Zeise article, spot on

[CrazyPaco]

This is true. There is no other sport that puts the onus on its fans to pack up during the holidays to "support their team" for essentially a meaningless exhibition game. Spend money, time away from family at the very time where people want to spend time and money on their family. It is bullshit. Sorry. I love watching the bowls, but to divvy out these rewards just because Fan Base A is bigger, closer or dumber than Fan Base B is ridiculous.

Maybe there would be more interesting bowl matchups if they looked at the quality of teams and matchup. Like they used to do.

As for playoffs, they should just jettison half of the bowls and conf champ games, have a 16 team playoff, the first two rounds would be home games to the higher seeds and do it right. You can have a few "bowl" games in smaller venues.....focus on the matchup.

I don't want to hear about "tradition", they is absolutely NO TRADITION in college football. Time to do away with this garbage.

Not only are you inventing narratives that aren't on here, but you are also demonstrating the type of attitude that is used to discourage attendance, which does not help, and even damages, Pitt's position in the hierarchy of college football. It doesn't matter if you like the system or not, it is not changing, and neither Pitt nor anyone else is fielding an FBS college football team that competes in your fantasy meritocracy.

It's also funny that we have a thread like this every year around this time. And every year people inevitably complain about why Pitt didn't get the bowl they think it deserves. Well the fact that the above represents the thinking of too many as to why they won't even contemplate going to these games, that otherwise call themselves supporters of the program but really aren't, and they're more than happy to slap each other on the back about how noble their refusal to even consider such support is. Reality is bothersome.

 

[PittMan 72]

Not only are you inventing narratives that aren't on here, but you are also demonstrating the type of attitude that will not help, and even damages, Pitt's position in the hierarchy of college football. It doesn't matter if you like the system or not, it is not changing, and neither Pitt nor anyone else fielding an FBS college football team competes in your fantasy meritocracy.

It's also funny that we have a thread like this every year around this time. And every year people inevitably complain about why Pitt didn't get the bowl they think it deserves. Well the fact that the above represents the thinking of too many that call themselves supporters of the program but really aren't, and they're more than happy to slap each other on the back about how noble their refusal to even consider such support is. Reality is bothersome.

Some of the ones that do the least - or in many cases nothing at all in terms of tangibly supporting the Pitt football program by donating $$$ or buying tickets from Pitt - are also some of the ones that complain the most. Really have to question the motives.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

I would be more than happy to listen to these excuses if it weren't for the fact so many Yinzers can find the time and money to travel to meaningless Steelers road games in December.

 

[Big Marty1]

All I know is me and all the people going to New York are going to have a great time. stay home you miserable dopes.

 

[OriginalEther]

Ive been to every game for 28 years. Forget if you think attendance numbers are off but this year, 2016, was the worst Pitt home support in memory. I'm done with caring about dopes who are missing out on geeat saturdays but how could any follower of us not come this year with the best offense in history and pasting the Nits and Clemson. Its bizarre. Again, my 12 season tickets are never leaving but the support here sucks. Dont complain about Pitt anymore if you dont come. I wish the games were blacked out within 100 miles so the lazy so called fans would get off their lazyboys.

Things will be better when Pitt is out of the Big East, Pederson is gone, the Script is back, and when we can buy beer at games.
Wait a sec.....

 

[jtownknowitall]

Wasn't the Big Apple Bowl supposed to take its place amongst the major bowls according to this board? We've made it!

 

[Franb]

There are many ways to support the program. There are many ways by which programs are judged. No matter how crappy the bowl system is, fan attendance at these games is both a way the program is supported and judged and that isn't changing any time soon.

College football is entertainment for the fans, and I would guess that for the vast majority of those fans, the way they judge a team is based on its performance on the field. Not how many donors it has, or its attendance, or how many people buy tickets to bowl games. The only post-season college football games that matter are the playoff games, and they are not based on fan support - they are based on performance.

Some of you are being critical of Pitt fans for not attending these games. I am being critical of a system which markets these games as barometers of fan support. You can choose to buy into that marketing, or not; and to judge programs by how many fans attend bowl games, or not.

 

[CrazyPaco]

College football is entertainment for the fans, and I would guess that for the vast majority of those fans, the way they judge a team is based on its performance on the field. Not how many donors it has, or its attendance, or how many people buy tickets to bowl games. The only post-season college football games that matter are the playoff games, and they are not based on fan support - they are based on performance.

