Dixon's going nowhere-unless it's of his own volition-I have made that point about 50 times. No one disputes that Nutting is free to spend his money the way he sees fit but that doesn't insulate him from criticism that his commitment to investment(23 out of 28 teams) will never make the Pirates more than an also ran- that should be unsettling to any TRUE Pirate fan as opposed to someone somehow feels vindicated by restating the obvious and inane that no one can tell us how to spend our money. When Nutsack bought a BB team and used the public fisc to build his stadium he forfeited the right to prevent people from evaluating his spending as a measure of his commitment to winning-fact! He's a cheap bum and the facts prove it! 44 first basemen in 10 years-what a joke.
At Georgia Tech & Other Dribbles ...
- Thread starter DT_PITT
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Uhhh, correct me if I'm wrong.....was Nutting the chief owner in 1998?? Because THAT's when the stadium stuff was rammed past the taxpayers, who VOTED 2-1 AGAINST building them, in a non-binding referendum. All wired by the Rooney cabal. Pirates an afterthought, ended up with the far superior venue, ironically.
I believe he was a part owner at the time and If my memory serves me right, he was a part owner who had recently increased his ownership stake and had procured a stronger voice in the McClatchey management crew that ran the Bucs.. In any event, he was a huge beneficiary of the deal. I don't doubt, however, that the Rooney's had their nose in the entire affair-they're notorious for pressing their own interests by whatever means, wherever possible-and coming out smelling like a rose!
He had no control until 2007. Not sure when he first was involved, but the stadium thingy was several years prior his takeover. McClatchy still had the reins.
Do you resent the Rooneys for their actions?? They basically knocked Pitt off campus for football.
Fact: Pirates won more games than all but one other MLB franchise last year. Three consecutive 2nd place finishes. More wins than the Red Sox, Dodgers, Cubs, Yankees,Blue Jays and other big spending franchises. Drew over 2.5 million fans who had fun at games and enjoyed themselves. Suckers!
Dixon's going nowhere. You said it yourself. Everything else is a noisy rant.
I recognize that Nutting didn't "control" the Pirates at the time the stadium deal went down. I do believe, however, that McClatchey's grip on the franchise was tenuous at best at that point and in return for folks like Nutting kicking in more money, he conceded management control, to some degree. I believe Nutting knew McClatchey didn't have the will or or the money to maintain ownership of the Pirates and once he obtained a foothold interest in the Pirates he had designs of buying the Pirates from a group of "shallow pocketed " owners who were in over their heads. I believe Nutting had in his nose in all the stadium financing discussions as one of the principal Pirate owners.
I don't blame the Rooneys for Pitt's decision to move FB off campus. I blame that on Pitt. The Rooneys simplly provided a short sited option that a near sited set of Pitt administrators leaped upon to relieve them of having to invest in Pitt stadium. Add to that, the Pitt administration failed to get the concessions they should have procured regarding certain construction factors on the stadium which would have made the stadium appear more like a Pitt facility(frickin yellow seats, please) If I have an axe to grind with the Rooneys it's simply that as a kid growing up in Pittsburgh, who was a huge sports fan, when I was a very young kid, the Steelers stunk and Art Sr. may have been the most incompetent owner in the NFL. The Steelers were such an NFL laughing stock for so long that to be truthful, I have always been a bigger Bucco than Steeler fan. That's why Nutting just gets under my skin!
The Pirates haven't won and won't win squat. 98 regular season wins coupled with two early exits in the boobie prize stage of the playoffs is the bottom line. Three playoff appearances, the outcome of which clearly signaled that the Pirates needed a couple more pieces to get over the top-what did Nutting do under the circumstances to get the Pirates to the next level? Nothing! Instead he protecedt his wallet and thumbed his nose at you and every other bobble head lover in the tri-state area. The Pirates are now in decline. A sucker is born every day and you're proof. No one ever argued profligate spending guaranteed championships but spending that doesn't put you at least in the top half of the league payroll wise means it will take you a minor miracle to win a championship. But you don't care you like bobblheads and kielbasa on a warm summer night.
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Only 1 team out of all MLB franchises end up on top. So all the rest are losers by your measuring stick? Do you expect the Pirates to win the World Series every year? If the Pirates spent like the Dodgers, but still didn't win would that make you happier? Why?
Attendance over 2.5 million happy fans. That's a lot of suckers!
Got Happ, who won more games than any other deadline acquisition.
Keep ranting..........
