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Athletic donations

MorningCoffee13

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Aug 23, 2023
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Probably discussed too often. Pitt’s educational endowment is pretty substantial. So there are “folks” who are willingly donating to the true business of the University.

But why is the athletic side just so small in comparison to other schools?
 
Probably discussed too often. Pitt’s educational endowment is pretty substantial. So there are “folks” who are willingly donating to the true business of the University.

But why is the athletic side just so small in comparison to other schools?

Pitt has a large endowment but maybe Paco can correct me here but I dont think Pitt gets annual individual or corporate donor contributions at a level which is any different than any other like school. What Pitt has in its favor is that its a very old institution so all that old money has been growing in the stock market. Inotherwords, it was rich early enough.
 
Pitt has a large endowment but maybe Paco can correct me here but I dont think Pitt gets annual individual or corporate donor contributions at a level which is any different than any other like school. What Pitt has in its favor is that its a very old institution so all that old money has been growing in the stock market. Inotherwords, it was rich early enough.
It doesn’t matter when it came. It came.
 
Pitt has a large endowment but maybe Paco can correct me here but I dont think Pitt gets annual individual or corporate donor contributions at a level which is any different than any other like school. What Pitt has in its favor is that its a very old institution so all that old money has been growing in the stock market. Inotherwords, it was rich early enough.
When you have treated your football program like a cheap date for 40 years you don't get much in the way of donations. I'm glad to see Gabel getting on Lyke's behind about her failure to emphasize importance of UIL. Gabel looks like a winner. Told Lyke to get on the ball and money for the revenue sports
 
When you have treated your football program like a cheap date for 40 years you don't get much in the way of donations. I'm glad to see Gabel getting on Lyke's behind about her failure to emphasize importance of UIL. Gabel looks like a winner. Told Lyke to get on the ball and money for the revenue sports

I hope she tells her that the volleyball team is doing just fine at Fitzgerald so the new arena will instead become an NIL Fundraising Facility.
 
When you have treated your football program like a cheap date for 40 years you don't get much in the way of donations. I'm glad to see Gabel getting on Lyke's behind about her failure to emphasize importance of UIL. Gabel looks like a winner. Told Lyke to get on the ball and money for the revenue sports

Correct. And sad.
 
When you have treated your football program like a cheap date for 40 years you don't get much in the way of donations. I'm glad to see Gabel getting on Lyke's behind about her failure to emphasize importance of UIL. Gabel looks like a winner. Told Lyke to get on the ball and money for the revenue sports
I would love to see them correct this. I don’t donate a ton but each year when my wife and I talk about making donations at Christmas I always end up sending bucks to Pitt. Sometimes athletics. Sometimes academics. It might buy Duzz an extra roll of tape but whatever.

I would almost love to know what some of these big donor schools do. I guess ones maybe not in SEC or something but ones where you say holy hell how did they get that much money.
 
I have donated to PITT athletics but have since stepped back and only donate to the educational endowment since NIL began. College sports is broken and I cannot fathom giving money to a kid who can run a 4.5 40 yard dash. My money...my opinion.
 
I value the institution greater then the athletics. PITT can actually change the world (and has) through the brilliant teachers, students, and researchers. The best an athlete can do is sell some jerseys and tickets. It's a non-starter for me.
Athletics has its place in a university. Just shouldn't be the first thing you think about when the school is mentioned.
 
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My back of the napkin calculation is that 30% of the college sports fans in our region are Pitt fans. Maybe 15% each for ND and PSU. Maybe another 10% for WVU. Maybe another 30% for all the various others. Frankly, in the lifetimes of most current donors, Pitt athletics has been getting smashed by all those programs named above who happen to be rivals. That doesn't inspire pride which doesn't inspire buy-in.

Now many fans of those other schools interact with Pitt in its academic context and profit from it so they can feel comfortable contributing to those areas without feeling disloyal to their rooting interests, especially since they don't see us as being a threat athletically.

Hey, maybe Pitt's athletic incompetence is actually a stroke of genius?
 
