WVU and a Brown out?

Oct 25, 2021
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I think the the system is fine if they had a QB and some WRs.

The Wayne pass was asinine. Now do the other 8 turnovers, or did you just single that one out because it was a ridiculous play call?
I mentioned three, so not sure how that's "singling" one out. Wayne pass and two ridiculous route tress that had multiple guys in the same spot (Louisville and Syracuse).

And I'm glad you think he runs a good system and you, presumably, think he does a good job teaching and implementing it. Not many others think that, as evidenced by his employment history.
 

recruitsreadtheseboards

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Per David Hale, we had the 6th highest success rate of any team in the country. Typically when you dominate a team like that, you win by 30+ points. Against Louisville, we had the highest success rate of any team that lost. Pretty sure we had the highest, or close to it, success rate of any team that lost against Georgia Tech.

Thus, you can't convince me that this is a talent issue as much as it is an issue of playing a style of football that allows for much worse teams to stick around in games.
People overlook TO margin.

Pitt has a minus 5 TO margin differential. Other teams with a minus 5 or worse:
WVU
Arizona
Nebraska
the U
Auburn
Va Tech
BC
Northwestern
Colorado
and such.

Teams with a positive 5 TO Margin or better include:
USC
tOSU
Ga Tech (yeah surprised at this also but we helped this stat)
K State
Michigan
Duke
Utah
Illinois
Kansas

So I think this helps explains why some teams are a disappointment and others a positive surprising season.
 
Oct 25, 2021
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People overlook TO margin.

Pitt has a minus 5 TO margin differential. Other teams with a minus 5 or worse:
WVU
Arizona
Nebraska
the U
Auburn
Va Tech
BC
Northwestern
Colorado
and such.

Teams with a positive 5 TO Margin or better include:
USC
tOSU
Ga Tech (yeah surprised at this also but we helped this stat)
K State
Michigan
Duke
Utah
Illinois
Kansas

So I think this helps explains why some teams are a disappointment and others a positive surprising season.

I'ts undoubtedly been a problem. But I hear a lot of criticism of Whipple for his first two years, despite the fact that he inherited a much worse offense and had to contend with the highest drop rate in the country. So it either all falls on the coordinator or it doesn't. We also won the turnover margin against a bad WVU team and still barely won the game. It certainly hasn't been the only issue.

My problem is that when you're putting together 10 - 15 play drives, yeah... turnovers are going to happen. There are way more opportunities to make mistakes than if you're getting chunk yardage and scoring in 6-8 plays. That's been my problem all year. We are winning the success rate and still losing the games because we don't operate efficiently. Miami was doing the same exact thing early on in the season.
 

Gunga_Galunga

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Because Cignetti blows.

Because we're allowing teams that should have been buried beneath the shit heap before halftime to stick around in games (including Western Michigan and Virginia Tech in the 4th quarter; I'm not just talking about the losses).

Because, with our starting tailback out, only two wide receivers even had a target this past Saturday, and an anemic offense that mustered 145 total yards had a chance to tie the game on its final possession.

Because I am sick of watching guys who don't even know where to line up, and that's on the coaching.
And your solution is to replace Cignetti with a scrub air raid OC. Makes sense... if you're into ill-advised, emotional, knee jerk decisions.

I get that you're turning this into a referendum on Cignetti now, because there's no way anyone (besides you, FredoHeisman8, and SMF) could think Harrell would be a fantastic hire at Pitt.
 
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And your solution is to replace Cignetti with a scrub air raid OC. Makes sense... if you're into ill-advised, emotional, knee jerk decisions.

I get that you're turning this into a referendum on Cignetti now, because there's no way anyone (besides you, FredoHeisman8, and SMF) could think Harrell would be a fantastic hire at Pitt.

He's 37 and has done fairly well. He wouldn't even be my first choice or anything, but I'd absolutely take him in lieu of Cignetti. What is your fascination with defending this dude? BC fans hated him. Has anyone ever liked him? The dude has pretty much sucked everywhere he's been. You can't call anyone else a scrub and then defend him, because that's an immediate credibility dismissal.
 

TD_6082

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I mentioned three, so not sure how that's "singling" one out. Wayne pass and two ridiculous route tress that had multiple guys in the same spot (Louisville and Syracuse).

And I'm glad you think he runs a good system and you, presumably, think he does a good job teaching and implementing it. Not many others think that, as evidenced by his employment history.

His employment history is fine. He's proven to be a quality coordinator. His employment history is pretty much on par with most college OCs.

Didn't Josh Gattis win the Broyles award last year?
 

Gunga_Galunga

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He's 37 and has done fairly well. He wouldn't even be my first choice or anything, but I'd absolutely take him in lieu of Cignetti. What is your fascination with defending this dude? BC fans hated him. Has anyone ever liked him? The dude has pretty much sucked everywhere he's been. You can't call anyone else a scrub and then defend him, because that's an immediate credibility dismissal.
Saying Harrell would be a bad hire has nothing to do with Cignetti. In fact, I haven't defended him anywhere in this thread. You're looney dude.
 
