And no defensive coaching is apparent at all.
This whole Capel coaching philosophy is just haphazard ball. No structure, no system, no coaching.
Blake Hinson- 27% shooting the last 6 games, 24% from 3
- Thread starter Vader_Storm
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And no defensive coaching is apparent at all.
This whole Capel coaching philosophy is just haphazard ball. No structure, no system, no coaching.
Everyone’s assuming that the players are executing the way they’re being told . With the rosters Pitt has had there’s not much threat to sit guys when they screw up .
Not everyone gets better , no matter how much they’re being coached up . Think Fede doesn’t get enough attention at practice ?
Faulting the coaches is fine and my biggest problem with them is in recruiting. They just don‘t have enough talent , but I understand that recruiting to Pitt isn’t as easy as we want to believe. Heck , they had trouble even getting a head coach who makes millions six yrs ago and when Howland left . Pitt isn’t the pinnacle of college bb .
They don’t have an inside game so your right , until those shots start falling they’re going to continue to lose .
The talent issue is far more relevant in FB. In college hoops since rosters are not that large you can be competitive with lower rated recruits who have a base that can be developed. Just check out the teams that were in the sweet 16 last year.
If he needs Duke level or near duke level recruits, then hes not a very good coach. And in 6 years theres no ONE big hes developed and in general this staffs development record is awful.
So maybe its recruiting because hes not idented kids with potential who CAN be devleoped. Either way as BB insider said you need a mix of high end guys, developed guys and mature transfers. Hes accomplished that in 1 of 6 years.
Does anyone else think @Vader_Storm should be completely embarrassed by this entire thread of boot licking? I’m embarrassed by proxy to even have to discuss this. He’s done an awful job 5/6 years. Excuse after excuse. He’s not a good coach. He’s not good at running a program. And Pitt bball will never be relevant again as long as he’s here. We’re just wasting our time at this point.
Eh I’m not going to rip Vader because he seems to be a good dude and generally provides interesting info And he’s right in the sense that Blake has missed a fair amount of open shots. The question is how much of that is the reside of the roster make up and lack of a system ( coaching) or Blake just not being very good this year.
Clearly I tend to agree with you more than him And I do think he tends to be overly defensive or the staff.
Nuanced take coming.
Capel’s a flawed coach. I think his biggest weakness has tended to come down to the fact that they don’t bring in enough players. Every year we enter the year with an open scholarship or two, someone gets hurt or in trouble or both, and we end up with only eight or nine available players. It’s bad roster management, and it’s happened every year.
I do think he’s shown growth in the way he wants to run his offense. Early on, it felt like he just wanted to collect guys who had good frames, athletic kids who just could not shoot it even a little bit. X, Trey, Femi, Toney, even Champagnie. Now, I think you’ve seen growth in having guys 1-4 who can actually present as a shooting threat. We are not shooting well right now, but it’s clear that there’s been a shift in the way the roster is composed that I think has been positive and more along the lines that modern basketball is played.
I do think the staff is good at evaluating talent, and that’s obviously led by Capel. I think they’re better at evaluating than they are at developing. You go back since he got the job, and you can find a lot of guys who took giant leaps forward in their first year under Capel. Hinson, JWF, Gueye, Burton, even Elliott and Nelly had career years here. Hell, even Murphy and Hamilton had career years here.
Which makes me wonder…I don’t know if it’s something about Capel’s coaching style, or a sheer inability to develop guys, or whether it’s a remnant of spending so much time in the one and done world, but I almost wonder if they shouldn’t fully shift their style almost completely to, like, grad transfers, one-year eligibility guys, coach ‘em for a year, and then cycle in new guys every year and hope to get JWF or Gueye sort of leaps forward from enough of them to be good. I feel like this staff has proven that they can’t have a foot in both buckets balancing between older transfers and freshmen. Feels like they’ve gotta just do it with older guys.
I think you can definitely sell Pittsburgh and Pitt basketball to 23 year olds. We’ll give you NIL, you’re 23 and don’t want to be living in a college town anymore, maybe your girlfriend’s graduating too and it’s easier to find an adult job in Pittsburgh than it is in a college town. Maybe they should just pivot to that fully and completely and try to replicate 2022-23 forever. If they get the opportunity.
Capel’s a flawed coach. I think his biggest weakness has tended to come down to the fact that they don’t bring in enough players. Every year we enter the year with an open scholarship or two, someone gets hurt or in trouble or both, and we end up with only eight or nine available players. It’s bad roster management, and it’s happened every year.
I do think he’s shown growth in the way he wants to run his offense. Early on, it felt like he just wanted to collect guys who had good frames, athletic kids who just could not shoot it even a little bit. X, Trey, Femi, Toney, even Champagnie. Now, I think you’ve seen growth in having guys 1-4 who can actually present as a shooting threat. We are not shooting well right now, but it’s clear that there’s been a shift in the way the roster is composed that I think has been positive and more along the lines that modern basketball is played.
