Big 12 expansion predictions

[Las Panteras]

Its going to be interesting watching it unfold. If they add 4 teams they are pretty much dooming themselves to the bottom of the power 5, those schools other than BYU don't help the b12 with their biggest problems which are 1. they simply don't have enough teams that draw good tv numbers-this is going to hurt them when the tv contract expires their ratings have been pretty far behind the ACC which is almost as far behind the sec and b10. And 2. there base is simply to small geographically adding another TX team won't help. Memphis might help a little but these schools barely/if the even do control their own market, for instance Memphis might legitimately deliver the memphis market(I would guess TN has just as many fans in the city) but its not delivering much outside that city.

I agree with this......

With that said....the Big 12 is in a pickle as many candidates are in the same boat as Memphis

To me.....Cincy checks all the boxes.

After that......I think Houston gets a nod. They may not control their own market with Texas......but the city has an enormous population and in Houtson, Texas.... CFB drives the bus. Together........these metrics make Houston an attractive addition. And......the league already added TCU.......a similar example in many ways.

 

[Las Panteras]

Memphis & Houston makes the most sense. However, Houston is a long shot because the other Texas schools don't want to recruit against Herman as a Power 5 school.

Keep your eye on Tulane... Great academics, a geographical fit and has the New Orleans TV market... Cincinnati, Boise and BYU are too far...

ummmmmm.......

the Big 12 Presidents will decide against Houston because they are afraid of Tom Herman...

Ok........

At last count...there were 17 people in the entire state of Louisiana watching Tulane football on TV

Great academics???? How does that mesh with a conference that has WVU????

D minus.....do it over again.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Not the Big Ten, the discussion is expansion of Big 12.

Sums up the entire discussion.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

However, Houston is a long shot because the other Texas schools don't want to recruit against Herman as a Power 5 school.

.

Much the way years ago that the supposedly basketball-centric "Big" East wanted no part of John Chaney.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

ummmmmm.......

the Big 12 Presidents will decide against Houston because they are afraid of Tom Herman...

Ok........

At last count...there were 17 people in the entire state of Louisiana watching Tulane football on TV

Great academics???? How does that mesh with a conference that has WVU????

D minus.....do it over again.

Tom Herman also could be the next coach at.....Texas? Ohio State? LSU? I cannot believe someone would cite this as a factor, They let in Gary Patterson and TCU.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Looks like they are expanding. Not known whether it will be by 2 or 4.

My predictions:

4 teams:

1. Houston - new stadium, new market since they lost A&M (though UT and OU have large fanbases there). This is the only no-brainer

2. Memphis - FedEx money/backing, improving football, bball juggernaut, large city/market for not having many pro sports, great upside and close to Big 12 territory

3. Cincinnati - good market, stadium improvements show commitment

4. UCF - Orlando market

Missed out:

BYU - I wanted to put BYU in there but they just dont fit. Whether its right or not, I think their religious affiliation will scare enough people away

Colorado State - I could see it but I think the B12 goes to OH and FL first

UConn - just a little too far to go for bad football

Tulane - dont rule it out, NO is a great football market but I doubt it

Boise - too far, not big enough market

East
WVU
Cincy
UCF
Memphis
ISU
Kansas
KST

West
OU
OKST
TX
TT
TCU
Baylor
Houston

That East Division would blow.

WOW, your east division is bad as ACC coastal.

OK here is where you are wrong.

1. BYU is not being left out
2. So far UH has three supporters, TexA$$, TT and Texas Gov. and the Gov can’t black mail the two PrivateTexas schools. I can’t see a time where a 5th Texas program gets 8 votes
3. There will not be a traditional East/West or North/South Division.
4. No way all Texas programs end up in same division.
5. OU and TX will be in separate division, playing every year as cross rival. Game will be early in the season so aN OU/TX rematch will be more palatable.

Four being added

Number 11 BYU
Number 12 UC
NUMBER 13 CSU
NUMBER 14 Memphis or UCF

Here is an example of what the new division will look like

BIG 7
OU
OKST
WVU
Cincy
UCF/Memphis
TT
Baylor

GREAT 7
TX
TCU
Kansas
KST
ISU
BYU
CSU

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Much the way years ago that the supposedly basketball-centric "Big" East wanted no part of John Chaney.

That isn't the reason that Temple was never invited to the Big East, and you know it.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

ummmmmm.......

the Big 12 Presidents will decide against Houston because they are afraid of Tom Herman...

Ok........

At last count...there were 17 people in the entire state of Louisiana watching Tulane football on TV

Great academics???? How does that mesh with a conference that has WVU????