Some of you are being critical of Pitt fans for not attending these games. I am being critical of a system which markets these games as barometers of fan support. You can choose to buy into that marketing, or not; and to judge programs by how many fans attend bowl games, or not.

For the fans, huh? That's great, but it matters not one fuccking wit to Pitt or the team, players or coaches that are in part rewarded based on the fan support, nor does it change any reality that Pitt's program has to deal with or operate within.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Not only are you inventing narratives that aren't on here, but you are also demonstrating the type of attitude that is used to discourage attendance, which does not help, and even damages, Pitt's position in the hierarchy of college football. It doesn't matter if you like the system or not, it is not changing, and neither Pitt nor anyone else is fielding an FBS college football team that competes in your fantasy meritocracy.

It's also funny that we have a thread like this every year around this time. And every year people inevitably complain about why Pitt didn't get the bowl they think it deserves. Well the fact that the above represents the thinking of too many as to why they won't even contemplate going to these games, that otherwise call themselves supporters of the program but really aren't, and they're more than happy to slap each other on the back about how noble their refusal to even consider such support is. Reality is bothersome.

Yo Taco, I am telling the truth. It is the Holidays. People like to be with family for the holidays. People tend to spend money on the holidays. So Taco, you try to be such an intellectual, but unfortunately you are just a cheerleader. See, Life > College COLLEGE FOOTBALL. Come on, tell me how wrong I am? We just have railed on our most bitter bival for 5 years for the same lack of perspective. PSU is evil when they do this, But when it come to us...WHOA......easy there. See, people like you allow a Jerry Sandusky to go on at a Pitt.....just like PSU. Fortunately, there ain;t that many at Pitt who put the "U" above all else.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Yo Taco, I am telling the truth. It is the Holidays. People like to be with family for the holidays. People tend to spend money on the holidays. So Taco, you try to be such an intellectual, but unfortunately you are just a cheerleader. See, Life > College COLLEGE FOOTBALL. Come on, tell me how wrong I am? We just have railed on our most bitter bival for 5 years for the same lack of perspective. PSU is evil when they do this, But when it come to us...WHOA......easy there. See, people like you allow a Jerry Sandusky to go on at a Pitt.....just like PSU. Fortunately, there ain;t that many at Pitt who put the "U" above all else.

You want to equivocate the many fan bases where the fans look forward to bowl game vacations instead of panning them on public forums to one that covered up decades of serial child rape?

You have a choice what to do what you want with your time and money, just don't expect anyone to buy the fact that you are a supporter of the Pitt football program when you come to a message board and proudly boast how you won't support the program because you think it is stupid to do so. I expect to never see complaints from you about Pitt's football program, ever....not about getting passed over by bowls, not about funding, not about losing coaches, not building facilities, or not about losing recruits. Of course, I'll spare myself from your further comments with the handy ignore function which makes these boards infinitely more tolerable.

 

[Big Marty1]

Make the final 4 and fan numbers are irrelevant . We are going to be there with Narduzzi.

 

[Big Marty1]

Ive been ripped on here for going to the ACC hoops tourney to see Pitt . Its a very strange group of folks who criticize the very people who support Pitt. You cant jump on and off the bandwagon and expect to sustain a strong program. IMO.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

You want to equivocate the many fan bases where the fans look forward to bowl game vacations instead of panning them on public forums to one that covered up decades of serial child rape?

You have a choice what to do what you want with your time and money, just don't expect anyone to buy the fact that you are a support of the Pitt football program when you come to a message board and proudly boast how you won't support the program because you think it is stupid to do so. I expect to never see complaints from you about Pitt's football program, ever....not about getting passed over by bowls, not about funding, not about losing coaches, not building facilities, or not about losing recruits. Of course, I'll spare myself from your further comments with the handy ignore function which makes these boards infinitely more tolerable.

You're really accentuating the "Crazy" part of your moniker with the whole, "I'm putting anyone on ignore who disagrees with me" nonsense. Oh that's right: you won't see this because I'm on ignore too.

 

[Swervin27]

Our fan support is fine as is our program. 8-4, should have been 9-3, program is trending up, chancellor is onboard with the program as is the new AD. There is always challenges and obstacles in life, we have much less than most D1 programs.

