who is the most overrated Pittsburgh athlete ever?

[Revenge Of The Noise]

When I saw the posts of Huey Richardson, Greg Hawthorne et al it led me to think I misinterpreted the thread. If you are talking about high draft picks who busted, then I obviously withdraw Franco's name. As I wrote i don't think he was a freak of talent compared to the legend he was made to be. But he was certainly not a bust.

If the intent of the thread is high level busts, allow me to submit Alexei Morozov.

 

[load1079]

Hah - I'm not from Pittsburgh or a Pittsburgh sports fan, but calling Jason Kendall overrated just confirms my lifelong suspicion that Pittsburgh has extremely unknowledgeable bigger-picture sports fan. They provide exceptional support (when times are good), but to call Jason Kendall overrated, a guy who batted .306 over 9 seasons and stole 15 bases a year, plus was a 3x All Star as a catcher, for a putrid franchise, is just comical...

He wasn't just overrated. He was an obscenely overrated player. I think you need to look up the definition of the word - he fits the definition perfectly. He had some very good years for the Pirates, but he was treated like a Superstar in Pgh. He's not that.

He's a solid player who made 3 all star games in Pittsburgh because someone from every team has to make it, not because he was one of the 2 or 3 best catchers in the NL at the time. The Pirates grossly over paid him as well and were stuck with a terrible contact for him towards the end of his stint in Pgh.

Guy played his ass off and was good for a stretch. But he is the definition of overrated because he was treated like he could make a Barry Bonds like impact when at best he was a solid player on a winning team. He didn't even have a Jeff King level impact. No one hit singles up the middle like him though...the Bucco's savior!

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It's as if some of you don't remember that Jason Kendall was actually one of the best catchers in the league right up until he played most of a season with a broken bone in his hand because he refused to allow the team to sit him out. He went from being one of the best catchers in the majors to being a below average catcher, and he was never as good as he was pre-injury again.

He had three years in a row of .327/.411/.473, .332/.428/.511, .320/.412/.470 before he hurt his hand. That season that he played injured he put up .266/.335/.358. Notice the difference? His slugging percentage only topped .390 once after that, at .416. Gee, I wonder why?

If you are looking for a recent Pirate to put on the list it's clearly Jack Wilson. This town had a hard on for him, and he was a little above average fielding, below average hitting shortstop. Guys like him are a dime a dozen, but too many people in this town thought he was something special.

 

[daminals76]

Justin King
Lamont Wade
Robert Foster

 

[BFo8]

Gabe Rivera. From what we've heard over the years this guy was basically a HOF'er.

No one has a clue if he would've been an impact player or not, but because the clueless Pgh media said he would've been a superstar most believe it.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

He's a solid player who made 3 all star games in Pittsburgh because someone from every team has to make it, not because he was one of the 2 or 3 best catchers in the NL at the time.

That is simply factually incorrect. In 1996 the All Star backup catchers were Kendall and Todd Hundley. Hundley was a better hitter that year by a pretty good margin, but let's not forget that he was also an awful defensive catcher, much worse than the mostly mediocre Kendall was. In 1998 Javy Lopez was the other backup catcher and not withstanding his superior power, Kendall was still more offensively valuable that season. And it's not like Lopez was some top notch fielder either. And then in 2000 Kendall started. The backups were Mike Piazza (who started the other two years), who is a Hall of Famer. Yeah, no shyte, Kendall wasn't as good as him. There were two other catchers picked that season, Mike Lieberthal, who didn't have as good a season as Kendall that year, and Joe Girardi, who had a much worse season than the other three and wasn't even close to the player that Kendall was that year. And Kendall wasn't the only Pirate who made it that year, because Brian Giles had a great year that year and he was on the All Star team as well.

 

[BeardedPanther25]

McCutchen

Surprised he's only been mentioned once which sorta confirms just how overrated he's been.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Surprised he's only been mentioned once which sorta confirms just how overrated he's been.

In the four years before last year he was 3rd, 1st, 3rd and 5th in the MVP voting. Unless someone thinks he's the best player in baseball he's not overrated.

