Breakdown of the offense

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I’d love for someone to do a breakdown of what got us going last night on offense in the second half. We ran the same play over and over yet it continually worked. Obviously, I’ve voiced my concerns over certain aspects of Capel’s tenure, but one thing I love is the NBA concept of spacing and calling something until they stop you.

Seemed like it was an X pass to MURPH up top, x to corner off a double, MURPH pass to Trey, flare screen/ball screen from the 5. Seem right?

 

[DiehardPanther]

I’d love for someone to do a breakdown of what got us going last night on offense in the second half. We ran the same play over and over yet it continually worked. Obviously, I’ve voiced my concerns over certain aspects of Capel’s tenure, but one thing I love is the NBA concept of spacing and calling something until they stop you.

Seemed like it was an X pass to MURPH up top, x to corner off a double, MURPH pass to Trey, flare screen/ball screen from the 5. Seem right?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

View embedded media

I hope we can be a little more creative than coach Herman Boone LOL

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I’d love for someone to do a breakdown of what got us going last night on offense in the second half. We ran the same play over and over yet it continually worked. Obviously, I’ve voiced my concerns over certain aspects of Capel’s tenure, but one thing I love is the NBA concept of spacing and calling something until they stop you.

Seemed like it was an X pass to MURPH up top, x to corner off a double, MURPH pass to Trey, flare screen/ball screen from the 5. Seem right?

I have noticed Pitt run the following NBA style plays that it seems almost everyone runs now:
- More generic high pick and roll (frequently), especially with flow away
- Horns (more rarely)
- "Spain" double pick and roll/pick and pop
- Floppy elbow action, both single and double screened. Murphy could make a killing off that.

On defense I noticed we switched almost every screen EXCEPT with Terrell Brown. In fact I bet Andy Toole realized that about 3 minutes into the game but couldn't really exploit it very much as the game wore on because our 1-4 guys were all good enough defenders against RMU type talent that switching everything worked well. It's definitely an adjustment for Pitt fans from the Dixon preference for the hard hedge.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I have noticed Pitt run the following NBA style plays that it seems almost everyone runs now:
- More generic high pick and roll (frequently), especially with flow away
- Horns (more rarely)
- "Spain" double pick and roll/pick and pop
- Floppy elbow action, both single and double screened. Murphy could make a killing off that.

On defense I noticed we switched almost every screen EXCEPT with Terrell Brown. In fact I bet Andy Toole realized that about 3 minutes into the game but couldn't really exploit it very much as the game wore on because our 1-4 guys were all good enough defenders against RMU type talent that switching everything worked well. It's definitely an adjustment for Pitt fans from the Dixon preference for the hard hedge.

I would’ve preferred a hard hedge to a switch on the last play of our 2011 big east tournament

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I would’ve preferred a hard hedge to a switch on the last play of our 2011 big east tournament

Sure. I'd prefer (and I think Capel agrees) mixing soft hedge, hard hedge, switch, and double based on the talent on the floor. It shouldn't be one size fits all unless you're the 2017 Golden State Warriors or something.

 

[wbrpanther]

I’d love for someone to do a breakdown of what got us going last night on offense in the second half. We ran the same play over and over yet it continually worked. Obviously, I’ve voiced my concerns over certain aspects of Capel’s tenure, but one thing I love is the NBA concept of spacing and calling something until they stop you.

Seemed like it was an X pass to MURPH up top, x to corner off a double, MURPH pass to Trey, flare screen/ball screen from the 5. Seem right?

I don't know crap about Xes and Os and don't pretend to. But what I saw many times was Trey driving the right lane with Murph set up on the side and when Murph's man dropped off to double team Trey's drive, Trey kicked it out. When Murph's man stayed home Trey took it to the hoop usually against only one man.

That type of recognition wasn't there earlier and is something X has to pick up.

 

[pittjas]

I’d love for someone to do a breakdown of what got us going last night on offense in the second half. We ran the same play over and over yet it continually worked. Obviously, I’ve voiced my concerns over certain aspects of Capel’s tenure, but one thing I love is the NBA concept of spacing and calling something until they stop you.

