Apple TV for Pac 12?

[Sean Miller Fan]

Apple emerges as potential landing spot for Pac-12 football

Apple TV+ is emerging as a potential landing spot for the Pac-12 college football rights, The Post has learned.

nypost.com

The B12 Propoganda machine will be out in full force over this but if this happens, I think it would be similar to the deal they did with MLS, which isnt bad. Apple is paying $250 million/year for streaming rights to all games. On top of that, MLS bid out the TV rights to something like 2 "national games" per week. These games will be shown on Fox/FS1 and Apple TV. Seems like between Apple and ESPN (who I think buys a TV package), they'll be right around the $32 million per year per team that the Big 12 is getting.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I’d watch Pac-12 football on Apple TV Plus. We love our Apple ecosystem and they do a GREAT job producing the MLB games (announcing is another thing).

 

[pittdan77]

Doesn't really mean anything if they can't create some kind of GOR arrangement but it's always entertaining to see all of the Big12 sourced rumors to be wrong, again.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Apple emerges as potential landing spot for Pac-12 football

Apple TV+ is emerging as a potential landing spot for the Pac-12 college football rights, The Post has learned.

nypost.com

The B12 Propoganda machine will be out in full force over this but if this happens, I think it would be similar to the deal they did with MLS, which isnt bad. Apple is paying $250 million/year for streaming rights to all games. On top of that, MLS bid out the TV rights to something like 2 "national games" per week. These games will be shown on Fox/FS1 and Apple TV. Seems like between Apple and ESPN (who I think buys a TV package), they'll be right around the $32 million per year per team that the Big 12 is getting.

A full time deal on Apple would be a complete and utter disaster for the PAC12. Which is why they are doing everything they can to avoid that.

At this point they will be very lucky if they get as much as the Big 12 got. The Big 12 was smart in doing their deal early and getting it done first, because now the PAC12 has no real leverage with ESPN. And Fox has no interest. And CBS has no interest. And NBC has no interest.

And the ironic thing is that the games that ESPN is most interested in are the night games, and everyone in the PAC12 hates the night games. Which doesn't make any sense to me, but it is absolutely true.

 

[cashisking884]

A full time deal on Apple would be a complete and utter disaster for the PAC12. Which is why they are doing everything they can to avoid that.

At this point they will be very lucky if they get as much as the Big 12 got. The Big 12 was smart in doing their deal early and getting it done first, because now the PAC12 has no real leverage with ESPN. And Fox has no interest. And CBS has no interest. And NBC has no interest.

And the ironic thing is that the games that ESPN is most interested in are the night games, and everyone in the PAC12 hates the night games. Which doesn't make any sense to me, but it is absolutely true.

Yeah, nobody actually cares about the PAC 12 teams.

The networks just want the time slots.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

A full time deal on Apple would be a complete and utter disaster for the PAC12. Which is why they are doing everything they can to avoid that.

At this point they will be very lucky if they get as much as the Big 12 got. The Big 12 was smart in doing their deal early and getting it done first, because now the PAC12 has no real leverage with ESPN. And Fox has no interest. And CBS has no interest. And NBC has no interest.

And the ironic thing is that the games that ESPN is most interested in are the night games, and everyone in the PAC12 hates the night games. Which doesn't make any sense to me, but it is absolutely true.

Yea I don't understand why they don't like night games. They can all go surfing, skateboarding, and hiking during the beautiful day and be home in plenty of time to head on over to the game.

And it wouldn't be a full-time deal on Apple. I'd guess it would be very similar to the MLS Deal. 100% of games are on Apple but 1-2 games per week also televised on ESPN. Doesn't it just come down to money? Say they get $30 million more per year per team, does it really matter that Utah would be on ESPN and Apple while BYU is on ESPN/FS1 and ESPN+ (subscription just like Apple).

