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UCF is going to get in a P5 conference

Respectfully, I disagree. I think the true issue here is that you believe UCF fans feel that we deserve a place in the B12, solely based on recent football success.

Whereas, we really believe UCF as a whole (viewership ratings, trajectory of the program, market size, fertile recruiting area, one of the top AD's in the country, a highly successful HC, 68,000+ student body, rapidly growing alumni size, modifiable OCS that can go to 65,000 seats etc...) are all attributes that would make a program like UCF a good fit in a P5.

It's more akin to buying Amazon stock in 2006. The potential is readily apparent but the B12 isn't forward thinking enough to pull the trigger. The B12 is like the Big East 2.0 and will most likely suffer the same fate at some point.

UCF has done exceptionally well in growing as a university and with its sports programs. It is fueled by the growth in the Sunshine State and by the abundance of good football played there. IMHO, UCF being admitted to a P5 Conference has 3 major obstacles: Miami, Florida and Florida State. They honestly don't want the extra competition in recruiting. That is why I think that Florida and Miami are opening the season in Orlando. They are trying to make a statement about the "Big" Football programs in Florida.

Good Luck this year but I hope Pitt earns a little payback against UCF.
 
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UCF has done exceptionally well in growing as a university and with its sports programs. It is fueled by the growth in the Sunshine State and by the abundance of good football played there. IMHO, UCF being admitted to a P5 Conference has 3 major obstacles: Miami, Florida and Florida State. They honestly don't want the extra competition in recruiting. That is why I think that Florida and Miami are opening the season in Orlando. They are trying to make a statement about the "Big" Football programs in Florida.

Good Luck this year but I hope Pitt earns a little payback against UCF.
Appreciate the kind words. Pretty much every UCF fan recognizes that the ACC is a non-starter as well as the SEC.

My guess of why UF and Miami are playing in Orlando is because it's essentially a half-way point neutral site game where neither program wanted to do a home/home and Florida Citrus Sports probably brokered the deal as a one off. I didn't take it as a "look at the big boys playing in Orlando." It could be an unintended effect but I don't think it was a major facilitator to do the game.

I know Pitt will be itching to redeem itself Sept 21st. Here's to an injury free, competitive game on both sides.
 
Respectfully, I disagree. I think the true issue here is that you believe UCF fans feel that we deserve a place in the B12, solely based on recent football success.

Whereas, we really believe UCF as a whole (viewership ratings, trajectory of the program, market size, fertile recruiting area, one of the top AD's in the country, a highly successful HC, 68,000+ student body, rapidly growing alumni size, modifiable OCS that can go to 65,000 seats etc...) are all attributes that would make a program like UCF a good fit in a P5.

It's more akin to buying Amazon stock in 2006. The potential is readily apparent but the B12 isn't forward thinking enough to pull the trigger. The B12 is like the Big East 2.0 and will most likely suffer the same fate at some point.

No, because of market. USF has already proven that people will show up and watch on TV in Tampa Bay (4 million people) if it's meaningful football and that's while competing with an NFL team. There are millions of underserved fans on the I-4 corridor than could care less about UF, FSU or Miami.
 
"Also, bragging that your school is a diploma factory is a bad look."
No where did I say UCF is a diploma factory. Having graduated from UCF, I can assure you that the curriculum is quite difficult. UCF has a reputation of "You Can't Finish."

Pitt was founded in 1787, UCF was founded in 1968 - that's almost a 200 year head start. Yet despite that, Pitt's average SAT and GPA is 1330 and 4.14 respectively. Contrast that with UCF's 1235 and 3.93. That's not exactly light years ahead of UCF considering the fact that we have MORE than double the student population of Pitt. Obviously the smaller the school, the more selective you can be and yet the divide really isn't that large despite a massive population difference. Do you consider WVU a diploma mill? In your opinion, what US News ranking does a school stop becoming a diploma mill? 50? 100? 150 out of the 5,300+ Universities in the US?

Actually, Pitt's average SAT for 2018-19 was 1348, with an average composite ACT of 30.5. UCF's average SAT was 1181 with a composite ACT of 26. That is from the respective schools' own Common Data Sets.

US News rankings don't determine whether a school is a diploma mill or not. Diploma mills are institutions that over prioritize revenue coming from large enrollments thereby losing quality control of the degrees they award. WVU isn't one because their historic mission to educate any willing student in one of the poorest states in the union which dictates that they'll never be able to climb rankings of arbitrary methodologies. Much higgher ranked schools than WVU are absolutely diploma mills. There are many ways they hide their true institutional admissions numbers in pursuit of tuition revenue and game the rankings.