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Saying Harrell would be a bad hire has nothing to do with Cignetti. In fact, I haven't defended him anywhere in this thread. You're looney dude.

I mean, you've defended him plenty of other times. Did I need to see it specifically in this thread to know your stance on ole Frank?
 

Gunga_Galunga

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I mean, you've defended him plenty of other times. Did I need to see it specifically in this thread to know your stance on ole Frank?
I've consistently pointed out there are many problems, and firing ole Frank isn't going to fix them with a snap of the finger. Don't confuse that with your over emotional torch and pitchfork mentality.

It's the same mentality I had towards Whipple. There were several issues in early Whipple, including Kenny, but everyone blamed Whipple and wanted him fired. I'm sure you had the torch and pitchfork out for Whip under one of your old aliases.
 
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TD_6082

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He's 37 and has done fairly well. He wouldn't even be my first choice or anything, but I'd absolutely take him in lieu of Cignetti. What is your fascination with defending this dude? BC fans hated him. Has anyone ever liked him? The dude has pretty much sucked everywhere he's been. You can't call anyone else a scrub and then defend him, because that's an immediate credibility dismissal.

Does any fan base ever like their OC?

Has BC been a lot more productive since he left?
 
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Does any fan base ever like their OC?

Has BC been a lot more productive since he left?

BC is down like 7 o-linemen from last season (5 to graduation and 2 to injury) and playing multiple converted d-linemen. They probably have the worst o-line in the P5.
 

HailtoPitt

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Cignetti's most recent gigs as OC before Pitt:

Boston College total offense:
2021 - 106th in the country
2020 - 70th in the country

Boston College scoring offense:
2021 - 96th in the country
2020 - 65th in the country

St Louis Rams total offense
2015 - 297.6 ypg (dead last in the NFL)

St Louis Rams scoring offense
2015 - 17.5 ppg (29th in the league)

And you love that hire. So why would you dislike a guy who performed better than Cignetti in each of those years?

Weird that you're crediting USC's win/loss record to the offensive coordinator. He average more yards per game and points per game than Cignetti's mighty BC squad in those years. Is it possible that USC's defense (98th in the country in points allowed last season) might have been the problem? Efficiency is really what matters, though.

BC 2020 - 54
BC 2021 - 93

USC 2020 - 41
USC 2021 - 44

And don't give me the Jurkovec excuse, because he blows.

Or, you know, we could just look at this year:

Scoring offense:
WVU - 45
Pitt 67

Total offense:
WVU - 56
Pitt 65

So, basically, any fact points to Harrell being the better coordinator, and you still manage to come up with a BS spin on reality. Telling.

He just needs more time!
 
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I've consistently pointed out there are many problems, and firing ole Frank isn't going to fix them with a snap of the finger. Don't confuse that with your over emotional torch and pitchfork mentality.

It's the same mentality I had towards Whipple. There were several issues in early Whipple, including Kenny, but everyone blamed Whipple and wanted him fired. I'm sure you had the torch and pitchfork out for Whip under one of your old aliases.

Not at all. I put the blame on the o-line and the receivers in '19 and '20. I liked what he did with Isabella and that tight end at Umass. My only complaint was the running to the sidelines thing, which I still don't like.

I've also been a Whipple defender because of how much better I watched Pickett get every year under his tutelage.
 

TD_6082

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Not at all. I put the blame on the o-line and the receivers in '19 and '20. I liked what he did with Isabella and that tight end at Umass. My only complaint was the running to the sidelines thing, which I still don't like.

I've also been a Whipple defender because of how much better I watched Pickett get every year under his tutelage.

What's Whipple's deal at Nebraska? Why does his offense suck?
 
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What's Whipple's deal at Nebraska? Why does his offense suck?

No idea. But they went from 79th in scoring to 83rd. Pitt went from 6th to 64th, so there's that. Obviously the personnel factors into it, but as I've said... the. players. don't. like. playing. in. this. offense. We have way more talent on offense than the stats we're putting up.

You guys like to call Pitt fans whiners, but it's kind of ironic how you crap on a guy who helped give us our best season in 40 years and develop our QB into a 1st rounder and then defend a guy who has us defecating on ourselves almost weekly and has taken a fairly successful QB and turned him into a deer in headlights.

It's also my understanding that Whipple's offense is fairly complex in comparison to most and offers quite a bit of route flexibility that requires the QB and receivers to be on the same page, so I questioned the Nebraska hire from the beginning.
 

pittdan77

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Remember that gem from last week? This is why I sometimes think you're behind the SMF account.

Why can't both be true? Those statements aren't mutually exclusive at all. I don't think we're the Greatest Show on Turf from a talent standpoint, but we've been abysmal in ACC play, and I think we should be doing better. It's a multi-faceted problem, and I stand by Mumpfield and Bartholomew being better than this offense is allowing them to be.