I do know this, the perception of the program was much higher nationally than it was locally. Strange phenomena for sure.
Hey u both make interesting points but can u honestly say you're happy with that disastrous Bucco offseason coupled with our division rivals getting immeasurablebly better?
Again, I think it is telling that in previous year's the assistants here were always targets for head coaching jobs elsewhere. Now/? Not so much.
We'll see how it plays out. You can't say our rivals are immeasureably better until you see them play. If the games were played on paper, well you may have a point.
Disastrous off season? I don't know....Losing Pedro is addition by subtraction. Walker was going to get a bigger contract than he was worth at his age. Pick you spots.
They'll have a great bullpen, two very good starters, maybe the best outfield in baseball, solid catching. Couple of strong armed stud starters ready to come up by midseason.
They'll compete again.
And your relentless bitching and moaning about it changes it how? You're the sucker for thinking anyone, especially Nutting, gives two cents about anything you say or think! Too funny!
If you hate it so much, why do you even pay attention? That seems like a mental disorder.
Durand exhibited stupidity and selfishness by his actions. That is not a good teammate. 2 guys do not make for good team chemistry. 5 guys on the court playing in cohesion constitutes a good team.
Fun fact. The only Pitt player who shoots two point jump shots better than Sheldon Jeter is Ryan Luther (who has only shot 19 of them all season). He makes them at a greater percentage the Mike Young, Jamel Artis and all of our guards.
If you want to argue that Jeter generally should not be shooting threes then yeah, that's probably a good strategy. But if only people who shoot the ball better than Jeter has are allowed to shoot jump shots this offense is really going to look bad.
Yes, you're right. Jeter should limit his range to short jumpers and layups. But the point remains, this isn't a good outside shooting team.
I'm not going to wade into the Pirates/Nutting talk again, but someone should at least get the ownership facts right. Since the beginning Bob Nutting and his father (his father was actually the real investor in the first place) always owned more of the team that Kevin McClatchy did. Always. When McClatchy tried to get MLB to accept his team buying the club MLB objected because they were using too much debt and not enough cash to finance the transaction. So they went out and found another investor to pony up some real money, a guy by the name of Don Beaver. Beaver was a guy that the Nuttings brought into the group. That was the group that got MLB approval to buy the team.
The way that the team's board was structured at that time was that there were five "votes" on the board. McClatchy, because he was theoretically the lead investor had two votes. Ogden Nutting (who was way more involved that Bob at the time) and Bob each had one. And Don Beaver had the fifth, due to him being a guy who put up a lot of actual cash in the transaction. So theoretically from day one if the Nuttings and Beaver were displeased with the way that McClatchy was running things they could have overruled him at any time. They had no desire to do that though. They were all content to remain in the background and allow McClatchy to be the public face of the franchise and the public face of the new stadium push. As time went on and more of the minor partners cashed out (people like Chip Ganasi and some of the local companies that invested to ensure the team staying in Pittsburgh) it was almost always the Nuttings who bought up their shares, so the Nuttings owned more and more of the team as time went on. But even then they were still perfectly happy to allow McClatchy to run the show and be the public face of the team. It was only after public opinion started to turn against McClatchy that the Nuttings decided that it was time for him to go, and that's when McClatchy "quit" and Bob Nutting started being out front in running the team.
But theoretically, had the Nuttings and Don Beaver wanted to they could have run the team the way they wanted to from day one. The reason why they didn't and they didn't need to is that they were perfectly fine with the way that McClatchy was running things, so there was no need to make any change.
The way that the team's board was structured at that time was that there were five "votes" on the board. McClatchy, because he was theoretically the lead investor had two votes. Ogden Nutting (who was way more involved that Bob at the time) and Bob each had one. And Don Beaver had the fifth, due to him being a guy who put up a lot of actual cash in the transaction. So theoretically from day one if the Nuttings and Beaver were displeased with the way that McClatchy was running things they could have overruled him at any time. They had no desire to do that though. They were all content to remain in the background and allow McClatchy to be the public face of the franchise and the public face of the new stadium push. As time went on and more of the minor partners cashed out (people like Chip Ganasi and some of the local companies that invested to ensure the team staying in Pittsburgh) it was almost always the Nuttings who bought up their shares, so the Nuttings owned more and more of the team as time went on. But even then they were still perfectly happy to allow McClatchy to run the show and be the public face of the team. It was only after public opinion started to turn against McClatchy that the Nuttings decided that it was time for him to go, and that's when McClatchy "quit" and Bob Nutting started being out front in running the team.
