20 minutes to game time and probably less than 10k here

[HailToPitt1985]

I didn't say anything about large highways or parking lots. But since you bring it up, do they have both of those things at UVA, UNC, VT, Clemson?

They own most of the hill, and in 12 years when the the HF lease runs out, the fieldhouse will 80 years old, Trees almost 70, the Cost Center 40 years old, and Peterson Sports Complex 20 years old. There's also the OC lot, Towerview Garage and all the fields behind them. Plenty of possibilities to reconfigure and do whatever you want if you have the money.

Money is the only impediment. Traffic,space, parking, are all excuses. There was a football stadium there already.

You're comparing apples and oranges. None of those campuses are in a medium size metropolitan area, so none of them requires the highways that Pittsburgh would. I also fail to see where if you tore down that garage, the fieldhouse, Trees Hall, the Cost Center and the baseball fields and used the OC lot, where would you have enough room for a 40,000 seat stadium with large parking lots for all of those cars and highways to get in and out easily. It's not there.

Please quit! This isn't going to happen, and probably never will. If there were space and those areas were available for something else for Pitt, it would be better served with academic buildings on those sites. The possibility of that happening is much more likely than a fairy tale football stadium.

 

[H2P 2003]

That's poppycock, there is room. People who think there is no room only see things for what they are, not what they can become.

Where?

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

What ultimately leaves some of us unsatisfied with the "realism" (probably an accurate term) that an on-campus stadium is highly unlikely is the fact a lot of people, myself included, aren't that impressed with Heinz Field.

It's too big for the vast majority of Pitt games, it's not attractive, it's shared with another team that overshadows us, the open design lets noise out too easily, and it lacks the charm of neighboring PNC Park. It doesn't lend itself to a very good home field advantage. It's not a "bad" stadium but I don't find it nearly as impressive as the Pete or PNC Park or even the Arena. It's our weakest major sports facility.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

You're comparing apples and oranges. None of those campuses are in a medium size metropolitan area, so none of them requires the highways that Pittsburgh would. I also fail to see where if you tore down that garage, the fieldhouse, Trees Hall, the Cost Center and the baseball fields and used the OC lot, where would you have enough room for a 40,000 seat stadium with large parking lots for all of those cars and highways to get in and out easily. It's not there.

Please quit! This isn't going to happen, and probably never will. If there were space and those areas were available for something else for Pitt, it would be better served with academic buildings on those sites. The possibility of that happening is much more likely than a fairy tale football stadium.

The fairy tale is that there is no room, that there are no roads, and that there is nowhere to park. A stadium fits on the Peterson Sports Complex footprint. And everyone forgets that there actually was a football stadium in Oakland and miraculously people parked and got there.

I didn't tell you to rip everything down and restart, although that could be an option. The point is that these facilities are aging and something will need to be done at some point. There are many different options.

Why do people need to "stop it" because they don't agree with you?

 

[H2P 2003]

The fairy tale is that there is no room, that there are no roads, and that there is nowhere to park. A stadium fits on the Peterson Sports Complex footprint. And everyone forgets that there actually was a football stadium in Oakland and miraculously people parked and got there.

I didn't tell you to rip everything down and restart, although that could be an option. The point is that these facilities are aging and something will need to be done at some point. There are many different options.

Why do people need to "stop it" because they don't agree with you?

So you’re suggesting rippin down the PSC?

And traffic in an out of Oakland for a 12k b-ball game is awful...I wouldn’t consider going to a football game In Oakland.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

The fairy tale is that there is no room, that there are no roads, and that there is nowhere to park. A stadium fits on the Peterson Sports Complex footprint. And everyone forgets that there actually was a football stadium in Oakland and miraculously people parked and got there.

I didn't tell you to rip everything down and restart, although that could be an option. The point is that these facilities are aging and something will need to be done at some point. There are many different options.

Why do people need to "stop it" because they don't agree with you?

You're entitled to your opinion, and that's fine. But it sounds like you weren't around during the time when Pitt Stadium existed and the parking and entry/exit from Oakland was a nightmare with 25,000 fans in the stands. I went to many, many games at old Pitt Stadium and it was a complete clusterf%$k in Oakland. It's just not realistic to think that magically, we can all of a sudden manufacture the roads, infrastructure and land needed for this endeavor.

