Then let him turn pro out of high school. I'm not giving a cent any longer to "college athletics" as it is now. I hang up the phone when they call.
Athletic donations
- Thread starter MorningCoffee13
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Then let him turn pro out of high school. I'm not giving a cent any longer to "college athletics" as it is now. I hang up the phone when they call.
The team would have a certain valuation...for instance the Steelers are worth $500 million. tOSU would be able to raise capital up to their valuation perhaps $50 million. as an example.
Correct but the expense isnt what I consider to be real. Its like charging myself rent my bedroom in my own house. Yes, its an expense but the money is going back to me.
I would estimate less than 10% of posters actually donate or but season tickets
That’s pretty much the problem in a nutshell
That’s pretty much the problem in a nutshell
More and more Pitt fans are not donating and are not renewing their season's tickets. Why bother getting season's tickets? Go buy a ticket for the games you want to go to. They are plentiful. I know my group is done renewing after this year. That's quite a few tickets.
Your opinion is like many, the system should be to reward and retain players that have earned it on the field, diamond, court, mat or pitch. Not bribe some HS kid who has proven nothing and might not work out. Hell you can pay them and portal for more money else after each season.
Perhaps because the program is stale and people have been duped into buying tickets and donating to see the same result over and over. Outside of the extreme outlier of 2021, a year in which Narduzzi still fumbled. The program has largely been underwhelming.
At what point is it too much? And I don’t mean just with Pitt, I mean with college sports in general. I understand Pitt fans in general are, ummmm, frugal. At the same time though, there are about 7,457,098 better causes to donate to. Giving to college athletics in large sums, quite frankly, is stupid.
The attitude of Pitt fans espoused in this thread, when compared to the fans of peers power conference schools that Pitt fans expect the school to compete with....in the words of Yoda, "that... is why you fail."
Just because everyone does it doesn’t mean I’m wrong. The system is completely out of whack.
The system being out of whack is irrelevant to Pitt's place in it. Pitt has to operate in the system that exists.
Why? Pitt isn’t going to be at the big boy table when all is said and done. Reevaluate where you’re at and adjust accordingly. Pitt is in an arms race that it can’t compete in. We all know it.
Paco...you sound like some sort of University lemming. It is wrong, that is why many of us are not participating. If it means doing the right thing and having a sub par team then so be it. You are usually an excellent spokesperson for the University and our community. Frankly, I find your comments embarrassing.
LOL, yeah, that ad hominem has been a constant retort of people looking for excuses to justify their lack of support for decades.
Everyone understands the collegiate athletics system in FBS. Everyone knows that in college athletics, for an athletic program to have any measure of sustained success, it must obtain resources outside of the institution itself. That isn't new, it is as old as collegiate athletics itself, it is just more so true now than ever.
No one has to be a booster. Heck some don't have the resources to do so, and that is okay. And I don't know anyone that likes the current situation in college athletics with NIL. But that is what Pitt has to operate in, and howling at the moon doesn't change that reality.
But self declared fans that openly boast of their lack of their support, and essentially campaign for others to join as if it is some sort of moral crusade, IMO, forfeit their right to be heard. Those people opinion's, to me, mean less than zero, and Pitt would be better off if they just STFU and looked elsewhere for their entertainment.
Neither of us know the answer if we are both honest.
So proactively embrace quitting and failure.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
While I agree, it's really tough to choose a path forward without any hint at what five or ten years from now will look like. The toughest part will be knowing when to go all in or switch to a table with a cheaper buy-in or if there is even something in between. It's not easy to compete when many schools have a less volatile future in front of them and can maneuver the new landscape with some certainty.
Pitt adds very little value to the Big 2. It sucks, but it’s reality. And even if they would miraculously end up in either, they would be a punching bag.
You concede the current system will not allow us to succeed and is morally and ethically void. Why are you advocating it? I know many alumni from multiple schools who have expressed disgust and abstained from giving. Perhaps a schism will occur in college sports and the schools that value education (with a side of athletics) will move into its own conference. It can change....as Yoda said, "Patience you must have".
You are better then that.
I conceded nothing about the current system, nor am I advocating for it.