My back of the napkin calculation is that 30% of the college sports fans in our region are Pitt fans. Maybe 15% each for ND and PSU. Maybe another 10% for WVU. Maybe another 30% for all the various others. Frankly, in the lifetimes of most current donors, Pitt athletics has been getting smashed by all those programs named above who happen to be rivals. That doesn't inspire pride which doesn't inspire buy-in.

Now many fans of those other schools interact with Pitt in its academic context and profit from it so they can feel comfortable contributing to those areas without feeling disloyal to their rooting interests, especially since they don't see us as being a threat athletically.

Hey, maybe Pitt's athletic incompetence is actually a stroke of genius?

If we are only talking about Allegheny County and bordering counties, I'd say:

50% Pitt
25% PSU
10% Notre Dame
5% OSU
5% WVU
5% other
 
I have donated to PITT athletics but have since stepped back and only donate to the educational endowment since NIL began. College sports is broken and I cannot fathom giving money to a kid who can run a 4.5 40 yard dash. My money...my opinion.

Same. You better run a 4.39 if you want my coin.
 
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If we are only talking about Allegheny County and bordering counties, I'd say:

50% Pitt
25% PSU
10% Notre Dame
5% OSU
5% WVU
5% other

Yeah, this is closer to accurate. Pitt is clearly ahead of Penn State, which is clearly ahead of Notre Dame.

I've seen like three WVU fans in Allegheny County ever. Fayette and Washington counties are another story, obviously, as I'm sure is Greene... but they're like finding needle experts in a haystack as you get closer to the city.
 
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My back of the napkin calculation is that 30% of the college sports fans in our region are Pitt fans. Maybe 15% each for ND and PSU. Maybe another 10% for WVU. Maybe another 30% for all the various others. Frankly, in the lifetimes of most current donors, Pitt athletics has been getting smashed by all those programs named above who happen to be rivals. That doesn't inspire pride which doesn't inspire buy-in.

Now many fans of those other schools interact with Pitt in its academic context and profit from it so they can feel comfortable contributing to those areas without feeling disloyal to their rooting interests, especially since they don't see us as being a threat athletically.

Hey, maybe Pitt's athletic incompetence is actually a stroke of genius?

I'd wager a guess that at least 80% of people in the Pittsburgh region are more likely to leave a donation in their will to ND or PSU over Pitt. And many of them wouldn't even be big fans.

The truth is that Pitt has done a really crap job of cultivating fans for decades. Combine that with a general negative view of large institutions in Pittsburgh, and you have an anti Pitt narrative that is very pervasive and can't be overcome. Oddly enough, the same folks who don't like/trust Pitt will be perfectly fine loving ND or PSU, as if those aren't also large institutions.

Not that different from people hating on higher education and government support if it, but then show up in huge numbers in the deep south to support the team.
 
I'd wager a guess that at least 80% of people in the Pittsburgh region are more likely to leave a donation in their will to ND or PSU over Pitt. And many of them wouldn't even be big fans.

The truth is that Pitt has done a really crap job of cultivating fans for decades. Combine that with a general negative view of large institutions in Pittsburgh, and you have an anti Pitt narrative that is very pervasive and can't be overcome. Oddly enough, the same folks who don't like/trust Pitt will be perfectly fine loving ND or PSU, as if those aren't also large institutions.

Not that different from people hating on higher education and government support if it, but then show up in huge numbers in the deep south to support the team.
I'll be honest, there are far better causes for your spare coin than stroking the ego of a college kid with NIL money. I will still send money to the athletic fund but never to an NIL.
 
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I'll be honest, there are far better causes for your spare coin than stroking the ego of a college kid with NIL money. I will still send money to the athletic fund but never to an NIL.

It depends how you look at it. Do I like donating? No. I'd much prefer Pitt paid their players directly. But I am a fan and this is the college sports model now. Instead of paying the players directly, the fans have to pay the players or you are going to have bad teams. College football has become a pro sport and as a fan, you have to pay for that. Or stop watching or be fine with 4-8 seasons.
 
