UCF is going to get in a P5 conference

[cashisking884]

No that was PSU, most welcome rivalries. Virginia welcomed in Virginia Tech

UVA had no pull in the ACC to stop it.

All the programs in the SEC have a pact not to vote to allow in an in-state rival.

Miami and FSU aren’t going to say, “Hey, you know what we should do? We should legitimatize another in-state school for us to have to compete with on the recruiting trail. That won’t impact our programs at all.”

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

No they didn’t. Not willingly at least
They were forced by their governor
And Virginia Tech was a BCS school before joining the ACC.
Ucf is not, so the situation really isn’t the same.

Thank you
The revisionist history is comical

 

[pittdan77]

Likely nothing.
If anything, it hurts their chances
Think Ohio State and Michigan want to add a legit opponent to gunk up their season and ruin their chances of reaching the playoffs? Nope
Think the Purdue’s and Indiana’s of that league want another obstacle to reaching a bowl? Nope
Rutgers and Maryland have been perfect for them

Bottom line is, if the Big ten or anyone else thinks Ucf will make them more money, they’ll be invited
Though frankly, I think Ucf is better off under their current situation

That's my point. Rutgers is a perfect example. In that regard, Houston makes a better argument than UCF. Heck, even Temple would help the Big12 more than UCF.

 

[jsawyer95]

So I didn't read all the comments, so someone might have said this already.
The problems that UCF and USF are the other P5 schools. They're not on the B1G radar as potential school to add( it's more than football).
The most logical thing that would be some combination of FSU/Miami/ND joining other conferences. The question is what does the ACC do? That would open the door.

 

[pittdan77]

So I didn't read all the comments, so someone might have said this already.
The problems that UCF and USF are the other P5 schools. They're not on the B1G radar as potential school to add( it's more than football).
The most logical thing that would be some combination of FSU/Miami/ND joining other conferences. The question is what does the ACC do? That would open the door.

Maybe. But that door is closed into the 2030's with various agreements and GOR's. The B1G and SEC have to really add a lot of value to make it worth any addition.

If you go further back in this thread, there's also an argument that it's silly to assume that UCF continues to win 9 or more games if they move to the P5.

 

[UCF_4367]

Exactly, because UCF wasn't a value add.

Poor choice of words. UCF adds value—just not enough to where the Big 12 wants to think about how it shares revenue. If BYU has less restrictions UCF/BYU would have been added.

 

[pittdan77]

Poor choice of words. UCF adds value—just not enough to where the Big 12 wants to think about how it shares revenue. If BYU has less restrictions UCF/BYU would have been added.

Semantics. UCF is also running its athletics on empty and charging four or five times the athletics fees to students as everyone else in the Big 12 with the hopes of hitting the lottery during expansion. It's a huge gamble for the Big 12 to bring in a school that is doing that and could end up taking the life of the GOR to recover. How the heck does that add value? UCF fans also conveniently ignore that they're not going to just jump in and run the table. Being a big fish in a little pond is much different than being a big fish in an ocean.

The Big 12 has to add something to make the next TV contract worth it. ESPN gets UCF at a pretty nice discount, now. They can easily add schools from the Pac 12 (that is oversold) and get the value they crave.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

What am I missing? Are we in expansion mode again? Or did I just waste my time waiting for my next appointment?

 

[dougpaper]

would love to see Notre Dame commit in football to the ACC but probably so many $ they don't need to. That would solitify the ACC and I am sure The Big would love Notre Dame and probably is always trying to back door that fit. While I am dreaming Auburn would solidify our eastern network. I still dream about hitting the powerball every time I play.

 

[Pitt79]

Right, because the candidates for expansion, didn't move the needle.

Really? Outside of Pitt, the team I am most interested to watch when they are on is UCF, especially when they play a P5 team, so I can root for them. I mean other than Pitt, I expect them to pound the crap out of Pitt these days.

 

[Knight_Fyre]

Semantics. UCF is also running its athletics on empty and charging four or five times the athletics fees to students as everyone else in the Big 12 with the hopes of hitting the lottery during expansion. It's a huge gamble for the Big 12 to bring in a school that is doing that and could end up taking the life of the GOR to recover. How the heck does that add value? UCF fans also conveniently ignore that they're not going to just jump in and run the table. Being a big fish in a little pond is much different than being a big fish in an ocean.