But undergraduate admissions scores are only one very small aspect of a major university. A large part of the academic reputation of a research institution like Pitt is made on the graduate level, where the overall faculty reputation is based on research productivity and impact. And in research fields, even undergraduates are advantaged by being in an environment with a plethora of diverse, cutting edge opportunities. To that end, Pitt is the 16th largest academic R&D complex in the nation, the 9th most competitive for the most prestigious funding sources, and is the 4th most in the biomedical health sciences. For comparison, UCF is 98th, 113th, and 225th, respectively. What that 181 extra years also gets you is a $4.2 billion endowment, which goes a lot further with Pitt's smaller enrollment than UCF's $0.0002 billion endowment. It also lets you achieve top 10 reputations in academic fields like philosophy and the health sciences that take decades and decades to build, not to mention allows you to collect a few national championships along the way. And even with UCF's significant advantages in state public subsidization, over a time period of public support that is only two years shorter than Pitt's, there is little danger of a significant narrowing of those gaps any time soon.
 
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Really? Outside of Pitt, the team I am most interested to watch when they are on is UCF, especially when they play a P5 team, so I can root for them. I mean other than Pitt, I expect them to pound the crap out of Pitt these days.

Cool?
 
UCF has done exceptionally well in growing as a university and with its sports programs. It is fueled by the growth in the Sunshine State and by the abundance of good football played there. IMHO, UCF being admitted to a P5 Conference has 3 major obstacles: Miami, Florida and Florida State. They honestly don't want the extra competition in recruiting. That is why I think that Florida and Miami are opening the season in Orlando. They are trying to make a statement about the "Big" Football programs in Florida.

Good Luck this year but I hope Pitt earns a little payback against UCF.

You think Miami and UF are playing in Orlando because of UCF?

This thread is so bad it’s actually gotten good.
 
Respectfully, I disagree. I think the true issue here is that you believe UCF fans feel that we deserve a place in the B12, solely based on recent football success.

Whereas, we really believe UCF as a whole (viewership ratings, trajectory of the program, market size, fertile recruiting area, one of the top AD's in the country, a highly successful HC, 68,000+ student body, rapidly growing alumni size, modifiable OCS that can go to 65,000 seats etc...) are all attributes that would make a program like UCF a good fit in a P5.

It's more akin to buying Amazon stock in 2006. The potential is readily apparent but the B12 isn't forward thinking enough to pull the trigger. The B12 is like the Big East 2.0 and will most likely suffer the same fate at some point.

You're not listening to what I'm saying if that's what you got out of it. There is a lot more to being valuable to the P5 than anything you mentioned in the second paragraph. Nobody is investing in UCF based on anything you're talking about because it's media money that's driving everything in CFB. How much more money does a conference make for adding UCF to it's inventory? The Big12 wants to sign a media deal that runs out into the 2030's or further. They don't care if you win or if 30k people show up to games. They only care if you make them more money when you saddle up for a barn burner in Lawrence some Thursday night in early November. Every other conference will use the same kind of math. It's all about the $$$$$$$.

Also, the Big12 probably isn't going anywhere and they've put themselves in a position to rake in more revenue per school than two other P5 conferences. Passing on UCF was one of the more forward thinking moves the conference made because they passed on a short term cash grab to improve their position with the GOR negotiations and improved T3 returns while they were at it. Now it's a numbers game. It's no secret that TV wants them at 12 schools but Texas/OU have shown they don't care so long as their own TV deals keep them fat and happy. Somewhere in the middle is where the conference lands.

My suggestion to you is to pray WVU gets cold feet AND the ACC sees some value ($$$) in adding them. UCF's best lane to the P5 is if another conference takes something from the Big12 or the Big12 poaches someone the ACC. Go ahead and run that second scenario a few times and you'll see it's pretty unlikely. Nobody in their right mind is leaving the B1G, ACC, or SEC to go to the Big12 and none of the other Florida schools are opening a door for you to join the party (it's also why Temple and Houston join the conversation).

Remember, it's money before all else. If winning or the quality of football and fandom mattered, well, look at half the schools in the ACC. It doesn't.
 
Actually, Pitt's average SAT for 2018-19 was 1348, with an average composite ACT of 30.5. UCF's average SAT was 1181 with a composite ACT of 26. That is from the respective schools' own Common Data Sets.

US News rankings determine whether a school is a diploma mill or not. Diploma mills are institutions that over prioritize revenue coming from large enrollments thereby losing quality control of the degrees they award. WVU isn't one because their historic mission to educate any willing student in one of the poorest states in the union which dictates that they'll never be able to climb rankings of arbitrary methodologies. Much higgher ranked schools than WVU are absolutely diploma mills. There are many ways they hide their true institutional admissions numbers in pursuit of tuition revenue and game the rankings.

