Zeise article, spot on

[Swervin27]

The average was 53,437. I see no reason why PITT cannot get back to these numbers at a minimum. It's all about attracting new, young fans to join the 30K diehard fans that show up to every game. With the home schedule PITT has next year, I'm hoping people see the value in going to the OK State, Miami, UNC, etc. Sure, there's not a WVU, PSU, or ND coming to Heinz next year, but the schedule is still very solid.

im trying to think why those numbers were so much higher than norm? Good team and ND and CIncy helps but 48k for YSU and 55k for navy seem REAL high.. Curious if this was a Pederson attendance figure or butts in seats.. Ironically enough, I was at the USF game, drinking in the great hall at that make-shift bar that was rented out by the pitt swimmer alumni group, my buddy was a pitt swimmer. I am about 8 beers in and I look over and 2' away from me or Roy Jones Jr and Charles Smith.. Was pretty cool, still cant for life of me figure out why ROy Jones Jr was at a pitt v USF football game, drinking beer with alumni pitt swimmers.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I sure hope Panther fans turn out. Besides the game, no place better to be than strolling Manhattan during the Holidays! Great Pitt got to the Pinstripe. Should be a good game and you can't beat the locale!

Oh yeah? Just be careful. Especially if you have little kids. Because a kid can get lost there. And if so, this could happen to that kid.

THIS.......

COULD VERY WELL TURN INTO THIS.......

 

[VAPITTALUM]

im trying to think why those numbers were so much higher than norm? Good team and ND and CIncy helps but 48k for YSU and 55k for navy seem REAL high.. Curious if this was a Pederson attendance figure or butts in seats.. Ironically enough, I was at the USF game, drinking in the great hall at that make-shift bar that was rented out by the pitt swimmer alumni group, my buddy was a pitt swimmer. I am about 8 beers in and I look over and 2' away from me or Roy Jones Jr and Charles Smith.. Was pretty cool, still cant for life of me figure out why ROy Jones Jr was at a pitt v USF football game, drinking beer with alumni pitt swimmers.

That's a great story; the same could be said of the PITT BB games during their glory years in the BE. The number of professional athletes was incredible.

Obviously this is just speculation, but I think part of the reason the fans were excited to come see PITT was due to the 2008 season, where PITT beat several solid teams in USF, Iowa, ND, WV. Again, this is certainly speculation, but performing well the season before certainly had to help. With PITT seemingly finishing strong this year, with a bowl game pending, hopefully the administration can parlay some of that success into more butts in the seats.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

A chance to try and get some strange in a different city before heading back to your life in Pittsburgh, nothing more.

Tinder of New York is pretty sweet. Just sayin.

 

[ThePanthers]

The average was 53,437. I see no reason why PITT cannot get back to these numbers at a minimum. It's all about attracting new, young fans to join the 30K diehard fans that show up to every game. With the home schedule PITT has next year, I'm hoping people see the value in going to the OK State, Miami, UNC, etc. Sure, there's not a WVU, PSU, or ND coming to Heinz next year, but the schedule is still very solid.

But if you take out ND and the defacto Big East championship game, that number goes down into the 40Ks.

Now the admin is working on getting at least PSU or WVU on every other year and ND will work itself in every 6 years with the ACC scheduling agreement, so we'll have that. But to expect every game to be the defacto championship for people to show up, that is not going to happen.

Heck, the VT game this year and UNC game last year were big time to win the division and those were both sparse for the maginitude of that game.

 

[Swervin27]

Tinder of New York is pretty sweet. Just sayin.

atta boy, that's the mindset.. people all worried about rankings and opponents strengths when they need to prioritize the strange accessibility of the host city..

 

[Panther Parrothead]

Here is my problem with Paul Zeise's article: Watch the bowl games. See how many seats are empty. Loads of them. Sure, TV does a great job in creating the illusion that there are people there, but hopefully we will get a few overhead views.

It is easy to say that Pitt doesn't travel well based on the number of fans that go to bowl games. But "well" is a relative term. From what I've seen, we are probably average as far as P5 teams go. I'm certain that we will bring as many fans to the Pinstripe Bowl as half of the teams who have ever been in it have brought.

Thanks for posting ^^^this^^^.

Granted, Pitt usually doesn't travel well to their bowl games. But there are plenty of other schools who don't travel well. Yet Pitt seems to get waaay more criticism than most. I see plenty of other bowl games with empty seats.

