Carr, Stevenson, Stewart, Davis is the best.....

[Joe the Panther Fan]

If you care to go back and compare the last 2 years Whirly, you’ll find that we were competitive in more games last year than the year before.

That's an interesting proposition, and one we can actually test. Again, I agree with you that it depends on what is and is not a competitive game. The definition I used was two possession games, games decided by six points or less (plus all games that went into overtime) and games decided by seven points or more.

And if you look at those numbers you find that, indeed, we were in more competitive games last season than we were the year before. But not for the reason you seem to think. We played 14 two possession games last year and only 10 the year before. And the reason for that is that the year before we crushed a lot more teams than we did last year.

Last year we were 8-6, a .571 winning percentage, in competitive games. The year before we were 6-4, a .600 winning percentage in those games. But the big difference was that last year we were 8-11, a .421 winning percentage, in non-competitive games. The year before we were 15-8, a .652 winning percentage, in non-competitive games.

So in other words, what we did was trade in a few close games for opponent's blowouts and some more Pitt blowouts for some closer games, and we performed less well in both close games and blowouts. We were, in fact, more competitive with the crappy teams than we were the year before when those games weren't competitive because we were clobbering the crappy teams.

I could be wrong, but that's not where it seemed like you were going with your comments.

 

[Pittfan85]

Wow. Have you gotten to see a lot in practice?

The fact he is already proclaiming Carr better than young is completely laughable.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

Like I’ve been saying for two years. Go root for TCU. People pining for 2009 Jamie Dixon are delusional and childish. We have an entirely new administration and team. If you don’t like the new coach for any reason, then too bad, but the new players are much better than we had been seeing for years. If you can’t see that, then you’re blind.

 

[Jpripper88]

Now there’s a predictable reply referencing that 55-pt loss to Ville. But it’s also a lazy reply Whirly. If you care to go back and compare the last 2 years Whirly, you’ll find that we were competitive in more games last year than the year before. Take your pick on how you define competitive, I take it as within 1 or 2 possessions of the lead with 3-5 minutes left in the game. By that standard, we were more competitive last year than the prior. We obviously won less games last year. I can go back to last year’s games and cite a few of those losses I could put in coaching decisions, but most are a gray area as to how much it is coaching or players just not making shots or or other key plays down the stretch.

Are you kidding me? In 2015-16 we won 5 more games and lost 5 by 7 or less, so off the bat that is 9 more games than wins in 2016-17. In 2016-17 we lost 7 games by 7 or less points (I extended this margin to make it look better for 2016), so 3 games less than 2015-16, even with this silly "evaluation" criteria.

 

[Pittfan85]

Like I’ve been saying for two years. Go root for TCU. People pining for 2009 Jamie Dixon are delusional and childish. We have an entirely new administration and team. If you don’t like the new coach for any reason, then too bad, but the new players are much better than we had been seeing for years. If you can’t see that, then you’re blind.

Carr is probably better. Everyone else, I don’t see it

 

[mbrannagan]

Freshman Foursome at Pitt since?

We have some talented freshmen and that has kept me interested.

Carr has star potential
Stevenson is a grinder
Stewart can knock down 3s if he's open
Davis had been way better than anyone thought. I was first thinking Wright or Jones but he may have a career as good as Antonio Graves, another late-bloomer

Just need a big man

I suppose this would be true of their contribution thus far as freshman, they are getting a lot of playing time because we have no one else to play. We've had some decent groups of freshmen though:

13/14- Young, Artis, Jones, Newkirk
07/08- Blair, Wanamaker, Brown, McGee
03/04- Taft, Graves, Gray, Kendall

And then there was 87/88 with Miller, Mathews, Martin, Porter and would have had Shorter

This group is rare in that we will see more of them statistically. There are some other classes that had three freshmen, or three freshman and a redshirt freshman.

I look at this group of four and am excited by Carr and Stephenson, but think Davis and Stewart would likely not see time on most Pitt teams of the last 17 or 18 years.

 

[Pittfan85]

I suppose this would be true of their contribution thus far as freshman, they are getting a lot of playing time because we have no one else to play. We've had some decent groups of freshmen though:

13/14- Young, Artis, Jones, Newkirk
07/08- Blair, Wanamaker, Brown, McGee
03/04- Taft, Graves, Gray, Kendall

And then there was 87/88 with Miller, Mathews, Martin, Porter and would have had Shorter

This group is rare in that we will see more of them statistically. There are some other classes that had three freshmen, or three freshman and a redshirt freshman.

