WRESTLING- PITT vs PENN STATE ........
- Thread starter goalieman
- Start date
TRIB article in today's paper about the upcoming match .......
see link .....
http://triblive.com/sports/college/pennstate/5182081-74/state-megaludis-zanetta#axzz2mtKmI1PG
see link .....
http://triblive.com/sports/college/pennstate/5182081-74/state-megaludis-zanetta#axzz2mtKmI1PG
Re: Is there any broadcast of this match ? *
Ugh - he's not out there? He did get slammed hard by Sheptock Friday towards the end of their match.
This post was edited on 12/8 2:25 PM by singregardless
Ugh - he's not out there? He did get slammed hard by Sheptock Friday towards the end of their match.
This post was edited on 12/8 2:25 PM by singregardless
thanks for updates goalieman following them on twitter but the overall score isn't given amidst all the other tweets
Biggest surprise so far this year: Mack.
Biggest disappointment: Zanetta.
By my count, PSU wrestled at least 4 of their backups, including a backup for Ruth, who still is suspended. Of course, it could be the starters are injured, like Thom is for us at 184.
Pretty clear that we got the wrong Sheptock. We would be very solid when healthy with the other one. Would have to switch some guys around but that is normal in wrestling. Hard to believe Sheptock has beaten out Garbinsky, or is he still suspended?
Biggest disappointment: Zanetta.
By my count, PSU wrestled at least 4 of their backups, including a backup for Ruth, who still is suspended. Of course, it could be the starters are injured, like Thom is for us at 184.
Pretty clear that we got the wrong Sheptock. We would be very solid when healthy with the other one. Would have to switch some guys around but that is normal in wrestling. Hard to believe Sheptock has beaten out Garbinsky, or is he still suspended?
One or both of the Altons seems to always be recovering from an injury or academically suspended. They were supposed to be the gems of Sanderson's early classes, and instead have been the lumps of coal. So, them being out and Ruth being suspended pretty much accounts for why the backups wrestled.
I take it Cody's injury is pretty serious, so I assume he will redshirt, along with Solomon and the younger Zanetta. If Marstellar hadn't switched his commitment to Oklahoma State, Cody could have wrestled him for 4 years.
I take it Cody's injury is pretty serious, so I assume he will redshirt, along with Solomon and the younger Zanetta. If Marstellar hadn't switched his commitment to Oklahoma State, Cody could have wrestled him for 4 years.
ATTENDANCE RECORD ........
The Pitt vs Penn State wrestling match had an attendance of 15,996 which set an NCAA record for attendance at a wrestling dual meet and set a Bryce Jordan Center record for attendance in any sport !!
Pitt and Penn State are rivals.
The Pitt vs Penn State wrestling match had an attendance of 15,996 which set an NCAA record for attendance at a wrestling dual meet and set a Bryce Jordan Center record for attendance in any sport !!
Pitt and Penn State are rivals.
They outperformed what I'd thought they'd do in most ways - starters or no.
Shelton steadied things - something you love when a senior does - beating a former PA state champion. Mikey - haha. What a showman. He's a smart kid on the mat, but it just smacks you immediately how far from his ceiling he is when you see him. People may attempt to minimize these wins, but winning under their specific circumstances in THAT setting matters. It does.
Bright & Bonnacorsi did not look out of place, which was a welcomed surprise. Tyler did better today then he did in May at Aiscs vs. Brown - this is something he can use on his march to his first all-american nod and beyond.
Shelton steadied things - something you love when a senior does - beating a former PA state champion. Mikey - haha. What a showman. He's a smart kid on the mat, but it just smacks you immediately how far from his ceiling he is when you see him. People may attempt to minimize these wins, but winning under their specific circumstances in THAT setting matters. It does.
Bright & Bonnacorsi did not look out of place, which was a welcomed surprise. Tyler did better today then he did in May at Aiscs vs. Brown - this is something he can use on his march to his first all-american nod and beyond.
I watched the match on the Big Ten network on Tuesday. My thoughts:
1. The longest we rode any PSU wrestler was 27 seconds by Zanetta. The next longest was 11 seconds. Our guys need to learn how to ride and how to escape. PSU was really tough when they were on top. Really, the matches at 141 and 197 were decided by the marked difference in abolity on top. The one PSU wrestler who let his man go fairly easily was Taylor, but my sense was that if he didn't think he could get a pin from the position he was in, he would let Morelli go and then take him down again.