 

[pafootballguy]

The Pac-12 schools really seem to want to stay together but this deal would kill their exposure and have teams looking for a way out.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Yea I don't understand why they don't like night games. They can all go surfing, skateboarding, and hiking during the beautiful day and be home in plenty of time to head on over to the game.

And it wouldn't be a full-time deal on Apple. I'd guess it would be very similar to the MLS Deal. 100% of games are on Apple but 1-2 games per week also televised on ESPN. Doesn't it just come down to money? Say they get $30 million more per year per team, does it really matter that Utah would be on ESPN and Apple while BYU is on ESPN/FS1 and ESPN+ (subscription just like Apple).

Most of the PAC12 schools are in places with a lot more to do at night as well as the day. Maybe even more for many people. A lot of people who might like the weather in the west don’t necessarily do (crazy, stupid, dangerous) activities like surfing, skateboarding and hiking. Better to go to college football games during those gorgeous fall afternoons. More people, in fact a lot more, especially the ‘beautiful people’ in SoCal, the highly compensated tech workers in the northern cities, etc are for more likely go out to restaurants, clubs etc. in the evenings. Those folks who like college football would be far more likely to miss the games if they were exclusively at night. Because, they have better entertainment alternatives in the evenings. (Ok, Charles Barkley would dispute that about Salt Lake City).

Actually, the eastern schools especially the giant rural football factory schools, should be the ones that have games exclusively at night, those sh1thole sadass towns have nothing special to do at night. A klan rally, I mean prime time football game, would be a far better destination.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The Pac-12 schools really seem to want to stay together but this deal would kill their exposure and have teams looking for a way out.

Every Pac 12 team (and any team in any conference) would leave tomorrow for the SEC/Big Ten. So this deal has no effect on that. And if the Pac 12 can get similar money to the Big 12, what difference does it make that their games are on Apple TV instead of ESPN+. They are both paid streaming services.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Most of the PAC12 schools are in places with a lot more to do at night as well as the day. Maybe even more for many people. A lot of people who might like the weather in the west don’t necessarily do (crazy, stupid, dangerous) activities like surfing, skateboarding and hiking. Better to go to college football games during those gorgeous fall afternoons. More people, in fact a lot more, especially the ‘beautiful people’ in SoCal, the highly compensated tech workers in the northern cities, etc are for more likely go out to restaurants, clubs etc. in the evenings. Those folks who like college football would be far more likely to miss the games if they were exclusively at night. Because, they have better entertainment alternatives in the evenings. (Ok, Charles Barkley would dispute that about Salt Lake City).

Actually, the eastern schools especially the giant rural football factory schools, should be the ones that have games exclusively at night, those sh1thole sadass towns have nothing special to do at night. A klan rally, I mean prime time football game, would be a far better destination.

For what I would consider to be the typical West Coast college football fan, I would think they have kids' youth sports in mornings and afternoons and enjoying family time in some outdoor activity. I dont think the socialights are going to Oregon/Stanford.

 

[pittdan77]

I will say that all of the rumors and counter rumors are kind of hilarious. One of my favorites are the ones where the Big12 is going to give higher revenue shares and the ability to opt out of the GOR's for certain schools in the Pac12.

 

[pafootballguy]

Every Pac 12 team (and any team in any conference) would leave tomorrow for the SEC/Big Ten. So this deal has no effect on that. And if the Pac 12 can get similar money to the Big 12, what difference does it make that their games are on Apple TV instead of ESPN+. They are both paid streaming services.

You are acting like ESPN is the Big 12s only tv partner, between ESPN and Fox the Big 12 will have far more exposure.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You are acting like ESPN is the Big 12s only tv partner, between ESPN and Fox the Big 12 will have far more exposure.

It may have more exposure, we dont know yet. If this ends up like I think it will, it'll be

Big 12: 4 games per Saturday on ESPN/Fox
Pac 12: 2 games per Saturday on ESPN

Big 12: the rest of the games streaming on ESPN+

Pac 12: the rest of the games streaming on Apple TV

Money will be close. Not a huge difference in exposure.