Seemed like it was an X pass to MURPH up top, x to corner off a double, MURPH pass to Trey, flare screen/ball screen from the 5. Seem right?

Yeah. If you defend it the way they did, it’s pretty much unstoppable. You have Trey coming downhill hard off the screen, and Murph in the corner. Not many guys in the country can guard Trey 1 on 1 in open space, but the D’s help would have to come off Murphy. So it’s either a layup/dunk by Trey or wide open 3 for Murph.

The only problem is most teams will double the ball screens when Trey and X have the ball as they have struggled against that and it gets them to make bad decisions or at least gets the ball out of their hands.

 

[4upmc]

I’d love for someone to do a breakdown of what got us going last night on offense in the second half. We ran the same play over and over yet it continually worked. Obviously, I’ve voiced my concerns over certain aspects of Capel’s tenure, but one thing I love is the NBA concept of spacing and calling something until they stop you.

Seemed like it was an X pass to MURPH up top, x to corner off a double, MURPH pass to Trey, flare screen/ball screen from the 5. Seem right?

I didn’t see all of the game but in simple terms (I know u prob know the more intricate details but many here don’t)...

On the Trey drives in the 2nd half you had the high ball screen by Brown. Then you had Murphy in the right corner ready for the 3. What’s nice about this simple set is the only strong side help available is from Murphy’s man so it’s pick your poison. If Murphy’s man helps on Treys drive he can kick it out to Murphy for the open 3. I’m surprised RMU didn’t make any adjustments such as having Browns man double Trey on the screen just to take the ball out of Treys hands and make the pass go to Brown where he would have to make a decision. Brown played great but I would like to see him roll harder to the hoop after the setting screen.

We ran a nice baseline inbounds play in the first half to get Murphy an open J. But I would like to see us run more sets to get him open looks especially in games when he is really hot. Because the majority of his looks are from kicks outs off penetration. It does not have to be complicated we could run some pin down screens for him. And run him of single doubles to get open looks. Mark Price ran some of these easy sets for Murphy at UNC Charlotte and it worked pretty well.

As far as running the same play over and over I agree with the NBA philosophy that you run it until they prove they can stop it.

 

[gary2]

I’d love for someone to do a breakdown of what got us going last night on offense in the second half. We ran the same play over and over yet it continually worked. Obviously, I’ve voiced my concerns over certain aspects of Capel’s tenure, but one thing I love is the NBA concept of spacing and calling something until they stop you.

Seemed like it was an X pass to MURPH up top, x to corner off a double, MURPH pass to Trey, flare screen/ball screen from the 5. Seem right?

Trey was just vastly superior to anyone guarding him. Don't count on seeing that every night.

The details of how that occurred are for the most part, meaningless.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

I would’ve preferred a hard hedge to a switch on the last play of our 2011 big east tournament

Wannamaker let’s mcgee cover kemba. Sheesh

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Trey was just vastly superior to anyone guarding him. Don't count on seeing that every night.

The details of how that occurred are for the most part, meaningless.

Sure, I’m just trying to get some basketball discussion though since I “hate capel” I figured I’d try to get some compliments in on the strategy from last night. Plus, Trey is pretty good. We should still get him 1 on 1.

 

[Tonyt66]

I'm trying to figure out why Big Ham didn't play. Did anyone hear anything?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I'm trying to figure out why Big Ham didn't play. Did anyone hear anything?

I would imagine it’s the emergence of TB and that RMU was small. Plus Hamilton needs to have a limited role on this team for us to be successful imo. He isn’t great

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I’d love for someone to do a breakdown of what got us going last night on offense in the second half. We ran the same play over and over yet it continually worked. Obviously, I’ve voiced my concerns over certain aspects of Capel’s tenure, but one thing I love is the NBA concept of spacing and calling something until they stop you.

Seemed like it was an X pass to MURPH up top, x to corner off a double, MURPH pass to Trey, flare screen/ball screen from the 5. Seem right?