But undergraduate admissions scores are only one very small aspect of a major university. A large part of the academic reputation of a research institution like Pitt is made on the graduate level, where the overall faculty reputation is based on research productivity and impact. And in research fields, even undergraduates are advantaged by being in an environment with a plethora of diverse, cutting edge opportunities. To that end, Pitt is the 16th largest academic R&D complex in the nation, the 9th most competitive for the most prestigious funding sources, and is the 4th most in the biomedical health sciences. For comparison, UCF is 98th, 113th, and 225th, respectively. What that 181 extra years also gets you is a $4.2 billion endowment, which goes a lot further with Pitt's smaller enrollment than UCF's $0.0002 billion endowment. It also lets you achieve top 10 reputations in academic fields like philosophy and the health sciences that take decades and decades to build, not to mention allows you to collect a few national championships along the way. And even with UCF's significant advantages in state public subsidization, over a time period of public support that is only two years shorter than Pitt's, there is little danger of a significant narrowing of those gaps any time soon.

It doesn't take a Ph.D. in statistics to realize you cannot have 68,000 above average students, even in a large state such as Florida. And while I can't speak to the current state of Pennsylvania schools, my experience has been that grade inflation, extra credit and practices such as allowing students who do poorly to re-take tests is rampant in Florida.
 
Actually, Pitt's average SAT for 2018-19 was 1348, with an average composite ACT of 30.5. UCF's average SAT was 1181 with a composite ACT of 26. That is from the respective schools' own Common Data Sets.

US News rankings determine whether a school is a diploma mill or not. Diploma mills are institutions that over prioritize revenue coming from large enrollments thereby losing quality control of the degrees they award. WVU isn't one because their historic mission to educate any willing student in one of the poorest states in the union which dictates that they'll never be able to climb rankings of arbitrary methodologies. Much higgher ranked schools than WVU are absolutely diploma mills. There are many ways they hide their true institutional admissions numbers in pursuit of tuition revenue and game the rankings.

But undergraduate admissions scores are only one very small aspect of a major university. A large part of the academic reputation of a research institution like Pitt is made on the graduate level, where the overall faculty reputation is based on research productivity and impact. And in research fields, even undergraduates are advantaged by being in an environment with a plethora of diverse, cutting edge opportunities. To that end, Pitt is the 16th largest academic R&D complex in the nation, the 9th most competitive for the most prestigious funding sources, and is the 4th most in the biomedical health sciences. For comparison, UCF is 98th, 113th, and 225th, respectively. What that 181 extra years also gets you is a $4.2 billion endowment, which goes a lot further with Pitt's smaller enrollment than UCF's $0.0002 billion endowment. It also lets you achieve top 10 reputations in academic fields like philosophy and the health sciences that take decades and decades to build, not to mention allows you to collect a few national championships along the way. And even with UCF's significant advantages in state public subsidization, over a time period of public support that is only two years shorter than Pitt's, there is little danger of a significant narrowing of those gaps any time soon.

Much of the U.S. News ranking is based on subjective reputation scores. Don't read all that much into it.
 
You're not listening to what I'm saying if that's what you got out of it. There is a lot more to being valuable to the P5 than anything you mentioned in the second paragraph. Nobody is investing in UCF based on anything you're talking about because it's media money that's driving everything in CFB. How much more money does a conference make for adding UCF to it's inventory? The Big12 wants to sign a media deal that runs out into the 2030's or further. They don't care if you win or if 30k people show up to games. They only care if you make them more money when you saddle up for a barn burner in Lawrence some Thursday night in early November. Every other conference will use the same kind of math. It's all about the $$$$$$$.

Actually, all of it is extremely apropos to the B12. Every single thing I mentioned directly relate to fitting into a P5 conference and satisfying the bottom line. But you are more than welcome to disagree. Having an astute/forward thinking AD is probably the most important factor with having a successful athletic department, we have that. Danny White has struck lightning twice with its head football coach. That has led to a consistent winning program since his hiring. That directly relates to more people tuning in to watch UCF which means more money for ESPN. That is the bottom line. Viewership. Having a packed stadium means people are interested. That's correlated with viewership. Having facilities such as 65,000 stadium means that if UCF joined the B12, they could easily accommodate any fan base traveling to Orlando. The large student body means tons of new grads that will be Knight fans. That means more viewership. All the things I mentioned have a direct correlation to viewership and thus make it an attractive property to ESPN. When the B12 negotiations were occurring, we had one of the worst seasons in school history and serves as an anomaly, not the norm. That winless season nose dived the progress and thus ratings during a critical time of negotiation with ESPN. Just because UCF wasn't added then due to not moving the needle doesn't mean there isn't a wealth of statistics to show UCF isn't a smart choice now or will be in 2024.