The difference is that for some of these bowls, the game is played in the backyard of at least one of the teams, or maybe one of the teams is making a rare bowl appearance to a major bowl. So they're generating more excitement than normal - say, if Pitt was in the Orange Bowl this year.

But for me, any criticism from the Nits re: attendance is invalid, given that they're so big that they print diplomas like a US Mint prints dollars.

Their branch campus system has watered-down a UPS degree so thin that in Central PA, they could sell bumper stickers that say, "HONK IF YOU HAVE A DEGREE FROM PENN STATE".

 

[rojo36]

The basic fallacy of this column is that Pitt fans - or fans of any bowl team - are supporting their team by attending one of these minor bowl games. In fact, they are supporting the tourism industry of the cities that host the games.

That is the marketing gimmick that these bowls use. They pick teams based on the ability of the teams to bring fans to the games. They do not care if the games themselves are interesting. All that matters is that the fans attend and buy tickets, rent hotel rooms, and eat restaurant meals. And they sell the idea to fans that their attendance at these games helps their teams. The game itself is not as important - it is supporting your team that matters. Who cares if a 5-7 team is playing a 6-6 team, in a game that no one wants to see.

True, but New York also has a number of people from Pittsburgh who have lived there for varying lengths of time so perhaps that will boost attendance-who knows. Better than the Sun Bowl though.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

Tinder of New York is pretty sweet. Just sayin.

Be careful what you wish for. What was easy for you was probably easy for a lot of other guys, too.

 

[Swervin27]

Be careful what you wish for. What was easy for you was probably easy for a lot of other guys, too.

nothing wrong with eating the low hanging fruit..

 

[Panther Parrothead]

nothing wrong with eating the low hanging fruit..

In the old days, I would've agreed with you. But today? No way. Too many bad "bugs" that antibiotics can't kill, and waaay too many psychos out there.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Thanks for posting ^^^this^^^.

Granted, Pitt usually doesn't travel well to their bowl games. But there are plenty of other schools who don't travel well. Yet Pitt seems to get waaay more criticism than most. I see plenty of other bowl games with empty seats.

The difference is that for some of these bowls, the game is played in the backyard of at least one of the teams, or maybe one of the teams is making a rare bowl appearance to a major bowl. So they're generating more excitement than normal - say, if Pitt was in the Orange Bowl this year.

But for me, any criticism from the Nits re: attendance is invalid, given that they're so big that they print diplomas like a US Mint prints dollars.

Their branch campus system has watered-down a UPS degree so thin that in Central PA, they could sell bumper stickers that say, "HONK IF YOU HAVE A DEGREE FROM PENN STATE".

Pitt has traveled well to exactly one bowl in 20 years. Pitt hasn't travel well compared to peers, regardless of the circumstances of the bowl. Pitt is compared to other schools' fan bases, and it is near the bottom of the P5, which is why it keeps getting passed over by presumed better bowls. There is no handicap given for these judgments. Either a school can sell tickets or not. The fairness is irrelevant; it is a numbers driven business decision, it is fairly black and white, and Pitt's fan base gets the criticism and perception they've earned in this industry whether we fans think it is deserved or not. We vote by our wallets every year.

If Pitt doesn't sell out its allotment, and then some, to the PinStripe this year, which is probably the second easiest possible bowl for the fan base to get to after the Millitary Bowl, last year's bowl attendance will be viewed as a fluke and it will reaffirmed the long held beliefs (and actual numbers that support those beliefs) by those making selections.

Don't think this isn't a recruiting issue either.

 

[ClarkLotTgate]

I haven't seen any figures updated on sales, anyone know how we are doing with that allotment? I'm most likely gonna head up the NYC with 1-2 friends, make a 2 day trip out of it or something. In all honesty even if we don't go, I'll buy 1 ticket just to help with the sales, and donate it or whatever.

Item 1:
Bowl games want crowds and butts in seats, but also care about the TV attraction, since that's how they sell their media advertising. Miami might not bring a lot of fans/especially not many will stay and spend $$ BUT they will get TV viewers, which means more $ for the bowl. We aren't a huge market, but we're certainly no slouch relative to ACC teams not named FSU and Clemson.

Item 2:
Season ticket sales, and sold tickets in general have never been the big problem for Pitt and Heinz. It's actually getting people to show up and/or go into the stadium. I don't have any great solution but speaking for my crew, beer sales helped get people into the stadium at a reasonable time around kickoff.

Just so to put some validity behind what i'm saying:
I went to Navy last year, went to the '03 Charlotte, and the Birmingham year we played UK, also a season tickets for 15+ years. I know what i'm talking about.