I’ll break it down -

trey played under control and he’s the most talented player

our defense greatly improved - which fed our offense

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I’ll break it down -

trey played under control and he’s the most talented player

our defense greatly improved - which fed our offense

That’s more of a summary than a breakdown.

 

[rockypanther]

Sure, I’m just trying to get some basketball discussion though since I “hate capel” I figured I’d try to get some compliments in on the strategy from last night. Plus, Trey is pretty good. We should still get him 1 on 1.

I am busy coaching 3 teams myself right now otherwise I would love to breakdown our offense.

I haven’t seen much of Horns if any. I don’t think we have the players for it. There isn’t any type of 4 or 5 put motion with basket cuts or dribble drive handoffs. This would work really well with our players.

I see a lot of screen downs and players coming up to receive a high pass and then you have a few options like the floppy elbow, pin down screens, or a pass to the wing to try to get an open 3 point shot. The Cleveland Cavaliers have done this very well. But we don’t have Kevin Love.

There seems to be less than 3 offensive sets I have seen. Most actually result in the ball just getting passed back to Trey and X at the top of the key and they just decide what they want.

But the players seem to have concepts and actions to run based on what the defense presents. Capel wants an open system. I just don’t think we have enough experience and too much youth. They aren’t seeing things well and are moving too quick and not giving anytime for a defense to get out of position to take advantage.

A difference I see from last year is that X is only going to the basket and penetrating at one fast gear rather than last year which he would change speeds to keep his defender more in his hip and off balance. Also, I see more teams keeping help in the middle to challenge X more than last season.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

That’s more of a summary than a breakdown.

You’re welcome

I doesn’t take a lot of words to make a point.
Many would be well served to remember it

 

[4upmc]

You’re welcome

I doesn’t take a lot of words to make a point.
Many would be well served to remember it

seems he was just looking to have a little basketball Xs and Os talk. If you have no interest in the topic just ignore it.

 

[Tonyt66]

I would imagine it’s the emergence of TB and that RMU was small. Plus Hamilton needs to have a limited role on this team for us to be successful imo. He isn’t great

I agree he's not great but with that small sample of him so far he showed that he is very athletic and could have played with with those guys. TB is not athletic at all his vertical movement is slow he has a long wingspan which helps them a lot but that's okay because we need that but IMO Ham could've helped, how much I don't know!
IMO this is the time to use him because you know and I know they're going to need him and that body in the ACC so JC should be getting him ready now.
IMO they will get smoked with that small lineup in the ACC.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

seems he was just looking to have a little basketball Xs and Os talk. If you have no interest in the topic just ignore it.

I answered his query

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I am busy coaching 3 teams myself right now otherwise I would love to breakdown our offense.

I haven’t seen much of Horns if any. I don’t think we have the players for it. There isn’t any type of 4 or 5 put motion with basket cuts or dribble drive handoffs. This would work really well with our players.

I see a lot of screen downs and players coming up to receive a high pass and then you have a few options like the floppy elbow, pin down screens, or a pass to the wing to try to get an open 3 point shot. The Cleveland Cavaliers have done this very well. But we don’t have Kevin Love.

There seems to be less than 3 offensive sets I have seen. Most actually result in the ball just getting passed back to Trey and X at the top of the key and they just decide what they want.

But the players seem to have concepts and actions to run based on what the defense presents. Capel wants an open system. I just don’t think we have enough experience and too much youth. They aren’t seeing things well and are moving too quick and not giving anytime for a defense to get out of position to take advantage.

A difference I see from last year is that X is only going to the basket and penetrating at one fast gear rather than last year which he would change speeds to keep his defender more in his hip and off balance. Also, I see more teams keeping help in the middle to challenge X more than last season.

What level do you coach that you’re using horns sets?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I hope we can be a little more creative than coach Herman Boone LOL

What are you talking about? Name me one other coach that would run a Fake 23 Blast with a Backside George Reverse from their own 25 yard line on the last play of the game when they need to score a touchdown to win.

