The national media loves the non-losing seasons. The fans don't because the Steelers are currently tied for their longest postseason winless streak in the Super Bowl era (1966-71) and Tomlin has only won a playoff game in 4 of 16 seasons (25%) despite 10 appearances. Noll won a playoff game in 8 (12 playoff appearances) of 23 seasons (35%) and Cowher in 8 (10 playoff appearances) of 15 season (53%).
Art Rooney II is the new Bob Nutting??
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Which brings us back to the OP. Will Art Rooney II ever put pressure on MT to win in the play-offs ?
Back on topic…
Zac Taylor and the Cincy Bungles, yes the Mike Brown Bungles, have won more playoff games in the last two seasons than The Steelers have in the last 12 seasons.
Let that sink in.
Zac Taylor and the Cincy Bungles, yes the Mike Brown Bungles, have won more playoff games in the last two seasons than The Steelers have in the last 12 seasons.
Let that sink in.
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He's a lock now. Tony Dungy is in the HOF.
The "Steelers Way". I hear this all the time, and especially with some of the more tenured media defending it. As been said on here, "the Steelers Way" is no longer special. They are just "a franchise".
The Steelers don't fire head coaches. The Steelers don't fire coordinators. Yada yada yada. The Steelers don't trade picks. The Steelers don't pay big guaranteed salaries.
The Steelers Way has yielded as many playoff wins as the Houston Texans over the past 12 years. The biggest perpetuator of "the Steelers Way" is Art Rooney II. Who as someone pointed out, has become Mike Brown.
The Steelers don't fire head coaches. The Steelers don't fire coordinators. Yada yada yada. The Steelers don't trade picks. The Steelers don't pay big guaranteed salaries.
The Steelers Way has yielded as many playoff wins as the Houston Texans over the past 12 years. The biggest perpetuator of "the Steelers Way" is Art Rooney II. Who as someone pointed out, has become Mike Brown.
No. Priorities are different for him. And a waiting list for tickets ensures he and the rest of team ownership (not that they matter) have no reason to care if they stink. Lots of suckers are still willing to plunk the several K down for .500 football. Ironically the same criticism given for not buying and attending games of the other inhabitant of the field (even though it’s frequently been wrong for a decade). There’s been tremendous mileage from those 1970s Super Bowl tires.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
That's not the threshold of greatness. Almost half of those seasons were 8 or 9 wins. He buried Pickett on his depth chart for six months and missed the playoffs because of it. He put a terrible, patchwork OL in front of his aging HOF QB and hired a college coordinator to run his offense. But yeah, he's able to be mediocre enough to keep a streak going.
All true but I think it’s misguided to compare AR to Nutting or Brown or any other money grubbing owner. The Rooneys aren’t cheap. They are clever with the cap but they spend heartily. It’s not the money. The revenue comes rolling in and they could probably charge anything they wanted. They (he) has a new philosophy that “principles” such as those you outlined above come first, middle and last.
The league is set up for parity so they never will likely stink so badly that it would cause peril to the finances of the franchise to go toddling along at .500 annually. He’s basking in the adulation of a “higher plane” of crass and crude football victories. But at no consequence financially (so far), so he has the luxury (for time being) to function amid these priorities.
As I mentioned, great for him, great for those causes and individuals he favors, but not so great for fans craving championships. But the fans keep spending and showing up so fool them once ( or 12 years) shame on them…or something.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Dungy had a dozen "non-losing" seasons in a row but he also was winning 10 games or more most of the time. Dungy was also a pretty disappointing playoff coach.
Tomlin has a lot of naysayers and I'm one of them that say he's never built anything in the way of a championship. He took the Ferrari, put a nice coat of wax on it, and turned the keys. Once that Ferrari started getting some wear and tear, he's won some races but he hasn't been able to beat the big dogs when it mattered.
On Dungy -
Dungy's winning % is 50 pts higher then Tomlin's and literally built from the ground up (Bucs).
Tomlin has lost to these QB's in the playoffs
David Garrard
Tim Tebow
Peyton Manning (the one that had a dead arm)
Joe Flacco
Thomas Brady
Blake Bortles
Baker Mayfield
Dungy lost to
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner
Donovan McNabb x2
Chad Pennington
Tom Brady x 2
Ben Rothlisberger
Phillip Rivers x2
Tony lost to 4 HOFers in Favre, Warner, Brady, and Rothlisberger and 1-2 possible ones in Rivers and McNabb.
Tomlin lost to 2 HOFers in Brady and Manning but we all know that version of Manning was a complete shell over what he was. Tomlin lost to a bunch of middle of the pack to bottom of the barrel QB's.
Do I think Tomlin gets in right now - probably.. Do I think he's a lock if he wins or gets to the super bowl - absolutely. That would prove he can actually build a championship team with his own guys.