D minus.....do it over again.

I am not predicting Tulane by any means but you have to realize there are no standout choices.

Let me be Tulane for a second and make my sales pitch:

- we have a new on-campus stadium that is expandable

- we are in a great TV market

- we are located in an extremely fertile recruiting area where you can reasonably expect some Big 12 schools to win Louisiana recruiting battles. Are Big 12 schools going to ever beat a Big Ten school for an Ohio kid if you admit Cincy? Its just too far away.

- premier traveling fan destination. We'll even play Texas and OU in the SuperDome so 40K of their fans can make the drive

- Cincinnati has great in field success but with all that success, they never sell out their small stadium and the Big 12 brand has little chance of getting any foothold there, literally on the Big Ten/SEC border with the ACC very close by also.

- Taking us is a shot at the SEC. They took A&M and that market. No we arent at that level but if we get good, people in New Orleans will pay attention. When Texas and OU and TCU and whatever other L8 school paid the highest salaries to their players and ate undefeated, people in New Orleans will pay attention

- Going with Cincy is easy. They've had good success, get 25K-30K per game and its a good TV market. Tulane checks more boxes. Who is to say we cant elevate to be a good program and Cincy wont fall flat. Look to the future!

 

[Jpripper88]

I am not predicting Tulane by any means but you have to realize there are no standout choices.

Let me be Tulane for a second and make my sales pitch:

- we have a new on-campus stadium that is expandable

- we are in a great TV market

- we are located in an extremely fertile recruiting area where you can reasonably expect some Big 12 schools to win Louisiana recruiting battles. Are Big 12 schools going to ever beat a Big Ten school for an Ohio kid if you admit Cincy? Its just too far away.

- premier traveling fan destination. We'll even play Texas and OU in the SuperDome so 40K of their fans can make the drive

- Cincinnati has great in field success but with all that success, they never sell out their small stadium and the Big 12 brand has little chance of getting any foothold there, literally on the Big Ten/SEC border with the ACC very close by also.

- Taking us is a shot at the SEC. They took A&M and that market. No we arent at that level but if we get good, people in New Orleans will pay attention. When Texas and OU and TCU and whatever other L8 school paid the highest salaries to their players and ate undefeated, people in New Orleans will pay attention

- Going with Cincy is easy. They've had good success, get 25K-30K per game and its a good TV market. Tulane checks more boxes. Who is to say we cant elevate to be a good program and Cincy wont fall flat. Look to the future!

No one in New Orleans pays attention to Tulane. Nobody. They won't bring in any market.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

No one in New Orleans pays attention to Tulane. Nobody. They won't bring in any market.

Cincinnati wasn't selling out games even in the Brian Kelly/Pike/Collaros era and their stadium only sat 33,000. What market do they bring?

 

[Jpripper88]

Cincinnati wasn't selling out games even in the Brian Kelly/Pike/Collaros era and their stadium only sat 33,000. What market do they bring?

About 3 times as many people and a commitment to athletics?

Literally no one cares about Tulane and especially Tulane sports. I have family and friends in New Orleans, family who worked there, and friends, who went there. People don't care at all.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

That isn't the reason that Temple was never invited to the Big East, and you know it.

So says Joe the Reflexive Owl Hater.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Much the way years ago that the supposedly basketball-centric "Big" East wanted no part of John Chaney.

That's always been an absurd theory. There were better coaches in the Big East at the time. Nobody was afraid of John Chaney.

Now, that does not mean that the Big East treated the Owls fairly because I don't think it did. I think Villanova had a monopoly on the Philadelphia market and used it's relationships within the league to effectively blackball Temple. However, even in VU's case, I think the motivation was more greed than fear.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

About 3 times as many people and a commitment to athletics?

Literally no one cares about Tulane and especially Tulane sports. I have family and friends in New Orleans, family who worked there, and friends, who went there. People don't care at all.

I dont disagree but Tulane gives you access to a fertile recruiting area. Ohio kids arent going to the Big 12. Its too far.

I think they will go with Cincy also but I think Tulane has a better shot than people.think.

 

[Jpripper88]

I dont disagree but Tulane gives you access to a fertile recruiting area. Ohio kids arent going to the Big 12. Its too far.

I think they will go with Cincy also but I think Tulane has a better shot than people.think.

Tulane doesn't get recruits and wouldn't open up areas. If UT or OU want top recruits from LA they can go in and recruit them. Adding Tulane to their conference does nothing to change that for them or for the schools recruiting 2nd tier kids because Tulane doesn't even get those kids.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Tulane doesn't get recruits and wouldn't open up areas. If UT or OU want top recruits from LA they can go in and recruit them. Adding Tulane to their conference does nothing to change that for them or for the schools recruiting 2nd tier kids because Tulane doesn't even get those kids.