The Big 12 has to add something to make the next TV contract worth it. ESPN gets UCF at a pretty nice discount, now. They can easily add schools from the Pac 12 (that is oversold) and get the value they crave.

I'm not entirely sure what athletic fee's that students pay has anything to do with conference re-alignment. In fact, it's completely irrelevant. Taking a program that has the largest enrollment in the nation will translate to generations of viewers. UCF is dead center in a fertile recruiting ground, and has proven year after year that it brings a bunch of eyeballs to ESPN's product. That's while it plays a G5 schedule. It's not a huge gamble. There is data that hedges that bet.

You talk about ESPN already getting UCF at a discount now, look at Rutgers. Do you honestly believe Rutgers brings the NY market? If so, look at how ESPN could have been rolling in the dough keeping them in the AAC.

The difference between UCF and Rutgers is that one program is committed to athletics and has a perfect stomping ground for feeding the machine. The other will always be relegated as a doormat for tOSU and Michigan.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

underscore _ hmmmm

I'm not entirely sure what athletic fee's that students pay has anything to do with conference re-alignment. In fact, it's completely irrelevant. Taking a program that has the largest enrollment in the nation, in a fertile recruiting ground and has proven year after year that it brings a bunch of eyeballs to ESPN's product while in the G5 is not a huge gamble. There is data that hedges that bet.

You talk about ESPN already getting UCF at a discount now, look at Rutgers. Do you honestly believe Rutgers brings the NY market? If so, look at how ESPN could have been rolling in the dough keeping them in the AAC.

The difference between UCF and Rutgers is that one program is committed to athletics and has a perfect stomping ground for feeding the machine. The other will always be relegated as a doormat for tOSU and Michigan.

 

[Knight_Fyre]

That's my point. Rutgers is a perfect example. In that regard, Houston makes a better argument than UCF. Heck, even Temple would help the Big12 more than UCF.

This is actually wrong on both accounts. The first being that Houston and Temple aren't doormats like Rutgers is and could threaten tOSU/Michigan's run.

The second point is that despite the fact that both teams are in a larger media market does not automatically mean that translates to viewership. A simple look at game ratings and football attendance will show you that UCF trumps both in TV viewership despite having a smaller market.

 

[dali drama]

Coming up for the Pitt Game in September. Asking for recommendations and must-dos for 36 hours in the Steel City.

 

[pittdan77]

I'm not entirely sure what athletic fee's that students pay has anything to do with conference re-alignment. In fact, it's completely irrelevant. Taking a program that has the largest enrollment in the nation will translate to generations of viewers. UCF is dead center in a fertile recruiting ground, and has proven year after year that it brings a bunch of eyeballs to ESPN's product. That's while it plays a G5 schedule. It's not a huge gamble. There is data that hedges that bet.

Massive student fees are a huge red flag when it comes to the financial health of the athletics department. If UCF is in such great shape, why the huge fees? Also, bragging that your school is a diploma factory is a bad look. Won't help the argument at all. Like I said, ESPN isn't paying much for UCF. The "year after year" of bringing eyeballs is a recent phenomena and probably won't last any longer than Boise State did. The question is more about what UCF will bring to the Big 12 inventory. Nobody is answering that question. It's a huge risk to take a G5 school and elevate it to P5 when the Big 12 could easily look for a Pac 12 school or two to poach.

 

[pittdan77]

This is actually wrong on both accounts. The first being that Houston and Temple aren't doormats like Rutgers is and could threaten tOSU/Michigan's run.

The second point is that despite the fact that both teams are in a larger media market does not automatically mean that translates to viewership. A simple look at game ratings and football attendance will show you that UCF trumps both in TV viewership despite having a smaller market.

Attendance has nothing to do with TV viewership. Ask the NFL how declines in attendance have affected the bottom line. It hasn't. It also isn't bothering ESPN when it comes to investing in CFB. Also, no G5 school is going to jump to P5 and compete in a full conference schedule. Rutgers may be a cluster but they added value to TV.

 

[Chem95]

Poor choice of words. UCF adds value—just not enough to where the Big 12 wants to think about how it shares revenue. If BYU has less restrictions UCF/BYU would have been added.