I look at this group of four and am excited by Carr and Stephenson, but think Davis and Stewart would likely not see time on most Pitt teams of the last 17 or 18 years.

I said it somewhere else, but even at the end of dixon’s tenure, the only guys who would see time as a freshman would be Carr and Stevenson. Carr would see a fair amount, but Stevenson, probably not a ton. I doubt he’d even push jeter off of many minutes.

Davis and Stewart would have redshirted and not played.

 

[gary2]

Now there’s a predictable reply referencing that 55-pt loss to Ville. But it’s also a lazy reply Whirly. If you care to go back and compare the last 2 years Whirly, you’ll find that we were competitive in more games last year than the year before. Take your pick on how you define competitive, I take it as within 1 or 2 possessions of the lead with 3-5 minutes left in the game. By that standard, we were more competitive last year than the prior. We obviously won less games last year. I can go back to last year’s games and cite a few of those losses I could put in coaching decisions, but most are a gray area as to how much it is coaching or players just not making shots or or other key plays down the stretch.

Last years schedule was more difficult than the year before. Last years roster was not as good as the year before. Last years luck with injury was not as good as the year before. Last years experience with suspension was not as good as the year before.

The difference was 5 games - Does the above explain that difference?

 

[mbrannagan]

Last years schedule was more difficult than the year before. Last years roster was not as good as the year before. Last years luck with injury was not as good as the year before. Last years experience with suspension was not as good as the year before.

The difference was 5 games - Does the above explain that difference?

Last years roster had 7 of the top 10 in minutes played, returned 4 seniors, 4 of the top 5 in scoring. They brought in two top 150 recruits, and the coach chose to leave a roster spot open rather than attempting to fill whatever holes he saw on the roster. Didn't even bother to add a transfer that could be helping them this year.

The idea that last years roster was so bad is lost on me. The loss of Robinson hurt sure, but I think it is what Stallings did to deal with that loss that was the worst part. His desire to have 5 shooters on the floor meant putting Artis at the PG slot. I know it is an unpopular opinion, but if Wilson and/or Kitchart were just simply asked to run the offense they could have. Jones or Johnson then comes off the bench, and that team is more balanced.

Even from the Dixon haters,the idea that last years roster was terrible is revisionist history. I would expect 90% of the board thought last years team would be an NCAA team.

 

[pittman71]

I am not sure why some think these guys will improve a great deal over the next three seasons.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Last years roster had 7 of the top 10 in minutes played, returned 4 seniors, 4 of the top 5 in scoring. They brought in two top 150 recruits, and the coach chose to leave a roster spot open rather than attempting to fill whatever holes he saw on the roster. Didn't even bother to add a transfer that could be helping them this
The idea that last years roster was so bad is lost on me. The loss of Robinson hurt sure, but I think it is what Stallings did to deal with that loss that was the worst part. His desire to have 5 shooters on the floor meant putting Artis at the PG slot. I know it is an unpopular opinion, but if Wilson and/or Kitchart were just simply asked to run the offense they could have. Jones or Johnson then comes off the bench, and that team is more balanced.

Even from the Dixon haters,the idea that last years roster was terrible is revisionist history. I would expect 90% of the board thought last years team would be an NCAA team.

Your assuming that he didn't try to fill that roster spot , I'm assuming he tried but couldn't add anyone who'd have helped . Your assuming he realized that neither of the freshman ,Clark or Wilson were going to offer nothing last season , I'm assuming not until he began working with them did he realize their abilities were limited .( Clarks injury notwithstanding)
Pitt was loaded with small forwards no guards no centers discounting the absence of JRob with no successor waiting in the wings was JDs fault not KS .
It's just not all KS fault .

 

[mbrannagan]

Your assuming that he didn't try to fill that roster spot , I'm assuming he tried but couldn't add anyone who'd have helped . Your assuming he realized that neither of the freshman ,Clark or Wilson were going to offer nothing last season , I'm assuming not until he began working with them did he realize their abilities were limited .( Clarks injury notwithstanding)
Pitt was loaded with small forwards no guards no centers discounting the absence of JRob with no successor waiting in the wings was JDs fault not KS .
It's just not all KS fault .

I'm not suggesting it is all KS's fault, but I also don't believe it is all JDs fault. There are a ton of teams that are imbalanced in college ball, Pitt was overloaded on wings, that is fine, but for 3 years Mike Young played down low KS made him a wing. Artis was a small forward we made him a PG. Wilson was a PG we played him off ball. There are a lot of changes that Stallings made, that I have questions about.