But theoretically, had the Nuttings and Don Beaver wanted to they could have run the team the way they wanted to from day one. The reason why they didn't and they didn't need to is that they were perfectly fine with the way that McClatchy was running things, so there was no need to make any change.
So, we'll see........
Don't own a bobblehead, and what's wrong with kielbasa, it's good with saurkraut!
Actually I like kielbasa too; it's just not my motivation for attending a Buccos game which can't be said for a large number of folks who marched thru the turnstiles at PNC the last several years.
The Pirates were a bit of an afterthought. The Rooneys & running dog Smurphy got it done through HBG.
Pitt caved to the Rooneys because they agreed to rent the UPMC complex if Pitt would rent HF. So the plan to put the new arena on the OC lot, connected by escalators to a refurbished Pitt Stadium.got tossed out. The Bucs got whatever their share would build....and crushed it.
[QUOTE="NC Panther, post: 1072101, member: 1114"]With this team....unfortunately, it all comes down to one thing...Shooting.
I mean, 2-32 or whatever it was the last two games from 3?
How the F can that happen? Sterling Smith and Artis - I mean, have you both completely lost your shot? (Yes is the correct answer)
But more importantly, has your horrible shooting carried over to the rest of the team?
I saw the Va. Tech in person at 3 rows up and about 6 inches after the ball leaves the hands of Artis I'm like..."that ball ain't going in."
Our shooting % is worse than a Maia free-throw.
Btw, hey Jamie...just start Luther or Jeter at the 5 would you please?
The transfer experiment didn't work ok?
Further...(the rant continues) and because the team collectively can't (won't) play defense, we chuck it up and hope (pray at this point) that the damn ball goes in.
A good team blows our doors off if we don't shoot well i.e. UNC but OMG, we're a Final Four team after Duke - just ask Artis.
I don't think it's coaching - it's convincing! (on D at least) (Which is coaching I know that).
Dixon knows defense - knows X's and O's - he cannot convince these players to buy in to it.
Is it because they're not athletic enough to guard by the new rules? They've tuned him out long ago?
Virginia doesn't seem to have this problem and they don't seem overly athletic.
Is this team just un-coachable?
I guess that would be a 1st.
Idk - it just kills me with all on the line that we lay two consecutive eggs.
Rant over...carry on.[/QUOTE]
This is a team built around jump shooting. Name a guy on this team who can consistently create his own shot or get to the rim and create for his teamates? Name a guy who you can dump it into down low that requires the other team to double? They are not physically imposing like prior teams. They are not athletically gifted. They rely upon ball movement and hitting the open man who will have to drain a mid range to three point shot. The last two games they couldnt hit the ocean from three. In terms of the overall score, they played pretty decent defense for this team. They lost the last two because they coulndt make shots when they needed to. Sorry stats aside, this team is just not that talented. They are on the level of VT and GT... The record proves it. You are what your record says you are
I know some have said its not talent but these guys lack moxie or heart. IMO that is part of talent. Most amatures can sink a 3 foot put in their sleep. Now ask them to sink the same put for the Masters and they wont be successful. Talent includes performing when the games mean the most. This team lacks the level of talent needed to win consistently.
Regarding buying in on defense. When you are a step too slow, or are not strong enought to physically move guys in the paint to rebound, or cant jump very high, its goign to look like you dont care about defense. I dont think its a want to thing but more of a simply cant thing. Again who on PItts team is a physcially imposing defender eithe due to quickness, length, or strength?
Again this is not absolving JD. He hired this staff.. They recruited these players. Whose responsibe for not having a legit low post defender? Or a legit two/wing who can drain shots in the clutch.? Add either of those and you push the talent level up to win games like VT and GT. JD is not a guy who is goign to sweet talk recruits. He needs help in recruiting. I also think most head coaches have respected assistents to observe whats going on the floor to help make in game adjustments. I think thats lacking as well. Its JDS job to surround himself with talent both on the bench and on the court. Clearly that is the problem with this team. Has nothing to do with his sideline demeanor or kids tuning him out. This teams problems are rooted on the recuritng trail..
BTW, I watched a bit of film on Kithcart I dont think hes the savior many think hes going to be. Kid is a nice player at the HS level but for a 6'2" kid, I dont see him elevate much Maybe I watched the wrong tapes but he didnt seem all that athletic to me. Pinning your hopes on a HS pg to make the transition to the college level is risky If they kid is not physically able to compete at this level.........chances are slim he'll be the difference maker this team neads.
