who is the most overrated Pittsburgh athlete ever?

[Pitt79]

bettis shouldn't be in the hall of fame, he compiled numbers

Yup, he rushed for the 6th most yards EVER, over 100 years of NFL history. Numbers matter, longevity matters, and he was a winner, he played 90% of his career without a QB that was worth a crap, he carried a lot of those teams. YES HE SHOULD BE IN THE HofF.

 

[upj87]

bettis shouldn't be in the hall of fame, he compiled numbers

fleury in the hall of fame LOL you guys clearly don't watch hockey

I was unaware that fleury was in the hall of fame. uh, and last time I checked, compiled numbers get ya in.

 

[Pittx9]

Bettis is 6th in rushing yards all time in NFL history and won a Super Bowl, MAF is 15th all time in goalie wins in NHL history and won two Stanley Cups, that's 2 guys, that far up on the lists, over ONE HUNDRED YEARS of history, how can these people be "overrated"? That's just stupid.

Yet another post calling his bizarre hatreds stupid. His agenda has been revealed.

 

[Pitt79]

kordell stewart was never well liked, definitely not overrated with the fans

He was overrated for awhile, coming into 1998, after his great 1st year as a starter, 21 passing TDs, 11 rushing. People thought he was a fantasy football stud in the making and the new breed NFL star QB.

 

[Pitt79]

roethlisberger is overrated, he is very good but never on the same tier as brady, manning, rodgers, or brees

many put him in that tier but he is not, that is why he is overrated

Only Brady is clearly better than Ben.

Didn't you say that Bettis is only about numbers? Well then those others have slightly better numbers than ben and less team success. Ben in fact is underrated, as proven by your post.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Bettis is 6th in rushing yards all time in NFL history and won a Super Bowl, MAF is 15th all time in goalie wins in NHL history and won two Stanley Cups, that's 2 guys, that far up on the lists, over ONE HUNDRED YEARS of history, how can these people be "overrated"? That's just stupid.

Cause again, "overrated" does not mean "suck". Emmitt Smith is "overrated". He is the All time NFL leading rusher, a great back. But do you really think he was one of the 10 best RB's? MAF is definitely a bit overrated by the local media and populace. To be honest, I have never seen an athlete get more of a "pass", because he is such a great guy. People feel bad for slamming him. That doesn't mean he sucks, he is probably one of the 12-14 best goalies over the past decade. I don't think Corey Crawford is particularly great either. Then again, there are alot of supposedly great goalies, HOF locks in the NHL right now who have yet to hoist a Stanley Cup. So maybe MAF and Crawford aren't so "overrated".

 

[Pitt79]

his two rings were won with defense he was horrible those seasons and would've missed the playoffs without the great defense

Ben's two rings where won UNILATERALLY BY HIM...

2005, he lifted the team on his shoulders and carried them with his arm to the Super Bowl, even made the most important tackle of the season.

2008, Steelers never win the Super Bowl if they hand the ball to Kordell or Maddox, at his own 20 with 2;37 left, HE CARRIED THE TEAM on that drive and made a HALL OF FAME quality pass to Holmes to win the Super Bowl.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Only Brady is clearly better than Ben.

Didn't you say that Bettis is only about numbers? Well then those others have slightly better numbers than ben and less team success. Ben in fact is underrated, as proven by your post.

Yeah Bradly lost me when he included Brees. What, why not Rivers and Romo too? I would say Brady, Manning and Rodgers are better than Ben. Then you put him at the next spot. I don't think that is "overrated" and I think in today's fantasy football mania, he is underrated.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Ben's two rings where won UNILATERALLY BY HIM...

2005, he lifted the team on his shoulders and carried them with his arm to the Super Bowl, even made the most important tackle of the season.

2008, Steelers never win the Super Bowl if they hand the ball to Kordell or Maddox, at his own 20 with 2;37 left, HE CARRIED THE TEAM on that drive and made a HALL OF FAME quality pass to Holmes to win the Super Bowl.

