I can tell you were the red was 12 yards at least to the left of CV
Not in position to determine that call accurately
The ref was correct, here is the rule clarification from the rulebook
- Thread starter Sean Miller Fan
- Start date
Not in position to determine that call accurately
But there is clarification in the training that they give referees each year.
I can no longer find the original demonstration video on sliding from before the season that showed examples of how to interpret the rules for the upcoming season, but these videos are from the NCAA's officiating coordinator and I've bookmarked them to the slide rule sections.
The ref that was in bad position to spot the ball somehow still ended up spotting it pretty darn accurate because he put the ball right where it was in that still photo showing CV’s feet forward and his butt lowered. Remember, the ball was in his back/left hand at that moment, a good yard behind the down marker. Go look at the still photo.
Good find. These videos define the begin of the slide when you lower your butt. However, I went back to the play and freeze-framed it and he's still short though a little closer.
Ok - good post. Here's how I see it. I think when the rule reads "starts his slide" they MEAN "his knee hits the ground but NOT the forward progress of the slide". BUT if you were someone who has memorized all the words of the rule book but not understood the meaning, you could interpret the instant the runner breaks stride and is leaning back to slide as "START" to slide.
OK. Its the same rule. But the 2 sentences define 2 separate situations with 2 different outcomes.
I don't care about anything beyond that.
Correct, 2 different outcomes, but the same beginning. And the beginning is what counts. Once any part of the ball carriers backside begins to lower its a dead ball whether he goes down or not.
I don't see how this guy is arguing what the rule says. We can argue whether the rule needs changed but its pretty clear in that there are different rules for real slides and fake slides.
Watch the NCAA videos posted above and educate yourself. I'd also love to see a fake slide where the ball carrier doesn't lower his backside. The laws of physics be damned because NCPitt failed reading comprehension.
The video does not show a fake slide. The rule on fake slides does not state anything you claim.
Seems to me that you failed, not me.
You forgot that you already admitted it was the same rule. I'm still waiting to see this revelation from the rulebook about hitting the ground lol. I'm going to pop some popcorn while I wait for your evidence.
Remember this: "Slide = "move along a smooth surface while maintaining continuous contact with it". That means the "slide" part starts when any body part other than feet begins to contact the ground." -NCPitt
Duh.
The ACC cleared up the butt drop aspect yesterday. Until then, it was unclear to not only me, but all other posters here. The rule doesn't say anything about it.
The rules are contained in the same paragraph but remain different. I don't get why you can't understand that. Instead, you make up your rule.
the only defense pitt fans have on this call is that the one on travis jordan was worse lol. not really a great argument fellas. the spot / call was correct, the refs screwing duke over 4 hours later in a different state doesnt change that..
rule schmule....nothing is 'clear' to a ref three yards behind the play who decided to make an educated guess on a play where the qb was obviously going to gain the line to make to end the game....
Right. They should have just given him the 1st down and not awarded Wake the ball on a technicality. But the call ended up being technically correct even if he made the call from space.
You:
Also you: "OK. Its the same rule"
Me: (copies and pastes rule from rulebook)
You: "you make up your rule"
pittdan77
Athletic Director
The fact that you had the exact same play called two different ways within hours of each other in the same conference is pretty bad. Seems obvious that the rule isn't as clear as the OP wants to claim.
CFB is plagued with this kind of sloppiness every weekend. Ask an Iowa fan.
CFB is plagued with this kind of sloppiness every weekend. Ask an Iowa fan.
in college, why wouldnt you just dive forward? No chance a defender is going to also dive headfirst into you, he'd be ejected immediately. and the second you are down, the play is over but the ball will be marked at least 2 yards in front of where it would be if you slid.
In the nfl, i get it, you need some big ones to slide headfirst but in college, ball is dead immediately. just dont understand why they slide soo much in college when a head first fall/dive would be the same outcome with 2+ yards..
In the nfl, i get it, you need some big ones to slide headfirst but in college, ball is dead immediately. just dont understand why they slide soo much in college when a head first fall/dive would be the same outcome with 2+ yards..
pittdan77
Athletic Director
It was an obvious "rookie" mistake to not dive forward or just run out of bounds. The kid was trying to do what he thought was the right thing. If Pitt is awarded the first down, and they should have been, nobody would have even noticed. It's not like WF would have complained either. Clock runs out and the game is over.
on the bright side, that's a mistake you probably only make once. especially when it cost you the game.
This whole concept of sliding to run out the clock instead of just playing normally is also getting into players heads too much, for example, previous Steelers game vs Ravens, when Pickens got the game winning TD with a minute left there where idiots on social media complaining that he screwed up he should have slid down at the 1 yard line so they could run out the clock and score later after more time expired, to me that's insane! I'd rather take the TD and the guaranteed lead than risk something going wrong later.
The rule stinks and it's never going to be accurate based on someone's "interpretation of a slide"! Make it definitive - either when the butt or knee HITS THE GROUND...not when "YOU THINK" someone is starting to slide.
Yes, it is clearly this, as this is the rule for being down, and the fake slide rule is a subset to this actual rule.
It isnt rocket science... here is the definition of a SLIDE
slide
/slīd/
verb
move along a smooth surface while maintaining continuous contact with it.
"she slid down the bank into the water"
Does this clear it up for you???? The start of a slide, is when you first move along a smooth surface while maintaining continuous contact with it.
This is what I said. Those 2 yards are always important. Maybe not as crucial as in this last game but its 2 free yards. Just frickin dive. On 1 out of 10 of these plays, the defender is barreling down on you and is going to light you up so ok, in that case, fine, slide and penalize your team 2 yards. In every other case, dive.
The spirit of it is to stop the forward marking at the same point that you can no longer hit him. So it’s before another body part hits because you can’t hit him on the way down either.
You see this all the time marks before the guy actually touches the ground.
But to keep my point from earlier - my issue is that those little prep steps to slow himself down really wasn’t the start of the actual plop down.
Agree. It's also why you never slide in a situation like that. You can't give the official any reason to make an interpretation that will screw you. As Pitt fans know. we will get screwed.
I realize we're not dealing with brain surgeons here, but he has to know this. He should also know that he can run out of bounds. I think he just got caught up with how open it was and just reacted with a slide, thinking he had it easily. He won't do it again.
This makes total sense; you can see exactly when the body part hits the ground on a replay.
That became clear yesterday when the ACC clarified when the slide stops. I wrote that before anyone here had any idea how the rule was to be interpreted. It still makes no sense to me to differentiate ground contact on a slide from ground contact on every single other play.
And it shouldn't. If you slide, you should be down when you are down. You shouldn't receive a 2 yard penalty for protecting yourself.
Did the ACC clarify that slide where the FSU QB started to slide 2 yards short of a 1st down and was awarded a 1st down? I hope nobody here is rationalizing or defending that one
Actually nobody noticed anywhere… not PITT players or Wake Players or fans in the stadium or people watching on phones or TV
Until… the ref (who wasn’t at all in position) decided to “be the show”.
Facts
Three times (not in the same conference, but overall), because the same play happened at the end of the Arizona State - Washington game.
Ours was the only one where the offensive player did not get the benefit of the doubt.
The entire point is that they aren't protecting themselves, but the act of sliding gives them the protection. If CV would have been nailed by a defender from the point that they ruled him down to before he was physically down we'd be losing our minds if they hadn't called a penalty.
The rule is fine, it needs to be called consistently and needs to be challenged by the god damn coach if it's a game-deciding call.
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