I get that it is a different offense, a different emphasis, and that may be the greater issue, but the idea that a team that returned 4 of its top 5. 5 of its top 6 and 7 of its top 10 in minutes played and PPG should have fallen off that much is hard for me to see. That team with Dixon still coaching would have been a tourney team, even with its flaws.

And I'm not assuming KS didn't try, I believe he tried to fill the spot and did not find someone better, that is fine, I believe that, but am I supposed to credit him for trying? By that logic do we not credit JD for trying to bring in better classes in his last 3 years? I also believe JD would have filled that spot to get someone who could provide some help, whether that was a grad transfer C or G. Stallings had that opportunity. Dixon got to TCU just a few days earlier than KS got here, and he ended up bringing in 3 players who conributed

So while I can agree that the team wasn't built for what KS wanted to do, I struggle to look at that team with two guys on NBA contracts in Artis and Young, a guy that will be starting for UNC in Johnson, 2 seniors who were limited but solid in Jeter and Jones and had played a lot of minutes and got a lot of wins, and this years star player who is averaging a double-double and can stretch the floor in Luther, and see them as some crap team. We also brought in two top 150 recruits in Kitchart and Manigault, had soph guard who had been a top 100 recruit in Wilson. Maybe those youngsters wouldn't have panned out, but that is a pulling the plug pretty quickly. We recruited "freshman" this year who are older than Kitchart and Manigault are now, so they were young enough to still develop.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

no centers

If only we had a guy who was third team all ACC the year before while spending much of his time playing center that we could have played there. Just unlucky, I guess.

 

[Pittfan85]

Your assuming that he didn't try to fill that roster spot , I'm assuming he tried but couldn't add anyone who'd have helped . Your assuming he realized that neither of the freshman ,Clark or Wilson were going to offer nothing last season , I'm assuming not until he began working with them did he realize their abilities were limited .( Clarks injury notwithstanding)
Pitt was loaded with small forwards no guards no centers discounting the absence of JRob with no successor waiting in the wings was JDs fault not KS .
It's just not all KS fault .

If he tried and failed to fill roster spots it is 100% stallings fault.

 

[Jpripper88]

Your assuming that he didn't try to fill that roster spot , I'm assuming he tried but couldn't add anyone who'd have helped . Your assuming he realized that neither of the freshman ,Clark or Wilson were going to offer nothing last season , I'm assuming not until he began working with them did he realize their abilities were limited .( Clarks injury notwithstanding)
Pitt was loaded with small forwards no guards no centers discounting the absence of JRob with no successor waiting in the wings was JDs fault not KS .
It's just not all KS fault .

Several other ACC schools filled spots with quality players after Stallings was hired. Why couldn't he fill the spot? How is that not his fault? He did it for the 2017, but obviously the players aren't any good.

You post this crap again and again and can never answer the questions.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

If only we had a guy who was third team all ACC the year before while spending much of his time playing center that we could have played there. Just unlucky, I guess.

He didn't play the position as a true center and he didn't buy in to it either . His offense is why he was third team . He didn't play the position like a Blair , Adams , McGhee etc.....centers

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Several other ACC schools filled spots with quality players after Stallings was hired. Why couldn't he fill the spot? How is that not his fault? He did it for the 2017, but obviously the players aren't any good.

You post this crap again and again and can never answer the questions.

No , you just assume he goes up to some kid and he says come to Pitt and play and the kids so overwhelmed and signs . All these kids have options all better than pitt . Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Since the Young class every recruit JD signed maybe with the exception of Wilson wasn't a primary target . Thats the reason pitt is in the mess they're in . I doubt that you can understand this I know its all KS fault . I heard hes also responsible for global warming.

 

[mbrannagan]

He didn't play the position as a true center and he didn't buy in to it either . His offense is why he was third team . He didn't play the position like a Blair , Adams , McGhee etc.....centers

Even playing like a stretch 4 would have been a help on this team. He consistently drifted further and further away from the basket and Stallings let him. People say that the loss of Robinson as a PG was the biggest difference. I disagree, our inability to rebound was the biggest difference, and that was not as a result of the player change, that was a change in emphasis and succumbing to Young's desire to play like a 3.

 

[Jpripper88]

No , you just assume he goes up to some kid and he says come to Pitt and play and the kids so overwhelmed and signs . All these kids have options all better than pitt . Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Since the Young class every recruit JD signed maybe with the exception of Wilson wasn't a primary target . Thats the reason pitt is in the mess they're in . I doubt that you can understand this I know its all KS fault . I heard hes also responsible for global warming.

Except those kids signed with programs equal or below Pitt. He just can't recruit and either didn't want to do anything or completely failed.