2. Zanetta. I really expected more from him. It was one of the many matches which was close until the third period, which PSU dominated.
3. Mack. Very solid.
4. Bright. Totally ran out of gas in the third period. Never came close to an escape and Retherford just rode him out to win the match. Hopefully, he ran out of gas because he was injured early in the season and expended a lot of energy Friday night against the ranked wrestler from Maryland who he beat. I think he has more potential than Retherford, who to me lacks quickness and explosiveness.
5. Mikey. What can you say? He pins the kid with 7 seconds left after a scramble with a move that came out of nowhere. Big upside.
6. Sheptock. We need Garbinsky back.
7. Morelli. Hard to judge anyone when they wrestle Taylor.
8. Wilps. Disappointing. Didn't take a single shot until the last 20 seconds. Brown kept getting him with the same move time after time. He managed to avoid the takedown half the time but when a guy takes you down, or comes close to doing so, 7 times with the same single leg move on your left ankle, you need to have a better defense to counter it. Even better, have a move you can make to score off of it.
9. Rothwell. I hope he's not on scholarship.
10. Bonnacorsi. Good match. I thought the clasped hands call which sent it to OT was iffy. Again, disappointed by his lack of aggressiveness. McIntosh took a very bad shot with about 30 seconds left in the 3rd where he was open to being taken down and Bonnacorsi didn't even try.
11. PJ. What can you say? He tried but he is just too small. Rizzo will be a major upgrade in January and PJ can fill in at 174-197 if there are injuries.
1. The longest we rode any PSU wrestler was 27 seconds by Zanetta. The next longest was 11 seconds. Our guys need to learn how to ride and how to escape. PSU was really tough when they were on top. Really, the matches at 141 and 197 were decided by the marked difference in abolity on top. The one PSU wrestler who let his man go fairly easily was Taylor, but my sense was that if he didn't think he could get a pin from the position he was in, he would let Morelli go and then take him down again.
2. Zanetta. I really expected more from him. It was one of the many matches which was close until the third period, which PSU dominated.
3. Mack. Very solid.
4. Bright. Totally ran out of gas in the third period. Never came close to an escape and Retherford just rode him out to win the match. Hopefully, he ran out of gas because he was injured early in the season and expended a lot of energy Friday night against the ranked wrestler from Maryland who he beat. I think he has more potential than Retherford, who to me lacks quickness and explosiveness.
5. Mikey. What can you say? He pins the kid with 7 seconds left after a scramble with a move that came out of nowhere. Big upside.
6. Sheptock. We need Garbinsky back.
7. Morelli. Hard to judge anyone when they wrestle Taylor.
8. Wilps. Disappointing. Didn't take a single shot until the last 20 seconds. Brown kept getting him with the same move time after time. He managed to avoid the takedown half the time but when a guy takes you down, or comes close to doing so, 7 times with the same single leg move on your left ankle, you need to have a better defense to counter it. Even better, have a move you can make to score off of it.
9. Rothwell. I hope he's not on scholarship.
10. Bonnacorsi. Good match. I thought the clasped hands call which sent it to OT was iffy. Again, disappointed by his lack of aggressiveness. McIntosh took a very bad shot with about 30 seconds left in the 3rd where he was open to being taken down and Bonnacorsi didn't even try.
11. PJ. What can you say? He tried but he is just too small. Rizzo will be a major upgrade in January and PJ can fill in at 174-197 if there are injuries.
I agree with most of this.
Overall, the team has really improved their top work over the past few seasons, but it has seemed to disappear this year. I think the large amount of young guys in the lineup really has a lot to do with this.
125:Zanetta hasnt wrestled to expectations thus far this season. Now losing to Megaludis is nothing to be ashamed of, but Z wrestled Nicos match. Tie up and do nothing. Z is a high-pace wrestler and he is not good when he gets slogged down into the one-takedown matches like this. He is a little bit of a head-case; if he didnt put so much pressure on himself and opened up like we have seen him do in the past then he is an easy All-American. Wrestling like this he might not make the podium, which would be a shame considering what caliber wrestler, worker and person the kid is.
