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10th coach

K

KanePA

Freshman
May 6, 2017
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Vuk is saying it’s a secondary coach.

Mike Mickens who is at Cincinnati
DeAngelo Smith who is at Ohio U

Anyone every heard of them? Thoughts?
 
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Both played at U of Cincinnati. I remember Mickens when he played there. I think that Narduzzi might have overlapped briefly or even recruited them both.

On a related note, with all of these guys that grew up / played / coached in Ohio, how did we only land one Ohio kid this year?
 
Mickens just went back to Cincy as DB coach. Smith was at MSU in ops during HCPN's last year. He has only been a full time assistant for 1 year. These would both be pretty uninspiring hires with essentially no proven track record as coaches or recruiters. Mickens at least has a little more experience.
 
I'd be okay with either. Ideally you want somebody at a smaller school with a little more of a recruiting reputation, i.e. Collins being MAC Recruiter of the Year. But if Narduzzi thinks these guys are going to be Collins in a few years, then go get them before they become Collins. As long as that is his thinking, I'm fine with it.
 
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WiseAndGlorious said:
Pitt adds experienced old guy as coach - complain that Pitt should've hired young African American coach to recruit.

Pitt looks at young African American coach - complain that Pitt should be hiring proven coaches.
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Nope.

HCPN has to build a full staff and will be evaluated on the full staff. Last year's staff + 1 spot vs. this year's perspective staff. The latter is a lot weaker, less proven, and inexperienced. We are replacing 3 coaches and we back filled with lesser options for every one and if either of these guys are hired, hired guys who are also-ran adds and aren't any better than anyone (not evaluating against the best, but against all P5) is doing. It is all a balancing game. Our recruiting isn't near good enough. We need recruiters. We already needed better recruiters. If you want to go for more of a tactician at one spot, you better upgrade your recruiting at another spot.

This is a suspect offseason if this is where we end up.

Eventually HCPN is going to have to hire some guys he hasn't worked directly with, who are proven coaches and recruiters, or we are going to have an 8-9 win ceiling and still have years, like this past one, where we struggle to find 5-6 wins. We can't just always promote lower level coaches and guys who are gaining their experience at Pitt.
 
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JoseLind13 said:
Expectations of some fans for a 10th coach's credentials are probably a bit disconnected from reality of what candidate pool these positions will attract.
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Not considering the hires at other spots. We hired an off the field, experienced, but demoted and again passed over, guy for OL coach. We went to a lower level to replace Hill with a guy who is not a proven recruiter and has no P5 experience. We replaced our DC with a guy who has 1 year experience as a DC at the G5 level and that was 13 years ago. Now, if one of these is the "10th coach" hire, we will have hired a lightly experienced coach and unproven recruiter or a guy with essentially 0 experience as a coach or recruiter.

Collins as the 10th coach? Sure. Not too bad. You hope he can translate his personality into actually winning recruiting battles when players have other options and he can make in roads into a different recruiting area. But that was a bill of goods. Any honest and realistic person knew he wasn't going to be the "10th coach" but instead replace Hill.

The "10th coach" will be no different than any other next year. He will have a position responsibility. Some programs that "10th coach" will have even more responsibility and title.

You can't evaluate these hires in a vacuum. You have to evaluate the hires and the staff in totality. In that context, we did not improve.
 
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Jpripper88 said:
Nope.

HCPN has to build a full staff and will be evaluated on the full staff. Last year's staff + 1 spot vs. this year's perspective staff. The latter is a lot weaker, less proven, and inexperienced. We are replacing 3 coaches and we back filled with lesser options for every one and if either of these guys are hired, hired guys who are also-ran adds and aren't any better than anyone (not evaluating against the best, but against all P5) is doing. It is all a balancing game. Our recruiting isn't near good enough. We need recruiters. We already needed better recruiters. If you want to go for more of a tactician at one spot, you better upgrade your recruiting at another spot.