 

[cease10]

And the ironic thing is that the games that ESPN is most interested in are the night games, and everyone in the PAC12 hates the night games. Which doesn't make any sense to me, but it is absolutely true.

The majority of the country lives on the east coast and night games are bad for the Pac 12 because the majority of the east coast is not awake to watch these games. That's limited viewership. The conference gets no exposure if only the Pacific and Mountain time zones are awake for their games.

I would love to watch Pac 12 games but I can't stay up after midnight just to watch.

 

[cashisking884]

The majority of the country lives on the east coast and night games are bad for the Pac 12 because the majority of the east coast is not awake to watch these games. That's limited viewership. The conference gets no exposure if only the Pacific and Mountain time zones are awake for their games.

I would love to watch Pac 12 games but I can't stay up after midnight just to watch.

But that’s their only value.

They occupy time slots after the teams that people really want to watch, are done playing.

Nobody is tuning into Stanford-Cal at 3:30 over Iowa-Wisconsin or Alabama-Miss St.

It’s what you put on after the ABC and ESPN prime time games are over.

 

[cease10]

But that’s their only value.

They occupy time slots after the teams that people really want to watch, are done playing.

Nobody is tuning into Stanford-Cal at 3:30 over Iowa-Wisconsin or Alabama-Miss St.

It’s what you put on after the ABC and ESPN prime time games are over.

In this day and age of social media, if a game is exciting and trending on social media, then people will tune in.

And I would watch ANYTHING over Iowa - Wisconsin for sure!

Washington and Oregon have always been intriguing programs. Cal and Stanford have been duds lately but they are traditional programs. People will be tuning in to see what Deion does in Colorado.

Apple Cup and Civil Wars are good rivalry games. The Arizonas rivalry may be intriguing also.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

But that’s their only value.

They occupy time slots after the teams that people really want to watch, are done playing.

Nobody is tuning into Stanford-Cal at 3:30 over Iowa-Wisconsin or Alabama-Miss St.

It’s what you put on after the ABC and ESPN prime time games are over.

Honestly, P12 After Dark is the most non-ACC football I watch. I watch close to 0 non-ACC games because I'm either at a Pitt game or doing the youth sports thing or cutting grass on Saturdays. At 10PM, I'm home and there's nothing else on.

 

[cashisking884]

At 10PM, I'm home and there's nothing else on.

Yep. And that’s their value. The brands aren’t. People just don’t care. Hell, the students that attended those schools don’t care.

It’s the content filler. Sun up to sun down college football requires “sun down” programming. And that’s where the PAC 12 comes in.

Unfortunately for the PAC 12 and money, it’s become basically those radio talk shows that they put a camera in the studio just to have something to fill the 8 am ESPN channel time slots. The actual brand is less important than, “you’re up and running at 8 am, so we will put you on.” Which means there’s only so much you’re going to get paid for that.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It may have more exposure, we dont know yet. If this ends up like I think it will, it'll be

Big 12: 4 games per Saturday on ESPN/Fox
Pac 12: 2 games per Saturday on ESPN

Big 12: the rest of the games streaming on ESPN+

Pac 12: the rest of the games streaming on Apple TV

Money will be close. Not a huge difference in exposure.

That's the problem, they aren't going to have more exposure. Because of the lack of interested bidders ESPN is essentially dictating terms. If you want a deal with us you will take what we give you, both in terms of time slots and money. And what they want to give is a lot less than what the PAC12 wants to accept. As is obviously so, because if it wasn't the deal would have been done months ago.

And the difference between ESPN and ABC in terms of exposure versus Apple TV is vast. If people are watching an SEC game ESPN on Saturday night and there is a PAC12 game on ESPN2 or ABC people will just flip over and check it out in the commercial breaks. And if it's a good game they might stick around. But most people do not routinely switch back and forth between their cable/satellite/streaming service over to another streaming service and back again, because it's not all that convenient. And Americans love convenient.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That's the problem, they aren't going to have more exposure. Because of the lack of interested bidders ESPN is essentially dictating terms. If you want a deal with us you will take what we give you, both in terms of time slots and money. And what they want to give is a lot less than what the PAC12 wants to accept. As is obviously so, because if it wasn't the deal would have been done months ago.

