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OT: The mess that is the Penguins

It was a great run.
The team was screwed to play all those back2back games this year by the schedule makers. They just never seemed to have the “jump” this year. I blame the loss of character guys in Fleury, Bonino, Kunitz and Cullen. That locker room attitude carries over onto the ice. It was really strange not to see them come out and explode on the caps in the first period, but instead, play tight.

I think it’s going to be a busy year for JR over the next couple of months. I for one hope Letang retires. I think his trade value is extremely low right now and we would be eating at least 20% of his contract if they were to move him.

Thank fod Fleury is still playing. I have no idea what i’d do for my sports fill over the next 4 months without something to root for. Go Flower!!
 
Great run Pens. They just ran into a highly-motivated and well-disciplined Capitals team. No need to blow things up, but certainly the blue line needs to be addressed in some fashion this off-season.

Hey, if the Caps can beat the Pens, maybe it bodes well for the Steelers to finally take down New England.
 
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As much as I want them to move Letang, I think we all know deep down inside, they won’t.

Contracts they HAVE to move. Hunwick and Sheary.

Sprong needs a full time position on RW.

Gotta see if you can keep Sheahan at 2.5 and get Rusty at around 2.

You have to think Brassard will be much better next year, and at 3 mill, he’s a bargain.

I’d spend 4 mill and try and lure Crosby’s good friend Jack Johson here to solidify the D.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Brassard-Sprong
AstonReese-Sheahan-Kuhnhackl

Rowney

Dumoulin-Letang
Schultz-Johnson
Oleksiak-Maatta

Ruhwedel

Murray - Jarry
 
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PhPanther2 said:
As much as I want them to move Letang, I think we all know deep down inside, they won’t.

Contracts they HAVE to move. Hunwick and Sheary.

Sprong needs a full time position on RW.

Gotta see if you can keep Sheahan at 2.5 and get Rusty at around 2.

You have to think Brassard will be much better next year, and at 3 mill, he’s a bargain.

I’d spend 4 mill and try and lure Crosby’s good friend Jack Johson here to solidify the D.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Brassard-Sprong
AstonReese-Sheahan-Kuhnhackl

Rowney

Dumoulin-Letang
Schultz-Johnson
Oleksiak-Maatta

Ruhwedel

Murray - Jarry
Click to expand...
This is actually a solid plan.
 
Well, that's that. As I posted in another thread, there is definitely a relief, even a satisfaction that this was over. I don't think they were getting the credit they deserved until now for back to back Cups in this era, along with another trip to the 2nd rd.

It's worthless to try to assess blame in the fact that two fairly evenly matched teams, one who has not gotten much puck luck and was highly motivated got some puck luck and beat the Pens. But that is what happens. Again, I feel such a satisfaction in their accomplishments, so many great things were hoped for when we got Sid and Geno in back to back years. Well 4 Cup Finals, 3 Cup Championships, that is a resume that even if they don't win another playoff game, it is well etched in history.

Personally, as I watched the 3rd period in a downtown Chicago bar, distracted from my coworkers, I felt a real sense of relief when the Caps scored. It was a fun ride, but a ride that was time consuming and draining. Traveling each week, trying to plan trips around games, trying to see if hotels carry NBCSN (many still don't) and customer dinners and etc...around these games, I mean for a 2 month chunk over the past few years was a challenge and draining itself. Then the games, my god, just emotional rollercoasters of W's and L's which makes this run great. But it is draining, it is draining for the true fans, I can't imagine how much more it is draining for the players.

So this year they get 5 more weeks rest. Maybe get a bit more hunger back. Get healthy. They have essentially everyone back. There will be tweaks and some changes, but that is best left for another day, another thread.

I just think this franchise needs to be congratulated. Sure, they may have lucked into Crosby, but they did something with him. I can't hate Ovy and the Capitals, They deserved this. They earned this. It will be interesting to see this next series. What also makes it easy to palate, I just don't think this team was going to beat Tampa. So you know, save and reserve some of the energy for next year.

What a ride it has been. Thank you Pens.
 
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A couple minor tweaks may have helped, but ultimately they were just gassed.
Murray stepped up imo.
Brussard never gave them a spark they hoped for.
 
Awesome awesome awesome run. No question about it. Has been a really fun couple of seasons. I think I lost a few years off my life from the heart pounding moments over the last few playoff runs.

First class team and first class organization.

Congrats to the Caps... They simply played the more fundamentally sound game during the series with less mistakes and made more plays. Holtby was really good.
 
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PhPanther2 said:
As much as I want them to move Letang, I think we all know deep down inside, they won’t.

Contracts they HAVE to move. Hunwick and Sheary.

Sprong needs a full time position on RW.

Gotta see if you can keep Sheahan at 2.5 and get Rusty at around 2.

You have to think Brassard will be much better next year, and at 3 mill, he’s a bargain.

I’d spend 4 mill and try and lure Crosby’s good friend Jack Johson here to solidify the D.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Brassard-Sprong
AstonReese-Sheahan-Kuhnhackl

Rowney

Dumoulin-Letang
Schultz-Johnson
Oleksiak-Maatta

Ruhwedel

Murray - Jarry
Click to expand...

Agree... Solid plan.

Sheary absolutely fell off the face of the earth after getting paid. Simply amazing how far his game fell. His contract needs to be moved and perhaps a fresh start will do him some good.

Hunwick simply never panned out. I liked the signing at the time but he did not fit. Moving his contract would do the team much more good than keeping him around.

Letang.. agree with you that I don't see them moving him for a number of reasons. First his contact is bad for someone who just had the year he had. Also, with all that he has gone through, I don't see the Pens tossing him aside so to speak. He showed flashes at times of being a dominant defenseman and then at other times flashes of total incompentence. I think they give him another season to figure it out as he has had a few really tough seasons in a row off the ice before this one.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
Well, that's that. As I posted in another thread, there is definitely a relief, even a satisfaction that this was over. I don't think they were getting the credit they deserved until now for back to back Cups in this era, along with another trip to the 2nd rd.

It's worthless to try to assess blame in the fact that two fairly evenly matched teams, one who has not gotten much puck luck and was highly motivated got some puck luck and beat the Pens. But that is what happens. Again, I feel such a satisfaction in their accomplishments, so many great things were hoped for when we got Sid and Geno in back to back years. Well 4 Cup Finals, 3 Cup Championships, that is a resume that even if they don't win another playoff game, it is well etched in history.

Personally, as I watched the 3rd period in a downtown Chicago bar, distracted from my coworkers, I felt a real sense of relief when the Caps scored. It was a fun ride, but a ride that was time consuming and draining. Traveling each week, trying to plan trips around games, trying to see if hotels carry NBCSN (many still don't) and customer dinners and etc...around these games, I mean for a 2 month chunk over the past few years was a challenge and draining itself. Then the games, my god, just emotional rollercoasters of W's and L's which makes this run great. But it is draining, it is draining for the true fans, I can't imagine how much more it is draining for the players.

So this year they get 5 more weeks rest. Maybe get a bit more hunger back. Get healthy. They have essentially everyone back. There will be tweaks and some changes, but that is best left for another day, another thread.

I just think this franchise needs to be congratulated. Sure, they may have lucked into Crosby, but they did something with him. I can't hate Ovy and the Capitals, They deserved this. They earned this. It will be interesting to see this next series. What also makes it easy to palate, I just don't think this team was going to beat Tampa. So you know, save and reserve some of the energy for next year.

What a ride it has been. Thank you Pens.
Click to expand...
Totally agree Recruits. I had the bad luck to "officially" get the flu last week (confirmed with blood work), so I've watched the last 3 games literally from my death bed (it felt like that). I had an overwhelming sense of relief when the Caps scored the second goal. I thought it was just me because I feel so drained.

Having said that, I hope the Lightening kick the sh*t out of the Caps. I can respect but not LIKE Ovechkin and I would find it very funny to once again have the Caps fans hopes dashed.

Digressing, but I know why at risk people (elderly, kids, immune suppressed, etc.) can die from the flu. It's a term people use all the time, "Oh , I got the flu", but in reality it isn't common at all and the worse thing I have ever experienced.
 
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pitt-girl said:
Totally agree Recruits. I had the bad luck to "officially" get the flu last week (confirmed with blood work), so I've watched the last 3 games literally from my death bed (it felt like that). I had an overwhelming sense of relief when the Caps scored the second goal. I thought it was just me because I feel so drained.

Having said that, I hope the Lightening kick the sh*t out of the Caps. I can respect but not LIKE Ovechkin and I would find it very funny to once again have the Caps fans hopes dashed.

Digressing, but I know why at risk people (elderly, kids, immune suppressed, etc.) can die from the flu. It's a term people use all the time, "Oh , I got the flu", but in reality it isn't common at all and the worse thing I have ever experienced.
Click to expand...
Get well soon p-g!
 
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pitt-girl said:
Totally agree Recruits. I had the bad luck to "officially" get the flu last week (confirmed with blood work), so I've watched the last 3 games literally from my death bed (it felt like that). I had an overwhelming sense of relief when the Caps scored the second goal. I thought it was just me because I feel so drained.

Having said that, I hope the Lightening kick the sh*t out of the Caps. I can respect but not LIKE Ovechkin and I would find it very funny to once again have the Caps fans hopes dashed.

Digressing, but I know why at risk people (elderly, kids, immune suppressed, etc.) can die from the flu. It's a term people use all the time, "Oh , I got the flu", but in reality it isn't common at all and the worse thing I have ever experienced.
Click to expand...
PG. had it February and it knocked me down for 2 weeks. Not fun and I hardly ever get sick.
 
Some really good posts and observations.

Thing to remember is the Caps have a REALLY Good team. The fact that the PEns have beaten them to advance the past two years says just how good the PEns are. Keep in mind that the Caps finished ahead of the Pens in the regular season all three years and had the best record last year overall. To beat a team as good as the Caps, you have to be playing at a very high level. Clealry the pens were not as deep on D this year, were missing some character guys and never seemed to get on a roll, especially in the playoffs. In short they didn thave the edge they had the last two years.

Great post about offseason moves. I think Brassard is still a good acquisition and will pay off big time next year. Need to get some depth on D though and Murr has to regain his form. Im still not sure he didnt have a physical issue
 
When I was a freshman at PITT back in 1972, the Penguins were starting only their 5th year of existence. Growing up in a small, steelmaking town, I thought that it was the coolest thing to be able to walk down the steps from The Towers and hopping onto a bus on Fifth Ave. that would take me within a couple of city blocks of the Civic Arena for a quarter (I think).

One of the Pens' first rival in that expansion era was the St. Louis Blues, led by the 3 Plager brothers (Bob, Bill & Barclay). In 2009, HOF Hockey Writer, Dave Molinari, wrote a column to recognize the Pens' "Dirty Dozen Villians" who opposed them at the soon to be vacated, Mellon (Civic) Arena. Dave's choice for #1?
"1. Barclay Plager. St. Louis was the Penguins' first bitter rival and Plager, a rugged defenseman, quickly became the lightning rod for the Civic Arena crowd, probably because he usually was at the center of the bench-clearing brawls that were a regular feature of Penguins-Blues games. They'll have to tear down the building to get rid of the lingering echoes of the derisive, sing-song "Bar-KLEE" chants that rained down every time he stepped onto the ice here.
pitt-girl said:
Totally agree Recruits. I had the bad luck to "officially" get the flu last week (confirmed with blood work), so I've watched the last 3 games literally from my death bed (it felt like that). I had an overwhelming sense of relief when the Caps scored the second goal. I thought it was just me because I feel so drained.

Having said that, I hope the Lightening kick the sh*t out of the Caps. I can respect but not LIKE Ovechkin and I would find it very funny to once again have the Caps fans hopes dashed.

Digressing, but I know why at risk people (elderly, kids, immune suppressed, etc.) can die from the flu. It's a term people use all the time, "Oh , I got the flu", but in reality it isn't common at all and the worse uthing I have ever experienced.
Click to expand...
images
 
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pittbb80 said:
Some really good posts and observations.

Thing to remember is the Caps have a REALLY Good team. The fact that the PEns have beaten them to advance the past two years says just how good the PEns are. Keep in mind that the Caps finished ahead of the Pens in the regular season all three years and had the best record last year overall. To beat a team as good as the Caps, you have to be playing at a very high level. Clealry the pens were not as deep on D this year, were missing some character guys and never seemed to get on a roll, especially in the playoffs. In short they didn thave the edge they had the last two years.

Great post about offseason moves. I think Brassard is still a good acquisition and will pay off big time next year. Need to get some depth on D though and Murr has to regain his form. Im still not sure he didnt have a physical issue
Click to expand...


Don't know if Murray had physical issue or not. Certainly possible but I think he clearly had some Mental fatigue with everything he has gone through.
-Going through 2 Cup runs prior to this year
-Going through the Murray/Fluery debates, comparisons, losing a mentor, etc..
-Losing his father towards end of year. Let's remember he is 23. Yes he is a professional but that is young to lose your father.
 
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pitt-girl said:
Totally agree Recruits. I had the bad luck to "officially" get the flu last week (confirmed with blood work), so I've watched the last 3 games literally from my death bed (it felt like that). I had an overwhelming sense of relief when the Caps scored the second goal. I thought it was just me because I feel so drained.

Having said that, I hope the Lightening kick the sh*t out of the Caps. I can respect but not LIKE Ovechkin and I would find it very funny to once again have the Caps fans hopes dashed.

Digressing, but I know why at risk people (elderly, kids, immune suppressed, etc.) can die from the flu. It's a term people use all the time, "Oh , I got the flu", but in reality it isn't common at all and the worse thing I have ever experienced.
Click to expand...
Knock on wood!

I'm 67 never had a flu shot and as far as I can remember I never had the flu.
I've had stuff that makes me feel not great but never was " out of action."

On the other hand Mrs Buffett is about twelve years younger than I am and gets flu shots and she gets the flu every year which puts her " out of action" in bed to get better.
She stays in shape runs, rides a bike everyday so It has to be an immune system thing for various people which you can't do much about.

I started working fulltime in my career after college in 1973 and up until now I missed one day of work due to sickness. Actually it was when I was single and I got home a 4:30 am and my alarm went off at 5:00am. I saw three alarm clocks so I decided not to go to work that day.When that happens in golf they always say swing at the ball in the middle but that didn't work with the alarm clocks?

Knock on wood!

"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!
 
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pitt2533 said:
Don't know if Murray had physical issue or not. Certainly possible but I think he clearly had some Mental fatigue with everything he has gone through.
-Going through 2 Cup runs prior to this year
-Going through the Murray/Fluery debates, comparisons, losing a mentor, etc..
-Losing his father towards end of year. Let's remember he is 23. Yes he is a professional but that is young to lose your father.
Click to expand...

Just seemed like he was a bit awkward on some stops he made and was not as fluid in the net. I'd defer to goalieman who is he resident expert on goal tending but that was my observation.
 
pittbb80 said:
Just seemed like he was a bit awkward on some stops he made and was not as fluid in the net. I'd defer to goalieman who is he resident expert on goal tending but that was my observation.
Click to expand...
He took that puck off the mask earlier this series and went down, at first it actually didn't look good. He never came out of the game though. So who knows right now for sure, but maybe something happened there.
 
pitt2533 said:
Don't know if Murray had physical issue or not. Certainly possible but I think he clearly had some Mental fatigue with everything he has gone through.
-Going through 2 Cup runs prior to this year
-Going through the Murray/Fluery debates, comparisons, losing a mentor, etc..
-Losing his father towards end of year. Let's remember he is 23. Yes he is a professional but that is young to lose your father.
Click to expand...
pittbb80 said:
Just seemed like he was a bit awkward on some stops he made and was not as fluid in the net. I'd defer to goalieman who is he resident expert on goal tending but that was my observation.
Click to expand...