UCF does add value. The enrollment and location (Orlando) are huge plusses. Here comes the BUT.... The Pac 12 ain't happening. ACC & SEC already have a presence in FL. The BIG...have their eyes elsewhere. Like actually getting into the Playoff. It would make a lot of sense for the Big 12. I bet if you asked them, 8 out of 10 teams would say 'Go for it". But, the two that aren't saying it are the ones who have the final say.

 

[UCFBS]

Semantics. UCF is also running its athletics on empty

Athletic fees at UCF are <$20M of its $60M+ (now $70M+ revenue with the new TV deal). Are you confusing UCF with Ohio or something?

The Big 12 has to add something to make the next TV contract worth it. ESPN gets UCF at a pretty nice discount, now.

Yes. UCF's TV ratings in 2013-2014 would have bested the Big XII mean, but in 2017-2018, they would be #3 to Texas and Oklahoma.

I don't think people realize how many people in the southeast are watching UCF, and how much of a following UCF has with many G5 teams, as well as more and more P5 fanboys who are tuning into the AAC like they used to the Big East. The latter's accomplishments in its final 6 years were worse than the first 6 years of the AAC.

Seriously, go look at the games on ABC and ESPN. Even top AAC v. AAC games are challenging those outside of the Big Ten and SEC. Yes, even the ACC, let alone Big XII (other than Texas and Oklahoma) and PAC-12 struggle -- even the top teams in several, like anyone but Clemson in the ACC or most PAC-12 at all!

Again, a lot of people in the southeast are watching UCF. Even before UCF beat Auburn, Birmingham was a huge market. Why? I live here and every UAB fan is rooting for UCF, and more and more SEC fans are actually liking UCF, especially when it takes away Florida and FSU's audience -- despite the talking heads on SEC TV shows saying others.

That's why UCF is extremely attractive. The problem?

ESPN is losing money and no matter how much UCF would improve the TV ratings for the Big XII conference, it's not going to give the Big XII any more money. If this was 2009, UCF would be a shoe-in. But it's 2019.

 

[Mikefln]

Utah was UCF before UCF. Now they are an also ran in the PAC-12. Boise St had a nice run. BYU. My point is UCF is on top of the G5 world right now, but they will not stay there. The P5 conferences know this. They are looking at what does UCF add to our conference when playing p5 teams consistently with a 5 year span with something like 10-2, 9-3, 8-4, 9-3, 7-5?

If the conferences think that UCF with records like that still add value, then they will be added. I personally don't think UCF adds any value to a conference with good not outstanding records.

 

[UCFBS]

Utah was UCF before UCF. Now they are an also ran in the PAC-12. Boise St had a nice run. BYU. My point is UCF is on top of the G5 world right now, but they will not stay there.

UCF is in the southeast US. That is everything to college football!!!

Look at UCF's TV ratings the entire decade, not just 2 years.

Everyone brings up 2015, but forgets 2013. And even in the '00s, UCF had 30K+ at home games, once the OCS was built. That's twice as many as Miami gets at home during their so-so years. And Miami has long admitted they slipped to #4 in the state, behind UCF, no longer just in attendance, but in TV viewership, by a wide margin -- well before 2017-2018.

It's why writers at the NY Times, USA Today and others were not just clammoring for the Big East to add UCF by 2009, but said the Big East was stupid to take USF all-sports when UCF was willing to take a football-only invite just a half-dozen years earlier.

The P5 conferences know this. They are looking at what does UCF add to our conference when playing p5 teams consistently with a 5 year span with something like 10-2, 9-3, 8-4, 9-3, 7-5?

But what about 3 NY bowls in 6 years -- with 2 wins over #5-7 ranked opponents -- and beating 3 out of their last 5 AP Top 10 teams?

Even UCF is approaching Boise's in-conference win record this decade. Everyone needs to look at 2015 as fluke, and not forget 2013. But no, UCF hasn't been in FBS forever or did great things in its first decade-plus of FBS.

But considering UCF is the youngest program to win a BCS game, or CFP game, and done both, and was less than half as old as #2, UCF is here to stay. Especially being in the southeast US.

That's why one of UCF's biggest markets is Birmingham, AL, even before UCF beat Auburn. It has a huge following for a G5. Everyone keeps ignoring the money.

And ESPN isn't giving out any more when it's losing on some of its current contracts. That's the only reason UCF isn't in the Big XII, it was just a decade too late.