I do think the staff is good at evaluating talent, and that’s obviously led by Capel. I think they’re better at evaluating than they are at developing. You go back since he got the job, and you can find a lot of guys who took giant leaps forward in their first year under Capel. Hinson, JWF, Gueye, Burton, even Elliott and Nelly had career years here. Hell, even Murphy and Hamilton had career years here.
Which makes me wonder…I don’t know if it’s something about Capel’s coaching style, or a sheer inability to develop guys, or whether it’s a remnant of spending so much time in the one and done world, but I almost wonder if they shouldn’t fully shift their style almost completely to, like, grad transfers, one-year eligibility guys, coach ‘em for a year, and then cycle in new guys every year and hope to get JWF or Gueye sort of leaps forward from enough of them to be good. I feel like this staff has proven that they can’t have a foot in both buckets balancing between older transfers and freshmen. Feels like they’ve gotta just do it with older guys.
I think you can definitely sell Pittsburgh and Pitt basketball to 23 year olds. We’ll give you NIL, you’re 23 and don’t want to be living in a college town anymore, maybe your girlfriend’s graduating too and it’s easier to find an adult job in Pittsburgh than it is in a college town. Maybe they should just pivot to that fully and completely and try to replicate 2022-23 forever. If they get the opportunity.
I suggest you go back and watch the Syracuse game again.
Even though the shots weren't falling for Pitt, I thought they played reasonably well (or within their capability) for the first 14 minutes or so. However, when Syracuse started to pull away, some shots became forced, shot selection became more questionable, and at times ridiculous. I also thought the effort on the defensive end began to wane as the game progressed.
Are you suggesting a coach can't rein this in during the course of a game?
Again, the issue is bigger than missing open shots from beyond the arc. It's how they respond to it. I understand this team is limited in talent in the front court, so they are going to depend heavily on their shooters making some shots to win games. But if open shots aren't falling, and you are going to give your shooters the green light to keep shooting, maybe make shot selection more of a priority.
A team is what it is at this point in the season. It's one thing for a coach to be out of answers. The thing with Capel is that sometimes he doesn't even appear to be looking for any.
Anyone who watches Pitt basketball knows this coach has been terrible, except for one year out of 6. That's obvious. He's not bringing in talent, and the talent that was supposedly identified by the "experts" did not meet expectations. And his coaching and system are haphazard and lacking direction. The people who call themselves experts on this board with rating these kids may need to take a step back and reevaluate their metrics. Other than Lowe, and he's a work in progress, we really have minimal talent. The hype was overdone and misplaced, especially with Bub.
Forget all of the metrics and player evaluations. We know what we're seeing, and much of the decline of this program can be attributed to the 2 coaches we've had since Dixon left. Neither are worth the money they were or are getting paid.
He did a good job in year 1 getting to 3-15, beating NCAAT Saint Louis and having competitive losses.
I really think this 'Pitt is hard to recruit to' thing is way overblown. Maybe I have a different perspective since I live in NJ and Pitt was a destination school for me. But it's a nice city with the draw of having several professional sports teams. Obviously, NIL is a big issue now and we're not going to bring in 5* recruits year-in and year-out, but I don't see the city or campus and facilities being something that would turn off recruits. We should be able to recruit as well as most Power 5 schools.
There’s been an uptick in recruiting , but you need 8 solid pieces not 2 or 3 . Last yr they had enough quality players this yr it’s obvious they don’t .
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It has nothing to do with the city it has to do with the administration not willing to do what it takes to win . Pitt had it rolling in the late 70’s until they disbanded the Golden Panthers .Look at the Bb and rosters in those yrs they were as talented as anyone in the country . They’ve suspended a key Bb player for a yr for smoking pot , they turned themselves into the NCAA to save a few dollars , They FORCED JD OUT , and this yr they kicked Dior out just before school started . Did I mention JD !
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The last three years of the 70s the Pitt basketball team went a combined 40-43 overall and 12-18 in conference games.
The notion that those teams, whose best conference finish was tied for 3rd, were as talented as anyone in the country might be the silliest thing anyone has ever posted on this board.
Now if you were talking about football, yeah, absolutely. That's a completely different story. But basketball? No.
The Golden Panthers helped the Panthers get Charles Smith , D Gore , J Lane , B Shorter etc and gave a guy who ended up at Villanova a bag of cash .
All of those players would’ve been 5* in todays rankings and were considered as some of the top (10) recruits in the country and it wasn’t do to the excellent history of Pitt bb !
