Zeise article, spot on
- Thread starter CrazyPaco
- Start date
The basic fallacy of this column is that Pitt fans - or fans of any bowl team - are supporting their team by attending one of these minor bowl games. In fact, they are supporting the tourism industry of the cities that host the games.
That is the marketing gimmick that these bowls use. They pick teams based on the ability of the teams to bring fans to the games. They do not care if the games themselves are interesting. All that matters is that the fans attend and buy tickets, rent hotel rooms, and eat restaurant meals. And they sell the idea to fans that their attendance at these games helps their teams. The game itself is not as important - it is supporting your team that matters. Who cares if a 5-7 team is playing a 6-6 team, in a game that no one wants to see.
True. However:
The next bowl and the next bowl and the next bowl also look on a team's ability to bring fans to their city.
That's why Pitt has a bad reputation among bowls, because we don't travel to support our team. Why?
Many answers but chief among them is an apathetic fan base formed by an almost complete lack of support by previous Pitt's administrations.
Couple that with a notoriously tight fisted yinzer mind set and the prevailing choice to buy the latest $150 Stiller bumblebee jersey rather than buy a $25 Pitt football ticket sums it up.
There is no fallacy at all. Attitudes like yours that Pitt fans have used as excuses to not show up to these games are why its fan base is considered among the poorest in the nation when compared to competitor and peer programs. It matters not one wit whether bowls are tourism gimmicks (they are), Pitt's fan base is terrible at attending these events compared to peers and Pitt's football program is judged and rewarded accordingly. Not to mention that Pitt's football program has been repeatedly stuck swallowing the cost of its unsold ticket allotments. The attitude you've demonstrated is absolutely part of the problem. Period.
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Also, Zeise stated pitt fans need to show up next year to support the team that doesn't have a penn state or a notre Dame on its schedule .
Which is absolutely true.
Which is absolutely true.
The school has definitely better connected the importance of it and made it easier fans who want to go.
But really most of the last 15 bowls have been crappy BE bowls v crappy opponents with Pitt limping home into them. I think the upgraded ACC matchups and Pitt going into more bowls with arrow pointing up will help.
As for Heinz this year, it was disappointing even by our standards all the way around including the students. It seemed to be ticking up some prior.
But really most of the last 15 bowls have been crappy BE bowls v crappy opponents with Pitt limping home into them. I think the upgraded ACC matchups and Pitt going into more bowls with arrow pointing up will help.
As for Heinz this year, it was disappointing even by our standards all the way around including the students. It seemed to be ticking up some prior.
This is the right answer. There should be like 10 bowls total and that's it, a damn joke is bowl season , and that has nothing to do with Pitt. Reward a 6-6 football team , is the everyone gets a trophy mentality
if this were entirely true, why would th RA Bowl select Miami? They wont sell any hotel rooms... they're 3 hours away. Miami already doesnt travel well, and the fans that do go will just drive to the game and go home.
Same thing with the Taxslayer and GT. Atlanta is close enough to Jax that the GT fans that go to the game arent getting any hotel rooms.
In both cases, even 4000-5000 Pitt fans wouldve done more for the "tourism" industry of Orlando and Jax than Miami or GT.
Zeise's article got one thing wrong.
Shady wasnt on the 2009 team that played in Charlotte. That was Dion Lewis' freshman year.
Well that I will certainly be doing. I get not everyone can make it all the time, but too many people chose not to make an easy trip to Heinz field on Saturday's (depending where you live)
Newsflash Yinzers waiting for "less bowls"... THERE ARE NOT GOING TO BE LESS BOWLS
Please get over this already the trends of the past 30 years speak for themselves....it's not going back
Quit crying about bowl games stop it....
Bowl games are fun ...people complaining about them aren't ..
Ron Cook retire and take this stupid bowl game attitude with you....
Please get over this already the trends of the past 30 years speak for themselves....it's not going back
Quit crying about bowl games stop it....
Bowl games are fun ...people complaining about them aren't ..
Ron Cook retire and take this stupid bowl game attitude with you....
I've been to numerous Pitt bowl games and even the crappy ones put on a good time. It's well worth the trip IMO if you are on the fence about going.
As for moving the program forward, fan support is HUGE in college athletics. Our fanbase just doesn't get it and wonders why Pitt can't fully move forward.
Has the admin done things wrong? Absolutely. But the one thing us as fans can fix is the support, and many refuse to do it.