Also, the Big12 probably isn't going anywhere and they've put themselves in a position to rake in more revenue per school than two other P5 conferences. Passing on UCF was one of the more forward thinking moves the conference made because they passed on a short term cash grab to improve their position with the GOR negotiations and improved T3 returns while they were at it. Now it's a numbers game. It's no secret that TV wants them at 12 schools but Texas/OU have shown they don't care so long as their own TV deals keep them fat and happy. Somewhere in the middle is where the conference lands.

They are being reactive instead of proactive. That in its very nature is not forward thinking. As far as forward thinking goes, the B12 is one team away from being relegated to the new Big East. OU fans are thirsting for the SEC and are tired of playing second fiddle to Texas while watching Texas milk the Long Horn Network at $15mil per year. If OU goes, I can see Texas going independent like ND or possibly heading to the ACC once the LHN expires in 2035. A forward thinking conference would try to setup a backup measure in the event TX/OU leaves. If they recruited UCF + Cincinatti, by the time said scenario occurs, both teams will have had time to solidify itself on the national stage; thus a much better chance of preventing a Power shift if/when TX/OU leaves. If they wait until AFTER that happens, it's almost a foregone conclusion it'll be a Power 4 (and maybe that's what ESPN wants?).

Texas has been mediocre at best since the early 2000's. Oklahoma and TCU are the only one producing. In an era where only 4 teams get into the playoff; expecting Oklahoma to carry the torch every year is just a bad business decision. Inviting a rising star with inherent recruiting advantages, multiple NY6 wins and literally winning their conference championship 50% of the time since it's inception serves as proof that they have a winning program. They aren't having to take a leap of faith that UCF will produce if promoted.

You can claim that UCF won't be as successful in the B12 as it was in the AAC. History shows UCF has been the top team in every conference its been in. They compete with 2 and 3 star talent against teams with FAR better classes and seem to do just fine. But some how they will fair worse with access to even better players? Yeah okay.

UCF brings in millions of viewership annually with only 1-2 P5 teams each year. You're telling me with a full conference schedule of P5 teams, we couldn't hit the same viewership of half the B12 members or more? The media footprint of the B12 is a joke. I would contest that UCF would surpass every team not named Texas/Oklahoma in viewership in 3 years or less.


My suggestion to you is to pray WVU gets cold feet AND the ACC sees some value ($$$) in adding them. UCF's best lane to the P5 is if another conference takes something from the Big12 or the Big12 poaches someone the ACC. Go ahead and run that second scenario a few times and you'll see it's pretty unlikely. Nobody in their right mind is leaving the B1G, ACC, or SEC to go to the Big12 and none of the other Florida schools are opening a door for you to join the party (it's also why Temple and Houston join the conversation).

Remember, it's money before all else. If winning or the quality of football and fandom mattered, well, look at half the schools in the ACC. It doesn't.

I agree with this assessment.
 
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Much of the U.S. News ranking is based on subjective reputation scores. Don't read all that much into it.

Every composite ranking method is subjective. The creator of any methodology arbitrarily assigns weight to what they deem is important, often without any actual study to justify the weight assigned or even the legitimacy of individual measures, or in US New's case, what they deem to be important to sell their most profitable product.

Anyway, where you place in the amount of peer-reviewed, federal research dollars awarded is not at all subjective, and the actual result is tangible ($).

US News in important for PR purposes, but it isn't the measuring stick that is used for institutional self evaluation.
 
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You're not listening to what I'm saying if that's what you got out of it. There is a lot more to being valuable to the P5 than anything you mentioned in the second paragraph. Nobody is investing in UCF based on anything you're talking about because it's media money that's driving everything in CFB. How much more money does a conference make for adding UCF to it's inventory? The Big12 wants to sign a media deal that runs out into the 2030's or further. They don't care if you win or if 30k people show up to games. They only care if you make them more money when you saddle up for a barn burner in Lawrence some Thursday night in early November. Every other conference will use the same kind of math. It's all about the $$$$$$$.