 

[Knight_Fyre]

Massive student fees are a huge red flag when it comes to the financial health of the athletics department. If UCF is in such great shape, why the huge fees? Also, bragging that your school is a diploma factory is a bad look. Won't help the argument at all. Like I said, ESPN isn't paying much for UCF. The "year after year" of bringing eyeballs is a recent phenomena and probably won't last any longer than Boise State did. The question is more about what UCF will bring to the Big 12 inventory. Nobody is answering that question. It's a huge risk to take a G5 school and elevate it to P5 when the Big 12 could easily look for a Pac 12 school or two to poach.

I don't think you understand how much college football costs have ballooned in the last 30 years. You honestly think any media partner even questions that many Universities have had to subsidize their athletics department due to the massive imbalance in conference revenue?

Think about the flip side of that for a second. Are you insinuating that ESPN et al... are expecting programs compete with P5 programs, and run a program solely based on ticket revenue/concessions and a paltry G5 media contract payout? You honestly can't be serious.

"Also, bragging that your school is a diploma factory is a bad look."
No where did I say UCF is a diploma factory. Having graduated from UCF, I can assure you that the curriculum is quite difficult. UCF has a reputation of "You Can't Finish."

Pitt was founded in 1787, UCF was founded in 1968 - that's almost a 200 year head start. Yet despite that, Pitt's average SAT and GPA is 1330 and 4.14 respectively. Contrast that with UCF's 1235 and 3.93. That's not exactly light years ahead of UCF considering the fact that we have MORE than double the student population of Pitt. Obviously the smaller the school, the more selective you can be and yet the divide really isn't that large despite a massive population difference. Do you consider WVU a diploma mill? In your opinion, what US News ranking does a school stop becoming a diploma mill? 50? 100? 150 out of the 5,300+ Universities in the US?

"The "year after year" of bringing eyeballs is a recent phenomena and probably won't last any longer than Boise State did..."
Orlando is one of the fastest growing cities in America right now with the largest university in the country by enrollment. The likelihood of ratings contracting are about slim to none. Boise has a fraction of the population of Orlando and the media footprint is embarrassing. It's honestly apples to oranges. Especially now that the AAC has a far better contract than the MWC, it stands to reason UCF has FAR more going for it than Boise does.

"It's a huge risk to take a G5 school and elevate it to P5 when the Big 12 could easily look for a Pac 12 school or two to poach..."
In case you missed it the first time, zero teams from the Pac-12 entertained the idea of going to the B12. The B12 is not poaching any P5 teams, period. Since being elevated, TCU has done a pretty impressive job with it's elevated status. UCF has been successful in every conference it's been in. Will we go 25-1 in the B12? Probably not, but I can guarantee you if an invite was to occur, within 3 years UCF would be in the top tier of that conference.

 

[Mikefln]

UCF is in the southeast US. That is everything to college football!!!

Look at UCF's TV ratings the entire decade, not just 2 years.

Everyone brings up 2015, but forgets 2013. And even in the '00s, UCF had 30K+ at home games, once the OCS was built. That's twice as many as Miami gets at home during their so-so years.

It's why writers at the NY Times, USA Today and others were not just clammoring for the Big East to add UCF, but said the Big East was stupid to take USF all-sports when UCF was willing to take a football-only invite just a half-dozen years earlier.

But what about 3 NY bowls in 6 years -- with 2 wins over #5-7 ranked opponents -- and beating 3 out of their last 5 AP Top 10 teams?

Even UCF is approaching Boise's in-conference win record this decade. Everyone needs to look at 2015 as fluke, and not forget 2013. But no, UCF hasn't been in FBS forever or did great things in its first decade-plus of FBS.

But considering UCF is the youngest program to win a BCS game, or CFP game, and done both, and was less than half as old as #2, UCF is here to stay. Especially being in the southeast US.

That's why one of UCF's biggest markets is Birmingham, AL, even before UCF beat Auburn. It has a huge following for a G5.

There is a big difference between playing your typical UCF G5 schedule

Vs PLAYING A REAL P5 CONFERENCE SCHEDULE.

Take your southeastern USA and shove it. You will not stay 11-1/12-0 regular season forever if you stay G5 let a lone move to a P5 conference. You will come down to reality, everyone does. When that happens, even if you get good records like I suggested of 9-3, what does UCF bring. In my mind (and I could be wrong but no conference has offered yet so I doubt i am) UCF does not bring much if they are not 11-1/12-0.