H2P

 

[Tuckabuckaway]

One other thing I left out in my previous rant...

We have arguably the greatest Pitt gridiron story playing his final game in a Pitt uni. Reason enough right there. #ConnerStrong

 

[Swervin27]

Pitt has traveled well to exactly one bowl in 20 years. Pitt hasn't travel well compared to peers, regardless of the circumstances of the bowl. Pitt is compared to other schools' fan bases, and it is near the bottom of the P5, which is why it keeps getting passed over by presumed better bowls. There is no handicap given for these judgments. Either a school can sell tickets or not. The fairness is irrelevant; it is a numbers driven business decision, it is fairly black and white, and Pitt's fan base gets the criticism and perception they've earned in this industry whether we fans think it is deserved or not. We vote by our wallets every year.

If Pitt doesn't sell out its allotment, and then some, to the PinStripe this year, which is probably the second easiest possible bowl for the fan base to get to after the Millitary Bowl, last year's bowl attendance will be viewed as a fluke and it will reaffirmed the long held beliefs (and actual numbers that support those beliefs) by those making selections.

Don't think this isn't a recruiting issue either.

tough to respect for a bowl system that is so strongly determined by ticket sales over such things as worthiness.. Another reason to put very little stock in these meaningless bowl games, much MUCH less significant than a typical regular season game.. match ups determined by ticket sales= EXHIBITION GAME

 

[CrazyPaco]

tough to respect for a bowl system that is so strongly determined by ticket sales over such things as worthiness.. Another reason to put very little stock in these meaningless bowl games, much MUCH less significant than a typical regular season game.. match ups determined by ticket sales= EXHIBITION GAME

Partially determined by projected ticket sales, but why the hell does that matter? If you want Pitt to be perceived differently, than you go to these things if you can. If you don't give a shit, then sit at home on your ass and complain about they system on a message board to make yourself feel better about your choice not to support the program.

It's also bullshit. Pre-circa 1970 when the final rankings were done before the bowls were played, and the statistics from bowl games didn't make it into the record books, they truly were exhibitions. Now, for any team with more than two losses, at a minimum they are worth no less than regular season games: bowl outcomes will affect final rankings and official statistical records and certainly impact program momentum and perception moving forward.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

match ups determined by ticket sales= EXHIBITION GAME

I wished the NCAA would take over the bowl system and determine matchups by merit.

Its just so stupid that they outsource their post-season when they can rent stadiums and stage their own bowl games and keep all the money.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Why the hell does that matter?

Because it is weird to determine matchups by ticket sales instead of merit.

Complain about Pitt fans all you want but smaller schools that are not situated near many bowl game locations are at a huge disadvantage for selection.

 

[ClarkLotTgate]

I wished the NCAA would take over the bowl system and determine matchups by merit.

Its just so stupid that they outsource their post-season when they can rent stadiums and stage their own bowl games and keep all the money.

The NCAA can barely hold together all the moving pieces in football, let alone run and organize bowl games.

It's all probably going to be meaningless anyway when the P5 plus a few do their own thing for football in the near future.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

Because it is weird to determine matchups by ticket sales instead of merit.

Complain about Pitt fans all you want but smaller schools that are not situated near many bowl game locations are at a huge disadvantage for selection.

Not really. College football has always been about money. It's why TCU and Baylor were left out in 2014. They don't draw dick compared to bigger schools. It's also why shitbag 8-4 Big 10 teams got New Year's Day bowls.

 

[CrazyPaco]

The NCAA can barely hold together all the moving pieces in football, let alone run and organize bowl games.

It's all probably going to be meaningless anyway when the P5 plus a few do their own thing for football in the near future.

The P5 is essentially doing their own thing now anyway since they have been granted autonomy. The NCAA has almost no authority over the P5, particularly in football, if the all the disgusting shenanigans at Penn State, Baylor, and UNC didn't make that crystal clear for everyone. The reason that the NCAA even still exists is because it is convenient for the P5 for the NCAA to exist in order to run all the other sports.

The P5 will never give up control of the Playoff and bowl structure.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Not truly exhibitions, but the middle tier down mostly are. People don't go to Steeler pre season games either. I think Pitt is finally trying to get the importance across to its fans.
Like a generation behind though.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I tried buying 4 at the $55 & $70 level on Pitt website and none available. Looks like $95 & up is what is left, unless maybe trying single seats or a smaller quantity.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

That's a good sign.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I tried buying 4 at the $55 & $70 level on Pitt website and none available. Looks like $95 & up is what is left, unless maybe trying single seats or a smaller quantity.

