recruiting. Maybe in the spring he lands a big fish to close out this class but if he doesn't i don't understand how anyone can see a clear path to success.
Yeah, and BC is only going to win as many as they are this year because of Ky Bowman and we haven't landed anyone of that caliber yet.
Good for them.
Here are their shooting percentages from last season:
Milligan .280 .327 .875
Nix .375 .000 .692
Wilson .258 .000 .583
Kithcart .304 .190 .318
Manigault .263 .000 .625
It is yet to be determined if Kithcart plays one minute of one game for ODU.
Last edited:
