Pat Signals Raining Down

[9nationalchampionships]

Why are some on this board so averse to trusting the coaching staff's evaluation of a player? I saw a CB for a kid to ND and he had no ranking. If ND takes him he will all of a sudden become a 4*. If that same player chose Pitt he would move up to a 3*. Is ND's staff better at evaluating...NO.... it is the system!

I think this staff does an excellent job of evaluation of players....especially on the D side of the ball.

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

Based upon rankings this class is a drop off from last year. A lot of that has to do with the drop in talent locally between years. I get that ratings are imperfect and also that the staff has their own evaluation/ fit. But they had better be correct about fit or upside on more than a few because Pitt is in the bottom half of the ACC based upon those ratings. UNC, Miami and FSU are picking up. So is BC, and Geoff Collins after two 3-win seasons at GT is pulling a class that looks to be on par with what Narduzzi did last year after year 6.

 

[BurghGuy68]

wow, reading this thread, you guys scare me with how much stock you put in these overall rankings. you act like it's a scientific certainty or something. yeah, the teams that get the elite players usually are in playoffs, i get that. everyone gets that, you dont need a recruiting website to tell you who the elite recruits are. coaches have been identifying the elite football recruits since WW2, well before al gore invented the internet..

to say that your overall class ranking, something based on the accumulate rankings of players where 50% of them wont even finish their career at the school is just ridiculous... our '16 class was rated very high and over half didnt even make it past year 2 at pitt while many classes in the past ranked much higher, produced many more good football players.. i Can guarantee you if i look back, i'll find multiple pitt recruiting classes ranked in 30's and 40's that ended up much better than the few high ranked classes we landed..

quit being sheep with these rankings.. again, i know the top 4-5 teams gets the elite players and best classes and those teams win but that has nothing to do with these rankings and just the obvious the best programs get the elite players and the rest of us fight for players who no one can tell apart so they have to have them run around cones in their shorts in june to try and get more data from..

Agreed Zelda...these are decimal points we're talking about and they are subjective and biased evaluations. And there are unknown variables like how hard a kid works or is motivated in college, or if they've peaked in HS...look to Aaron Donald for exhibit A or all the 4 and 5 star busts over the years as exhibit B.

I trust the offers the most where they saw the kid perform in camp with their own eyes. Then their offer list. And then last and least important is the Rivals team's rating of a kid.

 

[WannyandWalt]

wow, reading this thread, you guys scare me with how much stock you put in these overall rankings. you act like it's a scientific certainty or something. yeah, the teams that get the elite players usually are in playoffs, i get that. everyone gets that, you dont need a recruiting website to tell you who the elite recruits are. coaches have been identifying the elite football recruits since WW2, well before al gore invented the internet..

to say that your overall class ranking, something based on the accumulate rankings of players where 50% of them wont even finish their career at the school is just ridiculous... our '16 class was rated very high and over half didnt even make it past year 2 at pitt while many classes in the past ranked much higher, produced many more good football players.. i Can guarantee you if i look back, i'll find multiple pitt recruiting classes ranked in 30's and 40's that ended up much better than the few high ranked classes we landed..

quit being sheep with these rankings.. again, i know the top 4-5 teams gets the elite players and best classes and those teams win but that has nothing to do with these rankings and just the obvious the best programs get the elite players and the rest of us fight for players who no one can tell apart so they have to have them run around cones in their shorts in june to try and get more data from..

We are a 7 win program under Duzz for 6 plus years , so the rankings are pretty much on target overall

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

We are a 7 win program under Duzz for 6 plus years , so the rankings are pretty much on target overall

If your average record is 8-5, then you are doing a good job as HC at Pitt.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

If your average record is 8-5, then you are doing a good job as HC at Pitt.

i'd sign up for 8-4 right now, regular season. that's a decent year IMO. 9-3 would be really nice. if we go 7-5, with this schedule, not gonna lie, i think im gonna start jumping off the duzzer bandwagon..

could absolutely care less about a bowl loss/win, completely irrelevant and a time to play the younger guys, hope the upper classmen who are looking at the nfl sit it out and see what you have for the following year

 

[pittdan77]

wow, reading this thread, you guys scare me with how much stock you put in these overall rankings. you act like it's a scientific certainty or something. yeah, the teams that get the elite players usually are in playoffs, i get that. everyone gets that, you dont need a recruiting website to tell you who the elite recruits are. coaches have been identifying the elite football recruits since WW2, well before al gore invented the internet..

to say that your overall class ranking, something based on the accumulate rankings of players where 50% of them wont even finish their career at the school is just ridiculous... our '16 class was rated very high and over half didnt even make it past year 2 at pitt while many classes in the past ranked much higher, produced many more good football players.. i Can guarantee you if i look back, i'll find multiple pitt recruiting classes ranked in 30's and 40's that ended up much better than the few high ranked classes we landed..

quit being sheep with these rankings.. again, i know the top 4-5 teams gets the elite players and best classes and those teams win but that has nothing to do with these rankings and just the obvious the best programs get the elite players and the rest of us fight for players who no one can tell apart so they have to have them run around cones in their shorts in june to try and get more data from..

Well, first off, you really didn't say how the rankings are wrong. Obviously projecting how good a kid will be by year 3 isn't science because a lot depends on effort along with skill.

I think rankings mean the most against your schedule. If you're not recruiting as well as Miami and UNC, how do you expect to beat them often enough to win your division? Take Rutgers. Everyone is gushing over their recruiting class and that's great for them but is it good enough to get past Ohio State AND Penn State AND Michigan? You can bring in a bunch of really good classes but what's your record if you can't beat those three?

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Well, first off, you really didn't say how the rankings are wrong. Obviously projecting how good a kid will be by year 3 isn't science because a lot depends on effort along with skill.

I think rankings mean the most against your schedule. If you're not recruiting as well as Miami and UNC, how do you expect to beat them often enough to win your division? Take Rutgers. Everyone is gushing over their recruiting class and that's great for them but is it good enough to get past Ohio State AND Penn State AND Michigan? You can bring in a bunch of really good classes but what's your record if you can't beat those three?

i agree which is why i am curious why posters say we'll never out recruit psu. we dont have too.

 

[cashisking884]

View embedded media

Lincoln Riley knows nothing about offense though.

I’m a huge advocate of H-backs. I’d love for us to go to a tempo offense with personnel we can flex all over the field.

Of course, that isn’t what we’re going to do, and that’s not a “fullback.”

 

[cashisking884]

wow, reading this thread, you guys scare me with how much stock you put in these overall rankings. you act like it's a scientific certainty or something. yeah, the teams that get the elite players usually are in playoffs, i get that. everyone gets that, you dont need a recruiting website to tell you who the elite recruits are. coaches have been identifying the elite football recruits since WW2, well before al gore invented the internet..

to say that your overall class ranking, something based on the accumulate rankings of players where 50% of them wont even finish their career at the school is just ridiculous... our '16 class was rated very high and over half didnt even make it past year 2 at pitt while many classes in the past ranked much higher, produced many more good football players.. i Can guarantee you if i look back, i'll find multiple pitt recruiting classes ranked in 30's and 40's that ended up much better than the few high ranked classes we landed..

quit being sheep with these rankings.. again, i know the top 4-5 teams gets the elite players and best classes and those teams win but that has nothing to do with these rankings and just the obvious the best programs get the elite players and the rest of us fight for players who no one can tell apart so they have to have them run around cones in their shorts in june to try and get more data from..

This just isn’t true. At all.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I don’t have one per se.

But every recruiting thread seems to be the same few posters saying, “recruiting is going great. Only the worst of the board can have any complaints.”

We don’t even have a .86 average recruit ranking on 247. That’s just not good. People can complain about that, and every specific recruit helping to make up that, and it would be justified. Including the ones you named, which have a “meh” rating.

Well I'm the one who said you shouldn't have complaints about the RB and WR recruit. Just because I'm not trying to turn everything into a negative, doesn't make me a blind cheerleader either.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

We are a 7 win program under Duzz for 6 plus years , so the rankings are pretty much on target overall

You're boring, a one trick pony. Take a break and try to come up with a new schtick.

 

[pittmeister]

No truth here just roses and rainbows

Here is truth….Nobody knows how good these kids are until they actually play…No roses or rainbows….just the truth….

 

[cashisking884]

Well I'm the one who said you shouldn't have complaints about the RB and WR recruit. Just because I'm not trying to turn everything into a negative, doesn't make me a blind cheerleader either.

I’m not trying to turn anything into a negative really. I haven’t posted a single thing about any recruit.

There’s just a lot of, “you can’t really have anything complaints about what we are doing on the trial” talking points through the recruiting threads. Which then leads to “okay, you’re not thrilled? Welp, there’s the nitter” posts.

Might only point, putting aside any one particular player, is that based on the recruit rankings, a reasonable person can have issues with the class as a whole and any one particular player. None of them are highly ranked.

 

[cashisking884]

Agreed Zelda...these are decimal points we're talking about and they are subjective and biased evaluations. And there are unknown variables like how hard a kid works or is motivated in college, or if they've peaked in HS...look to Aaron Donald for exhibit A or all the 4 and 5 star busts over the years as exhibit B.

I trust the offers the most where they saw the kid perform in camp with their own eyes. Then their offer list. And then last and least important is the Rivals team's rating of a kid.

What is an offer? How do you know it only came after a camp? Is the 8th grader offered by Ohio State able to claim that Ohio State offer even after he has stopped growing and Ohio State has backed off a few years later? Is the kid that committed an 9th grade and is a 5* but has completely shutdown recruiting and so doesn’t report many offers, a inferior recruit compared to the 4* that is all over social media and letting it be known he’s open to everybody?

Offers are the dumbest thing to use because they are the most subjective. And we don’t need to use them because we have a pretty accurate measure.

People love to pretend like the few top ranked classes matter, and after that it’s all about “coaching” and “fit” and blah blah blah.

But the accuracy of the star system holds up across all class rankings:

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...-matters-why-the-sites-get-the-rankings-right

 

[pittdan77]

i agree which is why i am curious why posters say we'll never out recruit psu. we dont have too.

Not right now. Right now, Pitt needs to improve every year and gain a reputation for being a football school.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

I’m a huge advocate of H-backs. I’d love for us to go to a tempo offense with personnel we can flex all over the field.

Of course, that isn’t what we’re going to do, and that’s not a “fullback.”

Lincoln describes his H/F back as one in the same. He calls them "math changers." They create gaps just by alignment not by movement. The defense must honor the math. If they can't root out a 5 tech in their gap scheme, they can't play at OU.

NDSU has fullbacks and Hbacks. They are very smart in how they use personnel and aren't dependent by personnel. The offense they employ is awesome. I'm a big JT O'Sullivan guy and he raves how much they scheme up stuff in 21/22/32 personnel matched with 10/11/12 personnel.

Tempo IMHO is both great and overrated. Tempo is great if you have a QB who is a true distributor who is high % passer who scores TD's in the red zone. If not, it's a dumb idea. It just wears out your defense. My favorite type of tempo is Canada's form. He stresses the defense by shifts and motions. It creates the same conflict to a defense that say Todd Graham's "left lane hammer down" style.

 

[cashisking884]

Lincoln describes his H/F back as one in the same. He calls them "math changers." They create gaps just by alignment not by movement. The defense must honor the math. If they can't root out a 5 tech in their gap scheme, they can't play at OU.

NDSU has fullbacks and Hbacks. They are very smart in how they use personnel and aren't dependent by personnel. The offense they employ is awesome. I'm a big JT O'Sullivan guy and he raves how much they scheme up stuff in 21/22/32 personnel matched with 10/11/12 personnel.

Tempo IMHO is both great and overrated. Tempo is great if you have a QB who is a true distributor who is high % passer who scores TD's in the red zone. If not, it's a dumb idea. It just wears out your defense. My favorite type of tempo is Canada's form. He stresses the defense by shifts and motions. It creates the same conflict to a defense that say Todd Graham's "left lane hammer down" style.

Right. Oklahoma uses guys they can move in and out. Whether that is upon initially lining up or motion, I don’t care as much.

And Lincoln can call it whatever he wants. The fact of the matter is he isn’t lining up Moose Johnson back there. And we shouldn’t be either.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Right. Oklahoma uses guys they can move in and out. Whether that is upon initially lining up or motion, I don’t care as much.

And Lincoln can call it whatever he wants. The fact of the matter is he isn’t lining up Moose Johnson back there. And we shouldn’t be either.

yeah, moose johnson with emmitt smith didnt have nearly the success rushing as Whipple and our running game had.. let's not make that mistake the cowboys did and stick with what is working. Our leading rusher had 630 yards last year in 11 games (1/3 of that coming in the final week), why would we want to get away from that?

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

Why are some on this board so averse to trusting the coaching staff's evaluation of a player? I saw a CB for a kid to ND and he had no ranking. If ND takes him he will all of a sudden become a 4*. If that same player chose Pitt he would move up to a 3*. Is ND's staff better at evaluating...NO.... it is the system!

I think this staff does an excellent job of evaluation of players....especially on the D side of the ball.

Well, it’s easy to be an “expert” when people can let their imagination go wild.

Like people who have their own “big boards” for the NFL draft. What do they know? They don’t have to know anything if they take a few draft experts’ opinions and form their own nonsense opinion and present it as some great insight.

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

yeah, moose johnson with emmitt smith didnt have nearly the success rushing as Whipple and our running game had.. let's not make that mistake the cowboys did and stick with what is working. Our leading rusher had 630 yards last year in 11 games (1/3 of that coming in the final week), why would we want to get away from that?

All we need is a few Nate Newtons, Stepnoskis, a couple Larry Allens and maybe an Erik Williams and a Novacheck but other than that, there’s no reason we couldn’t run it like Emmitt did.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

All we need is a few Nate Newtons, Stepnoskis, a couple Larry Allens and maybe an Erik Williams and a Novacheck but other than that, there’s no reason we couldn’t run it like Emmitt did.

Touché

 

[WannyandWalt]

Touché

Maybe a few 4 stars might help , classes full of 3 and 2's, not goin to move the needle , no matter how bad you want to believe so

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Maybe a few 4 stars might help , classes full of 3 and 2's, not goin to move the needle , no matter how bad you want to believe so

what does this have to do with anything we are talking about? who are you even talking to with this post.

 

[cashisking884]

All we need is a few Nate Newtons, Stepnoskis, a couple Larry Allens and maybe an Erik Williams and a Novacheck but other than that, there’s no reason we couldn’t run it like Emmitt did.

Right.

Why is this a difficult concept?

I’m not against us recruiting the greatest OL in the history of football and Hall of Famers at all the skill position.

But that isn’t going to happen, so the question becomes what gives us the best chance to be successful?

It’s not stacking the box with an extra blocker. If you surveyed 10 Defensive coordinators as asked them what would they prefer to face on a weekly basis in terms of the other team’s personnel and/or formation, that would be the answer 10/10 times.
That’s why OCs have gotten away from it. Shrinking the field and stacking the box is to your disadvantage.

Now some athlete that we can line up all over the field, in and out of the box, on a play by play basis, I’m all for. In fact I’m begging for those kinds of players and that kind of offensive philosophy.

 

[cashisking884]

what does this have to do with anything we are talking about? who are you even talking to with this post.

Well, if you want to run the offensive system the Cowboys we’re running, it has everything to do with it. Were going to have to out talent every team on our schedule if we’re coming out in 11 personnel.

 

[WannyandWalt]

Well, if you want to run the offensive system the Cowboys we’re running, it has everything to do with it. We’re going to have to out talent every team on our schedule if we’re coming out in 11 personnel.

Not a hard concept for most fan bases to grasp!

 

[pittguy81]

We are a 7 win program under Duzz for 6 plus years , so the rankings are pretty much on target overall

Pitt won 10 under Wanny and folks like you thought it wasn't good enough. Honestly your trolling is pathetically subpar......Yep

 

[cashisking884]

Well, it’s easy to be an “expert” when people can let their imagination go wild.

Like people who have their own “big boards” for the NFL draft. What do they know? They don’t have to know anything if they take a few draft experts’ opinions and form their own nonsense opinion and present it as some great insight.

But wouldn’t you say it’s those that are smitten with the class that are doing that?

One thing about “star gazers” is we don’t pretend to be scouts. You’ll never see a star gazer write, “oh wow look at his tape. Everybody else must be blind.”

We don’t pretend to be some expert scout that is actually knows what they are talking about. That’s why we go with the people that get paid to scout and the numbers show they do a pretty good job with their assessments.

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

But wouldn’t you say it’s those that are smitten with the class that are doing that?

One thing about “star gazers” is we don’t pretend to be scouts. You’ll never see a star gazer write, “oh wow look at his tape. Everybody else must be blind.”

We don’t pretend to be some expert scout that is actually knows what they are talking about. That’s why we go with the people that get paid to scout and the numbers show they do a pretty good job with their assessments.

🤔 who does this scouting? Or are these sites just sharing the bits of information they gather first hand and judging mostly by who is getting which offers to determine rankings. So in the end, most scouting is done by the actual coaching staffs, not website people.

 

[thom67]

I see both sides. Tommy Campbell won the PIAA AA 100M state title. Didn't really translate to much on the field. But I saw an article that what's-his-name (now coach at Nebraska, formerly of UCF) offered the Florida state title 100M champ every year. That year they went undefeated that running back they had was that recruit and was one hell of a match-up problem for EVERYONE, including the SEC team in the bowl game who was sad that they were playing UCF and didn't win the SEC. If you are going to take a flyer on a guy (and every team does), take one on a guy that can fly.

Pitt won 10 under Wanny and folks like you thought it wasn't good enough. Honestly your trolling is pathetically subpar......Yep

Wanna took over a ranked Pitt football team and proceeded to have the first losing season in 8 or 9 years. Even though Pitt played a weak schedule, Wanny won 42 games in 6 years which equals 7 games won per season.

 

[thebadby2]

Using a player’s self-reported offer list, which can be fake or a misconception of what constitutes an offer by the player, or doesn’t account for when the offer occurred in their high school (or even middle school) career, rather than the actual star ranking that does show a high correlation to future success, just
reeks of desperation.

But if people want to use it, that’s fine. I guess my only point is one doesn’t have to use it. Using the star system is a justifiable position to take. And so anybody arguing, “there can be no complaints about commits with an average 3* ranking” just seems silly. There kinda can if you’re going off of the most accurate All we need is a few Nate Newtons, Stepnoskis, a couple Larry Allens and maybe an Erik Williams and a Novacheck but other than that, there’s no reason we couldn’t run it like Emmitt did.

Having Emmitt at RB would help a bit too.

Since his name came up - I Played several games of pickup basketball with Emmitt and a bunch of UF football players in spring 1989. I was on spring break visiting a childhood buddy from Michigan who played for the Gators. Back then all the players lived in a dorm attached to the swamp. Spent my spring break week living between that dorm and my buddy’s girlfriend’s off-campus apartment. Both places equally off the hook. Wild ass time and place-a lot of fun. Emmitt was really cool and down to earth, especially for a 20 year old kid who knew he was about to be insanely wealthy. That was one epic week in my lifetime.

As for the pickup basketball, all I can say is it was a humbling experience.

 

[JokePa]

H2P

Some really talented players on campus right now!

I was out of pocket 2 weeks and now just getting all this news. Sounds like some great camps we had. It is difficult not to be impressed with Pitt on a nice weather weekend. Fantastic academics, great facilities, a ton to do, the Steelers right there. Coaches just have to close and seems like they are.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

I was out of pocket 2 weeks and now just getting all this news. Sounds like some great camps we had. It is difficult not to be impressed with Pitt on a nice weather weekend. Fantastic academics, great facilities, a ton to do, the Steelers right there. Coaches just have to close and seems like they are.

Agreed! These group visits of 8 to 10 players are really paying dividends for pit the last two or three years.If the weather cooperates everything else will take care of itself

 

[Dointhatrag]

Pitt won 10 under Wanny and folks like you thought it wasn't good enough. Honestly your trolling is pathetically subpar......Yep

Wanny averaged exactly 7 wins in 6 years (42 total) and 5.166 losses in the Big East. Same number of wins as Nard in 6 years, although likely Nard would have had more under a normal 2020 schedule + bowl game. Also the Team isnt under investigation for multiple disciplinary issues

 

[cashisking884]

🤔 who does this scouting? Or are these sites just sharing the bits of information they gather first hand and judging mostly by who is getting which offers to determine rankings. So in the end, most scouting is done by the actual coaching staffs, not website people.

Wut?

 

[steelcurtain55.]

🤔 who does this scouting? Or are these sites just sharing the bits of information they gather first hand and judging mostly by who is getting which offers to determine rankings. So in the end, most scouting is done by the actual coaching staffs, not website people.

Most of these guys aren't "scouts" by any sense of the word. They're digital media professionals.

 

[WannyandWalt]

Most of these guys aren't "scouts" by any sense of the word. They're digital media professionals.

Let me ask , under Duzz we land avg 2 and 3 stars , and our results have been avg 6 7 wins, how off have they been? THEY BEEN ON TARGET MORE THAN THIS BOARD EACH YEAR

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Let me ask , under Duzz we land avg 2 and 3 stars , and our results have been avg 6 7 wins, how off have they been? THEY BEEN ON TARGET MORE THAN THIS BOARD EACH YEAR

Why aren't these "scouts" rewarded with job offers at Universities across the country?

Why does Duzz continue to churn out defensive guys to the NFL pretty regularly?

Your answer as to why the wins haven't exceeded 7 or 8 wins is more or less due to the fact we haven't had a game changer at QB for quite some time. The QB position is treated differently when it comes to rankings. A difference maker at QB is worth more than 5 stars.

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

Most of these guys aren't "scouts" by any sense of the word. They're digital media professionals.

Exactly. Content baby!