Designed parity of the league allows this. They know they’ll get enough good players and other AFC teams will subside to the degree they’ll hit a good stretch here eventually when they’ll win 12 and then a couple playoff games and challenge for the big game. It has been overdue, but will come. The league has been set up to work that way after all.
Then everyone will be over the moon again as usual. For now, much like the Bucs dragging in Andrew Mccutcheon, the Steelers can beat the “No losing seasons” and the “look how Woke we are” drums and the faithful (including the obedient media) will nod and slobber.
For the actual win-craved fans, not hung up on long past glories and social gibberish, it’s frustrating. But what else is there? It’s the greatest show on earth. Baseball??? Never ever ever again. The playoff-doomed Penguins? They can’t get out of their own faded past. Certainly not Pitt sports. Maybe if/when PsU buys enough talent to finally break past Ohio State and Michigan, the town can go gaga over that. Until then, take your 9-8 and like it.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
They won 12 a couple of seasons ago and got boat raced by the Browns. Probably the most humiliating playoff loss in Tomlin's career and that's saying something for a guy that let Tim Tebow beat him.
When I was working, before I focused on family law, the initial firm I was with dealt with a number of generational family businesses, and there is a definite pattern. The first generation starts the business from scratch. The success of the business varies, but they work hard at it. Art Rooney was the first generation. From everything we know, he didn’t work as hard as the typical business creator and the Steelers were not successful until near the end of his life when he hired Chuck Noll. Noll’s scouting and drafting innovations, plus his coaching ability, were the major factor in their success. The Steelers were doing the equivalent of Pro Days with college players when other teams were drafting based on All American and All Conference teams. Rooney obviously greatly benefitted from that hiring and the legend of the Steeler Way was created.
The second generation of the family usually has been involved in the business since youth. If they are committed to eventually running the business (as opposed to, for example, going to medical school) and are competent, the business normally has its greatest success under their leadership. That was Dan Rooney. Without a doubt, the Steelers reached their pinnacle under him.
By the time of the third generation, there usually are more owners because there normally are more grandchildren than children. Some never get involved in the business; they just want their pro rata share of the cash flow. Some get involved. Their competence varies. Frequently, the business is sold or flounders when this generation is running it.
We once had a case where the business was founded by two former GIs after WWII. Both from different towns in Michigan and both had sold plumbing supplies before the war. Both came to California after the war and coincidentally bought starter homes on the same block. Still selling plumbing supplies, they met and started tinkering in one’s garage on weekends. Neither had any training, but if you ever had a hose and spray in your kitchen where you could switch the water flow from the faucet to the hose to clean dishes or vegetables, whatever, you almost certainly used their first invention: a diverter valve which goes in the faucet and diverts the water flow to the hose and spray. They also manufactured the hose and spray assemblies.
From there, they created other diverter valves — primarily to divert water from the bathtub faucet to the shower. They only made the diverter valves and they designed and patented a lot of them because each big plumbing supply company (American Standard, Delta Faucet, etc.) had slightly different setups. All six of the big plumbing fixture manufacturers in the US bought all of their diverter valves from them. The second generation of the business took the lead in this expansion. It was very successful. (As an aside, despite a basic monopoly on the patented products, between 1947 when it was founded and 1974 when it was sold, it raised prices ONCE. Not like businesses today.)
By the third generation, their were nine family members between the two families. Only two worked in the business; one was excellent; the other was just there. Both resented the fact that they had to split profits equally with the others. The side of the business run by the barely competent one began to suffer. The profitability dropped. The business was sold to a Fortune 500 company.
The current Art Rooney is generation three. He is at best marginally competent. With him running the show, a revival of the Steelers being something akin to a special franchise is DOA. Unless, of course, he hires the next Chuck Noll.
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Dan Rooney won nothing between 1980 and 2005. The Steelers have won two Super Bowls in 43 years. The four remaining teams in the AFC playoffs have won a combined two Super Bowls in 56 years. Our whining about the Steelers playoff record of late is pitthetic.
A guy living in Johnstown has a complacency problem. Consider myself shocked.
They had the lowest paid coaching staff in the league the past few years, and with Flores this year, I think it bumped up to 4th lowest.
We no longer hire upwardly mobile coaches. Again, I would have to think alot of this falls on Tomlin, because under Cowher, the staffs were rife with upwardly mobile and assistant coaches with big names.
If you asked 100 HOF voters why Dungy is in the HOF, 0 of them would say it's because of his time in Tampa Bay. Just like the the arguments for Belichick, he had either the best or 2nd best QB of all time. They are both great coaches, especially Belichick, but let's not pretend that at least half of their success came with having Brady and Manning.
He built Tampa from the ground up? Explain to me how what he did in Tampa Bay is any different from the slights lobbed against Tomlin? Warren Sapp, Hardy Nickerson, Derrick Brooks, John Lynch, Tony Mayberry, and Trent Dilfer were all there before him and formed the All Pro/Pro Bowl core of his Tampa teams (Dilfer less so). Three of them are in the HOF and Nickerson was named to the 2nd team All-Decade Team.