Heinz Field sucks as a college football venue. But it's the best alternative we have and will have for many years to come. I wish it weren't, but it is.

 

[PITTLAW]

You're comparing apples and oranges. None of those campuses are in a medium size metropolitan area, so none of them requires the highways that Pittsburgh would. I also fail to see where if you tore down that garage, the fieldhouse, Trees Hall, the Cost Center and the baseball fields and used the OC lot, where would you have enough room for a 40,000 seat stadium with large parking lots for all of those cars and highways to get in and out easily. It's not there.

Please quit! This isn't going to happen, and probably never will. If there were space and those areas were available for something else for Pitt, it would be better served with academic buildings on those sites. The possibility of that happening is much more likely than a fairy tale football stadium.

You obviously have not been to many college football venues [even in some of those idyllic non-urban venues]. Parking is often a shuttle ride away, tailgating space next to the stadium is limited or non-existent, and traffic is an issue 6 or 7 days out of 365. Big deal. I honestly do not believe an on campus stadium is in the cards for Pitt, but it is because of the cost, not the logistics or space [and I was on record in 98/99 when the decision was being made]. Should it become a priority, and it very well may as the Heinz Field lease expires--that will be the time to talk. Hail to Pitt!

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

What ultimately leaves some of us unsatisfied with the "realism" (probably an accurate term) that an on-campus stadium is highly unlikely is the fact a lot of people, myself included, aren't that impressed with Heinz Field.

It's too big for the vast majority of Pitt games, it's not attractive, it's shared with another team that overshadows us, the open design lets noise out too easily, and it lacks the charm of neighboring PNC Park. It doesn't lend itself to a very good home field advantage. It's not a "bad" stadium but I don't find it nearly as impressive as the Pete or PNC Park or even the Arena. It's our weakest major sports facility.

What football stadiums are attractive? I don't have a problem with Heinz as a stadium. Sights lines are all good, even better if you chose to upgrade to club. On gameday, they make Heinz to feel very much Pitt's stadium, with signage, gift shop, etc. Players have their own lockers separate from the pro's. I don't get a sense that we are playing in the "Steeler's stadium". And parking, getting in/out of Heinz is not that bad.

But the minuses are starting to outnumber the pluses. The yellow seats magnify our small fan base, and we will never come close to filling it unless we start consistently challenging for a title. The busing of students is pretty much a disaster, with no other alternative available. I'd love our own stadium, but you have to be careful. 40K screams a MAC school. Would need to be at least 50K and we still may have trouble filling that.

But I'm still on record as saying the money is better spent pumping back into the program by hiring excellent coaches and having the money to fire terrible ones. Lobby the city to extend the T into Oakland. A lot we can do to make the current situation better without building a new stadium.

 

[McKee Place]

In the 90s the students didn't show up at Pitt Stadium for games. No bus needed, they still didn't show. Pitt then even put in shuttle bus service TO PITT STADIUM and they still didn't show. Because the team wasn't very good.

Meanwhile after Pitt (Calipari) got Pitt some great recruits and the hoops team was good, students gladly found their way, higher climb and colder weather, to FFH.

And later, to the Pete, when we had conference winning teams.

A lot of those same students find their way to the civic arena, and now Ppg Paints arena, for Penguins games, no shuttles and poor bus service in bad weather, even with student discounts still paying mor for one game ticket than their entire football season ticket.

If Pitt football had a great team the student section of HF would be packed like Sept 8 was. Even without shuttle service.

The winning makes all the difference

 

[PITTLAW]

In the 90s the students didn't show up at Pitt Stadium for games. No bus needed, they still didn't show. Pitt then even put in shuttle bus service TO PITT STADIUM and they still didn't show. Because the team wasn't very good.

Meanwhile after Pitt (Calipari) got Pitt some great recruits and the hoops team was good, students gladly found their way, higher climb and colder weather, to FFH.

And later, to the Pete, when we had conference winning teams.

A lot of those same students find their way to the civic arena, and now Ppg Paints arena, for Penguins games, no shuttles and poor bus service in bad weather, even with student discounts still paying mor for one game ticket than their entire football season ticket.

If Pitt football had a great team the student section of HF would be packed like Sept 8 was. Even without shuttle service.