 

[load1079]

That is simply factually incorrect. In 1996 the All Star backup catchers were Kendall and Todd Hundley. Hundley was a better hitter that year by a pretty good margin, but let's not forget that he was also an awful defensive catcher, much worse than the mostly mediocre Kendall was. In 1998 Javy Lopez was the other backup catcher and not withstanding his superior power, Kendall was still more offensively valuable that season. And it's not like Lopez was some top notch fielder either. And then in 2000 Kendall started. The backups were Mike Piazza (who started the other two years), who is a Hall of Famer. Yeah, no shyte, Kendall wasn't as good as him. There were two other catchers picked that season, Mike Lieberthal, who didn't have as good a season as Kendall that year, and Joe Girardi, who had a much worse season than the other three and wasn't even close to the player that Kendall was that year. And Kendall wasn't the only Pirate who made it that year, because Brian Giles had a great year that year and he was on the All Star team as well.

The point of the thread is identifying overrated Pittsburgh athletes. Jason Kendall was billed as the key building block on a future championship team. I don't care how many singles he had in a year, he was never the key piece on a playoff team. Therefore, overrated. And not by a little either.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Gabe Rivera. From what we've heard over the years this guy was basically a HOF'er.

No one has a clue if he would've been an impact player or not, but because the clueless Pgh media said he would've been a superstar most believe it.

Career cut short by a traffic accident, and the guy is overrated? Guilty of extremely bad judgment for driving under the influence, and is paying the price for the rest of his life as a result, but overrated?

 

[BFo8]

Career cut short by a traffic accident, and the guy is overrated? Guilty of extremely bad judgment for driving under the influence, and is paying the price for the rest of his life as a result, but overrated?

Overrated because of all the hype of how great he would've been amongst media types.

Senor Sack maybe been a great player or he may have been Huey Richardson, we have no way of no knowing.

 

[BFo8]

The Jason Kendall stuff is ridiculous, guy was a solid catcher for 10+ years, no one expected him to be a HOF'er .

IMO I would think of guys like Willie Stargell, Lynn Swann and Al Oliver.

 

[Saboteur]

Overrated because of all the hype of how great he would've been amongst media types.

Senor Sack maybe been a great player or he may have been Huey Richardson, we have no way of no knowing.

He wasn't overrated. He was a college AA who was having a damn fine year as a DL rookie. No DL rookie for the Steelers has sniffed his first year success.
Senior Sack made a mistake and paid dearly for it.
But he didn't quit on life. Look him up. He's been a productive man.
In my book, he's underrated.

 

[DejuanaMan]

Bubby Brister

 

[Parkview57]

Mark Malone

 

[andypappas]

Justin King
Lamont Wade
Robert Foster

Get over it. Just because a kid doesn't go to Pitt you put him on this list? Come on

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Definitely this guy Roc he trips over his tail!

 

[4Mark_Marty]

Tie
Franco and Hines

 

[wbrpanther]

i said marc andre fleury in the pens thread, which caused one poster to go into full meltdown mode

if not him, who?

i think an argument can be made for jerome bettis, who else?

I don't think you get the meaning of the word overrated based on the two guys you mentioned.

 

[wbrpanther]

Franco. Yea I'm jaded by his current advocacy of Sandusky's deeds ... but he was just a jabroni back in the right place at the right time.

yeah, any joker off the street could have done what he did. Right

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I don't care how many singles he had in a year, he was never the key piece on a playoff team. Therefore, overrated. And not by a little either.

Well that's just, well, I'll be polite and say not all that bright and leave it at that. I mean you realize that it takes a lot more to make the baseball playoffs than one player, right?

Just out of curiosity, is Ernie Banks also a greatly overrated player because he never played on a team that made the playoffs?

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

Career cut short by a traffic accident, and the guy is overrated? Guilty of extremely bad judgment for driving under the influence, and is paying the price for the rest of his life as a result, but overrated?