Still available in pairs at $70 (and up) but only available as singles at $55.

 

[Swervin27]

Partially determined by projected ticket sales, but why the hell does that matter? If you want Pitt to be perceived differently, than you go to these things if you can. If you don't give a shit, then sit at home on your ass and complain about they system on a message board to make yourself feel better about your choice not to support the program.

It's also bullshit. Pre-circa 1970 when the final rankings were done before the bowls were played, and the statistics from bowl games didn't make it into the record books, they truly were exhibitions. Now, for any team with more than two losses, at a minimum they are worth no less than regular season games: bowl outcomes will affect final rankings and official statistical records and certainly impact program momentum and perception moving forward.

I want pitt's football team to be perceived by what they do on the field, not by whether or not fans buy tickets. I know you and souf love to lay all of pitt's problems on us terrible fans but it doesn't fit here..

 

[ThePanthers]

I want pitt's football team to be perceived by what they do on the field, not by whether or not fans buy tickets. I know you and souf love to lay all of pitt's problems on us terrible fans but it doesn't fit here..

I would love that too, but unfortunately that's not reality in college athletics.

 

[PittMan2003]

Zeise is completely right. We have 4 in the $95 section.

I was at the fiesta bowl and it was pathetic how few pitt fans were there. I swear it was like 60k utah fans and about 5k pitt fans. I hate utah and urban meyer to this day after that shitty experience. Pitt fans need to show up for this game. I wish it wasnt this way, but attendance does matter and will be part of determining this program's ceiling.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I want pitt's football team to be perceived by what they do on the field, not by whether or not fans buy tickets. I know you and souf love to lay all of pitt's problems on us terrible fans but it doesn't fit here..

It would be nice if everything and everyone was judged solely on their merits. Unfortunately, that doesn't matter one shit in the real world of college football, or perhaps in the reality of many other areas. We don't have rainbow riding unicorns flying out of the top of the Cathedral either.

Pitt fans have to start accepting, that in college football, they are actually a significant part of the equation of the program. Pitt's fan base is currently a hurdle that the program has to overcome (and has successfully overcome in the past), along with other aspects of the program like facilities, administration, resources, coaching, and general football talent. The fan base can either be a positive part of the equation for the football program, or it can be a negative that simply provides another hurdle to overcome on the path to success. There is no way around the fact that for the last 100 years, and that compared to programs that the fans want Pitt to be competitive with, and even somehow believe Pitt is better than, that the fan base has most often been a hurdle not a boost.

People's negative attitudes towards the bowl games is absolutely indicative of one of the many problems with the program, and it only takes familiarity with other programs to know just how poor this fanbase can be.

 

[Swervin27]

I would love that too, but unfortunately that's not reality in college athletics.

yeah, it's done by ticket sales which is laughable and completely takes away any legitimacy at all towards the bowl season. I always considered these games glorified exhibitions but I think the "glorified" part is even a reach..

 

[Swervin27]

People's negative attitudes towards the bowl games is absolutely indicative of one of the many problems with the program, and it only takes familiarity with other programs to know just how poor this fanbase can be.

I don't have a negative attitude towards bowl season at all. I am pretty much the only one calling it what it is. 3 hours of entertainment, separate from the "real' season, a chance for a little cheap trip to a different city with a football game in the itinerary.

the people who are stuck in that old mindset of "new years day" bowl games is the problem here. that mindset hasn't been relevant since troy aikman was battling Rodney Peete at the coliseum.

 

[Swervin27]

It would be nice if everything and everyone was judged solely on their merits. Unfortunately, that doesn't matter one shit in the real world of college football, or perhaps in the reality of many other areas. We don't have rainbow riding unicorns flying out of the top of the Cathedral either.

Pitt fans have to start accepting, that in college football, they are actually significant part of the equation of the program. Pitt's fan base is currently a hurdle the program has to overcome (and has successfully overcome in the past), along with other aspects of the program like facilities, administration, resources, coaching, and general football talent. The fan base can either be a positive part of the equation for the football program, or it can be a negative that simply provides another hurdle to overcome on the path to success. There is no way around the fact that for the last 100 years, and that compared to programs that the fans want Pitt to be competitive with, and even somehow believe Pitt is better than, that the fan base has most often been a hurdle not a boost.