The winning makes all the difference

Agree that winning makes a difference for attendance. Note that the Zoo was mostly empty last season. That said, requiring students to commute on school buses certainly does not enhance the student experience of attending a Pitt football game. Holding a "University" event off of the campus means that alumni, fans and donors rarely have any meaningful interaction with the real University. Ultimately, most seem to miss the point. Where the stadium is located has very little to do with filling it. You want the stadium in a place where its greatest impact will be on the students, program and University itself. Other than a few whackos here, nobody disputes where a University ought to play its games. Hail to Pitt!

 

[jtownknowitall]

So what color tarps should Pitt place on the unsold yellow seats at Heinz Field?

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

So what color tarps should Pitt place on the unsold yellow seats at Heinz Field?

No tarps. We have a robots economy in Pittsburgh. Replace our missing fans with machines dressed as "authentic" Pittsburghers.

 

[HailtoPitt]

The fairy tale is that there is no room, that there are no roads, and that there is nowhere to park. A stadium fits on the Peterson Sports Complex footprint. And everyone forgets that there actually was a football stadium in Oakland and miraculously people parked and got there.

I didn't tell you to rip everything down and restart, although that could be an option. The point is that these facilities are aging and something will need to be done at some point. There are many different options.

Why do people need to "stop it" because they don't agree with you?

Of course there is room. We know this. There has been and will continue to be. The problem is that Pitt hasn't made it a real priority to find the right location. They won't and that is fine. The program will continue to be mediocre at best. We aren't Miami and shouldn't expect to magically become good.

 

[H2P 2003]

Of course there is room. We know this. There has been and will continue to be. The problem is that Pitt hasn't made it a real priority to find the right location. They won't and that is fine. The program will continue to be mediocre at best. We aren't Miami and shouldn't expect to magically become good.

Where?

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

You're entitled to your opinion, and that's fine. But it sounds like you weren't around during the time when Pitt Stadium existed and the parking and entry/exit from Oakland was a nightmare with 25,000 fans in the stands. I went to many, many games at old Pitt Stadium and it was a complete clusterf%$k in Oakland. It's just not realistic to think that magically, we can all of a sudden manufacture the roads, infrastructure and land needed for this endeavor.

Heinz Field sucks as a college football venue. But it's the best alternative we have and will have for many years to come. I wish it weren't, but it is.

Pitt stadium was still there when I went to Pitt. After graduating I still went to games and was at the last game against ND. Think about the types of people who complains about traffic and parking. Never bothered me, it is what it is.

 

[PittMan 72]

You obviously have not been to many college football venues [even in some of those idyllic non-urban venues]. Parking is often a shuttle ride away, tailgating space next to the stadium is limited or non-existent, and traffic is an issue 6 or 7 days out of 365. Big deal. I honestly do not believe an on campus stadium is in the cards for Pitt, but it is because of the cost, not the logistics or space [and I was on record in 98/99 when the decision was being made]. Should it become a priority, and it very well may as the Heinz Field lease expires--that will be the time to talk. Hail to Pitt!

Yep. Parking at the on-campus stadiums I've been to as a visiting fan to see Pitt is generally NOT in close proximity to the stadium. Especially for visiting fans who of course aren't BIG donors to that particular school.

At the places we've gone we typically walk for a mile or 2 (or more) to get to the stadium. Some have shuttles, but we're not big on waiting for a long time to pile onto a jammed shuttle so we typically just hoof it. Good exercise and you get to see some of the campuses or other local flavor.

I really don't think some people realize how good the parking situation - as well as ingress and egress - is for Pitt games at Heinz Field. Paved lots. Not dirt and grass fields that can turn into mud holes if it's wet. I've also sat in some horrific traffic jams getting out at away games. VT and Clemson being among the worst. Fortunately a large group of us got together and chartered a bus at Clemson for a very reasonable price. It took us round trip from very near our hotel to the game and back. So we were gridlocked in comfort and could eat, drink and be merry celebrating the Pitt win while rode back to our rooms in style.

 

[cbpitt2]

How many people commute to Oakland on a weekday? I'm sure that number is out there somewhere.

How many of those parking spaces are available on a Saturday?

From: https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/trafficindex/city/pittsburgh
"Over half of all downtown commuters, and over 35% of Oakland commuters, arrive via bus or train." So that leaves greater than 60% of Oakland commuters driving to work each day.

Notre Dame stadium is on Notre Dame's campus, yet thousands are bused in from outlying areas to the game. No one bitches.

