Are Coaches for Top Ten Programs Great Coaches or Simply Great Recruiters

[goat123]

I'm watching the Kentucky Florida game.

After watching all the talent on the UK team is Calipari a coaching genius, a really good coach or a recruiting genius.

The players seem to coach themselves to a large extent especially on the offensive end of the court.

All Top Ten team are packed with talent!

As long as the coach keeps the talent rolling in they will look like coaching guru's but I think they're really great recruiters!

Go Pitt!3/13 2:42 PM | IP: Logged
This post was edited on 3/13 3:00 PM by goat123

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Calipari is an EXCEPTIONAL recruiter AND a VERY GOOD coach.

He gets those thorougbreds to sell out and play HARD defense every game.

That's good coaching, no doubt about it.

On the offensive end...I agree with you..they mostly play one on one.

 

[UPitt '89]

Originally posted by SoufOaklin4Life:
Calipari is an EXCEPTIONAL recruiter AND a VERY GOOD coach.

He gets those thorougbreds to sell out and play HARD defense every game.

That's good coaching, no doubt about it.

On the offensive end...I agree with you..they mostly play one on one.

I would agree that Calipari gets his guys to play great defense, which is hard to accomplish with top players.

In contrast, a guy like Roy Williams seems to have great difficulty many years getting his guys to play the defense they are capable of.

 

[NTOP]

Calipari is underrated as a coach. UK recruits on its own.

But Cal gets them playing well together...their help defense is great. Donovan's pretty darn good, too.
Both are great recruiters. Lots of guys get talent (Gottfried, Hamilton, etc.) but do little with it. Maybe Mark Few?? Others get more from less.....Dixon is one of those.
Keeping some semblance of order & discipline is probably Calipari's hardest task. He openly tells kids he'll get them ready for the NBA. And he delivers.

 

[goat123]

Re: Calipari is underrated as a coach. UK recruits on its own.


NTOP posted on 3/13/2015...


But Cal gets them playing well together...their help defense is great. Donovan's pretty darn good, too.
Both are great recruiters. Lots of guys get talent (Gottfried, Hamilton, etc.) but do little with it. Maybe Mark Few?? Others get more from less.....Dixon is one of those.
Keeping some semblance of order & discipline is probably Calipari's hardest task. He openly tells kids he'll get them ready for the NBA. And he delivers.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

A lot of coaches from non Top Ten programs don't get as much ink or recognition but they may be great coaches because they do have to get more from less and yes Dixon is in that category.

It shows the importance of recruiting. You may be an average coach but with large pool of talent you go down a coaching Guru!


Go Pitt!



This post was edited on 3/13 3:06 PM by goat123

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

And using a recent example...

Mark Gottfried seems to be quite a good recruiter but the on court product never seems to live up (and I'd throw JT3 at GTown in this category too). And our own Jamie Dixon (whole body of work) isnt the best recruiter but gets a lot out of the kids he does get.

Cal is no doubt a good coach but one weapon he has is a lot of depth which obviously is recruiting related. If a kid isnt doing what he's supposed to do its easy to bench someone. But at Pitt - like this season - let's say Artis. He most times appeared to be disinterested in D but there's no way he'll get benched.

 

[NTOP]

Dixon does need to recruit better. He had plenty of luck with

his first teams, also with the 2007-2009 team. And he brought in high-profile centers in Taylor, Adams & Birch. Only Adams proved worthy of the hype.
If he can keep Heron to go with Wilson, and finds some post defense, we'll be very good in 2016-17. Who knows what will happen?

 

[neench]

In college sports, I think a coach that is a good recruiter is better than one who gets average players and trys to coach them up. Take all of Ohio State football players and send them to Toledo and take all of Toledo FB players and send them to OSU.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Re:Ranking Coaches, Recruiting & Programs, Two Different Sports!

Two Different Sports Two Different Standards:

Basketball:
The one and done rule no longer has the same requirements for Great Coaches.
Some say, it is actually tougher to recruit Top Five Star Basketball Players and form them into a NCS Team in one year versus recruiting players and forming a Team over multiple years. In the case of one and done Caparli fills that bill right now. I just looked a few programs that only have 4 & 5 Star recruits.