Actually, all of it is extremely apropos to the B12. Every single thing I mentioned directly relate to fitting into a P5 conference and satisfying the bottom line. But you are more than welcome to disagree. Having an astute/forward thinking AD is probably the most important factor with having a successful athletic department, we have that. Danny White has struck lightning twice with its head football coach. That has led to a consistent winning program since his hiring. That directly relates to more people tuning in to watch UCF which means more money for ESPN. That is the bottom line. Viewership. Having a packed stadium means people are interested. That's correlated with viewership. Having facilities such as 65,000 stadium means that if UCF joined the B12, they could easily accommodate any fan base traveling to Orlando. The large student body means tons of new grads that will be Knight fans. That means more viewership. All the things I mentioned have a direct correlation to viewership and thus make it an attractive property to ESPN. When the B12 negotiations were occurring, we had one of the worst seasons in school history and serves as an anomaly, not the norm. That winless season nose dived the progress and thus ratings during a critical time of negotiation with ESPN. Just because UCF wasn't added then due to not moving the needle doesn't mean there isn't a wealth of statistics to show UCF isn't a smart choice now or will be in 2024.


Also, the Big12 probably isn't going anywhere and they've put themselves in a position to rake in more revenue per school than two other P5 conferences. Passing on UCF was one of the more forward thinking moves the conference made because they passed on a short term cash grab to improve their position with the GOR negotiations and improved T3 returns while they were at it. Now it's a numbers game. It's no secret that TV wants them at 12 schools but Texas/OU have shown they don't care so long as their own TV deals keep them fat and happy. Somewhere in the middle is where the conference lands.

They are being reactive instead of proactive. That in its very nature is not forward thinking. As far as forward thinking goes, the B12 is one team away from being relegated to the new Big East. OU fans are thirsting for the SEC and are tired of playing second fiddle to Texas while watching Texas milk the Long Horn Network at $15mil per year. If OU goes, I can see Texas going independent like ND or possibly heading to the ACC once the LHN expires in 2035. A forward thinking conference would try to setup a backup measure in the event TX/OU leaves. If they recruited UCF + Cincinatti, by the time said scenario occurs, both teams will have had time to solidify itself on the national stage; thus a much better chance of preventing a Power shift if/when TX/OU leaves. If they wait until AFTER that happens, it's almost a foregone conclusion it'll be a Power 4 (and maybe that's what ESPN wants?).

Texas has been mediocre at best since the early 2000's. Oklahoma and TCU are the only one producing. In an era where only 4 teams get into the playoff; expecting Oklahoma to carry the torch every year is just a bad business decision. Inviting a rising star with inherent recruiting advantages, multiple NY6 wins and literally winning their conference championship 50% of the time since it's inception serves as proof that they have a winning program. They aren't having to take a leap of faith that UCF will produce if promoted.

You can claim that UCF won't be as successful in the B12 as it was in the AAC. History shows UCF has been the top team in every conference its been in. They compete with 2 and 3 star talent against teams with FAR better classes and seem to do just fine. But some how they will fair worse with access to even better players? Yeah okay.

UCF brings in millions of viewership annually with only 1-2 P5 teams each year. You're telling me with a full conference schedule of P5 teams, we couldn't hit the same viewership of half the B12 members or more? The media footprint of the B12 is a joke. I would contest that UCF would surpass every team not named Texas/Oklahoma in viewership in 3 years or less.


My suggestion to you is to pray WVU gets cold feet AND the ACC sees some value ($$$) in adding them. UCF's best lane to the P5 is if another conference takes something from the Big12 or the Big12 poaches someone the ACC. Go ahead and run that second scenario a few times and you'll see it's pretty unlikely. Nobody in their right mind is leaving the B1G, ACC, or SEC to go to the Big12 and none of the other Florida schools are opening a door for you to join the party (it's also why Temple and Houston join the conversation).

Remember, it's money before all else. If winning or the quality of football and fandom mattered, well, look at half the schools in the ACC. It doesn't.

I agree with this assessment.

$$$ > Quality of Football

Your criticism of the Big12 is purely from the standpoint of angry UCF guy. Every point you make now was made back then. They didn't take you because they were fishing for interest with the current GOR in mind. TV told them not to expand because it was going to lower their value for the next contract. Please just accept it. The myth that Texas and OU are leaving is just noise from the $40 a blog post writers. There are a couple of guys speculating outside of that but it's just bluster. If the Big12 was splitting up, it would be happening ahead of the expiration of the GOR. It takes a few years to reshuffle. Where are you seeing that? Yeah, the Big12 footprint is a joke but that's why they want to expand. Back to value. Also, if Texas and OU actually DO want to break up the party, well, trust me, UCF doesn't want that. Everyone worth anything ends up in four bloated conferences and nobody new is coming to the party. Actually possible that contraction happens.