Thinking that those teams weren’t that talented shows me how uniformed you are even though you know everything .. Had Pitt been coached by anyone other that Paul Evans those teams could’ve won a national championship .
86/87 2nd in BE 12th in final national poll
87/88 1st in BE ( 12-4 ) 8th in final national poll
Pitt never had a better center than Charles Smith
Pitt never had a better rebounder than Jerome Lane
D Gore was at times was a spectacular and unstoppable player
Rod Brookin was one of Pitts best ever sharp shooters
Mike Goodson was a very solid Pg .
You’re right they weren’t that good !
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You are saying that Capel is making millions as a Head basketball Coach in the ACC and he does not know how to work a player out of a shooting slump or improve foul shooting, just unbelievable.
That was my thought as well. Capel is making millions. That's his job to coach these kids to help them get out of shooting slumps and improve their games. If they don't improve no matter what amount of coaching they get, sit them on the bench and play someone else. It also indicates Capel isn't doing his job if he can't help develop and improve them.
If you think good coaching staff's don't address poor shooting and slumps I don't know what to tell you...
How? A kid can either shoot or he cant. It isn't something you coach at this level. You can coach shot selection, moving without the ball better, using screens better but not the physical shot.
Charles Smith was a freshman in 84-85, Demetreus Gore in the same year, Jerome Lane in 85-86, Brian Shorter in 87-88 (although he had to sit out that year), Doug West, the guy who ended up at Villanova, in 86-87, Rod Brookin in 86-87, and Mike Goodson (really, Mike Goodson is the next guy on your list?) in 85-86.
The fact that you think that any of those guys are proof that Pitt basketball was as talented as anyone in the country in the late 70s is typical for you.
The best two players on the late 70s teams were Larry Harris and Sam Clancy. I don't know about Harris, but it didn't take a bag of cash from the Golden Panthers to get Clancy to come to Pitt.
First off who’s talking about teams in the 70’s ?
But while we’re there , both Larry Harris and Sam were great players for Pitt , but neither could carry Charles Smiths jock strap . Sam was a brute and went the right direction by playing professional Fb . Larry Harris was the second smoothest Panther I ever saw play behind Billy Knight , who was the best Pitt Bb I ever saw play , but Larry never player a game in the NBA after being drafted in 4th round . Pitt really wasn’t a player for top talent until they got Curtis Aiken , a Parade All American out of Buffalo in 83 . The Golden Panthers focus was on football not basketball in the 70’s . So there were no bags full of cash being handed out then to Bb players at Pitt .( both Billy Knight and Sam Clancy were local kids as was Melvin Bennett who had he stayed in college would’ve been a special player )
All Charles Smith did was become the 3rd pick in the NBA draft and make the all rookie team in his 10yr professional career Bad knees limited his career .
Jerome Lane was thought highly enough to be a first round selection by Denver .
What Pitt Bb team ever had two first round draft NBA picks playing on it at the same time ? But of course you’re right they weren’t more talented ….not !
Oops, I'm sorry, it was this guy with the handle of Fsgolfdr who was talking about the late 70s. Clearly someone completely different than you. My bad.
Proves once again that shooting can and should be coached and it usually produces significant results. Players are making the shots but coaches must have the ability to teach and coach and improve the players. We haven't had that for a while at Pitt...last 8 years to be exact.
Honest to god, watching this Duke game; Hinson bailing Pitt out and possibly winning this game single handedly for Pitt you’re such a god damn loser for trying to blame him for Jeff Capel’s failed tenure Vader
Plz hush and enjoy the win. Geeezzzzz you're a mess
I’m going to have drinks. Not sure why you felt the need to call me out when I call out an idiot who blamed all of Pitt’s struggles on a dude who has played his heart out for 2 years for the Panthers. I mean almost literally with his blood disorder
No I am calling out Vader’s idiocy. We all know Hinson is streaky. Yet he tried to blame Pitt 1-5 solely at his feet. Dumb. Don’t care. We won, I’m drinking
Let's all savor this win. Last win @ Duke was 1979. Wow
I am savoring, drinking, enjoying and loving. Still wanna call out idiocy that blames our 2nd best player for all struggles
If you want to blame Capel for one (two) things this year. It's knowing that we have a streaky shooting leader who needs literal taunting from the opponents to "get up" for a game, while also knowing his only true point guard would need consistency around him to grow into his role to have any chance of the team being successful.
Truth be told, it's a miracle that we're 11-7 with half the year being played without knowing who would be our consistent PG.
Truth be told, it's a miracle that we're 11-7 with half the year being played without knowing who would be our consistent PG.
I’m not blaming Capel for anything. I think he was dealt a shitty hand if he didn’t know Dior was getting kicked off.
However, blaming our best shooter who was key in getting 2 tourney wins last year because he was streaky like last year is a shitty thing to do
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