Young NFL QBs

[thebadby2]

Not yet! Great situation???

Both. He's very good and in a great situation. People seem to refuse to believe what their eyeballs tell them about Purdy--that he's very good--just because of his draft status.

Three of the most important factors in football success at the high levels are (1) the OC , (2) the GM and (3) the team culture. This is a huge reason why the Detroit Lions went form the most pathetic franchise in NFL history to a Super Bowl odds favorite in a couple of years time.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Not yet! Great situation???

i think it's both.. Very disingenious (and yes, i know im misspelling that word) to give the credit to the system and the coaching staff and not giving Purdy any credit.. You put 90% of these first or second year QBs in the same situation and not for one second to i believe the success is duplicated..

yes, it's a great system with weapons at wr and rb but that's football, put good players in good systems. Dont understand why people use that as a knock on the player. If you dont have a good system or talent around you, you arent going to succeed, no matter who you are.

On the flip side, i do believe a lot of these QB's failures go down to being rushed into a situation before they are ready. playing in one read college systems with little if any actual intelligence needed then going to the nfl and starting in week 2 or 3 and being asked to succeed immediately is just not going to happen.

and we automatically call them a bust when in reality, the failure is much more on the organization and coaching staff.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I'd say the number is closer to 5. And if you don't have one of them, you're pissing in the wind.

steelers dont have one but we do have a qb that wont STB either and i think in today's game, that puts you ahead of about 15+ QBs that do on a weekly basis..

 

[pittbb80]

i think it's both.. Very disingenious (and yes, i know im misspelling that word) to give the credit to the system and the coaching staff and not giving Purdy any credit.. You put 90% of these first or second year QBs in the same situation and not for one second to i believe the success is duplicated..

yes, it's a great system with weapons at wr and rb but that's football, put good players in good systems. Dont understand why people use that as a knock on the player. If you dont have a good system or talent around you, you arent going to succeed, no matter who you are.

On the flip side, i do believe a lot of these QB's failures go down to being rushed into a situation before they are ready. playing in one read college systems with little if any actual intelligence needed then going to the nfl and starting in week 2 or 3 and being asked to succeed immediately is just not going to happen.

and we automatically call them a bust when in reality, the failure is much more on the organization and coaching staff.

Hes a good QB. There are a number of good Qbs in the NFL. The question is, is he replaceable and for what kind of money? I think thats a fair debate to have without taking anything from him. When you have all day to throw most times, and have the weapons he has with the OC he has I personally think a lot of QBs in the league would do as well (Rudy might be one example). Look at what Darnold is doing with the Vikings.

 

[PittComm92]

There are about 10 good NFL qbs on this planet.. it's crazy, not sure why the QB play has gone so dramatically downhill over the last few decades. . offenses too complicated? The rules obviously favor the offense.

They're rushing them in too quickly because of the financial and cap considerations.

The stated excuse is that college QBs are more ready now than decades ago. My response to that is that goofy college offenses don't necessarily prepare you just because you threw the ball a lot. And NFL defenses are wildly different than anything they'll see in college, including the Georgias, etc. They're setting some of them up to fail, and the bust rate shows that. Some that manage to stick around eventually find later-career success, like Baker Mayfield and Geno Smith. But a lot of them get Carr'ed to some degree or another and never really find it.

And the real kicker is that a lot of those drafted QBs were acquired through expending more than one high-round draft pick. So it's doubly damaging when they fail. Unlike the days when you could get a Favre in round 2. He'd be top 10 now just because of the way they draft QBs.

Andy Reid sat a talent like Mahomes on the bench for a year. But he's able to do that because he's Andy Reid and had an owner who trusted him completely. If you're not at that level...good luck. The owners want to see immediate return on their investment and the fans want to see wins right away during the QB's cheaper rookie contract.

 

[pittbb80]

They're rushing them in too quickly because of the financial and cap considerations.

The stated excuse is that college QBs are more ready now than decades ago. My response to that is that goofy college offenses don't necessarily prepare you just because you threw the ball a lot. And NFL defenses are wildly different than anything they'll see in college, including the Georgias, etc. They're setting some of them up to fail, and the bust rate shows that. Some that manage to stick around eventually find later-career success, like Baker Mayfield and Geno Smith. But a lot of them get Carr'ed to some degree or another and never really find it.

And the real kicker is that a lot of those drafted QBs were acquired through expending more than one high-round draft pick. So it's doubly damaging when they fail. Unlike the days when you could get a Favre in round 2. He'd be top 10 now just because of the way they draft QBs.

Andy Reid sat a talent like Mahomes on the bench for a year. But he's able to do that because he's Andy Reid and had an owner who trusted him completely. If you're not at that level...good luck. The owners want to see immediate return on their investment and the fans want to see wins right away during the QB's cheaper rookie contract.