 

[firm_bizzle]

I don't understand how adding a school in a state with 20 million people doesn't "move the needle".

 

[Knight_Fyre]

Attendance has nothing to do with TV viewership. Ask the NFL how declines in attendance have affected the bottom line. It hasn't. It also isn't bothering ESPN when it comes to investing in CFB. Also, no G5 school is going to jump to P5 and compete in a full conference schedule. Rutgers may be a cluster but they added value to TV.

Attendance is actually a pretty good indicator of how interested fans are with the program and thus it's viewership on a per game basis. You'll notice that when stands are half empty, there is a correlation in reduced viewership. When you watch Houston games, even when they are winning - the stadiums are half full. That doesn't scream fan commitment from it's media market.

"Also, no G5 school is going to jump to P5 and compete in a full conference schedule."
You're right about that. The nice thing about jumping from G5 to P5, is having P5 level talent stay in Florida. It would take a few recruiting cycles in order to maximize depth.

"Rutgers may be a cluster but they added value to TV."
Rutgers was added due to idea that they brought in the NY market. Thus allowing the cable companies to inject sports packages that included Rutgers in that region and thus increased the B10 coffers. Cord cutting is just getting started and everyone paying for something they don't watch is a dying model. The media partners believe that those new markets will lead to a windfall of B10 subscribers, but no one in NJ or NY really cares about Rutgers. We'll see if this ends up biting Delaney in the ***.

 

[Mikefln]

"Also, bragging that your school is a diploma factory is a bad look."
No where did I say UCF is a diploma factory. Having graduated from UCF, I can assure you that the curriculum is quite difficult. UCF has a reputation of "You Can't Finish."

Harvard is constantly ranked as one of the top 3 schools in this country. Their list of Alumni reads like a who's who, hell their drop outs read the same way. Yet many grads will tell you that from what they can tell the hard part was getting in, not the classes itself. They learn the same things as any other school.

"The "year after year" of bringing eyeballs is a recent phenomena and probably won't last any longer than Boise State did..."
Orlando is one of the fastest growing cities in America right now with the largest university in the country by enrollment. The likelihood of ratings contracting are about slim to none. Boise has a fraction of the population of Orlando and the media footprint is embarrassing. It's honestly apples to oranges. Especially now that the AAC has a far better contract than the MWC, it stands to reason UCF has FAR more going for it than Boise does.

Yes you have far more going for you the Boise, still does not mean much. Your run will end, every bodies run ends. When that happens, what value does UCF bring? Orlando is a nonstarter. I known 4 different families that have moved to the Orlando/Tampa/Sarasota are in the past 2 years. You know what they brought with them? Their love of Pitt/PSU/ND. I suspect that most people who located from the North/Midwest did the same. I highly doubt they changed their allegiance to UCF.

"It's a huge risk to take a G5 school and elevate it to P5 when the Big 12 could easily look for a Pac 12 school or two to poach..."
In case you missed it the first time, zero teams from the Pac-12 entertained the idea of going to the B12. The B12 is not poaching any P5 teams, period. Since being elevated, TCU has done a pretty impressive job with it's elevated status. UCF has been successful in every conference it's been in. Will we go 25-1 in the B12? Probably not, but I can guarantee you if an invite was to occur, within 3 years UCF would be in the top tier of that conference.

Maybe you would be, maybe you wouldn't. Personally I think it is too much of a risk for not enough value. Remember this is for all sports not just football. Is the profit/upside of UCF football worth cost of sending all the non profit sports halfway across the country? That is UCFs problem one that TCU did not have.

 

[Mikefln]

I don't understand how adding a school in a state with 20 million people doesn't "move the needle".

Because that school is on an island that you would still need to send non revenue sports to play against. And of that 20 million people 19 million root for other teams be them the 3 big schools already in state or from their native state.

 

[Knight_Fyre]

Harvard is constantly ranked as one of the top 3 schools in this country. Their list of Alumni reads like a who's who, hell their drop outs read the same way. Yet many grads will tell you that from what they can tell the hard part was getting in, not the classes itself. They learn the same things as any other school.
Your example didn't prove or disprove my point. My point was that the gaps that matter to universities (GPA/SAT) between Pitt and UCF aren't exactly massive given the 200 year head start and far smaller student body. Both are great schools.