Rivera had two sacks in six games before the accident. So sad what happened to him. He was huge for his time weighing over 300 pounds. He would have been like Ngata when he was in his prime with the Ravens.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Well that's just, well, I'll be polite and say not all that bright and leave it at that. I mean you realize that it takes a lot more to make the baseball playoffs than one player, right?

Just out of curiosity, is Ernie Banks also a greatly overrated player because he never played on a team that made the playoffs?

Dan Marino? I mean anyone going to use the "no postseason" argument has to then hold the same standard when judging Marino, right?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Dan Marino? I mean anyone going to use the "no postseason" argument has to then hold the same standard when judging Marino, right?

Absolutely. Although Marino did make the playoffs. But there are people that knock him for never being able to win the big one. At some point in time you'd think that people would understand that in team sports it takes more than one guy, no matter how good that guy is, to win games, let alone championships.

If we were talking about an individual sport like golf or tennis then yeah, whether or not someone can win majors is a big deal in assessing their legacy. Because if they don't win they have no one to blame but themselves. But if Joe Montana spent his career playing for the Saints and never won a Super Bowl would that mean that he wasn't a great player? Was John Elway not a great quarterback until the last two years of his career when he was able to ride the legs of a running back having two absolutely great seasons to back to back Super Bowls, and then all the sudden he was a great player?

 

[Pittx9]

People don't realize the teams Marino played on. Marino was so good that people actually consider his best receivers during his prime pretty good. They were barely average. Miami usually didn't have a defense either. It was literally a hall of fame coach in Shula, Dan Marino at qb, and 3/4 of the rest of the team was a bunch of mediocre NFL players for most of Marino's best seasons. Put him on the steelers, the bears, the redskins, probably even the raiders and his career ends with many, many more accolades.

 

[California Panther]

If you allow high school players and not living up to what their "down the line" potential seemed to be--don't think anyone has mentioned Brian Davis?

 

[Pitt79]

This might be the most stupid thread ever. Players who are in the Hall of Fame, Super Bowl stars, and Stanley Cup heroes are being called "overrated"?

Some of you are clueless.

I agree, some are calling 2 RBs with over 12,000 career NFL yards over rated? A WR with 1000 catches in the NFL over rated. a goalie who is 15th in wins in NHL history over rated, even Bobby Bonilla wasn't over rated, I don't think anyone ever called him more than an MLB All Star quality player, which he was. Maybe Kordell Stewart was over rated, when he had his first year as a starter, he threw 21 TD passes and ran for 11 TDs and everyone thought he was the new breed QB of the future.

 

[Pitt79]

If you allow high school players and not living up to what their "down the line" potential seemed to be--don't think anyone has mentioned Brian Davis?

I met him personally, nice guy, I remember being out at a party with him there one night, getting really hammered! Fun times, except that the next day he had finals he needed to pass to stay eligible, he never played again, oh well.

 

[load1079]

Well that's just, well, I'll be polite and say not all that bright and leave it at that. I mean you realize that it takes a lot more to make the baseball playoffs than one player, right?

Just out of curiosity, is Ernie Banks also a greatly overrated player because he never played on a team that made the playoffs?

I never said anything about one person makes a team. Maybe I need to be clearer for some folks.

Jason Kendall was billed as the central piece of a Pirates rebuild and eventual contender. He was not and never was that, regardless of how much hype he got (and he got a ton locally - he was really built up). They type of player you build upon is Barry Bonds, Kris Bryant, Paul Goldschmidt...someone that dramatically impacts a game. There was never a team around Kendall so I don't blame him for those teams doing nothing, but he also was not a game changing player. He hit singles. By definition, he was overrated because he wasn't what Greg Brown and the organization built him up as.

Again, I think you are confused about what the word overrated means. It doesn't mean someone sucks. It means they are valued more than what they are worth. Kendall was exact that. Dan Marino was not overrated - his teams probably never even make the playoffs without him.

Serious question - Would you take Jason Kendall over Gregory Polanco as the first person to build your team around? What about Starlin Marte? Neither of those guys are super stars (at least not yet), but if I'm building a team I'd want either over in his prime Kendall. Context is your friend if you bother to use it.