Keep up the good work panther nation, we broke season ticket sales and that will continue to rise. Life is good, enjoy the ride. And for the love of Christ, quit believing these bowl games are anything more than meaningless exhibition games, no one even cares who wins most of these games.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Our fan support is fine as is our program. 8-4, should have been 9-3, program is trending up, chancellor is onboard with the program as is the new AD. There is always challenges and obstacles in life, we have much less than most D1 programs.

Keep up the good work panther nation, we broke season ticket sales and that will continue to rise. Life is good, enjoy the ride. And for the love of Christ, quit believing these bowl games are anything more than meaningless exhibition games, no one even cares who wins most of these games.

No one that attended any home games after September can possibly think our fan support is fine.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Ive been ripped on here for going to the ACC hoops tourney to see Pitt . Its a very strange group of folks who criticize the very people who support Pitt. You cant jump on and off the bandwagon and expect to sustain a strong program. IMO.

It's beyond bizarre. It really boils down to people wanting to feel ok with their choices not to do the things that other fan bases do in greater numbers. Hey, that is their right, but the problem is that these are typically the same people that think our program has some sort of inherent birthright to wake up every day in 1981.

 

[SVPanther]

Look, Pitt is what it is (for the better IMO). We at first a research/grad school University, a distant second, undergrad and a distant third, athletics - which has little relationship to the first two. Jesus! It's about adding value to your degree! I hope we win too! But not like there are more important things, at my Alma Mater.
Just my .02.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Look, Pitt is what it is (for the better IMO). We at first a research/grad school University, a distant second, undergrad and a distant third, athletics - which has little relationship to the first two. Jesus! It's about adding value to your degree! I hope we win too! But not like there are more important things, at my Alma Mater.
Just my .02.

I wouldn't say undergrad is a distant 2nd. If you accept the premise that priority or characteristic is reflective of where revenue is generated, it breaks down this way:

$726.5 million in grants & contracts (mostly research/graduate)
$588.6 million in tuition (mostly undergrad)
$057.2 million in athletics revenue

 

[OriginalEther]

Geography and demographics are not on Pitts side on this.

Most bowls are too far away...And thus expensive...for a lot of fans to attend.
I for one am likely to only be able to attend a bowl in Nashville or Charlotte anytime soon. Maybe Orlando just because the wife and kids could visit Disney.

And by being more of a regional school, Pitt isn't going to have that massive fan base that's going to send lots of fans.
And by being in a pro town, said fans are less rabid. And likely less understanding of the bowl system concept.

Of course, going to the games that are actually in Pittsburgh would help also.

Otherwise, it's just beating one's head against the wall.

 

[Swervin27]

No one that attended any home games after September can possibly think our fan support is fine.

I do but I'm not a self depreciating pitt fan like the rest of you

 

[mbe 34]

I do but I'm not a self depreciating pitt fan like the rest of you

Having read a lot of this thread makes me feel like myself and others have too much idle time.

All I can add is I'm a Pitt fan.
This has been one of the best and most entertaining seasons in years.
I support this team no matter what.
I'm going to the Pinstripe Bowl and looking forward to it.
Hail to Pitt!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Ive been ripped on here for going to the ACC hoops tourney to see Pitt . Its a very strange group of folks who criticize the very people who support Pitt. You cant jump on and off the bandwagon and expect to sustain a strong program. IMO.

I am not criticizing fans for going. I am criticizing college football to host these remote locations for conference champ games and then bowl games and the busiest times of year, where people are spending money on gifts, parties, dinners, etc....college football expects you to drop everything and go see what amounts to a meaningless exhibition game.

That's all. And that is the metrics to which these bowls select teams. It is not a "reward" for a job well done.

 

[PITTLAW]

Yo Taco, I am telling the truth. It is the Holidays. People like to be with family for the holidays. People tend to spend money on the holidays. So Taco, you try to be such an intellectual, but unfortunately you are just a cheerleader. See, Life > College COLLEGE FOOTBALL. Come on, tell me how wrong I am? We just have railed on our most bitter bival for 5 years for the same lack of perspective. PSU is evil when they do this, But when it come to us...WHOA......easy there. See, people like you allow a Jerry Sandusky to go on at a Pitt.....just like PSU. Fortunately, there ain;t that many at Pitt who put the "U" above all else.