Yes you have far more going for you the Boise, still does not mean much. Your run will end, every bodies run ends. When that happens, what value does UCF bring? Orlando is a nonstarter. I known 4 different families that have moved to the Orlando/Tampa/Sarasota are in the past 2 years. You know what they brought with them? Their love of Pitt/PSU/ND. I suspect that most people who located from the North/Midwest did the same. I highly doubt they changed their allegiance to UCF.
It doesn't mean much? To who? You? Again, you missed the point. The comparison was that of UCF's viewership vs Boise's. That directly matters to the likes of ESPN since they are in the business of selling ads. More viewers, more money. I don't follow that Orlando is a non-starter? What is this based on? Oh, because you know 4 different families that root for other teams? I see. That seems objective enough. I guess i'll have to concede there. Except that most people in the North don't follow football nearly as closely as those do in the South and it's not even close. Furthermore, there has been tons of new UCF fans based on the success we've been having. There isn't a rule that you can only like one college team.

Maybe you would be, maybe you wouldn't. Personally I think it is too much of a risk for not enough value. That is UCFs problem one that TCU did not have.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I could say Pitt shouldn't be in the ACC since it has zero chance to unthrone Clemson. See how ridiculous that sounds? That's about how ridiculous saying there is more risk than value. You are making an assessment without basing it on anything other than a hunch?

Have you researched how many millions of people tune in to watch their games? What firms have you worked for that studies viewership to ad revenue generation? Have you studied what age/demographics that UCF viewership brings in and what that live viewership is worth?

Remember this is for all sports not just football. Is the profit/upside of UCF football worth cost of sending all the non profit sports halfway across the country?
Football is king and it's not even close. What any other sport does or doesn't do is a blip. Are you saying that by joining the B12, UCF would all the sudden have to fly to all the teams it plays? In case you missed it, we are already flying everywhere minus Tampa.

 

[UCFBS]

There is a big difference between playing your typical UCF G5 schedule
Vs PLAYING A REAL P5 CONFERENCE SCHEDULE.

And there is a big difference between recruiting as a G5 ... and recruiting as a P5! Just admit it, if UCF is this good as a G5 ... what happens when they are a P5 and recruiting?! They get more of those 4 star commits, and start getting 5 stars.

But even then ... look at his century. How many 0-1 and 2-1 deals has UCF taken? Lots! Even more than Boise State!

Let UCF in a P5 and find out just how good UCF is. I mean, UCF has already been recruiting some of the beefiest O and D-lines this decade in all of the top 25. Now it gets even more, with more skill.

Take your southeastern USA and shove it. You will not stay 11-1/12-0 regular season forever if you stay G5 let a lone move to a P5 conference.

Maybe not, but imagine what happens when UCF -- in Florida -- recruits in a P5 conference.

You will come down to reality, everyone does. When that happens, even if you get good records like I suggested of 9-3, what does UCF bring. In my mind (and I could be wrong but no conference has offered yet so I doubt i am) UCF does not bring much if they are not 11-1/12-0.

UCF still has 30K+ butts-in-seats as a G5, even when it's not close to undefeated.

Even Miami, in the southeast US, cannot even match half that. A lot of P5s don't, especially outside the southeast US. That's why so many are big on UCF this decade, as it's moved beyond just the TV and attendance history, and put 3 seasons of 3 NY Bowl games, with 2 wins.

UCF is merely a whole 11 points from having 3 totally undefeated teams in the last 6 seasons. And it's done well all decade, other than the dumpster fire of 2015, and a poor 2011 outing.

Yes, it would be great if UCF was like Boise. I said so much here ...

Catching Up to Boise: In-Conference Performance ...
https://ucf.forums.rivals.com/threads/catching-up-to-boise-in-conference-performance.65764

No argument, Boise has had excellent, consistent winning seasons. But UCF has scheduled better than Boise this century too. People really don't know UCF at all.

It's utter ignorance all around.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Rutgers may be a cluster but they added value to TV.

Maybe the same audience that enjoys watching demolition derbies . . .

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Do you consider WVU a diploma mill?

Did you actually ask that question? On THIS board?

 

[UCFBS]

In any case, the only prediction I have for the 2020s is that many teams in the so-called 'Power' conferences will get a 'reality check' in a reduction in their checks. After that, we might actually see the end to the current system any way.