 

[Swervin27]

Connie Hawkins and joe Namath. Both being in their hall of fames are a joke

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

If you allow high school players and not living up to what their "down the line" potential seemed to be--don't think anyone has mentioned Brian Davis?

But again, "not living up to potential" and "overrated" are two different things. For one thing, a guy "overrated" still could be great. For example, Emmitt Smith is an overrated Running Back. Yes he was great. He won Super Bowls. He is the leading rusher. But IMO (and many others) he was nowhere near a Jim Brown, OJ Simpson, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders. He was a great RB on a great team. But he was not an all time best. This is why Jerome Bettis is a good inclusion on this list. He was good. But was he really great?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Connie Hawkins and joe Namath. Both being in their hall of games are a joke

Joe Namath is a perfect example.

 

[Swervin27]

Joe Namath is a perfect example.

Some of the names on this thread are just weird. Did I really see a jack Wilson reference? Tough to list any 70s steelers since they accomplished so much on field.

Hines ward was an over achiever from day one. Not a better blocker ever and put up great numbers despite being very mediocre from a size or speed factor.

 

[DejuanaMan]

Ty Cobb

 

[Swervin27]

But again, "not living up to potential" and "overrated" are two different things. For one thing, a guy "overrated" still could be great. For example, Emmitt Smith is an overrated Running Back. Yes he was great. He won Super Bowls. He is the leading rusher. But IMO (and many others) he was nowhere near a Jim Brown, OJ Simpson, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders. He was a great RB on a great team. But he was not an all time best. This is why Jerome Bettis is a good inclusion on this list. He was good. But was he really great?

Bettis is special because of his durability and how long he played, specific to the style of runner he was. Such a physical back that played for what? 13 years? 6 years in a row for steelers with 1000k plus and in 97 would have the season record if he played last game.

He didn't have the break away runs when the game was out of doubt which defined Barry sanders career, which makes these stats even more impressive.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

He wasn't just overrated. He was an obscenely overrated player. I think you need to look up the definition of the word - he fits the definition perfectly. He had some very good years for the Pirates, but he was treated like a Superstar in Pgh. He's not that.

He's a solid player who made 3 all star games in Pittsburgh because someone from every team has to make it, not because he was one of the 2 or 3 best catchers in the NL at the time. The Pirates grossly over paid him as well and were stuck with a terrible contact for him towards the end of his stint in Pgh.

Guy played his ass off and was good for a stretch. But he is the definition of overrated because he was treated like he could make a Barry Bonds like impact when at best he was a solid player on a winning team. He didn't even have a Jeff King level impact. No one hit singles up the middle like him though...the Bucco's savior!

Not his fault he was surrounded by AAA talent. I also don't remember people treating him like a star. Back then the Bucs had already assumed doormat position and weren't getting much hype and press to begin with.

I might put Gerrit Cole on the list.

 

[chethejet]

I would say Neal O'Donnell and Brian (Clerisil) Giles were far more third person than anyone in Pgh sports.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

yeah, any joker off the street could have done what he did. Right

Glad you finally saw the light!

He was productive, due to his relative longevity, wasn't often injured (thanks to his passive running style), and I don't recall him fumbling a whole lot. So I'll grant you that. As I said above, he was certainly not a bust.

Otherwise, he was nothing special.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

Not his fault he was surrounded by AAA talent. I also don't remember people treating him like a star. Back then the Bucs had already assumed doormat position and weren't getting much hype and press to begin with.

I might put Gerrit Cole on the list.

AAA is being kind.

 

[Swervin27]

When I saw the posts of Huey Richardson, Greg Hawthorne et al it led me to think I misinterpreted the thread. If you are talking about high draft picks who busted, then I obviously withdraw Franco's name. As I wrote i don't think he was a freak of talent compared to the legend he was made to be. But he was certainly not a bust.

If the intent of the thread is high level busts, allow me to submit Alexei Morozov.

Morozov had an incredible career in khl.