Anyone can call for a Hail Mary or a Hook and Lateral play, but no one expects a Fake 23 Blast with a Backside George Reverse! You can't get any more creative than that!

 

[4upmc]

Speaking of Horns sets I love all you can run from these sets. Every NBA team runs some version of it. Sure it’s ideal to have good passing bigs with many versions of this. But Pitt could still thrive in different versions of Horns such Dribble Drag Pin Downs. Doc Rivers used this a ton with JJ Redick and Chris Paul.

Murphy would be ideal in the Redick role coming off pin downs for J’s and when the D is aggressive the pin downs turn into short pull up J’s. And Trey could do well as he can curl to the hoop instead of settling for the J off the pin downs. What’s nice in this version is the bigs don’t really have to handle the ball or pass...mainly just screen. Check out the first part of the video



In a more traditional horns set X and Trey could do well using the double high ball screen. We know they are both right handed drivers so put Murphy in the right corner to give them space. And have the more mobile Forwards such as Tony and Champ as the screen setter on the right elbow as thats prob the way X and Trey drive 85 to 90% of the time.

And as a change up we could throw it into the big at the elbow with the wing going back door for a layup. Or the opposite big diving to the hoop for the high low.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Speaking of Horns sets I love all you can run from these sets. Every NBA team runs some version of it. Sure it’s ideal to have good passing bigs with many versions of this. But Pitt could still thrive in different versions of Horns such Dribble Drag Pin Downs. Doc Rivers used this a ton with JJ Redick and Chris Paul.

Murphy would be ideal in the Redick role coming off pin downs for J’s and when the D is aggressive the pin downs turn into short pull up J’s. And Trey could do well as he can curl to the hoop instead of settling for the J off the pin downs. What’s nice in this version is the bigs don’t really have to handle the ball or pass...mainly just screen. Check out the first part of the video

View embedded media

In a more traditional horns set X and Trey could do well using the double high ball screen. We know they are both right handed drivers so put Murphy in the right corner to give them space. And have the more mobile Forwards such as Tony and Champ as the screen setter on the right elbow as thats prob the way X and Trey drive 85 to 90% of the time.

And as a change up we could throw it into the big at the elbow with the wing going back door for a layup. Or the opposite big diving to the hoop for the high low.

What’s wrong with hitting Toney or Champagnie in the horns set and making the bigs screeners the entire time? Makes you a little bit predictable but by the ACC season every team knows the 10-12 sets you run anyways.

 

[PittGlory]

Speaking of Horns sets I love all you can run from these sets. Every NBA team runs some version of it. Sure it’s ideal to have good passing bigs with many versions of this. But Pitt could still thrive in different versions of Horns such Dribble Drag Pin Downs. Doc Rivers used this a ton with JJ Redick and Chris Paul.

Murphy would be ideal in the Redick role coming off pin downs for J’s and when the D is aggressive the pin downs turn into short pull up J’s. And Trey could do well as he can curl to the hoop instead of settling for the J off the pin downs. What’s nice in this version is the bigs don’t really have to handle the ball or pass...mainly just screen. Check out the first part of the video

View embedded media

In a more traditional horns set X and Trey could do well using the double high ball screen. We know they are both right handed drivers so put Murphy in the right corner to give them space. And have the more mobile Forwards such as Tony and Champ as the screen setter on the right elbow as thats prob the way X and Trey drive 85 to 90% of the time.

And as a change up we could throw it into the big at the elbow with the wing going back door for a layup. Or the opposite big diving to the hoop for the high low.

Damn you guys are good!! I assume Stallings never reached out to you and in fact may have had you blackballed from the Pete

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Damn you guys are good!! I assume Stallings never reached out to you and in fact may have had you blackballed from the Pete

He actually wrote me a hand written letter asking for my support. I’ll post it here sometime if I can find it. But I believe that may have found the trash

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

He actually wrote me a hand written letter asking for my support. I’ll post it here sometime if I can find it. But I believe that may have found the trash

Did it have gravy stains on the paper?
If not I doubt the authenticity

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Did it have gravy stains on the paper?
If not I doubt the authenticity

I don’t remember that was 3 cities ago. It was at least on his Pitt letterhead

 

[DiehardPanther]

Did it have gravy stains on the paper?
If not I doubt the authenticity

I am thinking drool from his nap would provide better evidence.