Heck, even the AAC is starting to talk about revenue related to investments and other costs v. benefit by some members that the others are riding the coattails of. Not that they will be cut out completely, but there might be a new model of 'base' + 'incentive' compensation.

 

[Knight_Fyre]

Maybe the same audience that enjoys watching demolition derbies . . .

Trying to figure out where the line gets drawn that constitutes a University as a diploma mill.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Trying to figure out where the line gets drawn that constitutes a University as a diploma mill.

In Morganhole.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Harvard is constantly ranked as one of the top 3 schools in this country. Their list of Alumni reads like a who's who, hell their drop outs read the same way. Yet many grads will tell you that from what they can tell the hard part was getting in, not the classes itself. They learn the same things as any other school.




Yes you have far more going for you the Boise, still does not mean much. Your run will end, every bodies run ends. When that happens, what value does UCF bring? Orlando is a nonstarter. I known 4 different families that have moved to the Orlando/Tampa/Sarasota are in the past 2 years. You know what they brought with them? Their love of Pitt/PSU/ND. I suspect that most people who located from the North/Midwest did the same. I highly doubt they changed their allegiance to UCF.



Maybe you would be, maybe you wouldn't. Personally I think it is too much of a risk for not enough value. Remember this is for all sports not just football. Is the profit/upside of UCF football worth cost of sending all the non profit sports halfway across the country? That is UCFs problem one that TCU did not have.

They do teach the same stuff with two differences.

1. At Ivy's or Duke or ND or the equivalent you compete against lots of Top 5 kids out of HS.

A friend of mine is a Dukie who was # 1 in her HS class at Westport CT.
When she arrived at Duke she found out most of the students were top in their class, with lots of # 1's
so she was just another student as opposed to being top of the "heap" in HS.

2.At Ivy's or Duke or ND you compete against lots of foreign students mostly from Asia.
The foreign students who matriculate to US universities spend most of their time on school work and spend little time being social, attending sports events or other distractions from their studies.

A cousin who just retired as a professor at 70 from a high end university mentioned this to us
when our kids were selecting colleges.

He's a U of Penn, Wharton, Oxford grad but provided us with
a word of caution which to check out the ration of foreign students to US students when selecting a college.
He always thought the social component was as important as the education component when earning a degree.

 

[CJsE]

But considering UCF is the youngest program to win a BCS game, or CFP game, and done both, and was less than half as old as #2, UCF is here to stay. Especially being in the southeast US.

I think UCF is a great program and deserves to get into a P5 conference soon, even though I don't see that happening unless the SEC or Big 12 steals Miami/FSU from the ACC. But, I don't remember UCF making the playoffs. Also, it's not very hard to be the youngest when 98% of the teams in Division 1 were 70+ years old when the BCS came into existence. That's like me taking pride in saying I'm the youngest member of my family to see Lincoln.

 

[Mikefln]

Your example didn't prove or disprove my point. My point was that the gaps that matter to universities (GPA/SAT) between Pitt and UCF aren't exactly massive given the 200 year head start and far smaller student body. Both are great schools.

I will concede to this.

It doesn't mean much? To who? You? Again, you missed the point. The comparison was that of UCF's viewership vs Boise's. That directly matters to the likes of ESPN since they are in the business of selling ads. More viewers, more money. I don't follow that Orlando is a non-starter? What is this based on? Oh, because you know 4 different families that root for other teams? I see. That seems objective enough. I guess i'll have to concede there. Except that most people in the North don't follow football nearly as closely as those do in the South and it's not even close. Furthermore, there has been tons of new UCF fans based on the success we've been having. There isn't a rule that you can only like one college team.

The North and mid west follow the NFL the south east follows college. Orlando/Tampa are not growing because natives are having more kids out of proportion to other areas. They are growing because people are moving from other parts of the country. They do not become loyal to UCF upon arrival. Plus you said there are tons of new UCF fans based on success. There is a name for that. Bandwagon Fans or Fair weather fans. Go 9-3 or worse for a few years, lets see if they are still there. If they are still there, Alright UCF has something, if not then UCF has nothing.

Football is king and it's not even close. What any other sport does or doesn't do is a blip. Are you saying that by joining the B12, UCF would all the sudden have to fly to all the teams it plays? In case you missed it, we are already flying everywhere minus Tampa.