This is a suspect offseason if this is where we end up.

Eventually HCPN is going to have to hire some guys he hasn't worked directly with, who are proven coaches and recruiters, or we are going to have an 8-9 win ceiling and still have years, like this past one, where we struggle to find 5-6 wins. We can't just always promote lower level coaches and guys who are gaining their experience at Pitt.
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Pitt is an 8-5 type program.
 
Jpripper88 said:
On the average? I can accept that with some years of truly contending for the ACC. That means we need to have some 10 and 11 win seasons to balance out the 5-7 and 6-6. We aren't close to doing that.
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He met that level two out of three years. He is a lot closer than u give him credit for.
 
DiehardPanther said:
He met that level two out of three years. He is a lot closer than u give him credit for.
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No, he met the average, you quoted, twice and also had a 5-7 season. Getting to 10+ wins is another issue entirely and our competition is getting better, not worse.

I can accept that 8-4 (I basically don't care about bowl wins/losses because it is a crapshoot and not necessarily reflective of your season) is an acceptable average, but the way we are recruiting that looks a lot more like our ceiling. That is not good enough. That is especially unacceptable if we are going to have 5-7 years.
 
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bobfree said:
Is our staff better than last years?

We supposedly were willing to spend more to hire and keep coaches....did we do that?
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Pitt doesn't disclose salary information, but I would guess no. We had a DC opening, and hired a position coach to fill it. We had two position coach openings, and hired an analyst from Maryland and a position coach from Central Michigan to fill those. All three might turn out to be good, but they are certainly not moves that would come with a high price tag. It remains to be seen what happens with the 10th assistant, but I'm guessing it will be more of the same.
 
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Jpripper88 said:
The answer to both seems to be a resounding "No."
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I'm not sure if the staff is worse, but only because I don't think the guys we lost were good. Conklin didn't do anything to impress me in 3 years here. Hill was ok I guess but he was supposed to be this super Detroit area recruiter and we haven't landed a kid from Michigan in the Narduzzi era. Peteson was a garbage O-line coach IMO.

We had an opportunity to upgrade a few key spots in a big way, and opted for what seems like low-ceiling coaches in Bates and the O-line guy. I like Collins, but if he is any good he will learn on the job here before getting a better gig in 2 years.
 
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h2p_5150 said:
I'm not sure if the staff is worse, but only because I don't think the guys we lost were good. Conklin didn't do anything to impress me in 3 years here. Hill was ok I guess but he was supposed to be this super Detroit area recruiter and we haven't landed a kid from Michigan in the Narduzzi era. Peteson was a garbage O-line coach IMO.

We had an opportunity to upgrade a few key spots in a big way, and opted for what seems like low-ceiling coaches in Bates and the O-line guy. I like Collins, but if he is any good he will learn on the job here before getting a better gig in 2 years.
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Yeah, we don't know if we will get better results, but we do know we back filled with coaches who were less desirable on paper and reputation.

Any strategy of ours that puts any focus on Michigan or Detroit (which is the only real known connection with Collins) is suspect and will not be fruitful.
 
Jpripper88 said:
Yeah, we don't know if we will get better results, but we do know we back filled with coaches who were less desirable on paper and reputation.

Any strategy of ours that puts any focus on Michigan or Detroit (which is the only real known connection with Collins) is suspect and will not be fruitful.
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Collins also recruits Ohio, but winning battles vs Akron and Toledo to get kids to Central Michigan is not the same as winning battles vs. Michigan State and Louisville to get kids to Pitt.
 
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Well do all you donate I to the 4 figure zone??? At least a grand a year??? I doubt it. That would be a typical pitsburgher, cheap. What separates us is the money. Hey if you can’t go at least a grand a year you got no room to complain take the 8-5


Hail to Pitt
 
h2p_5150 said:
Pitt doesn't disclose salary information, but I would guess no. We had a DC opening, and hired a position coach to fill it. We had two position coach openings, and hired an analyst from Maryland and a position coach from Central Michigan to fill those. All three might turn out to be good, but they are certainly not moves that would come with a high price tag. It remains to be seen what happens with the 10th assistant, but I'm guessing it will be more of the same.
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Conklin was what before he got to Pitt? Narduzzi wanted a DC to stay out of his way. Evidently he no longer feels that way and hired a veteran coach to actually be the DC.