GREAT run by the Pens ...... they just didn't have quite enough this year, but their heads should be held high and they should be congratulated for what they have accomplished the last few years KUDOS !

Regarding Murray, I don't think many would doubt that he had a mediocre year both in the regular season and playoffs ..... probably several factors IMO .....

- Injuries seemed to set him back ..... concussion, lower body injury (I believe a groin injury during the regular season), and others .....

- His father passing seemed to be devastating to him and may well have affected his play .....

- I thought that he was not as technically sound this year as the last two years ...... his forte previously was good angles/positioning and he was able to track pucks, read the play, and move quickly and fluidly and I thought he wasn't quite as sharp in that regard this season ...... his glove hand was definitely a problem. Teams look at tape, see weaknesses, and go after them ...... during the regular season, there was a time when he was giving up 6 and 7 hole goals, which can be from problems with stick and glove positioning ..... rebound control was not always quite as good ......

Look at Game 5 against the Caps ..... on the 2nd goal, he didn't close the 5 hole, on the 3rd goal which was a high scoring chance/tough save situation breakaway, he didn't play it as well as he could have, on the 4th goal, he was badly out of position and in Game 6, the soft goal when he didn't seal off the post ...... all technical problems to me but somewhat of a microcosm of the season..... advanced stats showed that he gave up too many soft goals.

Sometimes he played breakaways perfectly and other times not as well..... needs to be a little more consistent.

- What can he do this off season ? ......

Just my opinion but I'd like to see him get a little stronger ..... may help to prevent some injuries, help with his movement, and may help him with all the physical contact and congestion around the net.

As far as dealing with his father's passing, hopefully tincture of time will help.

The biggest thing IMO would be to just go back to the basics and work hard on them ..... angles/positioning, movement, get the glove hand problems improved, work on closing the 5, 6,and 7 holes, blocker, stick, pad saves, rebound control, breakaways, playing the puck outside the net, etc. ....go back to basic technique on these and try to improve all.

If Murray works hard on his game and stays healthy, I expect him to have a great year next season ...... he has the ability.
 
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By the way, I thought Murray played outstanding in Game 6 against the Caps ..... he did give up the soft goal, but he made so many good and great saves to keep us in the game ..... Murray really gave us the chance to win Game 6 with his play, we just weren't good enough otherwise.
 
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Thought the Caps looked really good in Game #1 tonight of the ECF's ...... beat Tampa 4-2 ..... excellent game offensively, defensively, special teams, and in goal ..... long way to go in the series but Caps off to a good start.
 
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Was in Chicago all week, so have had little time to post. Again, great run. Last 30 years for this franchise, 5 Cups, 6 Finals, and 3 times it was back to back in the finals, a feat only accomplished 6 total times. It has been the NHL's best franchise over these past 30 years, don't think that can be disputed. Pretty amazing stuff if you go back and remember this franchise like I did in the 70's and PM (Pre Mario). Who would have ever thought it?

This run is not over yet. No major contracts are up, no expansion draft, sure there will be tweaks to the roster, but everyone should be back and more rested. The problem is, Tampa, Boston, Columbus, Toronto and Philly are still young and getting better. Washington, I think this is their shot. Not sure they can keep Carlson, core is getting older.

Again, I think I posted the Pens loss was actually a bit of a relief in many ways. This is such a tough road to get a championship, grueling for the fans, so I can't imagine what it is like for the players.
 
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Dr. von Yinzer said:
I agree with this article entirely.

They do need to bolster their blue line but starting off by trading their minutes leader is not the way I would go. I would bet on him being much better next year.

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/05/09/penguins-should-bet-on-a-kris-letang-rebound/
Click to expand...

Agree, I don't think the Pens will trade Letang nor should they ...... the Pens need to bolster their defense and if they get rid of Letang, it will be very hard for them to replace him with someone of equal or better value ..... in other words, getting rid of Letang probably means weakening their defense .... the Pens need to keep Letang and add to their defense.