 

[Ski11585]

Speaking of Horns sets I love all you can run from these sets. Every NBA team runs some version of it. Sure it’s ideal to have good passing bigs with many versions of this. But Pitt could still thrive in different versions of Horns such Dribble Drag Pin Downs. Doc Rivers used this a ton with JJ Redick and Chris Paul.

Murphy would be ideal in the Redick role coming off pin downs for J’s and when the D is aggressive the pin downs turn into short pull up J’s. And Trey could do well as he can curl to the hoop instead of settling for the J off the pin downs. What’s nice in this version is the bigs don’t really have to handle the ball or pass...mainly just screen. Check out the first part of the video

View embedded media

In a more traditional horns set X and Trey could do well using the double high ball screen. We know they are both right handed drivers so put Murphy in the right corner to give them space. And have the more mobile Forwards such as Tony and Champ as the screen setter on the right elbow as thats prob the way X and Trey drive 85 to 90% of the time.

And as a change up we could throw it into the big at the elbow with the wing going back door for a layup. Or the opposite big diving to the hoop for the high low.

But... I thought NBA teams didn’t run offenses!!!!

 

[PittGlory]

Did it have gravy stains on the paper?
If not I doubt the authenticity

Or drool
From his snooze

 

[4upmc]

What’s wrong with hitting Toney or Champagnie in the horns set and making the bigs screeners the entire time? Makes you a little bit predictable but by the ACC season every team knows the 10-12 sets you run anyways.

In my last paragraph I said as a change up you can throw it inside and use a back door from the wing or have the 2nd big dive to to hoop for the high low. But I was just showing how you can run simple actions out of horns because as you know up until this point JC has kept our O very basic. However there are a million counters you can run for every action you have out of a horns set. It’s all based on what you think your players can learn.

 

[4upmc]

But... I thought NBA teams didn’t run offenses!!!!

haha true.

Yep it’s funny how many ppl think this but as you know they run tons of actions. Just tonight in the Lakers game I counted 6 times they ran different actions out of a horns set. In their title runs Golden States O could be a thing of beauty many nights as they ran a million and one actions. And just when you think you had an answer they had a counter. Of course it helped having KD, Steph and Clay.

 

[Chescat]

I don't know crap about Xes and Os and don't pretend to. But what I saw many times was Trey driving the right lane with Murph set up on the side and when Murph's man dropped off to double team Trey's drive, Trey kicked it out. When Murph's man stayed home Trey took it to the hoop usually against only one man.

That type of recognition wasn't there earlier and is something X has to pick up.

LOL...yes you do. You just described what happens in a basic pick and roll.
A big comes out high, sets a pick and rolls to the hoop. If the D switches the
big is now being guarded by a guard, the offensive guard with the ball is
now one on with the defensive big. He has a few options; take it the hole,
hit his big who rolls to the hoop, pull up off the drive and shoot or dish,
or if help comes from the side as you described, kick it out for the jumper

Good call WBRpanther...you're now ready to coach!

 

[Chescat]

I have noticed Pitt run the following NBA style plays that it seems almost everyone runs now:
- More generic high pick and roll (frequently), especially with flow away
- Horns (more rarely)
- "Spain" double pick and roll/pick and pop
- Floppy elbow action, both single and double screened. Murphy could make a killing off that.

On defense I noticed we switched almost every screen EXCEPT with Terrell Brown. In fact I bet Andy Toole realized that about 3 minutes into the game but couldn't really exploit it very much as the game wore on because our 1-4 guys were all good enough defenders against RMU type talent that switching everything worked well. It's definitely an adjustment for Pitt fans from the Dixon preference for the hard hedge.