I'm noy talking about Texas or OU. What helps the L8 more? Tulane with access to the Louisiana recruting market or Cincinnati, much further away? Cincy is better program, yea, but will they be forever?

If I'm an L8 school, I probably want Houston, Tulane, UCF, and heck, maybe USF. All about recruiting.

 

[Jpripper88]

I'm noy talking about Texas or OU. What helps the L8 more? Tulane with access to the Louisiana recruting market or Cincinnati, much further away? Cincy is better program, yea, but will they be forever?

If I'm an L8 school, I probably want Houston, Tulane, UCF, and heck, maybe USF. All about recruiting.

Tulane doesn't open recruiting for schools who can already go in there and get better recruits than Tulane can get.

In the last 2 years Tulane got 2 recruits from LA with P5 offers. Most of their LA recruits had 0 other offers at all. Even the schools below UT and OU, like OSU already recruit better in LA than Tulane does. Having Tulane in your conference makes absolutely 0 difference in recruiting LA.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

That's always been an absurd theory. There were better coaches in the Big East at the time. Nobody was afraid of John Chaney.

Now, that does not mean that the Big East treated the Owls fairly because I don't think it did. I think Villanova had a monopoly on the Philadelphia market and used it's relationships within the league to effectively blackball Temple. However, even in VU's case, I think the motivation was more greed than fear.

Exactly. There are reasons that the Big East, most especially Villanova, wanted no parts of Temple in the conference. The notion that coaches like John Thompson or Louie Carnesecca or Jim Boeheim were ever afraid of John Chaney is absurd. Every coach in the Big East had multiple games every season against coaches every bit as good or even better than John Chaney.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

So says Joe the Reflexive Owl Hater.

You spelled that wrong. It's Joe the Guy Who Won't Let Your Ridiculously False Comments About Temple Go Without Commenting On Them.

I mean come on, you know better than to think that the reason Temple was never invited to the Big East was because of John Chaney.

And for the record, I do not hate Temple. Why one earth would any Pitt fan hate a school that has been literally irrelevant to Pitt for almost the entire existence of the school? I don't care about Temple. Which makes me just like almost everyone else, including, unfortunately for Temple fans, almost everyone in Temple's home city.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

It was somehow so much easier for the allegedly basketball-centric conference to upgrade to all-sports membership Rutgers, which had a woefully inept football program and hadn't done anything of consequence in basketball prior to or since its brief moment in the mid-1970s, than to grant the same to the school that, while it had at the time an equally-inept football program (which no one, least of all me, is disputing), but happened (and, by the way, continues) to have the sixth winningest college basketball program of all time . . . and then complain about what a drain the sport said school was limited to was on the conference. (Of course, as was allude to by another poster, Seton Hall idn't exercise a eto over ITS "neighbor".)

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It was somehow so much easier for the allegedly basketball-centric conference to upgrade to all-sports membership Rutgers, which had a woefully inept football program and hadn't done anything of consequence in basketball prior to or since its brief moment in the mid-1970s, than to grant the same to the school that, while it had at the time an equally-inept football program (which no one, least of all me, is disputing), but happened (and, by the way, continues) to have the sixth winningest college basketball program of all time . . . and then complain about what a drain the sport said school was limited to was on the conference. (Of course, as was allude to by another poster, Seton Hall idn't exercise a eto over ITS "neighbor".)

It was easier, for pretty much exactly why you say. Seton Hall didn't give a crap about Rutgers being added. Villanova did care about Temple being added. I mean you realize that what you said doesn't actually further your point, right?

Do you seriously believe that John Thompson was afraid of John Chaney? Do you seriously believe that Carnesecca or Boeheim were afraid of Chaney? Do you seriously believe that coaches at the bottom level Big East schools were sitting there saying to themselves "sure, we've got to play Georgetown and Syracuse and St. John's and Villanova but playing a John Chaney coached team would just be too much for us"? If you really believe that you need to take the cherry colored glasses off.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

It was easier, for pretty much exactly why you say. Seton Hall didn't give a crap about Rutgers being added. Villanova did care about Temple being added. I mean you realize that what you said doesn't actually further your point, right?