IMO, we need to have 8 D-men available who can play at a good level in the NHL ...... I'm fine with Letang, Dumoulin, Maatta, Schultz and like Oleksiak who is young and improving although they will need to sign him as a RFA this off season. Ruhwedel played better then I thought he would in the playoffs....... Hunwick didn't work out so I suspect he will be jettisoned away ...... if so, that means getting 2 D-men in here who can play at an acceptable NHL level ... via trade, free agency, or from WBS if someone can step up their game.

Not many would disagree that Letang had a down year and the question is whether the multiple concussions, stroke, neck surgery, etc. have all caught up with him or whether he can rebound and play at a higher level next season ..... I think the Pens will bet that he can play better next season and will keep him ..... I would agree with that strategy but Rutherford needs to get a couple more NHL capable D-men in here before next season to bolster the overall defensive talent and depth IMO.
 
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I also think that next season, Daniel Sprong needs to be on the Pens NHL roster ...... all indications are that he improved his play away from the puck and defensively at WBS which is what the Pens said he needed to do while he was an excellent goal scorer there this season.

I don't think that the Pens would have beaten the Caps with Sprong playing in the series ..... but as it turns out, secondary scoring was a big problem for the Pens in the series and Sprong may have helped with that ..... and if Sprong has improved his game away from the puck, I doubt he would have been any more of a liability on defense then what we saw from the Pens against the Caps with all those odd man breaks for the Caps ..... we need to bring some young talent onto the team.
 
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goalieman said:
Agree, I don't think the Pens will trade Letang nor should they ...... the Pens need to bolster their defense and if they get rid of Letang, it will be very hard for them to replace him with someone of equal or better value ..... in other words, getting rid of Letang probably means weakening their defense .... the Pens need to keep Letang and add to their defense.

IMO, we need to have 8 D-men available who can play at a good level in the NHL ...... I'm fine with Letang, Dumoulin, Maatta, Schultz and like Oleksiak who is young and improving although they will need to sign him as a RFA this off season. Ruhwedel played better then I thought he would in the playoffs....... Hunwick didn't work out so I suspect he will be jettisoned away ...... if so, that means getting 2 D-men in here who can play at an acceptable NHL level ... via trade, free agency, or from WBS if someone can step up their game.

Not many would disagree that Letang had a down year and the question is whether the multiple concussions, stroke, neck surgery, etc. have all caught up with him or whether he can rebound and play at a higher level next season ..... I think the Pens will bet that he can play better next season and will keep him ..... I would agree with that strategy but Rutherford needs to get a couple more NHL capable D-men in here before next season to bolster the overall defensive talent and depth IMO.
Click to expand...
I agree on not getting value for LeTurnover.. He should have been traded before the deadline.. Now teams see what a Disaster he is on the Ice with and without the Puck. Hunwick, Sheary and Hagelin need to go at the Draft.


Dr von yinzer was missing because his Boy Kris LeTurnover was a Skating disaster every shift...
 
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goalieman said:
I also think that next season, Daniel Sprong needs to be on the Pens NHL roster ...... all indications are that he improved his play away from the puck and defensively at WBS which is what the Pens said he needed to do while he was an excellent goal scorer there this season.

I don't think that the Pens would have beaten the Caps with Sprong playing in the series ..... but as it turns out, secondary scoring was a big problem for the Pens in the series and Sprong may have helped with that ..... and if Sprong has improved his game away from the puck, I doubt he would have been any more of a liability on defense then what we saw from the Pens against the Caps with all those odd man breaks for the Caps ..... we need to bring some young talent onto the team.
Click to expand...
General Manager Jim Rutherford recently told the media that Sprong will definitely part of the regular lineup next season.
 
Letang has no trade value, that’s why you can’t trade him. You will be eating 20% of his salary and the prospects you get back will not be elite. Your best bet is that he retires, but that won’t happen.

John Carlson plays just as many minutes as Letang, has a shot that is a million times better than Letang, can actually run a power play, and is healthy. He’s a free agent and would be a HUGE upgrade over Letang....but we won’t have the cap space.

Oliver Eckman-Larsen is in the last year of his deal in Arizona. They never sign anybody, so I immagine they’ll be dumping him. JR should be calling to see what they want for him.
 
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