The current level of fan and donor support has and will prevent Pitt from succeeding though.
So you agree that PITT cannot succeed whether we participate or not under the current system?
or
You think PITT donors should participate in a corrupt and selfish system that rewards 18 year olds?
Are we talking regular roll of tape money; or roll of alien tape money?
What I know is that you like ad hominems and strawmen.
What I think, is that Pitt can succeed in the current system if it has both the institutional and extra-institutional support necessary.
I do not know if there is a will or means either institutionally or extra-institutionally, but both must be there. I believe the institutional will has been there based on observations, but my opinion on that could change, particularly with more data points on the current administration and forthcoming new Athletic Director.
Individuals that have an interest in the success of Pitt athletics will need to provide extra-institutional resources as the current system dictates. What I also know is that at least 10,302 individuals already have the will to provide extra-institutional support, but that is not enough.
If someone has an interest in the success of Pitt athletics, but is unwilling to provide resources for Pitt's support over their moral opposition to the system in which Pitt operates, they need to grasp the reality that they aren't going to change the system by effectively boycotting the support of Pitt athletics. All that will do is hurt Pitt's ability to operate in a system which it has no control over.
Strictly in the context of support to Pitt, if those individuals also openly advocate for others to do the same, that is openly calling for the sabotage of Pitt's success, and they need to stop calling themselves "fans" and find something else to occupy their time.
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Question. So, you have an extra 500 laying around. Who are people more inclined to give to? St. Jude’s or Pitt? Just curious.
Also, for the 500th time, Pitt doesn’t have the luxury of determining who’s a fan and who’s not. They simply don’t have a big enough fan base to just jettison fans off and tell them to root for someone else. Pitt is lucky to have as many fans and donors as it does.
The desire of Pitt fans, to pony up to compete is abysmal AT THIS LEVEL.
This program, and the corresponding financial commitment by the administration and the fan base, is far better suited to the same league as Temple, Memphis, Tulsa, E. Carolina, UConn, etc. There would be far less complaining and finger pointing. It stings to hear this truth because we were at one time on top of the CFB world.
But Pitt's glory days is kinda like the one time in my life i had a smokeshow girlfriend, when all the others were in the same lane as me.
I don’t care about the “state” of college football .
I care about helping pitt football . And enjoy watching the game in person .
Same way I go to multiple concerts a year . It’s entertainment which is relatively cheap .
I am fortunate that it’s not an either or situation for me .
I donate to Pitt school of pharmacy more than athletics .
I also donate more to other charities .
Give to Children’s Hospital Foundation instead .
But it you are so cash strapped that it’s an either or choice for you-
By all means / stop watching games and start working more
I think we just fundamentally disagree. If you think that the athletic department should take the approach of high income earners donating more money to the program, that’s one way to do it. However, I think they should take the approach of more donors, giving less money. 500 bucks of discretionary income is a big ask in today’s economy. A lot of folks are just making ends meet.
Pitt may not, but I sure can.
And if they are actively undermining the program and not actively supporting it, then their loss means nothing but a net positive.
BTW, I personally do not look at giving to Pitt athletics the same way as I do my other charitable donations. Obviously not all "charitable" giving is the same because the vast myriad of entities legally qualifying as tax-deductable "charities" are vastly different from one another. It just so happens that, legally, my giving to the athletic department is as tax deductible as giving to, say, a hospital free care fund..and I take advantage of that tax deduction because I am legally entitled to. The truth is, I care enough about Pitt athletics that I'd support financially whether it was tax deductible or not, and that is reflected in my support of Alliance 412 in addition to the university's athletic department. It does not impact my other, non-athletic giving one iota because, even though I have a varsity letter from the athletic department and, being from a family of coaches, believe strongly in the overall usefullness of sports to society, giving to Pitt (for me) is not so much charitable giving as it is where I put some of my deposible income spending: I realize that giving to Pitt athletics is largely narcissistic even for some of the more noble causes like supporting the education of non-revenue student-athletes, because it still boils down to a means of fulfilling my own preferences and designs on entertainment and living vicariously through my alma mater's exploits. The joy of Pitt performing well may be one that the fan base shares collective, but it is still a function of the self fulfillment of my entertainment preferences, nonetheless.