And the difference between ESPN and ABC in terms of exposure versus Apple TV is vast. If people are watching an SEC game ESPN on Saturday night and there is a PAC12 game on ESPN2 or ABC people will just flip over and check it out in the commercial breaks. And if it's a good game they might stick around. But most people do not routinely switch back and forth between their cable/satellite/streaming service over to another streaming service and back again, because it's not all that convenient. And Americans love convenient.

The Pac 12 is going to be on ESPN. We can debate how much they are going to get but they're for sure going to be on ESPN. ESPN has 3 channels plus ACCN and SECN. They only have the ACC, SEC, and half the B12. And they have gotten out of the soccer business. What else are they going to show on fall Saturdays? Wall to wall MLB on ESPN2? The question is how much does ESPN pay and how many games they'll air and how many will be solely on Apple TV?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The Pac 12 is going to be on ESPN. We can debate how much they are going to get but they're for sure going to be on ESPN. ESPN has 3 channels plus ACCN and SECN. They only have the ACC, SEC, and half the B12. And they have gotten out of the soccer business. What else are they going to show on fall Saturdays? Wall to wall MLB on ESPN2? The question is how much does ESPN pay and how many games they'll air and how many will be solely on Apple TV?

ESPN has a lot more than just the ACC, the SEC and half of the B12. For instance just last fall they signed a deal to bring Conference USA back into the fold. And of course they still have the MAC. And the AAC. And the Sun Belt. They have plenty of games to pick from with or without the PAC12.

The PAC12 will be on ESPN if the PAC12 agrees to take a lot less money and play in the time slots that ESPN wants to give them. And if they agree to that then they run the risk of schools bailing out for the B12.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

ESPN has a lot more than just the ACC, the SEC and half of the B12. For instance just last fall they signed a deal to bring Conference USA back into the fold. And of course they still have the MAC. And the AAC. And the Sun Belt. They have plenty of games to pick from with or without the PAC12.

The PAC12 will be on ESPN if the PAC12 agrees to take a lot less money and play in the time slots that ESPN wants to give them. And if they agree to that then they run the risk of schools bailing out for the B12.

You didn't say CUSA, did you? The Sun Belt? The new, downgraded American Athletic Conference? Oregon/Arizona is WAY more valuable than the CUSA Game of the Week between New Mexico State and Jacksonville State or the AAC Game of the Week between Memphis and North Texas. Come on, Joe. You are better than this. Also, dont forget that ESPNU and ESPN+ exists for a reason. Those are ESPNU/+ games.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You didn't say CUSA, did you? The Sun Belt? The new, downgraded American Athletic Conference? Oregon/Arizona is WAY more valuable than the CUSA Game of the Week between New Mexico State and Jacksonville State or the AAC Game of the Week between Memphis and North Texas. Come on, Joe. You are better than this. Also, dont forget that ESPNU and ESPN+ exists for a reason. Those are ESPNU/+ games.

Sure, Oregon and Arizona are worth more. How about Oregon State and San Diego State? Or Washington State?

If those PAC12 games are worth double the Sun Belt the PAC12 doesn't get close to the Big 12. If they get three times as much they still aren't close to the Big 12. And keep in mind, if ESPN is only taking one or two games a week then there just isn't enough content to make it worth that much.

You are right about one thing though. I am obviously way better at this than you. The PAC12 is doing everything they can to avert a disaster, and you think that everything is just fine. Which, I suppose, is why it's taking so long for them to get this deal done. They just can't decide who they should take all the money from out of the half dozen entities that are having a bidding war over them.

And only you know about it.

 

[cashisking884]

Reports are the PAC 12 is talking to something called ION TV? I’ve never heard of it.