133:Shelton has wrestled really well following the Clarion Open tournament. He is another wrestler I would really like to see open up more though. When he made R12 at Nationals two years ago, he was constantly moving, faking and shooting, and guys couldnt keep up. Now, he is content to score one double leg a match and win. IMO, he is at his best when he is constantly attacking.
141/149:Bright is going to be scary good when he finds his gas tank. He did miss some time early w/ injuries and off the mat stuff, so I think he is still finding his groove. When Mikey supplements his great scrambling ability with some actual moves, he is going to be very tough to beat.
157:Garbo's ability to score points will be a huge upgrade over Sheptock when he gets back into the lineup. Sheptock has terrific defense, but I dont know if he has scored a takedown yet in a dual meet.
165: Morelli: Like Sheptock, he has a lot of upside but needs to be more active. Obviously you cant judge anyone against Taylor, but he just doesnt do much on his feet even though he is a fairly athletic wrestler.
174:Thought Wilps and Brown would be more competitive. This is the first time where you could tell Tyler was up a weight class, Brown is huge (and he is like 26 years old or something).
197:Thought Bono shot a lot more at 174. He should have won that match, the locked hands was bogus, but still he got an easy takedown at the beginning of the match and then make a serious attempt after.
285: This is where I disagree with you. I have read the various posts about Rizzo. Kid is a legit recruit and a solid heavy. But why is everyone so quick to think he will be better than Tasser? Because he is bigger? Because he won 3 state titles?
We are talking about a guy who hasnt been on a mat in at least 8 months, who is not in wrestling shape and has not been exposed to college wrestling yet. And everybody wants him to get adjusted and get in shape and be a top 15 wrestler right out of the shute? I dont think so. Tasser just took a former All-American to double ot and got screwed by the ref, then turned around and lost on a last second takedown to the No12 guy in the country, who didnt do anything the entire match.
Rizzo is by all means the jewel of next years recruiting class. I have no doubt that he could be a very good heavy. The Pitt coaches have a great track record with heavies over the past few years - Scheaffer, Tomei, Thomusseit, Tasser. But just because he was successful in hs doesnt mean anything. If he had been on campus since July like the rest of the freshman then he would probably be starting by now. But dont discount the learning curve of a college wrestling room. Its naive to think he will come in and dominate; you need more than a blast double to win at heavyweight in college.
To illustrate my point better: both Lehigh heavies PJ beat were considered blue-chip recruits. Wessell was even a junior national champ in judo as well. Emerick from Lock Haven was the PA hs Schalles winner last season, went undefeated and pinned like 36 of 42 wrestlers at heavy. Tasser has beat all three. Heavyweight is probably the hardest weight class to predict college success based on hs school accolades, because most heavies in hs dont know how to wrestle. In college, everybody can.
Overall, the team has really improved their top work over the past few seasons, but it has seemed to disappear this year. I think the large amount of young guys in the lineup really has a lot to do with this.
125:Zanetta hasnt wrestled to expectations thus far this season. Now losing to Megaludis is nothing to be ashamed of, but Z wrestled Nicos match. Tie up and do nothing. Z is a high-pace wrestler and he is not good when he gets slogged down into the one-takedown matches like this. He is a little bit of a head-case; if he didnt put so much pressure on himself and opened up like we have seen him do in the past then he is an easy All-American. Wrestling like this he might not make the podium, which would be a shame considering what caliber wrestler, worker and person the kid is.
133:Shelton has wrestled really well following the Clarion Open tournament. He is another wrestler I would really like to see open up more though. When he made R12 at Nationals two years ago, he was constantly moving, faking and shooting, and guys couldnt keep up. Now, he is content to score one double leg a match and win. IMO, he is at his best when he is constantly attacking.
141/149:Bright is going to be scary good when he finds his gas tank. He did miss some time early w/ injuries and off the mat stuff, so I think he is still finding his groove. When Mikey supplements his great scrambling ability with some actual moves, he is going to be very tough to beat.
157:Garbo's ability to score points will be a huge upgrade over Sheptock when he gets back into the lineup. Sheptock has terrific defense, but I dont know if he has scored a takedown yet in a dual meet.
165: Morelli: Like Sheptock, he has a lot of upside but needs to be more active. Obviously you cant judge anyone against Taylor, but he just doesnt do much on his feet even though he is a fairly athletic wrestler.