I don't have any issue acknowledging the problems under Dixon and I don't think he would have turned it around. That doesn't excuse how awful Kevin Stallings has been.

 

[mbrannagan]

No , you just assume he goes up to some kid and he says come to Pitt and play and the kids so overwhelmed and signs . All these kids have options all better than pitt . Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Since the Young class every recruit JD signed maybe with the exception of Wilson wasn't a primary target . Thats the reason pitt is in the mess they're in . I doubt that you can understand this I know its all KS fault . I heard hes also responsible for global warming.

Ok, but given that logic wouldn't that be a reason to have rallied support for JD because he had sustained success despite all of these kids having better options?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Ok, but given that logic wouldn't that be a reason to have rallied support for JD because he had sustained success despite all of these kids having better options?

I never wanted JD to leave . There's no denying what Jamie did for pitt bb , but anyone with any objectivity saw this coming . His last three clases were very poor and once he started down the grad transfer path things fell apart. He couldnt even atract good grad transfers.
I don't know the answer as to why he couldn't recruit anymore , (at Pitt ) was it him ,the assistants, style of play etc I don't know but the results speak for itself . TCU wants to win and im sure $$$ has alot to do with it .

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Even playing like a stretch 4 would have been a help on this team. He consistently drifted further and further away from the basket and Stallings let him. People say that the loss of Robinson as a PG was the biggest difference. I disagree, our inability to rebound was the biggest difference, and that was not as a result of the player change, that was a change in emphasis and succumbing to Young's desire to play like a 3.

I guess you forgot he benched him . What options did he have there wasnt a bench ?

 

[mbrannagan]

I never wanted JD to leave . There's no denying what Jamie did for pitt bb , but anyone with any objectivity saw this coming . His last three clases were very poor and once he started down the grad transfer path things fell apart. He couldnt even atract good grad transfers.
I don't know the answer as to why he couldn't recruit anymore , (at Pitt ) was it him ,the assistants, style of play etc I don't know but the results speak for itself . TCU wants to win and im sure $$$ has alot to do with it .

Those are all good questions. I can't always remember who on this board wanted JD gone and wanted him to stay. I am in a camp that believes there was a dip, and he'd rebound.
Often the right assistant can shift the recruiting by just 1 recruit a year and a teams fortunes improve. My biggest complaint about Dixon was in the assistants he attracted. Smoke and Barton just weren't doing it for me, and Knight I'm not sure of either, I just know I am biased in my appreciation for him. If Rohrsen stayed and Heron came to Pitt this could be a different discussion.
I still react to statements about Dixon's time that say "fall apart" or his "terrible" teams. If a 1st round tourney exit was falling apart, what do we call what is happening now? And this isn't even the lowest I've seen Pitt basketball, some of the teams in the 1990s were flat out atrocious.

 

[mbrannagan]

I guess you forgot he benched him . What options did he have there wasnt a bench ?

He benched him for something off the court, not on the court, Stallings wanted those guys to be shooters, and they did... and we sucked.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Those are all good questions. I can't always remember who on this board wanted JD gone and wanted him to stay. I am in a camp that believes there was a dip, and he'd rebound.
Often the right assistant can shift the recruiting by just 1 recruit a year and a teams fortunes improve. My biggest complaint about Dixon was in the assistants he attracted. Smoke and Barton just weren't doing it for me, and Knight I'm not sure of either, I just know I am biased in my appreciation for him. If Rohrsen stayed and Heron came to Pitt this could be a different discussion.
I still react to statements about Dixon's time that say "fall apart" or his "terrible" teams. If a 1st round tourney exit was falling apart, what do we call what is happening now? And this isn't even the lowest I've seen Pitt basketball, some of the teams in the 1990s were flat out atrocious.

I've gone to games since the early 70s and the common denominator is talent wins games Buzz won with Billy Knight , Evans won with Smith and co , Jamie won with Blair and so on . There's just not that kind of talent at Pitt and they won't win again without it . What pitt needs to do to attract talent is above my pay grade because the easy answer is hire a top coach , but that's just not pitt$ way .

 

[mbrannagan]

I've gone to games since the early 70s and the common denominator is talent wins games Buzz won with Billy Knight , Evans won with Smith and co , Jamie won with Blair and so on . There's just not that kind of talent at Pitt and they won't win again without it . What pitt needs to do to attract talent is above my pay grade because the easy answer is hire a top coach , but that's just not pitt$ way .

Fair enough. Though I think what Dixon did was to compensate for not having the best talent by having a good system, good development and team ball. The San Antonio Spurs have not always had the best talent, they've seldom picked higher than 20 in the last 20 years, and rarely pulled in a top FA, but they won through developing guys, playing a good team system and getting buy in.