In 2005, he played horrible in the Super Bowl. But people forget how good he was in the 3 playoff games to get to the Super Bowl.

It is funny, people talk about Montana's drive, Elway, all of these guys, but Ben's drive at the end of that 2008 Super Bowl was as good as any drive. Ever. Clutch.

 

[Pitt79]

it's not a negative, it just shouldn't be a reason a player makes the hall of fame

Sure it should, George Blanda played 26 years, damn right he deserves to be in the hall of fame.

If you can play forever and accumulate big numbers, that by itself is a reason to be deserving.

 

[Pitt79]

ben had 17 touchdowns and 9 interceptions in 2005, how is that a difference maker? he almost lost the super bowl himself, that game alone would've prevented him from winning a "conn smythe"

2008 he had 17 touchdowns and 15 interceptions, that 2008 defense is so underrated because they carried his fatass while he gets all the credit

The defense wins nothing without him carrying them in those '05 playoffs and SB 43.

 

[Swervin27]

The defense wins nothing without him carrying them in those '05 playoffs and SB 43.

Our offense dominated in that playoff run..

Sun. Jan. 8 4:30 p.m. at Cincinnati Bengals W 31–17
DIV Sun. Jan. 15 1:00 p.m. at Indianapolis Colts W 21–18
AFCCG Sun. Jan. 22 3:00 p.m. at Denver Broncos W 34–17


In that '05 play off run, he had QB ratings of 148, 95, and 124. He had 7 TD passes and 1 INT. Bettis did very little in that playoff run, it was pretty much ALL Ben. He had 680 yards passing in those 3 playoff games...

Yeah, he had a bad super bowl, no one is arguing that but we made the super bowl because of him and pretty much only him.

 

[Pitt79]

In 2005, he played horrible in the Super Bowl. But people forget how good he was in the 3 playoff games to get to the Super Bowl.

It is funny, people talk about Montana's drive, Elway, all of these guys, but Ben's drive at the end of that 2008 Super Bowl was as good as any drive. Ever. Clutch.

Exactly, you have to get to the Super Bowl to play horrible in it, and he carried them there vs. the 1, 2 and 3 seeds of the AFC on the road. And then truly the SB 43 drive is as great as anything Elway or Montana ever did.

 

[upj87]

Cause again, "overrated" does not mean "suck". Emmitt Smith is "overrated". He is the All time NFL leading rusher, a great back. But do you really think he was one of the 10 best RB's? MAF is definitely a bit overrated by the local media and populace. To be honest, I have never seen an athlete get more of a "pass", because he is such a great guy. People feel bad for slamming him. That doesn't mean he sucks, he is probably one of the 12-14 best goalies over the past decade. I don't think Corey Crawford is particularly great either. Then again, there are alot of supposedly great goalies, HOF locks in the NHL right now who have yet to hoist a Stanley Cup. So maybe MAF and Crawford aren't so "overrated".

dummy me I always thought "overrated" meant not living up to the hype that surrounds you. Not sure how someone who wins two super bowls and goes to another (big Ben) or the leading rusher of all time (Smith) does not live up to their hype.

 

[Pitt79]

Cause again, "overrated" does not mean "suck". Emmitt Smith is "overrated". He is the All time NFL leading rusher, a great back. But do you really think he was one of the 10 best RB's?

Yes! lasting that long, compiling that number, 3 rings, yes, absolutely yes. he is arguably the best RB.

By your criteria, Marino is highly overrated, big numbers, compiled over a long time, no titles, HE IS overrated. If not, EXPLAIN IN DETAIL, why not?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Yes! lasting that long, compiling that number, 3 rings, yes, absolutely yes. he is arguably the best RB.

By your criteria, Marino is highly overrated, big numbers, compiled over a long time, no titles, HE IS overrated. If not, EXPLAIN IN DETAIL, why not?

You could definitely put together an argument that Marino was "overrated". Even in the biggest game at Pitt (48-14) his interceptions fueled the PSU comeback and he had no answer. He really never won a big game.