At the point where you’re talking to Apple and ION, if true, is the point where you just turn off the lights.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Reports are the PAC 12 is talking to something called ION TV? I’ve never heard of it.

At the point where you’re talking to Apple and ION, if true, is the point where you just turn off the lights.

ION is both a stand alone channel, or to be precise, a couple different channels, and they also own channels in numerous markets that show the same stuff that their main cable/satellite/streaming channel shows. In Pittsburgh, channel 16 is an ION channel. I have FUBO for streaming and they have three ION branded channels. They mostly show reruns of old crime shows. Stuff like CSI, Law and Order SVU and Bones.

If the PAC12 is really negotiating with them this is going to be an even bigger disaster for them than I thought.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

ION is both a stand alone channel, or to be precise, a couple different channels, and they also own channels in numerous markets that show the same stuff that their main cable/satellite/streaming channel shows. In Pittsburgh, channel 16 is an ION channel. I have FUBO for streaming and they have three ION branded channels. They mostly show reruns of old crime shows. Stuff like CSI, Law and Order SVU and Bones.

If the PAC12 is really negotiating with them this is going to be an even bigger disaster for them than I thought.

Scripps Howard owns Ion. They are starting Scripps Sports Network. Maybe to fill the void NBCSN left???? Dont know if they'll get the Pac 12 but perception wise I would agree that would be terrible. Apple TV would be fine as long as they get enough games on ESPN

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Scripps Howard owns Ion. They are starting Scripps Sports Network.

Are they really? I hadn't heard that. It seems like a really dumb idea.

 

[Jeffburgh]

The majority of the country lives on the east coast and night games are bad for the Pac 12 because the majority of the east coast is not awake to watch these games. That's limited viewership. The conference gets no exposure if only the Pacific and Mountain time zones are awake for their games.

I would love to watch Pac 12 games but I can't stay up after midnight just to watch.

I mean ... not sure how this minor detail was overlooked in the discussion.

 

[cashisking884]

Baylor AD has stated that if the PAC doesn’t have a deal soon, Big 12 is ready to pounce.

I’m sure they want Oregon and Washington, but those schools would probably hold out for something better if they can.

Big 12 should take the Arizona schools and Utah to pair with BYU, right away.

 

[pittdan77]

Baylor AD has stated that if the PAC doesn’t have a deal soon, Big 12 is ready to pounce.

I’m sure they want Oregon and Washington, but those schools would probably hold out for something better if they can.

Big 12 should take the Arizona schools and Utah to pair with BYU, right away.

If all of these TV rumors are true, why would any of these schools be worth adding? Does it really make sense to add schools or instead, go back to the networks and try to sell yourself into the slots the Pac12 vacated and increase your share?

 

[pittdan77]

If the PAC12 is really negotiating with them this is going to be an even bigger disaster for them than I thought.

It kind of makes the whole argument that the ACC TV deal sucks sound kind of dumb in that light.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Baylor AD has stated that if the PAC doesn’t have a deal soon, Big 12 is ready to pounce.

I’m sure they want Oregon and Washington, but those schools would probably hold out for something better if they can.

Big 12 should take the Arizona schools and Utah to pair with BYU, right away.

The Big 12 would take ANYBODY! I mean they just added Cincy and UCF. Of course they'd take Pac 12 teams regardless of any TV situation. The issue is, why would Pac 12 schools want to make a lateral move which increases travel times for similar money? The Big 12 is not a P2 league. Everyone is hoping for a P2 invite. If you are Arizona and are going to make $30 million in the Pac 12 on Apple TV, it makes no sense to make the same $30 million to play on ESPN+ while flying your volleyball team to Orlando and Morgantown.

 

[pafootballguy]

The Big 12 would take ANYBODY! I mean they just added Cincy and UCF. Of course they'd take Pac 12 teams regardless of any TV situation. The issue is, why would Pac 12 schools want to make a lateral move which increases travel times for similar money? The Big 12 is not a P2 league. Everyone is hoping for a P2 invite. If you are Arizona and are going to make $30 million in the Pac 12 on Apple TV, it makes no sense to make the same $30 million to play on ESPN+ while flying your volleyball team to Orlando and Morgantown.