As for moving the program forward, fan support is HUGE in college athletics. Our fanbase just doesn't get it and wonders why Pitt can't fully move forward.
Has the admin done things wrong? Absolutely. But the one thing us as fans can fix is the support, and many refuse to do it.
letstalkaboutnext year, the biggest looney tune out there.
The Yinzer attitude is staggering and, unfortunately, stubbornly persistent. There is no easier destination for the greatest concentration of Pitt fans and alumni, and it's arguably the best time of the year to be in NYC. No time for rationalizations and fallacious excuses. Our AD did well to sell the Pinstripe on Pitt and he closed the deal. Support the team and the university and go!...and buy through the Pitt ticket office 
some people are happy about nyc, some are mad. that's how this works. If we went to sun bowl, some would be happy, some would be mad. if we went to Orlando, some would be happy, some would be mad..
I've read on this board that NW is boring, would rather play a Stanford. rumors about sun bowl came up, people complained about the venue and El paso sucking, mainly me I admit..
others said that they want no parts of a backyard brawl in Orlando, because they'd shred our pass defense. You cant make everyone happy. people value different things. some people like nyc at Christmas, some people want sun, some people value a P5 opponent, some want cheap flights. there is no agreed consensus on this. No venue or bowl would appease us all. Its not yinzer, it's not pitt fans, it human beings valuing different things.
I've read on this board that NW is boring, would rather play a Stanford. rumors about sun bowl came up, people complained about the venue and El paso sucking, mainly me I admit..
others said that they want no parts of a backyard brawl in Orlando, because they'd shred our pass defense. You cant make everyone happy. people value different things. some people like nyc at Christmas, some people want sun, some people value a P5 opponent, some want cheap flights. there is no agreed consensus on this. No venue or bowl would appease us all. Its not yinzer, it's not pitt fans, it human beings valuing different things.
The attendance situation is obviously two-fold. Fans need to come out and support the team, which they will when there is some semblance of consistency on and off the field. Programs like PSU, WVU, OSU, etc. in the region of Pittsburgh have all benefited from coaching and program stability. Marching a new coaching staff through the program every couple of years does nothing to promote faith within the fan base, or players, that the program is headed in the right direction.
With that said, I do believe the current administration is placing quite a bit more focus on athletics as a whole; with a willingness to not only compete in the major revenue generating sports, but also the olympic sports as well.
PITT fans showed their excitement for the program last year by heading to the Military Bowl in Annapolis, where the distribution was close to 50/50 even with it being a home game for Navy. This year, I believe we will see a similar turnout for the Pinstripe, with many people deciding the easy drive to NYC is worth it to see this incredible offense, with hope of a decent defensive performance.
Is PITT ever going to compete with PSU or OSU for attendance, absolutely not. The PSU undergraduate base is almost 3 times that of PITT, where OSU is about 2 times as much. What PITT can do with solid seasons on the field, and retaining a winning coaching staff is regularly see 60,000 fans show up for their games.
Most of these bowls are mainly thriving off of ESPN revenue. Selling tickets is the secondary revenue stream. Anything that benefits the local community is well down the list of priorities. Lots of these bowls have investments or sponsorship by local tourism boards, etc., but that is certainly not their primary mission.
To the other poster who said there will never be fewer bowls... of course there could be, if ESPN keeps hemorrhaging subscribers and they no longer want to fund a sea of bowls that no advertisers care about. That's a slow drain, but possible. Why do you think these bowls keep changing names every few years? The dopey companies that sponsor these things (think BBVA) realize there's almost no return on investment of putting their name on a crappy event. The St. Pete bowl has no naming rights this year for the first time since it started in 2008.
Here is my problem with Paul Zeise's article: Watch the bowl games. See how many seats are empty. Loads of them. Sure, TV does a great job in creating the illusion that there are people there, but hopefully we will get a few overhead views.
It is easy to say that Pitt doesn't travel well based on the number of fans that go to bowl games. But "well" is a relative term. From what I've seen, we are probably average as far as P5 teams go. I'm certain that we will bring as many fans to the Pinstripe Bowl as half of the teams who have ever been in it have brought.
It is easy to say that Pitt doesn't travel well based on the number of fans that go to bowl games. But "well" is a relative term. From what I've seen, we are probably average as far as P5 teams go. I'm certain that we will bring as many fans to the Pinstripe Bowl as half of the teams who have ever been in it have brought.