Peterson was doing what when Narduzzi hired him? Peterson was hired because he was Ohio States recruiting coordinator and supposed was connected to recruiting Ohio high schools. Pitt signed 1 recruit from Ohio last season. Offensive line recruiting has netted some numbers each season and less than stellar recruits until last season. Borberly has had a solid career as an offensive line coach (plus supposedly can recruit)

My guess is that both Conklin and Peterson were the hires Narduzzi could afford with his initial budget. With an increased budget, he has updated these positions.

Hill was a coach that Narduzzi probably meant to keep. Pitt recruited pretty highly rated defensive backs (even though not all of them lived up to the hype) Hill got a chance at the NFL who can blame him for taking it. Collins seems like a reasonable replacement,

I thought Narduzzi indicated the 10th coach might be for special teams. I expect(ed) a young, energetic, in demand recruiter who might get a decent salary by having the title of special teams coordinator.
 
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PITT needs to add coaches who can recruit FL, TX, GA, SC, etc.
You drill where there's oil!

That's where the "smart" money is going and PITT better get on this recruiting train sooner than later!

We have enough recruiting coverage for PA and OH which are declining areas of talent. HCPN should be able to handle both PA and OH on his own.

"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!
 
Jpripper88 said:
Nope.

HCPN has to build a full staff and will be evaluated on the full staff. Last year's staff + 1 spot vs. this year's perspective staff. The latter is a lot weaker, less proven, and inexperienced. We are replacing 3 coaches and we back filled with lesser options for every one and if either of these guys are hired, hired guys who are also-ran adds and aren't any better than anyone (not evaluating against the best, but against all P5) is doing. It is all a balancing game. Our recruiting isn't near good enough. We need recruiters. We already needed better recruiters. If you want to go for more of a tactician at one spot, you better upgrade your recruiting at another spot.

This is a suspect offseason if this is where we end up.

Eventually HCPN is going to have to hire some guys he hasn't worked directly with, who are proven coaches and recruiters, or we are going to have an 8-9 win ceiling and still have years, like this past one, where we struggle to find 5-6 wins. We can't just always promote lower level coaches and guys who are gaining their experience at Pitt.
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Guys like you said the SAME stuff when those 3 departed coaches were hired though. Prior to being hired by Narduzzi Renaldo Hill's only coaching experience had been 2 years at Wyoming and one of those was a GA. Before coming to Pitt Conklin had 2 years as DC at the Citadel and one at FIU. The best thing that fans had to say when he was hired was that he wasn't Matt House. Pitt isn't hiring away lateral moves from other P5 programs so change the record.
 
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WiseAndGlorious said:
Guys like you said the SAME stuff when those 3 departed coaches were hired though. Prior to being hired by Narduzzi Renaldo Hill's only coaching experience had been 2 years at Wyoming and one of those was a GA. Before coming to Pitt Conklin had 2 years as DC at the Citadel and one at FIU. The best thing that fans had to say when he was hired was that he wasn't Matt House. Pitt isn't hiring away lateral moves from other P5 programs so change the record.
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Somewhat correct, but again, it is an entire staff makeup and not just individual coaches.

That has lead to 8-5, 8-5, and 5-7, and below par recruiting. Now we downgrade back to that level when we were sold the pitch we would be upgrading and Collins was the 10th coach. So, if our staff and recruiting doesn't improve, neither will the results and they aren't good enough.
 
Jpripper88 said:
Somewhat correct, but again, it is an entire staff makeup and not just individual coaches.