10 on Louisville and 17 on Syracuse could have easily been 24 and 30 with this talent. Even those totals wouldn't have been anything special. I don't think we have to be a bottom 3 or 4 offense in the ACC with the current personnel... which isn't to say we don't need more talent, also.
 

pittdan77

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Why can't both be true? Those statements aren't mutually exclusive at all. I don't think we're the Greatest Show on Turf from a talent standpoint, but we've been abysmal in ACC play, and I think we should be doing better. It's a multi-faceted problem, and I stand by Mumpfield and Bartholomew being better than this offense is allowing them to be.

10 on Louisville and 17 on Syracuse could have easily been 24 and 30 with this talent. Even those totals wouldn't have been anything special. I don't think we have to be a bottom 3 or 4 offense in the ACC with the current personnel... which isn't to say we don't need more talent, also.
So the talent on offense isn't good enough but it is good enough to be winning but it's also the OC's fault that the suspect talent that isn't quite good enough isn't good enough to win but it was good enough last year. Got it.
 
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So the talent on offense isn't good enough but it is good enough to be winning but it's also the OC's fault that the suspect talent that isn't quite good enough isn't good enough to win but it was good enough last year. Got it.

It's not good enough to be a great college football offense. And you almost need to be that if you want to do what we did last season (I do).

It's a little better than to score 10 against Louisville, 17 against Syracuse, 7 against GT in non-garbage time, and 24 against a historically bad UNC defense (24 is how many Florida A&M scored against them while missing 20 players).

Lots of middle ground to be had in there, PittDan.
 

pittdan77

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It's not good enough to be a great college football offense. And you almost need to be that if you want to do what we did last season (I do).

It's a little better than to score 10 against Louisville, 17 against Syracuse, 7 against GT in non-garbage time, and 24 against a historically bad UNC defense (24 is how many Florida A&M scored against them while missing 20 players).

Lots of middle ground to be had in there, PittDan.
Sure there is but you're kind of claiming all of it. Might just be as simple as the QB position is underperforming so badly, Pitt is fortunate it can run the ball with some consistency.
 
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Probably an undervalued comment when you consider the perception of the program in their own eyes versus how the rest of the world views them.
The Dude’s minions will be here in 3 2 1 to say the negotiations with Saban are taking a little longer so WVU has delayed the Brown announcement, and oh yeah, the NCAA is counting game 1 as a WVU win … 😏
 
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recruitsreadtheseboards

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So......Wisconsin, Nebraska, Auburn, GT jobs are open. I would think those 4 would be ahead of WVU in interest. Colorado is open also. Not sure what else will open and of course the boomerang jobs from coaches shuffling. I would not want to be looking for a coach right now.
 

Gunga_Galunga

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In the contract obtained by the Daily Athenaeum through the Freedom of Information Act, it states that if Brown is fired before January 1st, 2023, WVU will owe him approximately $20 million. If they wait until after that date, the buyout drops to approximately $16.7 million.

He probably wants fired to get the hell out of Morgantown.
 
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If only they would have known ahead of time that they were going to have five offensive linemen graduate they could have prepared for it.

Alas, no such luck apparently.

Well we know we're losing Kancey, Baldonado, and Alexandre. But there's only so much a school on Pitt's level can do to "prepare" for that. And their two best o-linemen this year are hurt/out on top of all that.
 

DruidTM

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He’s not getting fired…. At least I’m not believing it till it actually happens… WVU isn’t some SEC big dog….
 

DruidTM

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In the contract obtained by the Daily Athenaeum through the Freedom of Information Act, it states that if Brown is fired before January 1st, 2023, WVU will owe him approximately $20 million. If they wait until after that date, the buyout drops to approximately $16.7 million.

He probably wants fired to get the hell out of Morgantown.
It would be awesome if Browns agent is leaking the “info”… maybe a relative is…? Maybe Brown himself? Lol 😂
 

DruidTM

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BC is down like 7 o-linemen from last season (5 to graduation and 2 to injury) and playing multiple converted d-linemen. They probably have the worst o-line in the P5.
In all fairness I’m not sure PITT has had the same Oline for a complete game let alone two consecutive games all season. That’s why this “returned Senior OL” thing is bunk.
 
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In all fairness I’m not sure PITT has had the same Oline for a complete game let alone two consecutive games all season. That’s why this “returned Senior OL” thing is bunk.

They've been doing a lot of voluntary rotations, too. I assume to throw certain guys a bone so they're not entering the transfer portal after the season.
 

joeydavid

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In all fairness I’m not sure PITT has had the same Oline for a complete game let alone two consecutive games all season. That’s why this “returned Senior OL” thing is bunk.

The starting 5 won't have a single snap together this year.
 

pittdan77

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The Dude’s minions will be here in 3 2 1 to say the negotiations with Saban are taking a little longer so WVU has delayed the Brown announcement, and oh yeah, the NCAA is counting game 1 as a WVU win … 😏
Nah, they get real quiet when things go south. Don't worry. They'll be here in June to tell us they're blowing Pitt out and winning the Big12, which incidentally is the toughest conference to win.
 
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