Do you seriously believe that John Thompson was afraid of John Chaney? Do you seriously believe that Carnesecca or Boeheim were afraid of Chaney? Do you seriously believe that coaches at the bottom level Big East schools were sitting there saying to themselves "sure, we've got to play Georgetown and Syracuse and St. John's and Villanova but playing a John Chaney coached team would just be too much for us"? If you really believe that you need to take the cherry colored glasses off.

John Thompson would likely have welcomed his friend John Chaney. I doubt that the others would have.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

WOW, your east division is bad as ACC coastal.

OK here is where you are wrong.

1. BYU is not being left out
2. So far UH has three supporters, TexA$$, TT and Texas Gov. and the Gov can’t black mail the two PrivateTexas schools. I can’t see a time where a 5th Texas program gets 8 votes
3. There will not be a traditional East/West or North/South Division.
4. No way all Texas programs end up in same division.
5. OU and TX will be in separate division, playing every year as cross rival. Game will be early in the season so aN OU/TX rematch will be more palatable.

Four being added

Number 11 BYU
Number 12 UC
NUMBER 13 CSU
NUMBER 14 Memphis or UCF

Here is an example of what the new division will look like

BIG 7
OU
OKST
WVU
Cincy
UCF/Memphis
TT
Baylor

GREAT 7
TX
TCU
Kansas
KST
ISU
BYU
CSU

Welcome!!! Nice to have you over here. You see the Big12 surviving another 5 years? I think Texas and/or Oklahoma takes off and/or the Big10 comes calling and poof there goes the Big12. That's my prediction. What's tours?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Tulane doesn't open recruiting for schools who can already go in there and get better recruits than Tulane can get.

In the last 2 years Tulane got 2 recruits from LA with P5 offers. Most of their LA recruits had 0 other offers at all. Even the schools below UT and OU, like OSU already recruit better in LA than Tulane does. Having Tulane in your conference makes absolutely 0 difference in recruiting LA.

The Big Ten took Rutgers!

 

[OriginalEther]

The Big Ten took Rutgers!

Rutgers was and still is light years ahead of Tulane.
Your argument for Tulane is that they are a punching bag. Is there a school that's ever been promoted to a better conference because they are cannon fodder?
And no, Rutgers is not an example.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

John Thompson would likely have welcomed his friend John Chaney. I doubt that the others would have.

I know it's hard to believe, but there is some middle ground between "welcomed" and "afraid of".

 

[topdecktiger]

The Big Ten took Rutgers!

Rutgers is the only school in the state. Tulane isn't. Big difference.

 

[raleighpanther]

The best place to get the real deal info on this is the WV site. Without going there, I'm guessing that they are predicting the four schools will be ND, Clemson, Florida St, and BYU.

If my guess is right, then you can bank on it. Their predictions are always accurate.

 

[raleighpanther]

The best place to get the real deal info on this is the WV site. Without going there, I'm guessing that they are predicting the four schools will be ND, Clemson, Florida St, and BYU.

If my guess is right, then you can bank on it. Their predictions are always accurate.

For anyone who is sarcasm challenged "that was a jo, I say, that was a joke, son."

 

[OriginalEther]

For anyone who is sarcasm challenged "that was a jo, I say, that was a joke, son."

Dude!

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Rutgers was and still is light years ahead of Tulane.
Your argument for Tulane is that they are a punching bag. Is there a school that's ever been promoted to a better conference because they are cannon fodder?
And no, Rutgers is not an example.

Rutgers is a piece of sh!t program and calling them a program os being kind. I see very little difference between them and Tulane.

Honestly, I think Temple is probably a better pick than Cincy if they get an OCS.

 

[OriginalEther]

Rutgers is a piece of sh!t program and calling them a program os being kind. I see very little difference between them and Tulane.

Honestly, I think Temple is probably a better pick than Cincy if they get an OCS.

Tulane is the type of program that Rutgers has always scheduled to get a win.

As for Temple, don't let your desire for an on campus stadium here cloud your judgement. Cincy may not be anything special, but no fan base is going to find Temple more appealing because Temple built a new stadium.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Tulane is the type of program that Rutgers has always scheduled to get a win.

As for Temple, don't let your desire for an on campus stadium here cloud your judgement. Cincy may not be anything special, but no fan base is going to find Temple more appealing because Temple built a new stadium.

Compare attendance for Cincy's best year ever (2009) vs Temple's best year ever. Throw out the inflated ND and PSU crowds and you wont see much difference.

Nobody in Cincinnati cares about UC football and their sparse attendance in a small stadium for really really good teams show that.

Nobody in Philadelphia cares about Temple football but there's a whole lot more "nobodies" in Philly than Cincy. If Temple gets an OCS, and league would have to be out of their mind to select the Cincinnati market over the Philadelphia market. That's just bad business.