I always want to see it! I've watched every Pitt 6-6 bowl game in it's entirety, recorded it and rewatched it, and none of the championship BCS games in the corresponding years. I care if Pitt gets to 7-6, it means nothing to me if tOSU or 'Bama win a title.
You are correct they are never going to reduce bowl games even though I think they should. And despite with Paco says the bowl season is BS as well as the CFP. The bowls are supposed be about rewearding the teams not the sponsors and bowl cities.
It's about who sells and regardless of how we feel about them PSU and not OSU belongs in the playoff, but Urban sells not Franklin,If Joe was there they would have been a lock, but oh well their problem.
The way to reduce that is to extend the CFP to 8 teams using the NFL model and no one less than 2nd place / conference runner up (or maybe 3rd place) gets a bowl. Tat stops what happened to PSU as well as the Big12 who gets f$$$$$ over ever year.
I'd prefer a better opponent and the Sun bowl. But I'm still going to this game and will support Pitt. Like you said, not everyone will be happy, but I'm happy to go watch Pitt, and especially this Pitt team that has been a ton of fun to watch.
Listen, not everyone will be able to go. I get that. I can't make every bowl game and etc. But when you are someone that just straight up refuses to go to support Pitt, go to home games, donate, etc until Pitt becomes Alabama or someone, and then are the first to complain about everything, that is what gets me. You have no right to complain and are one of the biggest problems. (and when I say you, I don't mean you personally).
I never understood people being upset about too many bowl games. it's weird to me.. these are glorified exhibition games between two good programs, usually matched up programs that normally wouldn't play each other. How is this a bad thing? If you don't like it, don't watch. It's another game in the college football season, another chance to watch college football. Why or how could you complain about this? Some fans are seriously upset about these games and I just don't get it.
Are you doing something else on a Dec 27th at noon? Do you have plans for 2pm on Thursday after Christmas that this will interfere with? I assume you like college football since you are on this board, so if you like college football, why would more games upset you? If it's silly or doesn't make money, then they will stop. Obviously it's a money maker, whether its tv revenue or ticket sales.
Seriously, if you are one of those people complaining about too many bowl games, please explain to me why these games upset you? Rewarding mediocrity? So what, it's another game, players get an xbox and a trip to another city, we fans get another game of entertainment during a time when there really is nothing else to do, espn gets to sell more commercials and coaches get to have the freshmen players get some practice reps.. I literally see ZERO downside to this..
Are you doing something else on a Dec 27th at noon? Do you have plans for 2pm on Thursday after Christmas that this will interfere with? I assume you like college football since you are on this board, so if you like college football, why would more games upset you? If it's silly or doesn't make money, then they will stop. Obviously it's a money maker, whether its tv revenue or ticket sales.
Seriously, if you are one of those people complaining about too many bowl games, please explain to me why these games upset you? Rewarding mediocrity? So what, it's another game, players get an xbox and a trip to another city, we fans get another game of entertainment during a time when there really is nothing else to do, espn gets to sell more commercials and coaches get to have the freshmen players get some practice reps.. I literally see ZERO downside to this..
Pitt is not even going to get 60K if we consistently win. And I dont' think anyone expects to compete with PSU or OSU. What I would expect is that more than 25-30K people show up to home games vs Duke and Syracuse that just came off of a win vs Clemson, was well on their way to a top 25 ranking, and had one of the most fun offenses in the country to watch.
one more point on too many bowl games. I think the problem is, the people that complain about these games are stuck with the old-school mindset of bowl games and how they were in the 70s-80s.. That "new years day" bowl game format that used to be around before cable. Those days are gone. Think about these games as I do. Think of them as "made for tv, exhibition games" meant for entertainment. Don't think of them as some sort of post season playoff. the 4 game tourney, sure but the other bowl games, nothing more than 3 hours of sports entertainment.
If you have that mindset, you will enjoy the college bowl season much more..
If you have that mindset, you will enjoy the college bowl season much more..