Pretty pathetic response to make such inappropriate innuendo about someone who is a very devoted Pitt fan. There is no reason why Pitt families cannot make football, basketball and bowl games and tournaments part of their family plans, whether it is during or outside of holiday periods on the calendar. That you or your family do not want to include Pitt in your plans, is just fine. But be certain, those fans and families that do share their time and treasure with Pitt athletics, are far superior fans to those that choose not to do so. Hail to Pitt!

 

[jtownknowitall]

Yep. Gather the kiddies up and tell them their long awaited trip to Disney is on hold this year. We're going to the Pinstripe Bowl!

 

[PITTLAW]

Yep. Gather the kiddies up and tell them their long awaited trip to Disney is on hold this year. We're going to the Pinstripe Bowl!

Not sure how old your kids are, but I know as a kid I was more than excited about a family trip/vacation in NYC. There is plenty of stuff for kids in the city, beyond the 3-4 hours a game takes off of the calendar. I have met plenty of my friend's millennial children that regularly attend Pitt football and basketball games--and the kids love going--some have become bigger fans than their parents. Actually, that is how fans are cultivated and created. But as they say, different strokes...just do not pretend to be some super fan. Hail to Pitt!

 

[WOODY92]

Here's what has to happen for the Pitt football program to move forward. Pitt football has to win and win a lot. In the history of sports, no program or team was moved forward by fans packing the stadium BEFORE the team playing in that stadium started winning a lot of games. When is the last time the Pitt football program got through September unbeaten? 1989 at 5-0-1? That's 27 years. We all know the history. I love what Narduzzi has brought to the table in terms of energy. Things are trending in the right direction, but for Pitt to start filling it's own house it can't afford to piss away games like Okla St and UNC this year. Those are crushing early season losses for a program desperately trying to appeal to the alumni who haven't been around and the casual fan. No marketing gimmick is going to make up for losses like those, or losses to YSU, Bowling Green, Ohio and the other diasters the program has suffered through over the last 25+ years. You can't kick around a general fan base for nearly 30 years and then put the responsibility of pushing the program forward on the backs of those same fans. The coaching staff and kids on the field have to come through in key situations. The PSU game was fantastic, but the following two weeks were classic Pitt. Clemson was as good as it gets and they've kept the momentum going by winning out after the Clemson game. The job of bringing this program back is squarely on the shoulders of Pat Narduzzi and the kids he's coaching. If they can avoid the soul crushing defeats of years past, especially early in the season, people will show up. If they can't the beat will go on. Pitt fans, myself included, filled the stadium in Annapolis last year and were rewarded with a lousy game. It happens, but it's also an example of a time when Pitt simply has to come through on the field. They did it against PSU and Clemson this year, but they have to keep on doing it. It is all about winning games. The idea that fans are going to show up first is misguided. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Yep. Gather the kiddies up and tell them their long awaited trip to Disney is on hold this year. We're going to the Pinstripe Bowl!

Yes, because that's an equitable response to this topic. Can you point out the post where people were blasted for not shelving pre-existing vacation plans or family time for a bowl game?

Here's what I will blast, people that have no inclination to support the program by attending a bowl in the first place and then jump on a public forum to make comments to the effect of how stupid everyone is that points out that it is a good thing for the program for fans to at least consider attending. And this happens year after year...probably from the same miserable SOBs. Why the hell would anyone who claims to care about Pitt try to discourage others from supporting the program if reasonable to do so? What does that say about such people? That's rhetorical, because everyone knows what it says.

 

[TD_istheman]

Yo Taco, I am telling the truth. It is the Holidays. People like to be with family for the holidays. People tend to spend money on the holidays. So Taco, you try to be such an intellectual, but unfortunately you are just a cheerleader. See, Life > College COLLEGE FOOTBALL. Come on, tell me how wrong I am? We just have railed on our most bitter bival for 5 years for the same lack of perspective. PSU is evil when they do this, But when it come to us...WHOA......easy there. See, people like you allow a Jerry Sandusky to go on at a Pitt.....just like PSU. Fortunately, there ain;t that many at Pitt who put the "U" above all else.