But then again, from purely a physical standpoint, he was the single greatest QB I ever saw. No one threw the ball as well as he did. No one.

 

[Swervin27]

You could definitely put together an argument that Marino was "overrated". Even in the biggest game at Pitt (48-14) his interceptions fueled the PSU comeback and he had no answer. He really never won a big game.

But then again, from purely a physical standpoint, he was the single greatest QB I ever saw. No one threw the ball as well as he did. No one.

he threw a frozen rope about 45 yards in stride in that sugar bowl game, pretty much while backpedaling. his release was ridiculous too. he just flips it and boom, it's gone.. no wind up, no raising it, just a flip..

 

[Pitt79]

But then again, from purely a physical standpoint, he was the single greatest QB I ever saw. No one threw the ball as well as he did. No one.

Yeah, some people think that aesthetics matter. Like Gale Sayers great moves trump longevity, numbers or rings.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Yeah, some people think that aesthetics matter. Like Gale Sayers great moves trump longevity, numbers or rings.

Okay, but longevity helps, but let's not use that as the arbiter of greatness. Jaromir Jagr blows Mario Lemieux out of the water in volume statistics because he played forever. Please don't tell me you consider Jagr better, let alone Lemieux's equal. Because if you do, you are dead wrong.

 

[lilspainishflea]

you admit to being outraged, jesus dude i'm embarrassed for you, get a life this isn't that serious

i am a pitt fan though i'm not sure why that makes a difference on how you take my views, that is weird

ben had 17 touchdowns and 9 interceptions in 2005, how is that a difference maker? he almost lost the super bowl himself, that game alone would've prevented him from winning a "conn smythe"

2008 he had 17 touchdowns and 15 interceptions, that 2008 defense is so underrated because they carried his fatass while he gets all the credit

he is overrated, never came close to winning shit without a good defense

guys like bettis in the hall waters down the hall, davis was a league mvp and a super bowl mvp and should've been in the hall years ago

2008 Ben had no weapons either. Willie Parker with 800 yards rushing in 11 games and Mewelde Moore with 600 in 5 starts and spot action. Hines Ward had 1000 yards receiving and Holmes had 800. They OL probably didn't have a guy in the top 10 at any position and featured Max Starks, Chris Kemoatu, Justin Hartwig, Darnel Stapleton (who?), and Willie Colon. Those guys were terrible in pass protection.

So before you throw Ben under the bus and say he wasn't any good in 2008, realize that might be the worst starting offense to win the super bowl in the last 15 years.

 

[upj87]

Okay, but longevity helps, but let's not use that as the arbiter of greatness. Jaromir Jagr blows Mario Lemieux out of the water in volume statistics because he played forever. Please don't tell me you consider Jagr better, let alone Lemieux's equal. Because if you do, you are dead wrong.

thought the topic was "overrated"? Neither Jagr or Lemieux is.

 

[Saboteur]

What? There are guys in the HoF with a career batting average in the .250s and .260s. Mike Schmidt is usually regarded as the greatest third baseman of all time and had a career batting average of .267. There are a bunch of guys in the HoF with a career betting average below .280. That being said, Kiner is not in the HoF because of his batting average. It is completely silly to focus on his batting average while ignoring his power in what was a shortened career.

Ty Cobb and Ted Williams are not the average Hall of Famers when it comes to batting average.

Kiner was a one trick pony who played less than a decade.
Kiners Korner. The gift for Hank Greenberg benefitted Kiner as left went from 365/406 to 335/375.
He hit more HRs at home (while with Pgh) than on the road.
Of course he is in the HoF for one reason.
He isn't in because of his defense either. He was slow and had a candy arm.
So let's compare him to some others with lower BAs.

Schmidt 548 Hrs, 10 gold gloves, 1558 RBIs. 18 years in league.
Catchers: 11 total in HoF due to grueling position.
Campy..ripped off 6 years because he had to play in Negro League. MLB 242 HRs, 3 time league MVP, 5 time gold glove.

Bench: 17 years in league. 17! 10 Gold gloves (10), league RBI leader thrice, 389 HRS, BA 267.