Pitt yinzers want to be able to drive to within walking distance of their stadium, park without waiting in line, then leave without having to deal with traffic. Like they're special. Deal with it. Spend some time before and after the game tailgaiting or going to eat and drink in an Oakland food establishment. That's what I did when the games were at Pitt Stadium.

Make a Pitt football game more than a football game. Make it an event.

B*tch, b*tch, b*tch. I swear even if there was nothing to b*tch about, Pitt fans would find something to b*tch about.

 

[anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u]

Look, I'd love an on-campus stadium. I'm sure most Pitt fans would love one. But IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT 100 YEARS, AT LEAST!! Playing at a crappy NFL venue is definitely not ideal. But that's what we have because it is not possible in any way to build an on-campus stadium. I don't know how this is not understood.

What

You're comparing apples and oranges. None of those campuses are in a medium size metropolitan area, so none of them requires the highways that Pittsburgh would. I also fail to see where if you tore down that garage, the fieldhouse, Trees Hall, the Cost Center and the baseball fields and used the OC lot, where would you have enough room for a 40,000 seat stadium with large parking lots for all of those cars and highways to get in and out easily. It's not there.

Please quit! This isn't going to happen, and probably never will. If there were space and those areas were available for something else for Pitt, it would be better served with academic buildings on those sites. The possibility of that happening is much more likely than a fairy tale football stadium.

A lot you know. It is being tossed around.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Yep. Parking at the on-campus stadiums I've been to as a visiting fan to see Pitt is generally NOT in close proximity to the stadium. Especially for visiting fans who of course aren't BIG donors to that particular school.

At the places we've gone we typically walk for a mile or 2 (or more) to get to the stadium. Some have shuttles, but we're not big on waiting for a long time to pile onto a jammed shuttle so we typically just hoof it. Good exercise and you get to see some of the campuses or other local flavor.

I really don't think some people realize how good the parking situation - as well as ingress and egress - is for Pitt games at Heinz Field. Paved lots. Not dirt and grass fields that can turn into mud holes if it's wet. I've also sat in some horrific traffic jams getting out at away games. VT and Clemson being among the worst. Fortunately a large group of us got together and chartered a bus at Clemson for a very reasonable price. It took us round trip from very near our hotel to the game and back. So we were gridlocked in comfort and could eat, drink and be merry celebrating the Pitt win while rode back to our rooms in style.

One of the worse was getting out of Navy's stadium, we parked at the Park & Ride and literally did not move for two hours on the shuttle after the game.

And Penn State is literally a cow pasture, the only place I tailgated where I had to watch where I stepped.

So I don't have a problem with Heinz other than it is too big for us and those horrid yellow seats make the situation worse. And shuttling the students is terrible, but as souf posted many left early in the days of Pitt stadium so it isn't a new phenomena.

 

[franklinman]

How many high school kids or college coaches have you interacted with over the past 10 years?

I can tell you flat out that coaches on the DW staff knew it wasn’t as high as fans thought it was and were able to recruit around it with things that matter like PT, NFL pipeline, Oakland experience, player to coach relationship etc. I can tell you that i’ve had that conversation with Junko and Gattusso.

You're correct ,the players DW brought in would have played on the parking lots, against anyone.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

You obviously have not been to many college football venues [even in some of those idyllic non-urban venues]. Parking is often a shuttle ride away, tailgating space next to the stadium is limited or non-existent, and traffic is an issue 6 or 7 days out of 365. Big deal. I honestly do not believe an on campus stadium is in the cards for Pitt, but it is because of the cost, not the logistics or space [and I was on record in 98/99 when the decision was being made]. Should it become a priority, and it very well may as the Heinz Field lease expires--that will be the time to talk. Hail to Pitt!

So long as we agree that on campus stadium
Means less near stadium tailgating atmosphere-
And it seems we do-
Particularly in an urban setting like Pitt.

Cool.

I really don’t care where we play.

Frankly- school spirit now is way better than when I was a student with an on campus stadium.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

One of the worse was getting out of Navy's stadium, we parked at the Park & Ride and literally did not move for two hours on the shuttle after the game.

And Penn State is literally a cow pasture, the only place I tailgated where I had to watch where I stepped.