Bingo

 

[TD_istheman]

Yep. Gather the kiddies up and tell them their long awaited trip to Disney is on hold this year. We're going to the Pinstripe Bowl!

Divorce is imminent

 

[jtownknowitall]

Crazy Paco, I was responding to Pitt Law'a post immediately preceding mine. I didn't feel the need to quote it.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Crazy Paco, I was responding to Pitt Law'a post immediately preceding mine. I didn't feel the need to quote it.

Alright I stand corrected...I can't speak for Pitt Law but I don't think he was suggesting people change existing plans, and I understand it is hard with how last minute bowl announcements are. However, I certainly know families in other fan bases that do, some years, factor in bowl plans with their holidays. Not every year, no all families....but it just shows the difference in the mindset in fan bases. We are not a fanbase with the mentality of those we wish to compete against, and either we are able to change that, or we (collectively) will continue to be a hurdle that the athletics programs will have to achieve success in spite of. Maybe I've not seen it on other boards, but the annual belittling of Pitt's bowl games is something I've found unique and disturbing, and I don't respect it at all.

 

[PITTLAW]

Crazy Paco, I was responding to Pitt Law'a post immediately preceding mine. I didn't feel the need to quote it.

I was not suggesting anyone change their plans. However, if you really are a great fan, you would plan ahead for football bowl games and basketball tournament games--the dates and times are well known in advance. I always block off those dates, and every family could do so too...if it is/was a priority. If you have indoctrinated your children to Pitt sports...I'd think they would expect to [and want to attend these games]. Bowl trips are a lot of fun, and are much more than just the 3-4 hours that the game takes up. But hey, if Disney is on your holiday calendar...knock yourself out and have fun. But also don't try to persuade us that you are some super fan either...because if you were, attending the bowl game would have been on your calendar for over six months. And that is okay, not everyone can be or wants to be-- a super fan. Hail to Pitt!

 

[CrazyPaco]

I was not suggesting anyone change their plans. However, if you really are a great fan, you would plan ahead for football bowl games and basketball tournament games--the dates and times are well known in advance. I always block off those dates, and every family could do so too...if it is/was a priority. If you have indoctrinated your children to Pitt sports...I'd think they would expect to [and want to attend these games]. Bowl trips are a lot of fun, and are much more than just the 3-4 hours that the game takes up. But hey, if Disney is on your holiday calendar...knock yourself out and have fun. But also don't try to persuade us that you are some super fan either...because if you were, attending the bowl game would have been on your calendar for over six months. And that is okay, not everyone can be or wants to be-- a super fan. Hail to Pitt!

To be fair, I actually know some super fans that actually are in Disney (and elsewhere) this year for the holidays and can't get back in time for the bowl. And I mean it, I would consider these people to be super fans.

There are always competing priorities for people's limited resources of money and time, and with family, Pitt should not win out over them unless it truly is a thing that the family can enjoy participating in together. Lets face it, not everyone's spouse or kids are alumni or fans of Pitt, let alone sports fans. Not that PittLaw's statement doesn't have some merit. I often hear excuses for not attending Pitt events that could be solved a little forethought and planning. What it typically boils down to is just a lack of interest.

I don't think I've ever got on someone for not going to a bowl. I don't agree with that sentiment, and I hope I've never implied that. But I do get on people for not recognizing the importance of bowl attendance to the well-being of the program or actively championing against the idea that others should attend if they are able. I rail against those ideas because they are deleterious to Pitt.

 

[Swervin27]

my two cents.. judging a fan base by how many tickets they sell to a meaningless exhibition game during Christmas break is beyond silly. Season ticket sales, sure, do we need more people to go to Heinz to see marshall and Syracuse? Yes. spare me this nonsense about bowl tickets though.

 

[OriginalEther]

my two cents.. judging a fan base by how many tickets they sell to a meaningless exhibition game during Christmas break is beyond silly. Season ticket sales, sure, do we need more people to go to Heinz to see marshall and Syracuse? Yes. spare me this nonsense about bowl tickets though.

While I somewhat agree, the two are somewhat intertwined.
I mean, excluding the psu and nd games, Pitt has averaged about 43k a game the past two seasons. It's nuts to think a team that draws that will bring 10-15k to a bowl that's not in driving range. There's not enough fans, period.