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My point is not that Dungy should or should not be in. But that he is in the HOF. So Tomlin deserves to be in also.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
yeah, and I agree with you. I was showing that it's ridiculous to point Dungy in Tampa and say "look what he built" when he inherited a team with 3 Hall of Famer players and an All-Decade Middle Linebacker, but then hold it against Tomlin that he inherited Ben, Ward, Faneca, Troy, and a handful of other mid-to-high level starters.
I have to agree. It’s getting way too chummy between the hall and high profile media types. Very promotional and watering the thing down. It should be incredibly selective to keep it special. And tell that cloud to move from over my house.
Does Hank Stram belong in the Hall of Fame? How about Marv Levy? Bud Grant?
Assistant coaches…meh. Jimmy’s and Joes. That’s what really matters. They largely sign and pay those. Just not always the correct ones any longer
As I said previously, people that root for/pay attention to the Steelers never extend Tomlin the same courtesy or forgetfulness that they allow for others.
At some later point, after he puts together another run with Pickett, the goalposts will move toward, "man, he was lucky to have two guys like Roethlisberger and Pickett. Anyone could win with those guys." Or, "he only won 2 Super Bowls with the talent he has, he should have beating Brady all those years and have 5."
It just gets ridiculous really. The guy is a stud. All-time coach. His guys consistently play hard no matter what. He wins no matter what.
How many two times super bowl winners are not in the HOF? My guess is 0. So that’s silly to say that people would say he’s undeserving. If Tomlin wins another super bowl, the number of people saying he shouldn’t be in the HOF will also be 0.
No to all three. Stram holds the infamous mark of being the first coach to lose to the expansion Buccaneers when he coached the Saints. Levy and Grant were very good coaches but not Canton worthy IMO. And neither is Bill Cowher.
George Allen is in the HOF. If he is, Tomlin is a slam dunk, 1st ballot.
Weeb Ewbanks, Dick Vermeil, Sid Gillman. You start looking these guys records, just like Grant, Stram, Dungy and Levy, there is no reason why Cowher and Tomlin shouldn't be in the HOF.
Weeb Ewbanks, Dick Vermeil, Sid Gillman. You start looking these guys records, just like Grant, Stram, Dungy and Levy, there is no reason why Cowher and Tomlin shouldn't be in the HOF.
That’s the thing. When they put guys like Joh Madden and Bill Cowher in, they lowered the bar. So of course guys like McCarthy, Tomlin and Harbaugh would get consideration. All it means is greatness isn’t a prerequisite.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I've said on here before that the NFL HOF is more a popularity contest than anything.
Warren Sapp and Brooks both have credited Dungy for that 2002 Super Bowl Season.
Warren said it best - "Tony baked the cake and Jon put the icing on it."
To understand how big the job was Dungy inherited when he was hired after the '95 season, remember that the Bucs had suffered 12 double-digit losing seasons in the previous 13 years. Losing was all the franchise had done for more than a decade. You had to overpay a free agent to play there.
Dungy completely changed the culture of that franchise. 12 double digit losing seasons prior to his arrival? C'mon - Tomlin never encountered anything like that.
When you say that Tony already had Sapp, Lynch, and Brooks - that's true. But,2 of them were playing out of position. It was Dungy that made Sapp an exclusive 3 tech and not having to 2 gap as a 1. It was Dungy that moved Brooks from the SAM to the WILL. It was Dungy that developed Lynch. Lynch was a backup who had did nothing prior to Dungy's arrival. Under Tony's tutelage, Lynch became an All Pro.
I’m still waiting for someone to explain why Tomlin is a great coach, stud coach, HOF coach, etc…but not one person will acknowledge hometowner Mike McCarthy as the same. Maybe I’m on the wrong message boards or listen and watch the wrong tv shows, but why doesn’t McCarthy get the same support?
Plus, if he doesn't get in the race card is played. But to me, based on some of the guys mentioned, he deserves to get in.
Well, numbers, his numbers compared to other coaches in the hall of fame, most of which are white, I can't see him left out.
I think you can say all of the following and all of it true:
1) Tomlin is a HOF Coach.
2) Tomlin has never lost his team.
3) Tomlin has more power and influence on the team the last half of his tenure than he had at the beginning. The 3 playoff wins in 12 years reflects negatively on these decisions.
4) Starting 2-6 and inserting a rookie QB and finishing 9-8 is a testimony to his resolve and motivation abilities.
5) It also reflects an actual pathetic schedule the last half of the season.
6) The franchise under Tomlin has gone stale. Need some high caliber guys on staff who will end up being head coaches.
7) Mike Tomlin would be out of work for only as long as he would want to be if the Steelers would part ways.
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