FIRST TIER COACHES & RECRUITS:
There are just a few in Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke, Florida, Louisville, and Arizona! Unfortunately, two of those Programs are run by Pitt Alumni!

SECOND TIER COACHES & PROGRAMS:
There are some Programs that have more 4 and 5 Star Recruits with 1 to 3 Three Star Recruits in UCLA, Cuse, UConn, Maryland, Michigan State, Indiana, Illinois, Notre Dame, Ohio State, and UCLA.

THIRD TIER GOOD COACHES:
There are then the Programs that may not have as many 4 & 5 Star recruits as others above, but have Coaches that win almost every year enough to make the NCAA Tourney and just work their players into becoming very good teams. These are Arkansas, Butler, Baylor, Gonzaga, Cincy, GT, Dayton, ISU, Iowa, LSU, Missouri, Oregon, Providence, Purdue, Temple, Vandy, VCU, Villanova, Utah, Xaiver, Wisconsin, and WVU .

FOURTH TIER INS AND OUTERS:
There are a group of Programs that go up and down over the years in and near the Top 25, but changes happen based on the competition they are playing against and there coaches have made a few slip ups that can make them good most years but seldom great and sometimes just ordinary. Most fall into this area and I put Pitt there right now. Pitt and Jamie hada nice Decade run and where close to being in the Third Tier but has since fallen back to here.

FIFTH TIER MEDIOCRES:
Most of the remainder Programs out of the 300+ fall into this category getting lucky in some years but mostly average.

SIXT TIER BOTTOM FEEDERS:
Finally, there are Programs that are endless bottom feeders. No matter how hard they try to recruit and find a good coach they usually come up empty in wins and those coaches are fired or leave sooner rather than later. They are in Penn State, TCU, USC

COLLEGE FOOTBALL:

Top Coach & Recruiter & Winner Of Championships:
I see only one coach being a great coach that can recruit and coach his players a into 10+ win seasons almost every year, and when having a down year still wins 9 games and that is Urban Meters.

1. Top Tier Programs Good Coaching, Recruiting & Resources::
There are a few more that have excellent programs because of contributors, alumni, attendance and summer camps that makes it hard not to win 9 to 10 games. Auburn, Bama, LSU, Georgia, FSU, Oregon, Texas, USC, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Notre Dame.

2. Second Tier Programs Trying To Comeback To Top Tier::
As well as a few that are rebuilding to go back to winning 9 to 10+games in Florida, Michigan, ULou, OU, UTenn, Miami, and Penn State, and Virginia Tech.

3. Third Tier Mediocre Programs:
Everyone else, is just adjusting to the new found wealth of Conference TV Money and most belong in this Mediocre Programs. Pitt has been here since 2000.

4. Fourth Tier Improved Bottom Feeders :
Even the previous Bottom Feeders are improving in Duke, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Minnesota, Baylor, Temple, Missy State, Rutgers, Maryland, and some like Kansas, Vanderbilt, and Wake Forest are still struggling.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Re:Ranking Coaches, Recruiting & Programs, Two Different Sports!

Are you ranking schools or coaches? Either way, how are most of the teams in tier three better than Pitt. Pitt is on par or better than most of them. this post was long, but appears not to be well thought out.

 

[noelr]

pitt is third tier at worst; many of the schools you site in tier three are flash in the pans
This post was edited on 3/13 6:05 PM by noelr

 

[HailToPitt1985]

That third tier in the basketball part is way off. I'm sure many of us can name at least 6 or 7 of them that don't belong there. And how can WVU be in that group when Pitt is not, while Pitt has been much more successful over the past decade than WVU? That's just nonsense.

And Pitt has a better program and coach than many on that third tier, including WVU.


I'd also put Wisconsin a bit higher than third tier.

This post was edited on 3/13 6:21 PM by HailToPitt1985

This post was edited on 3/13 6:22 PM by HailToPitt1985

 

[Atch]

Re:Ranking Coaches, Recruiting & Programs, Two Different Sports!

What basis did you use for this tier ranking?