Ripken. 431 Hrs, 21 years in league. Most consecutive games played.

Kiner has no business being in the HoF. None.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

i said marc andre fleury in the pens thread, which caused one poster to go into full meltdown mode

if not him, who?

i think an argument can be made for jerome bettis, who else?

Well, the term overrated is inherently subjective. These types of discussions are impossible because there's no agreed-upon scoring system.

Overrated by whom?

Fleury won a Stanley Cup championship and was an important part of it. I don't know how that guy can ever be on an overrated list?

The same goes for Bettis. He too is a champion and he is in the Pro football Hall of Fame. If he's overrated, a lot of people overrate him.

For me, that mantle should belong to someone that never delivered a championship but was considered better than he was while he was here.

With that criteria in mind the name that immediately jumped into my head was Andy Van Slyke. I always thought he was solid but nothing more. He was definitely wildly overrated by most Pirates fans at the time. Jay Bell would also fall into that category.

I've got another one that people will almost certainly misunderstand: Jack Lambert. Personally, I don't think he was overrated because he was a champion and an important part of championship teams. He is a well deserved Hall of Famer. However, if that doesn't matter, as evidenced above, then I would submit him for consideration.

Don't get me wrong, "Jack Splat" was a great player, but he could only play at 218 pounds because no one ever touched him. He had these incredible defensive linemen in front of him commanding everyone's attention and basically allowed him to run free on every down.

Now, to his credit, he certainly made the most of his opportunity. However, a lot of middle linebackers from that era would've loved to have been in his position.

 

[Swervin27]

Well, the term overrated is inherently subjective. These types of discussions are impossible because there's no agreed-upon scoring system.

Overrated by whom?

Fleury won a Stanley Cup championship and was an important part of it. I don't know how that guy can ever be on an overrated list?

The same goes for Bettis. He too is a champion and he is in the Pro football Hall of Fame. If he's overrated, a lot of people overrate him.

For me, that mantle should belong to someone that never delivered a championship but was considered better than he was while he was here.

With that criteria in mind the name that immediately jumped into my head was Andy Van Slyke. I always thought he was solid but nothing more. He was definitely wildly overrated by most Pirates fans at the time. Jay Bell would also fall into that category.

I've got another one that people will almost certainly misunderstand: Jack Lambert. Personally, I don't think he was overrated because he was a champion and an important part of championship teams. However, if that doesn't matter, as evidenced above, then I would submit him for consideration.

Don't get me wrong, "Jack Splat" was a great player, but he could only play at 218 pounds because no one ever touched him. He had these incredible defensive linemen in front of him commanding everyone's attention and basically allowed him to run free on every down.

A lot of middle linebackers from that era would've loved to have been in his position.

Jack Lambert? Hmmm, interesting. tough to say because he is before my time so I am only subject to the highlights and lore of him. he did have a hell of a line in front of him. man, I loved Van Slyke though, he was such a great centerfielder..

 

[Nardog2]

^^^ Jason Kendall ^^^

Guy was average at best. Ppl slobbered over him.

Jason Kendall was absolutely not n average player for the pirates, especially at his position. Before his injury, he was one of the best catchers in the game, and his numbers in his first five years indicated a near hall of fame type career.

Before the injury, his BA was near .320. Even though he didn't hit jokers, hit still had an OPS well over .800, and the steals were very unusual for a catcher.

I would say the guy was underrated. Even including lesser years after his injury he still finished with a career .308 average with the pirates, and over an .800 OPS.

 

[Nardog2]

Surprised he's only been mentioned once which sorta confirms just how overrated he's been.

Another really dumb post. Prior to
Last year mccutchen was one of the best players in baseball.

 

[upj87]

Kiner was a one trick pony who played less than a decade.
Kiners Korner. The gift for Hank Greenberg benefitted Kiner as left went from 365/406 to 335/375.
He hit more HRs at home (while with Pgh) than on the road.
Of course he is in the HoF for one reason.
He isn't in because of his defense either. He was slow and had a candy arm.
So let's compare him to some others with lower BAs.