The only good, driveable bowls we've been to since Majors II were the Charlotte bowls and both came after Big East Championship Game home losses in which we were playing for the Orange Bowl against Miami one year and the Sugar Bowl against Cincy. And of those games was the dreaded Dec. 26, in the afternoon to boot. I am sorry but no Pitt fans (or any fans) are going to skip Christmas for bowl game that amounts to the NIT after you lost a Championship game in the most crushing of manners.
you guys need to get with me on my mindset here about bowl games. Think of them as just a single game, void of any connection with the regular season, just another opportunity to see our boys play. Think of this as a cool mini-vacation, a chance to get drunk at a sports bar in a different city while wearing your pitt gear. A chance to try and get some strange in a different city before heading back to your life in Pittsburgh, nothing more.
What are excuses to some are valid reasons to others.. I am a new season ticket holder this year. My kid was in the band the previous five years, so I always went for free. I figured I owed it to the university to at least be a season ticket holder. I lucked out with lower bowl seating this year on the 30 yard line. I will never give those seats up, no matter what the program looks like on the field. And the one game that I couldn't go to this year, I damn sure made sure that there were butts in those seats. I get why people, epecially those with young kids that are active in athletics or whatever, don't go to games. A lot of those events happen on Saturdays. When my kids were young, and involved in community soccer, my Saturday's were spent driving from one kid's game to another. I wasn't choosing Pitt football over my kids' games, no matter what. Excuse? Valid reason? That lies in the eyes of the beholder, but it was what it was. But there are enough Pitt "fans" that don't have that reason,, but just don't go. Why? I have no idea
Another easy, but very important wait to show your support; join the Panther Club. The day after they fired Smiley, I called in and requested to join. I got put through to Pat Bostick, and signed on. I don't have a lot of money to give, but I decided that I could give $25/month. From what I understand, a lot of people did exactly as I did. That's a great thing. If there are only 2000 of people like me that signed on to do that, that's an additional $600,000 a year in fundraising for the university's athletics programs.
Another easy, but very important wait to show your support; join the Panther Club. The day after they fired Smiley, I called in and requested to join. I got put through to Pat Bostick, and signed on. I don't have a lot of money to give, but I decided that I could give $25/month. From what I understand, a lot of people did exactly as I did. That's a great thing. If there are only 2000 of people like me that signed on to do that, that's an additional $600,000 a year in fundraising for the university's athletics programs.
Can you please keep fighting the good fight w/ the Ja'postles too? Thank you for your service!
I agree to a point; having an absolutely terrible turnout following the Clemson win was puzzling.
In 2009, when PITT was consistently winning and in contention for the BE title, they averaged 53K fans. Maybe 60K is a little high, but getting close is a possibility with a retention of coaches who are improving the program and winning on the field.
I just looked up that '09 season, I think your avg 53k was a tad high originally but maybe not by much. we had some good crowds.
Sat. Sep. 5 1:00 p.m. Youngstown State* W 38–3 48,497
Sat. Sep. 19 6:00 p.m. Navy* W 27–14 55,064
Sat. Oct. 24 12:00 p.m. South Florida
Sat. Nov. 7 12:00 p.m. Syracuse No. 14 W 37–10 46,885
Sat. Nov. 14 8:00 p.m. Notre Dame* No. 8 W 27–22 65,374
Sat. Oct. 10 3:30 p.m. Connecticut W 24–21 44,839
Sat. Dec. 5 12:00 p.m. No. 5 Cincinnati No. 14 L 44–45 63,387
Loser! You missed Pitt games to watch little kids chase a ball around the pitch!
I just looked up that '09 season, I think your avg 53k was a tad high originally but maybe not by much. we had some good crowds.
Sat. Sep. 5 1:00 p.m. Youngstown State* W 38–3 48,497
Sat. Sep. 19 6:00 p.m. Navy* W 27–14 55,064
Sat. Oct. 24 12:00 p.m. South FloridaW 41–14 50,019
Sat. Nov. 7 12:00 p.m. Syracuse No. 14 W 37–10 46,885
Sat. Nov. 14 8:00 p.m. Notre Dame* No. 8 W 27–22 65,374
Sat. Oct. 10 3:30 p.m. Connecticut W 24–21 44,839
Sat. Dec. 5 12:00 p.m. No. 5 Cincinnati No. 14 L 44–45 63,387
The average was 53,437. I see no reason why PITT cannot get back to these numbers at a minimum. It's all about attracting new, young fans to join the 30K diehard fans that show up to every game. With the home schedule PITT has next year, I'm hoping people see the value in going to the OK State, Miami, UNC, etc. Sure, there's not a WVU, PSU, or ND coming to Heinz next year, but the schedule is still very solid.
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