So far as competing, you're not jumping from Conference USA to the AAC. P5 is a different party every week. You'd get a smaller piece of the pie for, ah, "expansion fees", and then you'd have to hope that interest and support is still there 5-10 years down the road. Good luck with that. Very few schools have found real, sustained, success after realigning. The Big12 has never had a balanced revenue formula anyway but that's another topic.
 
$$$ > Quality of Football

Your criticism of the Big12 is purely from the standpoint of angry UCF guy. Every point you make now was made back then. They didn't take you because they were fishing for interest with the current GOR in mind. TV told them not to expand because it was going to lower their value for the next contract. Please just accept it. The myth that Texas and OU are leaving is just noise from the $40 a blog post writers. There are a couple of guys speculating outside of that but it's just bluster. If the Big12 was splitting up, it would be happening ahead of the expiration of the GOR. It takes a few years to reshuffle. Where are you seeing that? Yeah, the Big12 footprint is a joke but that's why they want to expand. Back to value. Also, if Texas and OU actually DO want to break up the party, well, trust me, UCF doesn't want that. Everyone worth anything ends up in four bloated conferences and nobody new is coming to the party. Actually possible that contraction happens.

So far as competing, you're not jumping from Conference USA to the AAC. P5 is a different party every week. You'd get a smaller piece of the pie for, ah, "expansion fees", and then you'd have to hope that interest and support is still there 5-10 years down the road. Good luck with that. Very few schools have found real, sustained, success after realigning. The Big12 has never had a balanced revenue formula anyway but that's another topic.
Oklahoma and Texas can't really go anywhere since they both have other schools anchored to them, politicians aren't going to let the Sooners move anywhere without OK State and same thing goes for Texas with Texas Tech & Baylor.
 
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Oklahoma and Texas can't really go anywhere since they both have other schools anchored to them, politicians aren't going to let the Sooners move anywhere without OK State and same thing goes for Texas with Texas Tech & Baylor.

Baylor???
 
$$$ > Quality of Football

Your criticism of the Big12 is purely from the standpoint of angry UCF guy.
Okay?

Every point you make now was made back then. They didn't take you because they were fishing for interest with the current GOR in mind. TV told them not to expand because it was going to lower their value for the next contract. Please just accept it.
I am not disputing what the media partners told them. You claimed that the B12 is forward thinking, I said that is fundamentally false and provided my reasons. Just because every point made back then doesn't mean any new statistical data points from 2015 on become null and void. Uber has yet to become profitable since it's inception. That still hasn't stopped it from being worth a multi-billion dollar company. The media partners see what a successful UCF program brings in terms of viewership and that would just be the tip of the iceberg if afforded P5.

The myth that Texas and OU are leaving is just noise from the $40 a blog post writers. There are a couple of guys speculating outside of that but it's just bluster. If the Big12 was splitting up, it would be happening ahead of the expiration of the GOR.
If what you are saying is correct, then why didn't the B12 extend it's grant of rights? That would have stabilized the conference long term and added more money to it's members annually. That's critical considering the B10 and SEC are pulling away by a significant margin. You know why that didn't happen? Because OU refused to continue having their hitch connected to TX and Texas already makes the most money in college football. They don't need the increased revenue. Furthermore, no one is breaking off before the GOR unless it's an invite to the SEC. Unfortunately for Texas, A&M took that spot.

It takes a few years to reshuffle. Where are you seeing that? Yeah, the Big12 footprint is a joke but that's why they want to expand. Back to value.
Actually reshuffling doesn't take long at all. These deals take place behind the scenes and they often happen quickly when they are finally made public. Again, you kind of proved my point. UCF alone increases their media footprint by 25% of the WHOLE conference.

Also, if Texas and OU actually DO want to break up the party, well, trust me, UCF doesn't want that.
It's not about what UCF or anyone "wants" but it is the only logical path to elevate their station, even if it is the Big East 2.0. The SEC, ACC and B10 aren't exactly options that will open up in the foreseeable future barring any government involvement.

Everyone worth anything ends up in four bloated conferences and nobody new is coming to the party. Actually possible that contraction happens.
I've already alluded to this in a previous post.

So far as competing, you're not jumping from Conference USA to the AAC. P5 is a different party every week. You'd get a smaller piece of the pie for, ah, "expansion fees"
Money isn't the main problem, it's true access to the playoff and the notoriety to play P5 teams consistently that are far more important. Kind of hard to sell to blue chip kids that they should come play at a program with a glass ceiling.

...and then you'd have to hope that interest and support is still there 5-10 years down the road. Good luck with that.
Again, we have had plenty of support in a G5 conference. Are you seriously questioning whether there will be support with an enhanced (P5) schedule, more money, more national exposure, a built in benefit of the doubt AP ranking the list goes on and on and on. This is probably the weakest point so far.