People's negative attitudes towards the bowl games is absolutely indicative of one of the many problems with the program, and it only takes familiarity with other programs to know just how poor this fanbase can be.

sorry paco, you cant have it both ways. you cant tell us that the bowl selection process is dependent on ticket sales then tell us this is a respectable process.. Problems with the program? We had a good season, 8-4.. our problems were mediocre De Backs.. We had even an average one, we are 10-2 and looking damn nice..

Our "problems" are fixable, very fixable and this program is sitting on a good foundation. Any issues in the past with our program was self induced, every time.. Fan donations had little if any impact on why we failed in the past. Sorry, I don't see the venue of a meaningless bowl game as any sort of indicator of us having problems.. Quit being a drama queen..

 

[Franb]

There is no fallacy at all. Attitudes like yours that Pitt fans have used as excuses to not show up to these games are why its fan base is considered among the poorest in the nation when compared to competitor and peer programs. It matters not one wit whether bowls are tourism gimmicks (they are), Pitt's fan base is terrible at attending these events compared to peers and Pitt's football program is judged and rewarded accordingly. Not to mention that Pitt's football program has been repeatedly stuck swallowing the cost of its unsold ticket allotments. The attitude you've demonstrated is absolutely part of the problem. Period.

You are missing my point. If Pitt fans want to support their team and program, let me suggest that, rather than spending several hundred dollars going to a bowl game, make that a contribution to the Pitt Athletic Department. That is supporting the Pitt program. Go to a bowl game if you see it as an entertainment opportunity in a city you want to visit, not as a way to support the program. The fact that schools can lose money by participating in these games says it all - they exist for the benefit of the bowls and tv networks, not for the schools or fans.

If Pitt was playing NU during the regular season, at NU, would anyone be urging Pitt fans to go to the game to support the program? Does anyone make that plea for any road game during the season? Only for bowl games is attendance at road games seen as some sort of measure of fan support. That is my objection - the notion that not attending these games shows a lack of support.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I don't have a negative attitude towards bowl season at all. I am pretty much the only one calling it what it is. 3 hours of entertainment, separate from the "real' season, a chance for a little cheap trip to a different city with a football game in the itinerary.

the people who are stuck in that old mindset of "new years day" bowl games is the problem here. that mindset hasn't been relevant since troy aikman was battling Rodney Peete at the coliseum.

Well that is fine, I direct my comments to the general fan base that I've witnessed on these message boards for 20 years.

There is a dedicated group that tries to get to these games whenever they can. I say that as someone that has been to 12 of the last 14 bowls while on a salary that was reflective of the typically poor state of academic training programs. Not everyone can get to these every year, for a whole multitude of reasons, but fans that understand and care would like to be at all of them. And that is the difference, because compared to other fan bases I've been fortunate enough to be familiar with, Pitt's group of these types of fans is not at all large enough. Last year showed promise of something changing. Pitt absolutely needs the fan base to turn out again this year, and for them to plan on turning out, if they can, the year after as well.

 

[CrazyPaco]

sorry paco, you cant have it both ways. you cant tell us that the bowl selection process is dependent on ticket sales then tell us this is a respectable process.. Problems with the program? We had a good season, 8-4.. our problems were mediocre De Backs.. We had even an average one, we are 10-2 and looking damn nice..

Our "problems" are fixable, very fixable and this program is sitting on a good foundation. Any issues in the past with our program was self induced, every time.. Fan donations had little if any impact on why we failed in the past. Sorry, I don't see the venue of a meaningless bowl game as any sort of indicator of us having problems.. Quit being a drama queen..

When did I say it was a respectable process? I will say this, if Pitt's fan base uses the process as an excuse to not show or support Pitt, it is just further evidence that the program has more chips stacked against it, and the finger points back at ourselves, as it has been for decades. If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. It is that simple.

Most things fans can't control. There is really only one thing they can control in the entire equation of a football program and it is currently viewed as a negative in the industry of college athletics, and the reality of the existence of that perception about Pitt is not debatable. Now people can argue why booster or fan support has been generally poor, and there are many reasons for that from past administrations to failed on-field performance, but each individual that cares enough about Pitt to read or post on fan message boards can easily look at themselves and determine if they have been there to buoy the program in times of hardship or not.

If you don't think fan or booster support factors into the equation for success of the program, in good times and bad, you are just absolutely plain wrong. Can it be overcome? Yes, and 1976 is proof of that. Is it a guarantee of success? Absolutely not, and ND and Texas are your examples. Does a lack of a fan support make it harder and more tenuous to achieve and sustain success? Absolutely, and every time a school with a 100K seat stadium poaches a coach from a school with a 50K stadium is evidence of that. And no matter what convoluted logic anyone employs to try to dismiss the importance of fan or booster support, it doesn't change the reality of the world Pitt is competing in.