That has lead to 8-5, 8-5, and 5-7, and below par recruiting. Now we downgrade back to that level when we were sold the pitch we would be upgrading and Collins was the 10th coach. So, if our staff and recruiting doesn't improve, neither will the results and they aren't good enough.
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Well you are comparing last season's staff to this current staff and saying it is worse. So essentially you are saying it is about those individual coaches.

You might view Collins as a downgrade because he hasn't coached at a P5 school, but that is about the only thing Hill has over him and we weren't making a lateral hire for a position coach from another P5 program. Experience wise Collins is ahead of where Hill was at hiring.

You might view Bates as a downgrade but with 10 plus years as a position coach at a Big 10 school, he is at least on par with Conklin. If you would rather have hired a DC from a MAC school I can get behind that argument.

Peterson might have been more active recruiter, but Borbely (at least on resume) is an upgrade.
 
WiseAndGlorious said:
Well you are comparing last season's staff to this current staff and saying it is worse. So essentially you are saying it is about those individual coaches.

You might view Collins as a downgrade because he hasn't coached at a P5 school, but that is about the only thing Hill has over him and we weren't making a lateral hire for a position coach from another P5 program. Experience wise Collins is ahead of where Hill was at hiring.

You might view Bates as a downgrade but with 10 plus years as a position coach at a Big 10 school, he is at least on par with Conklin. If you would rather have hired a DC from a MAC school I can get behind that argument.

Peterson might have been more active recruiter, but Borbely (at least on resume) is an upgrade.
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Of course, because that is what we had. I am evaluating the total result, but that comes as a result of examining the individual changes.

We traded a P5 position coach for a G5 position coach. We traded a P5 DC for a P5 position coach. We traded a P5 position coach for an off field special assistant. None of these guys are proven recruiters. Peterson was known as a proven recruiter. Hill was probably our best one on the staff. Borbely has more experience than Peterson as an OL coach, so we hope we got a coaching upgrade there. Maybe we got a coaching upgrade everywhere. We don't know. What we know is we lost our current P5 coaches and added 2 guys who were not P5 assistants last year and another who has 0 P5 experience in the position he takes over.

Just a couple weeks ago HCPN was selling Collins as a 10th assistant. He wasn't and he isn't that, if he is really the replacement for Hill.

If the argument is we should trust that these are upgrades, despite the lack of their track record, experience, and current position, what are you basing it on? That our HC made mistakes in hiring the guys they are replacing? Because that sure would seem like fuzzy logic considering there isn't any more history to provide the basis for that trust.
 
These guys all start somewhere and it's not always Bama or O$U. Jpripper88 has a valid point, though. At some point, Pitt has to start behaving like a ten win school to be a ten win school. Coaching and recruiting are a huge part of it. We like to blame failures on the color of seats or where the stadium is or some other nonsense. If Pitt wants to be serious, it has to start proving it to the base by positioning itself as a real player in P5.

I have a lot of faith in Narduzzi. I think he's gone through a bit of a learning curve and will continue to hit bumps in the road. Still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but at some point, the results have to be there.
 
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Sounds like we could lose Partridge. So that would mean we lost our top 3 recruiters. We have to get some high end, proven recruiters.
 
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Jpripper88 said:
Sounds like we could lose Partridge. So that would mean we lost our top 3 recruiters. We have to get some high end, proven recruiters.
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Where did you hear this? Not doubting you just hope it’s not true. He is the one assistant I would be most disappointed to see go. Our top FL recruiter and IMO a pretty good coach.
 
I agree pittzap. But if Bama really wants him over the other candidates they will put up big $ we can’t match.
 
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Alabama: Charlie Partridge (Pitt DL), Lance Thompson (South Carolina DL), Eric Henderson (asst DL with the Chargers) and Travis Jones (former Seahawks DL coach) are all in the mix for the defensive line job at Alabama reports Matt Zenitz of AL.com.

Guessing this is reason a delay in 10th hire.
 
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