Very few schools have found real, sustained, success after realigning. The Big12 has never had a balanced revenue formula anyway but that's another topic.
And even fewer schools have done what UCF has done on the the money they make, and the conference they've been in. The B12's "crumbs" on their graduated membership plan are exponentially better than what UCF receives right now. I've already outlined several reasons why UCF would break the trend where teams that are elevated do not end up doing well.
 
Baylor???
Even though they're a private school they have a ton of pull in the Texas state legislator and used that pull to force Texas and Texas A&M abandon their plans and join the Big 8 with them and Texas Tech. Texas was shopping itself to the PAC-10 & had an open invite to the Big 8, A&M was angling for the SEC.
 
UCF's biggest strength? It's HUGE enrollment. Was largest in nation at one point i think.Like 45K?
 
Money isn't the main problem, it's true access to the playoff and the notoriety to play P5 teams consistently that are far more important. Kind of hard to sell to blue chip kids that they should come play at a program with a glass ceiling.

Ah hahahahaha.....you think playing in P5 gets you through the glass ceiling????!!!!!!

MONEY IS ALWAYS THE PROBLEM.

I have to tap out. It's been fun but you're too stuck on your fandom.
 
Ah hahahahaha.....you think playing in P5 gets you through the glass ceiling????!!!!!!

MONEY IS ALWAYS THE PROBLEM.

I have to tap out. It's been fun but you're too stuck on your fandom.
Money is always the problem you say? Oh, so Texas, Texas A&M, Florida, Michigan, Michigan State, LSU, Tennessee, Nebraska, South Carolina, Iowa, Kentucky and the list goes on and on and on and on and on. They all make between $140-$219 MILLION per YEAR. I could keep going but your assertion is absolutely ludicrous.

How often are those teams making the playoff? There isn't a direct correlation between money and success. If that was true, #1 Texas and #2 Texas A&M would be CFP locks every year. But wait...UCF made a record of $61 million last year and took an LSU team that made $145,422,796 last year to an 8 point game with a backup QB who had only played in 3 games ever versus a team with 4* and 5*'s at just about every position. How can that be??? Oh and the year before that, Auburn made $147,511,034 and lost to UCF who made $56,327,225 in 2017. Guess where Clemson is on the list? #27 at $120 million in 2018. And they are by far the best team in College football.

Well gee... I guess money ISN'T everything. But don't let those facts get in the way of your perception.
 
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UCF's biggest strength? It's HUGE enrollment. Was largest in nation at one point i think.Like 45K?
UCF is #1 in the nation with 68,569 currently enrolled (Fall 2018 figures) although I believe it's in the 70k+ figure for 2019. Texas A&M is at ~69k (2018) and may have passed us temporarily. UCF is about to open up a new campus in downtown Orlando at the end of this month that will jump enrollment by another 7,700 students.
 
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UCF is #1 in the nation with 68,569 currently enrolled (Fall 2018 figures) although I believe it's in the 70k+ figure for 2019. Texas A&M is at ~69k (2018) and may have passed us temporarily. UCF is about to open up a new campus in downtown Orlando at the end of this month that will jump enrollment by another 7,700 students.


Penn State claims to have an enrollment of about 98,783 students.
They have something like 24 Branch Campuses throughout the state.
Check it out.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Is having the most students really something people want the brag about?

It doesn't sound like college, to me.
Having a massive diverse student population doesn't sound like college? What sounds like college to you?


This doesn't look like college?
 
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It doesn't take a Ph.D. in statistics to realize you cannot have 68,000 above average students, even in a large state such as Florida. And while I can't speak to the current state of Pennsylvania schools, my experience has been that grade inflation, extra credit and practices such as allowing students who do poorly to re-take tests is rampant in Florida.

It's the same in PA. I have a few friends who are teachers, and basically all the school board cares about is raising the schools numbers, so kids can take retests, kids who don't belong in AP classes, get into AP classes, because it looks good on paper
 
OOOF

UCF blew it - the big boys in Florida playing each other

Florida, Miami agree to home/home series in 2024-25. Teams will play at UF in 2024 & at UM in 2025, marking 1st home/home Florida–Miami contests in consecutive years since 2002-03. UF & UM open season next Saturday in Orlando
 
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Its a matter of time. They are basically the new TCU. They aren't going to sit there in that market with the fanbase they are building and not be sought after by a P5. They'll be in a P5 within 5 years. Either the Big 12, Big 10, or ACC. You can bet that.

I realize some will say they dont fit the Big 10's geographic and academic profile but that's overrated. The Big 10 is the only P5 league without a team in one of the Big 3 football states (FL, CA, TX) and Delaney thinks like me. The question is, if you are the ACC, do you let the B12 or B10 take them?