Well that and Andy Reid is one of the better offensive minds/coaches in football. Funny how Qbs tend to be better with better coaching and organizational support not taking anything away from Mahomes who is elite.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Hes a good QB. There are a number of good Qbs in the NFL. The question is, is he replaceable and for what kind of money? I think thats a fair debate to have without taking anything from him. When you have all day to throw most times, and have the weapons he has with the OC he has I personally think a lot of QBs in the league would do as well (Rudy might be one example). Look at what Darnold is doing with the Vikings.

is he worth it? Great question and i dont know. The current market for a top of the line qb is what? 40M a year now? Inflated and ridiculous deals to guys like kyler murray and jordan love just screwed up the asking price..

do you pay that money for a good but not great qb? Browns said no and got rid of mayfield. of course then they offered an even bigger one to a bust so that's a bad example. i think if you have a winner, you over-pay, too costly if you cant replace him and we see in the nfl, there are about 10 good NFL qbs and the rest either suck or are mediocre.

Maybe that's why these QBs are getting soo much.

 

[pittbb80]

is he worth it? Great question and i dont know. The current market for a top of the line qb is what? 40M a year now? Inflated and ridiculous deals to guys like kyler murray and jordan love just screwed up the asking price..

do you pay that money for a good but not great qb? Browns said no and got rid of mayfield. of course then they offered an even bigger one to a bust so that's a bad example. i think if you have a winner, you over-pay, too costly if you cant replace him and we see in the nfl, there are about 10 good NFL qbs and the rest either suck or are mediocre.

Maybe that's why these QBs are getting soo much.

I think the key is to have a plan in place to get the next guy without mortgaging the future (see the Browns). It will be interesting to see what Shanahan et al (Lynch is pretty darn good too) do when the time comes. If Purdy is smart as well, he may not want top dollar and stay with the 49ers for a bit less money. Going to a Clowns type organization would be detrimental to his career and health.

 

[thebadby2]

steelers dont have one but we do have a qb that wont STB either and i think in today's game, that puts you ahead of about 15+ QBs that do on a weekly basis..

Stillers are going nowhere fast this year. Fields is not THE reason for that but he is certainly A reason. Same would have been true for Pickett if he was still a Stiller.

 

[PittComm92]

Stillers are going nowhere fast this year. Fields is not THE reason for that but he is certainly A reason. Same would have been true for Pickett if he was still a Stiller.

Pickett was rushed in also. Although not because of finances, but because the HC got twitchy. Clearly the plan was for him to sit for an extended period if not his whole rookie year, but Tomlin threw him in at halftime when Trubisky completely shat the bed. Despite KP never getting any reps with the first team and spending most of camp with the third team. You gotta have a plan with a rookie QB and stick to it.

Tomlin is a terrific HC, but I don't think the next great Steelers QB will be developed under his watch. Dude got handed a HOFer and doesn't really understand the breed IMO.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Baker Mayfield is doing pretty good once he got away from the Browns.
Amazing how inept that franchise is. They had a bona fide #1 QB and couldn't wait to get rid of him.
Now he's flourishing in Tampa, and the Browns are stuck with Chester the Molester! LOL

It's revisionist history that Baker was always bad or was some kind of salvage job. Baker had good seasons in Cleveland, both in productivity and in the W/L ledger. He made a Pro Bowl.

He flamed out there because he played hurt in an effort to help the team and they decided to sell their souls for the literal devil. Now Baker is playing with a good OL and good scheme and he's good again. He's not as surprising as Darnold - who was dog poo everywhere - being good. If Saquon doesn't put up 2,000 yards in 2018, Baker is rookie of the year.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Pickett was rushed in also. Although not because of finances, but because the HC got twitchy. Clearly the plan was for him to sit for an extended period if not his whole rookie year, but Tomlin threw him in at halftime when Trubisky completely shat the bed. Despite KP never getting any reps with the first team and spending most of camp with the third team. You gotta have a plan with a rookie QB and stick to it.

Tomlin is a terrific HC, but I don't think the next great Steelers QB will be developed under his watch. Dude got handed a HOFer and doesn't really understand the breed IMO.

Tomlin WAS a terrific HC. Now his record suggests that he's slightly above average.

Hires very poorly. Seems completely incapable of developing players on offense. Can't get a modern passing game going. Squeaks out wins against lesser teams and gets blown out by most teams with a pulse.

The Steelers will absolutely never get a plus offense until he's gone. He literally doesn't know how to find any of the required components.

 

[PittComm92]

Tomlin WAS a terrific HC. Now his record suggests that he's slightly above average.

Hires very poorly. Seems completely incapable of developing players on offense. Can't get a modern passing game going. Squeaks out wins against lesser teams and gets blown out by most teams with a pulse.

The Steelers will absolutely never get a plus offense until he's gone. He literally doesn't know how to find any of the required components.

I've lost a ton of faith in him over the past few seasons, and I'm a guy who used to defend him all the time. Feels like he's gotten more rigid and conservative as he's gotten older.

The defense looks elite this year, but good lord look how much money they've invested in it. Meanwhile they go dumpster diving on offense.