174:Thought Wilps and Brown would be more competitive. This is the first time where you could tell Tyler was up a weight class, Brown is huge (and he is like 26 years old or something).
197:Thought Bono shot a lot more at 174. He should have won that match, the locked hands was bogus, but still he got an easy takedown at the beginning of the match and then make a serious attempt after.
285: This is where I disagree with you. I have read the various posts about Rizzo. Kid is a legit recruit and a solid heavy. But why is everyone so quick to think he will be better than Tasser? Because he is bigger? Because he won 3 state titles?
We are talking about a guy who hasnt been on a mat in at least 8 months, who is not in wrestling shape and has not been exposed to college wrestling yet. And everybody wants him to get adjusted and get in shape and be a top 15 wrestler right out of the shute? I dont think so. Tasser just took a former All-American to double ot and got screwed by the ref, then turned around and lost on a last second takedown to the No12 guy in the country, who didnt do anything the entire match.
Rizzo is by all means the jewel of next years recruiting class. I have no doubt that he could be a very good heavy. The Pitt coaches have a great track record with heavies over the past few years - Scheaffer, Tomei, Thomusseit, Tasser. But just because he was successful in hs doesnt mean anything. If he had been on campus since July like the rest of the freshman then he would probably be starting by now. But dont discount the learning curve of a college wrestling room. Its naive to think he will come in and dominate; you need more than a blast double to win at heavyweight in college.
To illustrate my point better: both Lehigh heavies PJ beat were considered blue-chip recruits. Wessell was even a junior national champ in judo as well. Emerick from Lock Haven was the PA hs Schalles winner last season, went undefeated and pinned like 36 of 42 wrestlers at heavy. Tasser has beat all three. Heavyweight is probably the hardest weight class to predict college success based on hs school accolades, because most heavies in hs dont know how to wrestle. In college, everybody can.
I didn't know PA has a trophy named after Shalles. With due respect to Taylor, he was the best pinner I ever have seen. Really used one move, a cradle, 90% of the time, but when he got it the match was over. I never saw anyone he couldn't pin. Amazing thing to me was that in HS he lost twice to John Chapman, who wrestled at Pitt and never was a factor nationally.
I don't expect Rizzo to be dominant, or even to start, in January. I said as much in an earlier post. My hope would be he is ready by tourney time. Just like Thom last year, PJ uses speed to make up for his weight differential. But he is a good 20 pounds lighter than Thom was. He has done well in duals, but I think his lack of weight will kill him in the NCAAs. He will get worn down having to wrestle two matches a day. I'm wondering whether when Rizzo is in shape, Wilps, Thom and Bono can't move down a weight and have PJ wrestle at 197. I'm assuming he is better than Morelli and Cody is being redshirted with his injury. I assume they also are redshirting Solomon.
We seem to be jinxed with lightweights redshirting a year. I remember when Rob Loper was the top 123/126 pounder coming out of HS in Erie. He was an All-American at least twice and then took a redshirt to prepare for the Olympic Trials. Didn't make the team and never was as good after he came back. I really thought Zanetta would be top 2 or 3 at 125 this year. But he showed little quickness or aggressiveness against Nico.
I don't expect Rizzo to be dominant, or even to start, in January. I said as much in an earlier post. My hope would be he is ready by tourney time. Just like Thom last year, PJ uses speed to make up for his weight differential. But he is a good 20 pounds lighter than Thom was. He has done well in duals, but I think his lack of weight will kill him in the NCAAs. He will get worn down having to wrestle two matches a day. I'm wondering whether when Rizzo is in shape, Wilps, Thom and Bono can't move down a weight and have PJ wrestle at 197. I'm assuming he is better than Morelli and Cody is being redshirted with his injury. I assume they also are redshirting Solomon.
We seem to be jinxed with lightweights redshirting a year. I remember when Rob Loper was the top 123/126 pounder coming out of HS in Erie. He was an All-American at least twice and then took a redshirt to prepare for the Olympic Trials. Didn't make the team and never was as good after he came back. I really thought Zanetta would be top 2 or 3 at 125 this year. But he showed little quickness or aggressiveness against Nico.
I'm not sure that Chapman ever beat Schalles ...... I think they wrestled once in high school and that was in the 1969 Pa. State High School Wrestling Finals and Schalles pinned Chapman (Schalles was a senior and Chapman a junior and Chapman the defending state champion)..... I think they may have wrestled once or twice in college and Schalles won..... correct me if I'm wrong, thom67.