These giant conferences of 16 or more teams are just not any good.

We just might see smaller conferences with just the top 50 programs. It would make sense for those schools. They would get to keep the money and call the shots.

PAC 10

USC
Cal
UCLA
Stanford
Washington
Oregon
Arizona State
Arizona
Utah
Brigham Young

The West

Texas
Oklahoma
Nebraska
Colorado
Kansas
Texas A&M
Arkansas
Missouri
Texas Tech
Kansas State

Big Ten

Michigan
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Ohio State
Notre Dame
Penn State
Illinois
Iowa
Indiana

SEC

Alabama
Georgia
Tennessee
Mississippi
LSU
Florida
South Carolina
Kentucky
Florida State
Louisville

ACC

Miami
North Carolina
Virginia
NC State
Duke
Maryland
Syracuse
West Virginia
Clemson
Pitt

Sorry GA Tech, UConn, BC, Oregon State, Army, Navy, Northwestern, Purdue, wash State, Baylor, TCU, Utah State, Iowa State, Air Force, Colorado State, Vanderbilt.
 
My guess of why UF and Miami are playing in Orlando is because it's essentially a half-way point neutral site game where neither program wanted to do a home/home and Florida Citrus Sports probably brokered the deal as a one off. I didn't take it as a "look at the big boys playing in Orlando." It could be an unintended effect but I don't think it was a major facilitator to do the game.

Besides what does that say about lil ole UCF if P5 teams in Florida are scheduling football games in Orlando for that reason?
 
These giant conferences of 16 or more teams are just not any good.

We just might see smaller conferences with just the top 50 programs. It would make sense for those schools. They would get to keep the money and call the shots.

PAC 10

USC
Cal
UCLA
Stanford
Washington
Oregon
Arizona State
Arizona
Utah
Brigham Young

BYU will never be part of the PAC-12 or Big 12, there's tons of reasons why but the biggest is the not playing on Sunday's which throws a huge wrench into scheduling for all sports except football and big State U's have no real interest in adding private universities be they religious or not. Also other states aren't Pennsylvania and won't let one of their major universities get bumped down to the minor leagues, take a look at how Virginia Tech ended up in the ACC.
 
BYU will never be part of the PAC-12 or Big 12, there's tons of reasons why but the biggest is the not playing on Sunday's which throws a huge wrench into scheduling for all sports except football and big State U's have no real interest in adding private universities be they religious or not. Also other states aren't Pennsylvania and won't let one of their major universities get bumped down to the minor leagues, take a look at how Virginia Tech ended up in the ACC.

If BYU eased up on that stuff, the Big12 would be interested.
 
If BYU eased up on that stuff, the Big12 would be interested.
The Big 12 doesn't want to split the revenue pie up anymore than they have to and will stay at 10 for as long as they can. Also BYU hasn't been any type or "power" either nationally or regionally in a long time and is fading into irrelevance football wise.
 
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The Big 12 doesn't want to split the revenue pie up anymore than they have to and will stay at 10 for as long as they can. Also BYU hasn't been any type or "power" either nationally or regionally in a long time and is fading into irrelevance football wise.

That was under the current GOR. We don't know yet if ESPN will pay more for a 12 team conference.

Football quality and/or relevance has NOTHING to do with conference expansion. If it did, Pitt wouldn't be in the ACC.
 
That was under the current GOR. We don't know yet if ESPN will pay more for a 12 team conference.

Football quality and/or relevance has NOTHING to do with conference expansion. If it did, Pitt wouldn't be in the ACC.

Actually, it does. Otherwise you can’t explain Nebraska to the Big Ten, TCU and WVU to the Big 12, or Louisville to the ACC. It is one factor, and it is why Pitt is in the ACC and not Temple, Rutgers, or UConn.
 
Actually, it does. Otherwise you can’t explain Nebraska to the Big Ten, TCU and WVU to the Big 12, or Louisville to the ACC. It is one factor, and it is why Pitt is in the ACC and not Temple, Rutgers, or UConn.

How are all those "quality" moves working out?

The model changed. You can bet the media folks are going to have a say. That's why Rutgers and Maryland suddenly "fit" in the B1G. That's why the ACC did a devil's deal with ND. And that's why the Big12 passed on expansion a few years ago.
 
How are all those "quality" moves working out?

The model changed. You can bet the media folks are going to have a say. That's why Rutgers and Maryland suddenly "fit" in the B1G. That's why the ACC did a devil's deal with ND. And that's why the Big12 passed on expansion a few years ago.

Great, actually. Every one of them has resulted in significantly increased revenue for the schools.
 
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