Schmidt 548 Hrs, 10 gold gloves, 1558 RBIs. 18 years in league.
Catchers: 11 total in HoF due to grueling position.
Campy..ripped off 6 years because he had to play in Negro League. MLB 242 HRs, 3 time league MVP, 5 time gold glove.

Bench: 17 years in league. 17! 10 Gold gloves (10), league RBI leader thrice, 389 HRS, BA 267.

Ripken. 431 Hrs, 21 years in league. Most consecutive games played.

Kiner has no business being in the HoF. None.

Kiner has no business being in the HoF. None.....man, did he bang your grandmother or something? The topic here is most overrated Pittsburgh athlete ever. If you want to make yourself look silly by saying a guy who averaged over 40 home runs and 100 rbis a year while playing in town (on a still long 335 down the line field) rates that title do continue as it is entertaining and may reflect some deep seeded hatred for this guy (ie, he left Nana high and dry with a wham bam thank you mam) ....

 

[Nardog2]

Neil walker-average player, bit since he was from here should have been paid 15 million a year.

Jack Wilson, Xavier nady, Freddy Sanchez as well.

 

[Swervin27]

Neil walker-average player, bit since he was from here should have been paid 15 million a year.

Jack Wilson, Xavier nady, Freddy Sanchez as well.

Freddy Sanchez? Xavier Nady? When did anyone ever even acknowledge these players? How are you over rated if about 15 people even know these names?

 

[Swervin27]

not an athlete but Jim Leyland is WAY over loved in this city and I just don't get it. yeah, he yelled at barry bonds in spring training, great for him. other than that, what did he do? I could have coached those early 90's teams and won just as many games.

 

[upj87]

not an athlete but Jim Leyland is WAY over loved in this city and I just don't get it. yeah, he yelled at barry bonds in spring training, great for him. other than that, what did he do? I could have coached those early 90's teams and won just as many games.

over loved <> overrated. Decent enough guy. Pretty much think the fan base thought Leyland choked those three years (at least the last two) so that in no way makes him overrated legacy wise.. Was kind of nice to see him show up at Rooney's funeral yesterday. .

 

[Pitt79]

There's a fine line between overrated and great- a lot of things matter. If Ben had been drafted by Cleveland? If Philip Rivers had gone to the Steelers? If Babe Ruth had been traded to the White Sox instead of the Yankees? If Bradshaw had gone to the Saints? Who's great and who isn't might be different.

 

[Swervin27]

There's a fine line between overrated and great- a lot of things matter. If Ben had been drafted by Cleveland? If Philip Rivers had gone to the Steelers? If Babe Ruth had been traded to the White Sox instead of the Yankees? If Bradshaw had gone to the Saints? Who's great and who isn't might be different.

it's such a great point in regards to first round QB draft picks in the NFL. How many of these busts were busts because they were forced into action, on a bad team, and had very little chance of success no matter who they were. and after a year or two of not doing well, they were cast offs.. How many of those same guys, had they been drafted on another team, maybe had a year or two to be a backup, could have had great careers?

I look at Ben, yes he was thrust into it his first year when Maddox went down, but we had such a strong defense and such an incredible run game, that he did not have to really take the team on his shoulders. that rookie season, he had 2 regular season games where he really was asked to do much thru the air. dallas and the Giants, and he had two very good games. the rest of those wins, he had to do very little in the second half and Duce and Bettis were so effective. A lot of those games, he had under 10 passing attempts in the second half and we won about 8-9 games kneeling on the ball.

Obviously he got better and was asked to do more. what if the browns drafted him and played him in his first year? What happens when they go 2-14 and ask him to throw 35 times a game? He sucks, the browns suck and after 2 seasons, dude learned nothing, got sacked 80 times and has zero confidence.