So I don't have a problem with Heinz other than it is too big for us and those horrid yellow seats make the situation worse. And shuttling the students is terrible, but as souf posted many left early in the days of Pitt stadium so it isn't a new phenomena.

Or showed up at halftime

 

[pantherpantherpanther]

Here is the thing that most people do not seem to realize when it comes to the stadium issue. The stadium fixes one problem. Better student turnout at home games. However, that does not make a MAJOR difference in recruiting. Sure, it helps, but it is not going to be a major difference. The stadium is used 6 times a year. It is important to get people excited and hopefully make some more money. In the short term, though, the practice/training/strength/etc. facility is more important.
Take a look at the following:

1. Oklahoma:
2. Clemson:
3. Northwestern: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/4/10/17219292/northwestern-new-practice-facility
4. Penn State:
5. Kentucky:

So... These facilities are all creeping up on or exceeding $200 million. Pitt continues to be in/near the basement in the ACC in athletic donations. So, of the five schools that I listed above, we don't compete with OU for recruits, Clemson is a conference opponent, NU is definitely a competitor for recruits in Ohio, Michigan, PA 3 stars, Penn State is obviously our biggest in-state rival for recruits, and Kentucky is a bottom half SEC football program right now (they are improving). With all of those things true, how are we reasonably expecting Pitt, and Narduzzi specifically, to win recruiting battles with Penn State, Northwestern, etc. We can only sell the blue-collar Pittsburgh, Pitt football history so much. At the end of the day, high school athletes, and rightfully so, are looking out for themselves and their college experience.

I don't have answers to the problems. However, the constant Fire Narduzzi mantra is annoying. If you don't like him for scheme issues or off-the-field issues or you think his teams are ill-prepared then absolutely hold him responsible. But, Pitt fans need to stop being so reactionary to the result on the field. As of now, working at the Steelers facility is an average spot. That is why we are an average program.

 

[HailtoPitt]

It's a long term fix, which involves an on campus stadium to create a proper culture of students attending games (not bused in and out which sucks for them), becoming alums and attending more games.

 

[cbpitt2]

It's a long term fix, which involves an on campus stadium to create a proper culture of student's attending games (not bused in and out which sucks for them), becoming alums and attending more games.

And feeling greater attachment to their university and donating money to it.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

The training facilities are becoming some sort of Veblenian nightmare. These schools are running out of ways to throw absurd amounts of money at unpaid athletes.

 

[McKee Place]

It's a long term fix, which involves an on campus stadium to create a proper culture of student's attending games (not bused in and out which sucks for them), becoming alums and attending more games.

For possibly the trillionth time the stadium was a couple blocks away from dorms and apartments for what, 70 years? And the student attendance was not good, culture was poor, and post- grad donations were low ... all because the teams mostly were not good.

In the brief time we WERE good, boosters increased donations and attendance was solid ... but then the university chased the boosters away. Results were predictable... and students, like everyone else, found better things to do. Even though most could literally roll outta bed and make it up there in 15min.

Winning needs to be where the focus starts. If the utopian situation occurred that Pitt rose great football success on the field, carried it to conclusion (aka championships) and sustained it for at least more than 4 years or so (to encompass a full graduating class, ideally more) ... THAT'S what would get the cycle going you speak of.

Students wouldn't care less if they had needed to shuttle to the stadium. They'd just remember the great times and feel good to donate for them.

Plus a bonus ... once in the work force, ie owning automobiles, they'd appreciate the far easier commute and parking of the north shore vs trying to access Oakland that way, further increasing the chance of sustaining their ticket purchases and attendance past graduation.

And another possible bonus, if things got so good, and lasted a decade or so... pitt would have built enough positive feelings (and donations and willing sponsors) to actually CONSIDER a campus stadium. I am in the camp it isn't necessary, but at least it could be on the table after that.

Aren't you guys aware of Pitt's current standing among politicians of the state and city and county? Lower than Trump! We're despised! So just think of a stadium concept, start to finish, from just the architectural plans, proposed location, zoning and permits and hearings and approvals needed, to the actual acquisition and razing of buildings, possibly the need to relocate residents and businesses, to add needed access roads, sewage, lighting, security planning etc etc. Etc ...

Not impossible things at all IF you have civic popularity and cooperation, but we certainly DON'T, so the idea would be squashed like a grape right now.