I mean, 2-32 or whatever it was the last two games from 3?
How the F can that happen? Sterling Smith and Artis - I mean, have you both completely lost your shot? (Yes is the correct answer)
But more importantly, has your horrible shooting carried over to the rest of the team?
I saw the Va. Tech in person at 3 rows up and about 6 inches after the ball leaves the hands of Artis I'm like..."that ball ain't going in."
Our shooting % is worse than a Maia free-throw.
Btw, hey Jamie...just start Luther or Jeter at the 5 would you please?
The transfer experiment didn't work ok?
Further...(the rant continues) and because the team collectively can't (won't) play defense, we chuck it up and hope (pray at this point) that the damn ball goes in.
A good team blows our doors off if we don't shoot well i.e. UNC but OMG, we're a Final Four team after Duke - just ask Artis.
I don't think it's coaching - it's convincing! (on D at least) (Which is coaching I know that).
Dixon knows defense - knows X's and O's - he cannot convince these players to buy in to it.
Is it because they're not athletic enough to guard by the new rules? They've tuned him out long ago?
Virginia doesn't seem to have this problem and they don't seem overly athletic.
Is this team just un-coachable?
I guess that would be a 1st.
Idk - it just kills me with all on the line that we lay two consecutive eggs.
Rant over...carry on.[/QUOTE]
This is a team built around jump shooting. Name a guy on this team who can consistently create his own shot or get to the rim and create for his teamates? Name a guy who you can dump it into down low that requires the other team to double? They are not physically imposing like prior teams. They are not athletically gifted. They rely upon ball movement and hitting the open man who will have to drain a mid range to three point shot. The last two games they couldnt hit the ocean from three. In terms of the overall score, they played pretty decent defense for this team. They lost the last two because they coulndt make shots when they needed to. Sorry stats aside, this team is just not that talented. They are on the level of VT and GT... The record proves it. You are what your record says you are
I know some have said its not talent but these guys lack moxie or heart. IMO that is part of talent. Most amatures can sink a 3 foot put in their sleep. Now ask them to sink the same put for the Masters and they wont be successful. Talent includes performing when the games mean the most. This team lacks the level of talent needed to win consistently.
Regarding buying in on defense. When you are a step too slow, or are not strong enought to physically move guys in the paint to rebound, or cant jump very high, its goign to look like you dont care about defense. I dont think its a want to thing but more of a simply cant thing. Again who on PItts team is a physcially imposing defender eithe due to quickness, length, or strength?
Again this is not absolving JD. He hired this staff.. They recruited these players. Whose responsibe for not having a legit low post defender? Or a legit two/wing who can drain shots in the clutch.? Add either of those and you push the talent level up to win games like VT and GT. JD is not a guy who is goign to sweet talk recruits. He needs help in recruiting. I also think most head coaches have respected assistents to observe whats going on the floor to help make in game adjustments. I think thats lacking as well. Its JDS job to surround himself with talent both on the bench and on the court. Clearly that is the problem with this team. Has nothing to do with his sideline demeanor or kids tuning him out. This teams problems are rooted on the recuritng trail..
BTW, I watched a bit of film on Kithcart I dont think hes the savior many think hes going to be. Kid is a nice player at the HS level but for a 6'2" kid, I dont see him elevate much Maybe I watched the wrong tapes but he didnt seem all that athletic to me. Pinning your hopes on a HS pg to make the transition to the college level is risky If they kid is not physically able to compete at this level.........chances are slim he'll be the difference maker this team neads.
For the billionth time. Buyouts dont equal annual salary times years left on contract. It is a number negotiated into the contract. It has to be fair for both parties. Do you think Dixon would have wanted a $20 million buyout if an NBA team or blueblood program came after him a few years ago? The number is probably $8-10 million.
Yep, depends on the language. Even then, all parties(hiring school, coach) can agree to chip in to pay it including scheduling some games etc.
Obviously, there's a "current value" calc to be made. Plus, his salary isn't $3 million. Reported as $1.4 for FY2014. Lots of incentives went into that big year....he may not be making as much, now. This is a moot point, he's not getting canned....for hoops reasons, not $$ reasons. Besides, if he gets canned and lands a new gig (2 weeks at the outside) his buyout may be negligible because of offsets. Pitt has lawyers, too.
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