 

[Pitt79]

I read a story about how Babe Ruth was actually traded to the White Sox, but the league president overruled it, and then was traded to the Yankees. The story was that in Chicago the teams where very bad after the Black Sox scandal, way less talent than the Yankees and the right field foul pole was 40 feet farther away than Yankee Stadium. Maybe he hits 400 HRs instead of 714 on bad teams and never wins a title, in the end he's not the LEGENDARY FIGURE of Babe Ruth we know.

 

[upj87]

No, he didn't bang my grandmother.
But he obviously banged your Mommy.
The guy was let in by one vote on his last gasp effort after he lobbied like Hell to get in. But since you carry his genes in your pool, that means nothing to you.
HR hitters don't make their living on HRs down the line. In any city.
He is overrated.

40 + hrs/yr.... 110 + rbis/yr as a pirate.... like I said, you are making yourself look silly (uh, hr hitters make a living hitting, uh, hrs).

 

[Pitt79]

Hall of Fames aren't that important. the Leagues don't really care about "Deserving", because they try to induct 5-6 new players/contributors in every year, because it's not important that they be "Deserving", the main thing is to draw fans to the Hall of Fame for the induction weekend and all the ceremonies, and sell stuff, and have a game, and fill the hotels, and make money! If you cared about "Deserving" there might be years that nobody gets in and that would kill the real purpose of it MAKING MORE MONEY.

 

[BFo8]

I read a story about how Babe Ruth was actually traded to the White Sox, but the league president overruled it, and then was traded to the Yankees. The story was that in Chicago the teams where very bad after the Black Sox scandal, way less talent than the Yankees and the right field foul pole was 40 feet farther away than Yankee Stadium. Maybe he hits 400 HRs instead of 714 on bad teams and never wins a title, in the end he's not the LEGENDARY FIGURE of Babe Ruth we know.

Actually none of that is accurate, Ruth went to the Yankees in December of 1919 and the Black Sox scandal didn't break until late August of 1920. They were only a game or so out of first and quite possibly would've won another pennant.

Ruth wasn't traded either, he was sold to the Yankees in order to finance the failing Broadway shows of Red Sox owner Harry Frazee.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Hall of Fames aren't that important. the Leagues don't really care about "Deserving", because they try to induct 5-6 new players/contributors in every year, because it's not important that they be "Deserving", the main thing is to draw fans to the Hall of Fame for the induction weekend and all the ceremonies, and sell stuff, and have a game, and fill the hotels, and make money! If you cared about "Deserving" there might be years that nobody gets in and that would kill the real purpose of it MAKING MORE MONEY.

This is only true to an extent. Jason Taylor and Ladainian Tomlinson were deserving but this year's class was kind of down. Brett Favre and Orlando Pace were obvious choices, same with Harrison although I would have put TO in before him.

In a few years you will have Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Ben all retiring along with guys like Demarcus Ware, Polamalu, Charles Woodson, Gates, Dwight Freeney, etc. There will be several years in a row where you have a MVP/DPOY going in every year.

 

[Pitt79]

Actually none of that is accurate, Ruth went to the Yankees in December of 1919 and the Black Sox scandal didn't break until late August of 1920. They were only a game or so out of first and quite possibly would've won another pennant.

Ruth wasn't traded either, he was sold to the Yankees in order to finance the failing Broadway shows of Red Sox owner Harry Frazee.

No, the later years that Ruth might have been in Chicago the Sox team wasn't good. You're right, he was "sold", OK, but according to a story in the last issue of SI, he was sold to Chicago, before he was sold to NYY, but the AL President nullified it. Go look it up, it was a series of "what if" stories about how sports history may have been different.

 

[Somerset Panther]

People don't realize the teams Marino played on. Marino was so good that people actually consider his best receivers during his prime pretty good. They were barely average. Miami usually didn't have a defense either. It was literally a hall of fame coach in Shula, Dan Marino at qb, and 3/4 of the rest of the team was a bunch of mediocre NFL players for most of Marino's best seasons. Put him on the steelers, the bears, the redskins, probably even the raiders and his career ends with many, many more accolades.

That begs the question was shula making final decision on all the picks in draft because he sure left Marino flapping in the wind with no D.