 

[PITTLAW]

if this were entirely true, why would th RA Bowl select Miami? They wont sell any hotel rooms... they're 3 hours away. Miami already doesnt travel well, and the fans that do go will just drive to the game and go home.

Same thing with the Taxslayer and GT. Atlanta is close enough to Jax that the GT fans that go to the game arent getting any hotel rooms.

In both cases, even 4000-5000 Pitt fans wouldve done more for the "tourism" industry of Orlando and Jax than Miami or GT.

Because ticket sales are number one on the list; followed by hotel rooms, restaurant/bar, money spending fans, etc. Those bowl committee's that picked [fill in the blank school, ahead of Pitt] are betting that the school they picked will have greater financial return for them. By the way, you make a pretty largely false assumption that Miami and GaTech have primarily local fan bases. Both schools likely have quite a few fans that are "local," but many will need to travel [or decide to make a mini-vacation out of it]. For instance, I could easily train in and out on the same day for Pitt's Pin Stripe appearance from Philadelphia, but instead, I will make a mini-vacation out of it and spend a couple of days in NYC. Until Pitt proves to be a great financial partner, it is what it is. Hail to Pitt!

 

[Big Marty1]

Ive been to every game for 28 years. Forget if you think attendance numbers are off but this year, 2016, was the worst Pitt home support in memory. I'm done with caring about dopes who are missing out on geeat saturdays but how could any follower of us not come this year with the best offense in history and pasting the Nits and Clemson. Its bizarre. Again, my 12 season tickets are never leaving but the support here sucks. Dont complain about Pitt anymore if you dont come. I wish the games were blacked out within 100 miles so the lazy so called fans would get off their lazyboys.

 

[CrazyPaco]

You are missing my point. If Pitt fans want to support their team and program, let me suggest that, rather than spending several hundred dollars going to a bowl game, make that a contribution to the Pitt Athletic Department. That is supporting the Pitt program. Go to a bowl game if you see it as an entertainment opportunity in a city you want to visit, not as a way to support the program. The fact that schools can lose money by participating in these games says it all - they exist for the benefit of the bowls and tv networks, not for the schools or fans.

If Pitt was playing NU during the regular season, at NU, would anyone be urging Pitt fans to go to the game to support the program? Does anyone make that plea for any road game during the season? Only for bowl games is attendance at road games seen as some sort of measure of fan support. That is my objection - the notion that not attending these games shows a lack of support.

There are many ways to support the program. There are many ways by which programs are judged. No matter how crappy the bowl system is, fan attendance at these games is both a way the program is supported and judged and that isn't changing any time soon.

 

[PITTLAW]

The only good, driveable bowls we've been to since Majors II were the Charlotte bowls and both came after Big East Championship Game home losses in which we were playing for the Orange Bowl against Miami one year and the Sugar Bowl against Cincy. And of those games was the dreaded Dec. 26, in the afternoon to boot. I am sorry but no Pitt fans (or any fans) are going to skip Christmas for bowl game that amounts to the NIT after you lost a Championship game in the most crushing of manners.

Actually you are wrong--I was at both of those games in Charlotte, in addition to several thousand Panther fans. While December 26 is not ideal, we just had our Christmas dinner at lunch hour, so I could get to the airport Christmas evening to fly in for the game. Not really that hard to do. Hail to Pitt!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Because it is weird to determine matchups by ticket sales instead of merit.

Complain about Pitt fans all you want but smaller schools that are not situated near many bowl game locations are at a huge disadvantage for selection.

This is true. There is no other sport that puts the onus on its fans to pack up during the holidays to "support their team" for essentially a meaningless exhibition game. Spend money, time away from family at the very time where people want to spend time and money on their family. It is bullshit. Sorry. I love watching the bowls, but to divvy out these rewards just because Fan Base A is bigger, closer or dumber than Fan Base B is ridiculous.

Maybe there would be more interesting bowl matchups if they looked at the quality of teams and matchup. Like they used to do.

As for playoffs, they should just jettison half of the bowls and conf champ games, have a 16 team playoff, the first two rounds would be home games to the higher seeds and do it right. You can have a few "bowl" games in smaller venues.....focus on the matchup.

I don't want to hear about "tradition", they is absolutely NO TRADITION in college football. Time to do away with this garbage.