Excellent description!

 

[rockypanther]

What level do you coach that you’re using horns sets?

Middle School. But I stopped using it because my players weren’t executing the screens well enough. But if I coached college I would. The best play by far is the elevator screen out of Horns. That’s how Klay and Steph get open shots at the top. I mostly use 4 out and 1 in the post and mix in psss and basket cuts from the wing and high post. I also use a lot of dribble drive handoffs. If the handoff guy does it right then he dribbles into the defender and it becomes a natural screen. I don’t want to do more than 3 total handoffs. I have used Triangle but only when I had a decent post and 2 strong 3 point shooters,

But one way I generate a lot of offense is with a 1-2-2 or 1-3-1 trap from 3/4 court. Pitt did that last year with X playing the 1 and then forcing the other team to pass to the middle where Trey got a bunch of steals. I wish Capel would use that again more this year because it would with X and his confidence and would put Toney in transition where he is at his best.

Disclaimer: I have coached school and AAU basketball. I am not a ACC coach making over 3 million a year. So Pitt should figure out more effective ways than I can to get the ball moving and players using screens to get closer rather than further from the basket for shots in rythmn. It would cause less dribbling into the lane for low percentage shots and less isolation 1 on 1 play. Especially because you will see this year other teams will pack the lane more until we can hits perimeter shots. And if Murphy is the only one then the defense will play a box and 1.

 

[rockypanther]

LOL...yes you do. You just described what happens in a basic pick and roll.
A big comes out high, sets a pick and rolls to the hoop. If the D switches the
big is now being guarded by a guard, the offensive guard with the ball is
now one on with the defensive big. He has a few options; take it the hole,
hit his big who rolls to the hoop, pull up off the drive and shoot or dish,
or if help comes from the side as you described, kick it out for the jumper

Good call WBRpanther...you're now ready to coach!

Add in my favorite action if they switch the screen which is the big guy doing a slip screen to the basket.

 

[rockypanther]

haha true.

Yep it’s funny how many ppl think this but as you know they run tons of actions. Just tonight in the Lakers game I counted 6 times they ran different actions out of a horns set. In their title runs Golden States O could be a thing of beauty many nights as they ran a million and one actions. And just when you think you had an answer they had a counter. Of course it helped having KD, Steph and Clay.

Watch Boston, Philly, Golden State, and San Antonio and you will see beautiful sets and plays.

 

[Chescat]

I’d love for someone to do a breakdown of what got us going last night on offense in the second half. We ran the same play over and over yet it continually worked. Obviously, I’ve voiced my concerns over certain aspects of Capel’s tenure, but one thing I love is the NBA concept of spacing and calling something until they stop you.

Seemed like it was an X pass to MURPH up top, x to corner off a double, MURPH pass to Trey, flare screen/ball screen from the 5. Seem right?

First of all you already had some very good explanations to your question
in previous posts.
Something I'll add is what we did against RMU that we didn't do against
Nicholls St.

Against Nicholls both X and Trey were getting double teamed right over
half court line. Nicholls kept us out of our normal set, and to make matters
worse , both X and Trey tried to dribble through and around it and got
themselves caught. They were way to aggressive with their dribble
drives, didn't look up, and weren't given any outlets by their team mates.
This gave us a total out of kilter offense and was a major reason for the
loss....at least on the offensive side.

RMU...totally different story. First, You can bet your bottom dollar Capel drilled
them over and over on this in practice. It was easy to see how Trey was
slowing down, looking up, and taking what was there. It wasn't overly
aggressive driving. He even hit the open man when it wasn't there for him.
X had a not so good first half as he was dribbling through and around
again when it wasn't there. He even tried to dribble through the middle
of a double team and of course lost the ball. My guess is Capel handled
this at half time, because he played with focus in the second half. Basically
he took what was there, didn't force the dribble drive, and gave it up
instead of forcing it. It looked to me like he was more concerned with
getting his team mates involved, and played more like a true pg.
Let's see friday...my guess is Capel is trying to re make X's game somewhat.