Winning big, for many years, would turn that around. Civic favor and funding would follow. Politicians wouldn't like it... but if we'd become as popular as the Penguins or Steelers by then (which winning accomplishes), they'd have to kiss Pitt's tail. We could get our stadium AND the transportation structure (subway, elevated light rail, etc.) needed to bring the bulk of people in and out. Great for Pitt the other 6 days of the week too.

It would need to BEGIN with on field success, sustained success. Focus there.

 

[PITTLAW]

So long as we agree that on campus stadium
Means less near stadium tailgating atmosphere-
And it seems we do-
Particularly in an urban setting like Pitt.

Cool.

I really don’t care where we play.

Frankly- school spirit now is way better than when I was a student with an on campus stadium.

Things have changed quite a bit. Back in the day, Pitt fought tailgating in Oakland. Police would arrest you with an open container in Oakland. Yes, school spirit is much better, largely because again, things have changed. Pitt now promotes football and school spirit...which of course back in the day...it did not. Pitt should have had huge block parties...and promoted tailgating on the Cathedral lawn, etc. A total missed opportunity. Everyone understands being on campus for all things related to Pitt is the best situation. Until then...Heinz will be home... Hail to Pitt!

 

[HailtoPitt]

For possibly the trillionth time the stadium was a couple blocks away from dorms and apartments for what, 70 years? And the student attendance was not good, culture was poor, and post- grad donations were low ... all because the teams mostly were not good.

In the brief time we WERE good, boosters increased donations and attendance was solid ... but then the university chased the boosters away. Results were predictable... and students, like everyone else, found better things to do. Even though most could literally roll outta bed and make it up there in 15min.

Winning needs to be where the focus starts. If the utopian situation occurred that Pitt rose great football success on the field, carried it to conclusion (aka championships) and sustained it for at least more than 4 years or so (to encompass a full graduating class, ideally more) ... THAT'S what would get the cycle going you speak of.

Students wouldn't care less if they had needed to shuttle to the stadium. They'd just remember the great times and feel good to donate for them.

Plus a bonus ... once in the work force, ie owning automobiles, they'd appreciate the far easier commute and parking of the north shore vs trying to access Oakland that way, further increasing the chance of sustaining their ticket purchases and attendance past graduation.

And another possible bonus, if things got so good, and lasted a decade or so... pitt would have built enough positive feelings (and donations and willing sponsors) to actually CONSIDER a campus stadium. I am in the camp it isn't necessary, but at least it could be on the table after that.

Aren't you guys aware of Pitt's current standing among politicians of the state and city and county? Lower than Trump! We're despised! So just think of a stadium concept, start to finish, from just the architectural plans, proposed location, zoning and permits and hearings and approvals needed, to the actual acquisition and razing of buildings, possibly the need to relocate residents and businesses, to add needed access roads, sewage, lighting, security planning etc etc. Etc ...

Not impossible things at all IF you have civic popularity and cooperation, but we certainly DON'T, so the idea would be squashed like a grape right now.

Winning big, for many years, would turn that around. Civic favor and funding would follow. Politicians wouldn't like it... but if we'd become as popular as the Penguins or Steelers by then (which winning accomplishes), they'd have to kiss Pitt's tail. We could get our stadium AND the transportation structure (subway, elevated light rail, etc.) needed to bring the bulk of people in and out. Great for Pitt the other 6 days of the week too.

It would need to BEGIN with on field success, sustained success. Focus there.

Pitt isn't going to start winning big. We don't recruit well enough. And we won't be able to keep a coach who could. Times are different now than the 80s and 90s. Pitt isn't the same school. There are more students living on and near campus. More students from out of state. More students from higher wealth families, with more of an established culture of giving back. Pitt also puts in a heavier effort to build student pride and get them to games, but that only goes so far when they need bused to and from Heinz. If you take all of those new factors into play, then there would now be more students going to games on campus than at Pitt Stadium. Of course, if they win 2 games every year, then attendance would be decrease, as it would anywhere. But this gives Pitt to best shot of growing the program over a period of decades, getting it to the point where there are more fans who are willing to support the program. Support paying for coaching salaries. Support play scholarships. Support capital projects. Etc.

Yes, it would be an extremely difficult project now that Pitt Stadium was demolished and the space used up (Thanks Mark and Steve!). But, all the complaining about traffic parking is nonsense. Fans who want to go will go, just like many other schools that have issues with traffic (i.e. sitting in traffic for hours once the game is over). That's nothing new. We need the culture to be one where fans are willing to sit in traffic to go watch the game, not one where the traffic will determine whether they go or not.