"Give me five minutes with a person's checkbook, and I will tell you where their heart is."
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What is never taken into account is.............
1) Percentage of sports fans who just don't give a damn about college sports.
2) Percentage people who just don't give a damn about sports.
So Say the Metro Area is ~ 2.2 million people.
50% Likely don't care at all. That's 1.1 million people.
35% Likely don't care about college sports. That's 770K
That leaves about ~330K So about 100K are Pitt fans? That sounds high to me. And of that 100K, maybe 50% actually are avid Pitt fans. I think there are more PSU fans in the region that you are giving credit for. Remember "region" means more than Allegheny County.
The bottom line is Pitt fanbase maybe cheap, but it is also relatively small for a P4 program. We are closer along the lines of those few who are private schools.
But again, I think you guys are making an assumption that this is out of the general population or even sports fans. Fact is, at least 2/3's of folks likely could care less about college football. Sure, they may watch some on TV, but to go to games, let alone donate? Come on man.
It's stated very clearly that we're talking about college sports fans and not the general population. Where's the assumption in that? I doubt anyone would argue that many in this area just don't give a damn about college sports at all.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
If we're talking about the general population, I would say that the Pittsburgh region is more of a passive sports city when it comes to anything but the Steelers and the occasional fair weather fandom when one of the teams is a winner. All of them, including Pitt, has their hardcore base that provides rabid support but once you start moving to the periphery, it gets really thin for every team except the Steelers. The fact that Pitt football has to compete directly with the Steelers AND high school football for eyes makes it very difficult in a world where you must get more than just the face price of the ticket to prosper. And I know this because if you look at the column inches and media time dedicated to those three football entities as a whole, Pitt is dead last. The Fedko Zone gets more eyes than any pregame spot or postgame highlights featuring Pitt. And I don't include PSU in that discussion because it sort of levels out. They simply have the advantage of numbers and scale. If your percentages are true for Pitt, they're more or less true for PSU but they get by on volume.
If Pitt football is the only thing you care about and it is the one team you have to see win, not investing beyond tickets and merchandise is going to doom the program. That's always been true of college football but especially now with the NIL and an extremely unbalanced TV revenue structure.
It's probably impossible to say what percentage of people in an area are fans of a particular college football team. Her is one attempt by the NY Times, albeit from 2014. Its an interactive map that shows the top 3 football teams teams for each zip code and the percentage of people in that zip code that for fans for that team.
www.nytimes.com
College Football Fan Map (Published 2014)
Fans of 82 teams by ZIP code, as based on Facebook ‘likes’.
Analogy I heard long ago that always makes me laugh.
Take $20 out of your left pocket and put in your right pocket.
- Engineering - Ok, we still have $20.
- Accounting - No, no, no... now the left pocket is $20 under and the right pocket is $20 over
On all of this, if I am being honest, my interest in the last 10 years in general has really went downhill overall in college football. Conference realignment, NIL, the expanded playoff, etc. has taken away a lot of what made the game unique. Add in Pitt tripping over its own dick regularly and my own personal goals and interests, and I went from being a donor and traveling to bowl games regularly to a casual observer. Hell, I made three straight trips to Birmingham for God’s sake. Now, my son plays at a small D2 school on top of it, so if I am giving to an athletic department it’s going there. I still care about Pitt football and athletics, but my interest and participation has slowly dwindled to being a casual fan.
And then there is the government employee, who replaces the 20 with an IOU and spends the money. And then when someone asks how much money they have, they claim they still have the 20.
I appreciate that perspective, I just don’t know how you can say not supporting the program is their loss, and then complain about attendance or lack of donors.
The reality is that Pitt is straddled with a 58 year old coach who’s been very average minus 1 year where he won 10 games. There’s no juice to the program, probably because of Narduzzi’s personality, but also because he’s been average enough that the local hardcore fans like him, everyone else doesn’t care.
There's no juice to the program because it's now a sport where Pitt can't compete at a very high level. That, and they also play in a conference with a very uncertainty future. Why would anyone care about the personality of the coach?
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