Football is king never disputed that, in fact that is why I stated what I stated. If UCF was football only then UCF is attractive. The problem is it is all sports. An no one cares that UCF is already flying everywhere. What they don't want is to spend money flying their non revenue sport teams to you as that affects the bottom line.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Because that school is on an island that you would still need to send non revenue sports to play against. And of that 20 million people 19 million root for other teams be them the 3 big schools already in state or from their native state.

It's a football hungry state, that's why Jacksonville has an NFL team. 19 million don't root for other teams. UCF is in a city of nearly 3 million (region of 4+ million) without an NFL or P5 school for over 100 miles. Bring meaningful football anywhere close to Orlando and it will be successful. People are starving for it.

 

[pittdan77]

Appreciate you guys playing along but you're missing the greater point. You're conflating recent success on the field with value. If UCF had "value", you'd already be in the Big12. But you're not because the TV people didn't think anyone that was interested at that moment had enough value. You're not interested in why. That's fine.

 

[Knight_Fyre]

The North and mid west follow the NFL the south east follows college. Orlando/Tampa are not growing because natives are having more kids out of proportion to other areas. They are growing because people are moving from other parts of the country. They do not become loyal to UCF upon arrival. Plus you said there are tons of new UCF fans based on success. There is a name for that. Bandwagon Fans or Fair weather fans. Go 9-3 or worse for a few years, lets see if they are still there. If they are still there, Alright UCF has something, if not then UCF has nothing.
What I was saying was that you have people tuning in and rooting for UCF because A. it's a fun team to watch and B. they've been banging their head on the glass ceiling; and people are taking note that a 4 team playoff only caters to a very small pool of football programs. Thus becoming indirect fans.

I didn't insinuate that once you move to Orlando, you automatically become a die hard fan. But it stands to reason that if you live in Orlando long enough, and you see UCF licenses plates literally everywhere, you watch football and the team is fun to watch - there is a decent chance non-UCF people will tune in and see what all the fuss is about. That in turn leads to more people following the program, talking about the program and creating more of a viewer presence to companies like ESPN. Also, I am not naive to think that if UCF tanks for a few seasons that these same people will ride it out. But we have enough pieces (extremely astute AD and HC) in place and a winning culture surrounding the program that won't allow mediocrity to creep into the program and drive off the band wagoners (see usf as an example).



Football is king never disputed that, in fact that is why I stated what I stated. If UCF was football only then UCF is attractive. The problem is it is all sports. An no one cares that UCF is already flying everywhere. What they don't want is to spend money flying their non revenue sport teams to you as that affects the bottom line.

You inquired with "Is the profit/upside of UCF football worth cost of sending all the non profit sports halfway across the country?" You need to clarify that sentence further. Are we talking about the rest of the B12 or UCF? If It's UCF, we already fly across the country for non-revenue generating sports + BBall. If you are referring to B12 teams sending their non-revenue generating sports to FL and asking if its worth it for them? I would say emphatically yes.

A. What teams wouldn't want to come to Orlando as a destination trip for all the sports, this could be viewed as an indirect benefit for playing at B12 teams and help with recruiting. And B. Gaining a footprint into Florida allows B12 teams to recruit blue chip Florida players and thus helping the bottom line (Football). Sure their expenses go up, but I would be shocked if any team in the B12 didn't think they could benefit from a new pipeline in a football rich recruiting area.

 

[Knight_Fyre]

Appreciate you guys playing along but you're missing the greater point. You're conflating recent success on the field with value. If UCF had "value", you'd already be in the Big12. But you're not because the TV people didn't think anyone that was interested at that moment had enough value. You're not interested in why. That's fine.

Respectfully, I disagree. I think the true issue here is that you believe UCF fans feel that we deserve a place in the B12, solely based on recent football success.

Whereas, we really believe UCF as a whole (viewership ratings, trajectory of the program, market size, fertile recruiting area, one of the top AD's in the country, a highly successful HC, 68,000+ student body, rapidly growing alumni size, modifiable OCS that can go to 65,000 seats etc...) are all attributes that would make a program like UCF a good fit in a P5.

It's more akin to buying Amazon stock in 2006. The potential is readily apparent but the B12 isn't forward thinking enough to pull the trigger. The B12 is like the Big East 2.0 and will most likely suffer the same fate at some point.