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One of the 35 wealthiest people in America is a Pitt alum, loves football in general, and is a Pitt football fan. He is worth about $25 billion. If there was ever a blueprint for a Pitt football mega-donor, it's this guy. Yet, he's not interested in turning Pitt into a national title contender in football. Just our luck....

Don't get me wrong, he makes donations to athletics and they are appreciated, but he is not making "buy a Top 5 team" type of donations to Pitt football.
 
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I'll be honest, there are far better causes for your spare coin than stroking the ego of a college kid with NIL money. I will still send money to the athletic fund but never to an NIL.

I agree. And Pitt can't compete in the NIL anyway.
 
if the NCAA would allow private equity money to buy the PITT athletics brand (specifically football), I would stroke an investment check for $500,000 today. It would be a no brainer. We would build PITT football into a champion and money making machine.
 
if the NCAA would allow private equity money to buy the PITT athletics brand (specifically football), I would stroke an investment check for $500,000 today. It would be a no brainer. We would build PITT football into a champion and money making machine.

OSU would raise 10x more.
 
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Nil is not investing; more like throwing your money away. Not a nickel.

No one said its an investment. Its you paying the salary of players for your favorite team. Its a terrible business model but there are plenty of fans out there that do it so if you want Pitt to compete, you also have to pay them.

What Pitt has to figure out a way to do is to align NIL with tickets. Like instead of charging $500 per season ticket, maybe you charge $50 + $450 Alliance 412 contribution. Football revenue would go way down but the general university fund could always pick up the tab. Player salaries have to be by far the most important expense right now.
 
No one said its an investment. Its you paying the salary of players for your favorite team. Its a terrible business model but there are plenty of fans out there that do it so if you want Pitt to compete, you also have to pay them.

What Pitt has to figure out a way to do is to align NIL with tickets. Like instead of charging $500 per season ticket, maybe you charge $50 + $450 Alliance 412 contribution. Football revenue would go way down but the general university fund could always pick up the tab. Player salaries have to be by far the most important expense right now.

This is pretty much what they will have to do. Problem is that literally every other program will still raise more.
 
This is pretty much what they will have to do. Problem is that literally every other program will still raise more.

Yea. Everyone else can do this but Pitt will have to figure out a moneyball approach. We arent exactly competing with Ohio State and Penn State. We should he able to pay players as much as UVa, VT, Lou, GT, etc.

When you buy a Steeler ticket, a portion of that goes to pay player salaries....indirectly. This would be the same thing except it goes directly.
 
if the NCAA would allow private equity money to buy the PITT athletics brand (specifically football), I would stroke an investment check for $500,000 today. It would be a no brainer. We would build PITT football into a champion and money making machine.
I mean, that's what pro sports are. There wouldn't be a legit reason for Pitt to associate with a scheme that involved turning over it's athletics to a private firm.
 
I mean, that's what pro sports are. There wouldn't be a legit reason for Pitt to associate with a scheme that involved turning over it's athletics to a private firm.

That's what Florida State and the Big 12 are looking into. People need to get the "this is an amateur sport" thing out of their head. Pitt has 2 pro sports.
 
That's what Florida State and the Big 12 are looking into. People need to get the "this is an amateur sport" thing out of their head. Pitt has 2 pro sports.
Let them. It's not that anyone cares about amateurism. That's a long forgotten notion. Colleges trying to be minor league pro football franchises isn't going to work for schools that aren't already football first. There isn't any interest in that from a school like Pitt. You already have a huge brand pro football brand in the city. There isn't a profitable outcome for throwing tons of money at Pitt or even a dozen or so football programs that are nestled in the corn fields and hollers or fly over country that are already #2 in those areas that doesn't leave those schools in worse shape. All you end up with is some PE firm that squeezes the last few bucks out of your brand and leaves you for dead.
 