You act like every game in the Big 12 is on ESPN+ which is not true, the 8 Big 12 schools minus UT and OU only played 16 games on ESPN+ in all of 2022.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You act like every game in the Big 12 is on ESPN+ which is not true, the 8 Big 12 schools minus UT and OU only played 16 games on ESPN+ in all of 2022.

2 things:

1. There will be a new contract. Many more ESPN+ games. This is the way ESPN is going.

2. They lost 2 massive national brands and backfilled with city teams who are probably not the #1 team in their own city plus BYU. Texas vs KSt gets ESPN. Houston vs KSt gets ESPN+

You will probably see 2 B12 games on ESPN/2/ABC and 2 on Fox/FS1 each week. And 2 Pac 12 on ESPN/ABC. The remainder will be PPV stream-only for both leagues

 

[pafootballguy]

2 things:

1. There will be a new contract. Many more ESPN+ games. This is the way ESPN is going.

2. They lost 2 massive national brands and backfilled with city teams who are probably not the #1 team in their own city plus BYU. Texas vs KSt gets ESPN. Houston vs KSt gets ESPN+

You will probably see 2 B12 games on ESPN/2/ABC and 2 on Fox/FS1 each week. And 2 Pac 12 on ESPN/ABC. The remainder will be PPV stream-only for both leagues

1) You have no idea how idea what how many games are going to be on ESPN+

2) If you are correct that is still a huge difference between all streaming and what the Big 12 will get.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Amazon involved now and wants a Friday night game. Scripps Howard also wants in. ESPN wants Saturday late night. Wouldn't be surprised to see a multi-network deal similar in structure to B10/Fox/CBS/NBC though obviously way less money.

Maybe:

Friday Amazon
Saturday afternoon Scripps
Saturday late afternoon Apple TV
Saturday night ESPN

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Amazon involved now and wants a Friday night game. Scripps Howard also wants in. ESPN wants Saturday late night. Wouldn't be surprised to see a multi-network deal similar in structure to B10/Fox/CBS/NBC though obviously way less money.

Maybe:

Friday Amazon
Saturday afternoon Scripps
Saturday late afternoon Apple TV
Saturday night ESPN

Which would, of course, be a disaster for the PAC12.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Which would, of course, be a disaster for the PAC12.

The money is all that matters. If they get close to $30 million per year per team and are on Amazon and ESPN, its good enough until a P2 comes calling. No reason to jump to B12 because you like their PPV streaming service better than Amazon or Apple

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The money is all that matters. If they get close to $30 million per year per team and are on Amazon and ESPN, its good enough until a P2 comes calling. No reason to jump to B12 because you like their PPV streaming service better than Amazon or Apple

They aren't going to get anything close to $30 million on a deal like that. They wouldn't get ESPN to pay them $30M total for just one game a week, let alone per team. Scripts isn't going to pay any sort of premium to put on games that no one else wants. The story with the Friday night Amazon game was already out there that Amazon was interested because they could promote it on their Thursday night NFL games, but they weren't going to offer much money for it.

That package doesn't even come close to $30 million.

The funny thing though is after listening to all the PAC12 people bitch for years about playing on Saturday nights that now they think that part of what is going to save them is to play on Friday nights.

 

[cashisking884]

Amazon involved now and wants a Friday night game. Scripps Howard also wants in. ESPN wants Saturday late night. Wouldn't be surprised to see a multi-network deal similar in structure to B10/Fox/CBS/NBC though obviously way less money.

Maybe:

Friday Amazon
Saturday afternoon Scripps
Saturday late afternoon Apple TV
Saturday night ESPN

Is there any bleed over between subscriptions? Or would you actually need 4 different packages to watch your team?