I am pretty sure that is correct. I saw Shalles pin Chapman in state finals. Chapman was winning and in controll, but Shalles just turned him and match over. In college the matches were not that close. Chapman gased in those matches. Of course Chapman never did much in college, wrestled like he didn't care. Chapman was one of the best HS wrestlers I have seen.
I saw Schalles wrestle in high school as his high school wrestled my high school and were in the same district. Schalles only won one PIAA State Wrestling Championship. He was good but really got a lot better between his junior and senior year of high school and then continued to get better at Clarion University. He became probably the greatest "pinner" in college wrestling.
I saw Schalles wrestle Chapman in college at the Pitt Field House and Schalles totally dominated. You're right that Chapman never came close to his potential in college.
This post was edited on 12/14 11:24 PM by goalieman
I saw Schalles wrestle Chapman in college at the Pitt Field House and Schalles totally dominated. You're right that Chapman never came close to his potential in college.
This post was edited on 12/14 11:24 PM by goalieman
Mike - Yes, one of the wrestling publications awards names a Schalles winner to the highest percentage of pins in matches. Emerick was something like 36 our of 42 maybe? Haines finished second and PSU superfrosh Zain Retherford was third.
In terms of bumping down, that is not a possibility. Rankings, RPI and win percentage AT A CERTAIN WEIGHT all are considered when earning NCAA tournament bids. So if Tyler decides to drop to 165, essentially he is back at match 1 for qualification purposes. They could all still bump down and wrestle, but it would take away the safety net of earning an At Large bid if something were to go wrong at the ACC tournament.
Correct me if Im wrong, but this is Rizzo's first year in college? If it is his first, then he will still have four years of wrestling eligibility after this season. Why burn a year for the end of season tournament when he might not be any better than what we have currently?
If they were unwilling to burn Zanetta's redshirt last season when it was clear that 125 was a black hole - and IMO, with Z in the lineup they could have had the best lineups in recent seasons - I dont think there is any way that they would waste a year of Rizzo's eligibility and development for the end of the season.
In terms of bumping down, that is not a possibility. Rankings, RPI and win percentage AT A CERTAIN WEIGHT all are considered when earning NCAA tournament bids. So if Tyler decides to drop to 165, essentially he is back at match 1 for qualification purposes. They could all still bump down and wrestle, but it would take away the safety net of earning an At Large bid if something were to go wrong at the ACC tournament.
Correct me if Im wrong, but this is Rizzo's first year in college? If it is his first, then he will still have four years of wrestling eligibility after this season. Why burn a year for the end of season tournament when he might not be any better than what we have currently?
If they were unwilling to burn Zanetta's redshirt last season when it was clear that 125 was a black hole - and IMO, with Z in the lineup they could have had the best lineups in recent seasons - I dont think there is any way that they would waste a year of Rizzo's eligibility and development for the end of the season.
I knew Chapman when he was at Pitt. He told me that he beat Schalles twice when he was a soph and Schalles was a junior in HS, but lost to him in the PIAA tourney when Schalles was a senior and he was a junior. He said he got careless. He didn't say he got pinned, but that was what Schalles did to almost everyone so that doesn't surprise me.
I did not follow HS wrestling back then so I don't know if what Chapman told me was true. I know John was not even close to being the wrestler Schalles was in college. I went to the NCAAs at College Park, MD, and Schalles was the most dominant wrestler I ever have seen in a tourney. He pinned everyone and pinned most of them in the first period. I think that was the same tourney where the guy who had given Dan Gable his only loss was wrestling.
I did not follow HS wrestling back then so I don't know if what Chapman told me was true. I know John was not even close to being the wrestler Schalles was in college. I went to the NCAAs at College Park, MD, and Schalles was the most dominant wrestler I ever have seen in a tourney. He pinned everyone and pinned most of them in the first period. I think that was the same tourney where the guy who had given Dan Gable his only loss was wrestling.
Larry Owings from the University of Washington was the guy who beat Gable. That match was at Northwestern. At Maryland, Owings lost in the finals to Tom Milkovich of Michigan State. I saw both of those NCAA tournaments. And yes, Schalles was dominating at Maryland. He just flattened a guy from Michigan in the finals.