Bottom line. Pitt isn't going to accomplish big success at Heinz Field. There are too many negatives working against us. They could see some short term success if the right coach is here before he bolts, but it would be temporary.

 

[PITTLAW]

Pitt isn't going to start winning big. We don't recruit well enough. And we won't be able to keep a coach who could. Times are different now than the 80s and 90s. Pitt isn't the same school. There are more students living on and near campus. More students from out of state. More students from higher wealth families, with more of an established culture of giving back. Pitt also puts in a heavier effort to build student pride and get them to games, but that only goes so far when they need bused to and from Heinz. If you take all of those new factors into play, then there would now be more students going to games on campus than at Pitt Stadium. Of course, if they win 2 games every year, then attendance would be decrease, as it would anywhere. But this gives Pitt to best shot of growing the program over a period of decades, getting it to the point where there are more fans who are willing to support the program. Support paying for coaching salaries. Support play scholarships. Support capital projects. Etc.

Yes, it would be an extremely difficult project now that Pitt Stadium was demolished and the space used up (Thanks Mark and Steve!). But, all the complaining about traffic parking is nonsense. Fans who want to go will go, just like many other schools that have issues with traffic (i.e. sitting in traffic for hours once the game is over). That's nothing new. We need the culture to be one where fans are willing to sit in traffic to go watch the game, not one where the traffic will determine whether they go or not.

Bottom line. Pitt isn't going to accomplish big success at Heinz Field. There are too many negatives working against us. They could see some short term success if the right coach is here before he bolts, but it would be temporary.

Well said. Sadly, too many were silent or followed like sheep when it was time to be counted. Hail to Pitt!

 

[Pitt79]

No tarps. We have a robots economy in Pittsburgh. Replace our missing fans with machines dressed as "authentic" Pittsburghers.

Why not cardboard fans like Studio Wrestling used to have?

 

[jtownknowitall]

Students today are graduating with considerably more debt than those 20-50 years ago. Don't expect much growth in the donation department anytime soon.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

Students today are graduating with considerably more debt than those 20-50 years ago. Don't expect much growth in the donation department anytime soon.

True, but college graduates are living longer and (for better or worse -- not looking to debate it) are paying less in taxes. Higher paying STEM jobs are an increasing share of graduates as well. I bet there will be growth, the question is if it can keep out with the Jonses.

 

[McKee Place]

Pitt isn't going to start winning big. We don't recruit well enough. And we won't be able to keep a coach who could. Times are different now than the 80s and 90s. Pitt isn't the same school. There are more students living on and near campus. More students from out of state. More students from higher wealth families, with more of an established culture of giving back. Pitt also puts in a heavier effort to build student pride and get them to games, but that only goes so far when they need bused to and from Heinz. If you take all of those new factors into play, then there would now be more students going to games on campus than at Pitt Stadium. Of course, if they win 2 games every year, then attendance would be decrease, as it would anywhere. But this gives Pitt to best shot of growing the program over a period of decades, getting it to the point where there are more fans who are willing to support the program. Support paying for coaching salaries. Support play scholarships. Support capital projects. Etc.

Yes, it would be an extremely difficult project now that Pitt Stadium was demolished and the space used up (Thanks Mark and Steve!). But, all the complaining about traffic parking is nonsense. Fans who want to go will go, just like many other schools that have issues with traffic (i.e. sitting in traffic for hours once the game is over). That's nothing new. We need the culture to be one where fans are willing to sit in traffic to go watch the game, not one where the traffic will determine whether they go or not.

Bottom line. Pitt isn't going to accomplish big success at Heinz Field. There are too many negatives working against us. They could see some short term success if the right coach is here before he bolts, but it would be temporary.

We agree on traffic not holding people back if they want to go. I don't believe I've ever made that argument. I fully believe the city would use potential traffic problems as a reason to not cooperate (as well as many other obstacles). But again, only because it's politically acceptable presently to obstruct Pitt. Because Pitt is unpopular. Sustained championship level success in football ... perhaps in basketball too, but not as much... would change that. It would need to be at a point that the politicians would be as afraid to tell Pitt no, as they are to tell the Steelers no.