 

[Jpripper88]

Compare attendance for Cincy's best year ever (2009) vs Temple's best year ever. Throw out the inflated ND and PSU crowds and you wont see much difference.

Nobody in Cincinnati cares about UC football and their sparse attendance in a small stadium for really really good teams show that.

Nobody in Philadelphia cares about Temple football but there's a whole lot more "nobodies" in Philly than Cincy. If Temple gets an OCS, and league would have to be out of their mind to select the Cincinnati market over the Philadelphia market. That's just bad business.

Every league in the country would put Cincinnati in over Temple.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Every league in the country would put Cincinnati in over Temple.

Not with an OCS. Philly market is just too big to pick over and its not like Cincy "delivers" the Cincinnati market. In that Facebook fan map a few years ago (when UC was closer ti their Glory Days and Temple still sucked), Temple was the #2 team in a handful on Philly zip codes. UC did not make the Top 3 in ANY Cincinnati zip code, not even the zip code that includes their campus. It was OSU, UK, and then either ND or Mich.

I'm saying both teams have terrible fan bases. All UC gives you is a 10 year history of good football but without a fanbase. Is 10 years worth of winning with absolutely no guarantee the winning will continue enough to get picked over a team that has access to many more eyeballs and where more B12 alums live?

 

[Jpripper88]

Not with an OCS. Philly market is just too big to pick over and its not like Cincy "delivers" the Cincinnati market. In that Facebook fan map a few years ago (when UC was closer ti their Glory Days and Temple still sucked), Temple was the #2 team in a handful on Philly zip codes. UC did not make the Top 3 in ANY Cincinnati zip code, not even the zip code that includes their campus. It was OSU, UK, and then either ND or Mich.

I'm saying both teams have terrible fan bases. All UC gives you is a 10 year history of good football but without a fanbase. Is 10 years worth of winning with absolutely no guarantee the winning will continue enough to get picked over a team that has access to many more eyeballs and where more B12 alums live?

Every league in the country.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Every league in the country.

OK. Sell me on Cincinnati over Temple. I will start you off. They've been better for the last 10 years or so including some excellent teams under Brian Kelly.

 

[OriginalEther]

OK. Sell me on Cincinnati over Temple. I will start you off. They've been better for the last 10 years or so including some excellent teams under Brian Kelly.

It's really not so much selling Cincy as it is not being Temple, though in the big 12 case Cincy has geography on their side.
Temple is synonymous with really, really bad football for as long I can remember. They're a PR nightmare. And despite your insistence, a new stadium ain't going to change that image a bit.

I'll put it another way....if Steve Pedersen were still the AD and he announced that Pitt has just scheduled a home and home series with Temple, would you be singing his praises for scheduling an excellent series, or crucifying him for scheduling a garbage series?

 

[mvk112]

Rutgers is a piece of sh!t program and calling them a program os being kind. I see very little difference between them and Tulane.

Honestly, I think Temple is probably a better pick than Cincy if they get an OCS.

Rutgers was so far above and beyond where Tulane is now. The last 8 years in the Big East, Rutgers was 65-37 with 7 bowl bids (5 bowl wins), and was in the top 25 four different years, peaking at #7 in the nation at one point. They had the holdover year in the AAC where they finished 6-7 after losing the Pinstripe Bowl to Notre Dame. There is also a big difference in market, with the expectation that Rutgers would help add NYC, and it did. Adding New Orleans isn't worth Tulane.

Tulane has been somewhat relevant two years out of the past 40, both seasons that Tommy Bowden coached them. Since he left, Tulane is 66-137 with 2 bowl appearances. If any major conference would add them, the conference would be a laughingstock.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It's really not so much selling Cincy as it is not being Temple, though in the big 12 case Cincy has geography on their side.
Temple is synonymous with really, really bad football for as long I can remember. They're a PR nightmare. And despite your insistence, a new stadium ain't going to change that image a bit.

I'll put it another way....if Steve Pedersen were still the AD and he announced that Pitt has just scheduled a home and home series with Temple, would you be singing his praises for scheduling an excellent series, or crucifying him for scheduling a garbage series?

Right now, Id rather have a home and home with Temple. More Pitt alums in the area, we recruit Eastern PA better than Western Ohio and going forward, I dont think Temple and Cincy football will be much different. Temple has invested enough to at least be average while I think UC will come back down to the norm after overperforming for 10 years.

So you are saying your sales pitch as Cincy over Temple is "hey, they sucked forever." I hope you have more than that.