Let them. It's not that anyone cares about amateurism. That's a long forgotten notion. Colleges trying to be minor league pro football franchises isn't going to work for schools that aren't already football first. There isn't any interest in that from a school like Pitt. You already have a huge brand pro football brand in the city. There isn't a profitable outcome for throwing tons of money at Pitt or even a dozen or so football programs that are nestled in the corn fields and hollers or fly over country that are already #2 in those areas that doesn't leave those schools in worse shape. All you end up with is some PE firm that squeezes the last few bucks out of your brand and leaves you for dead.

I dont think you realize how profitable Pitt football is. Its biggest expense is a fake expense. It pays the university for the player's tuition. And it really doesnt cost 40K/year for an out of state QB to sit in a classroom and have a TA grade his papers. There is SOME cost to that. But its not 40K or anywhere close to that. Its a fake expense. Take out this tuition expense and you have coaching salaries, travel, food, etc. From a revenue standpoint, the ESPN + CFP money + ticket revenue and sponsorships far outweigh these expenses.
 
I dont think you realize how profitable Pitt football is. Its biggest expense is a fake expense. It pays the university for the player's tuition. And it really doesnt cost 40K/year for an out of state QB to sit in a classroom and have a TA grade his papers. There is SOME cost to that. But its not 40K or anywhere close to that. Its a fake expense. Take out this tuition expense and you have coaching salaries, travel, food, etc. From a revenue standpoint, the ESPN + CFP money + ticket revenue and sponsorships far outweigh these expenses.
I do understand how valuable Pitt football is but I also understand why. There is a limit on returns once you start monkeying around with it from the perspective of treating it like a professional franchise. You seem to think that you can just throw the baby out with the bathwater and it's pretty likely that won't be the case.
 
If we are only talking about Allegheny County and bordering counties, I'd say:

50% Pitt
25% PSU
10% Notre Dame
5% OSU
5% WVU
5% other
I was describing the SWPA market. Pitt doesn't have 50% of the AGH market. I'd guess 40% and PSU is 20%. There's a lot of transplants in the county that pull for odd teams. Other is around 20% here.
 
I dont think you realize how profitable Pitt football is. Its biggest expense is a fake expense. It pays the university for the player's tuition. And it really doesnt cost 40K/year for an out of state QB to sit in a classroom and have a TA grade his papers. There is SOME cost to that. But its not 40K or anywhere close to that. Its a fake expense. Take out this tuition expense and you have coaching salaries, travel, food, etc. From a revenue standpoint, the ESPN + CFP money + ticket revenue and sponsorships far outweigh these expenses.
The athletic department is charged by the university for the cost of tuition, fees, etc. As are the athletic departments at every school. It pretty much works the same everywhere. So it is a very real expense for the athletic department. That doesn't get into the fairly newish cost of attendance payments to athletes, or the long existing costs of training tables, nutritionists, medical and sports medicine, athletic trainers, academic tutors, and the myriad of other athlete support programs that all FBS D1 schools offer to stay competitive at a minimum level.
 
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The athletic department is charged by the university for the cost of tuition, fees, etc. As are the athletic departments at every school. It pretty much works the same everywhere. So it is a very real expense for the athletic department. That doesn't get into the fairly newish cost of attendance payments to athletes, or the long existing costs of training tables, nutritionists, medical and sports medicine, athletic trainers, academic tutors, and the myriad of other athlete support programs that all FBS D1 schools offer to stay competitive at a minimum level.
Interesting that the school charges athletic department for tuition. My wife worked in higher ed and our daughter received her Pitt tuition for free because in theory a child of a Pitt employee wanted to attend the school that my wife worked at. Do I think that really happened? Absolutely not. Pretty sure it was just a wink and a nod agreement amongst schools as a means to keep employees.
 
Probably discussed too often. Pitt’s educational endowment is pretty substantial. So there are “folks” who are willingly donating to the true business of the University.

But why is the athletic side just so small in comparison to other schools?

Pitts endowment is one of the largest in the world.

I have given to the engineering school many times, as the companies ive worked with match donations. I have never once given to the athletic side, why would I? I support by paying money going to games, Players should never get paid, it makes no sense to me, and I really would never give to the athletic department in the future due to this.
 
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