When Dixon truly began to have a dip at Pitt is when we started losing good talent for other reasons and not getting the buy in on the system- Birch transfer, Adams leaving a year earlier than anyone would have thought, both Johnson's transferring, the Newkirk transfer.

That is on him too, but I think it speaks to the epidemic in college basketball that he hadn't adjusted too. He is in a better position at TCU to bring in top talent and he is getting immediate success, but I think we would have also had success at Pitt by taking solid recruits like Manigault, Wilson, Kitchart and developing them within the system as well.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Wanamaker, Blair, McGhee were true freshmen in the 2008 season and Gil Brown was a RS freshman.

THAT was a good group. We know squat about the current group until we play a few teams that are considered, you know, better than awful.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Fair enough. Though I think what Dixon did was to compensate for not having the best talent by having a good system, good development and team ball. The San Antonio Spurs have not always had the best talent, they've seldom picked higher than 20 in the last 20 years, and rarely pulled in a top FA, but they won through developing guys, playing a good team system and getting buy in.

When Dixon truly began to have a dip at Pitt is when we started losing good talent for other reasons and not getting the buy in on the system- Birch transfer, Adams leaving a year earlier than anyone would have thought, both Johnson's transferring, the Newkirk transfer.

That is on him too, but I think it speaks to the epidemic in college basketball that he hadn't adjusted too. He is in a better position at TCU to bring in top talent and he is getting immediate success, but I think we would have also had success at Pitt by taking solid recruits like Manigault, Wilson, Kitchart and developing them within the system as well.

I just don' think those three guys have it . KS needs talent he didnt let them walk for any other reason then he didn' think he could win with them .

 

[mbrannagan]

I just don' think those three guys have it . KS needs talent he didnt let them walk for any other reason then he didn' think he could win with them .

I suppose time will tell, and that may be true, but I do think I'd rather have a Corey Manigault with a full year with collegiate coaching and weight room over a Samson George, or even a Peace Ilegomah, maybe even over Chukwuka who has had some moments but may not be able to dunk.

I would have rather Wilson got some minutes last year, as opposed to over playing a Chris Jones to see if the flashes we saw as a freshmen would develop.

I would have liked to see a true PG remain on the roster in Kitchart to see if the speed he showed could be harnassed, and the shooting he was recruited for was present.

No one can really know, but I do expect that if they were on this team, this year, recruited by Stallings who had to settle for plenty of 3rd and 4th choices they'd all be in the rotation. These young guys now aren't necessarily better (though they may be), they are just getting more opportunity.

I see some real promise in Carr and Stephenson, 2 that we can rebuild around, I hope to see something from the big guys this year, or hope that we can land a top JuCo big man for next year. The loss of Luther is disconcerting for next years chances of being competitive.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I suppose time will tell, and that may be true, but I do think I'd rather have a Corey Manigault with a full year with collegiate coaching and weight room over a Samson George, or even a Peace Ilegomah, maybe even over Chukwuka who has had some moments but may not be able to dunk.

I would have rather Wilson got some minutes last year, as opposed to over playing a Chris Jones to see if the flashes we saw as a freshmen would develop.

I would have liked to see a true PG remain on the roster in Kitchart to see if the speed he showed could be harnassed, and the shooting he was recruited for was present.

No one can really know, but I do expect that if they were on this team, this year, recruited by Stallings who had to settle for plenty of 3rd and 4th choices they'd all be in the rotation. These young guys now aren't necessarily better (though they may be), they are just getting more opportunity.

I see some real promise in Carr and Stephenson, 2 that we can rebuild around, I hope to see something from the big guys this year, or hope that we can land a top JuCo big man for next year. The loss of Luther is disconcerting for next years chances of being competitive.

I'm more concerned with the top 8 or 9 top guys then whose at the bottom of the depth chart .
I want KS to succeed because I want Pitt to win and for him to win he has to recruit guys that can play in the acc . I dont think any of those guys fit the bill . What makes it harder is all the negativity and no booster groups . Pitts in a deep hole and they're not getting out of it quickly . Be patient or do yourself a favor and don't watch .

 

[Pitt3Putt]

THAT was a good group. We know squat about the current group until we play a few teams that are considered, you know, better than awful.

People hated McGhee and Wanamaker so much as freshmen that it took until part way through Brad's senior year for people to stop saying "Turnover Machine" every time he turned it over, and when McGhee graduated a sizable portion of the fanbase still thought he was incapable of catching a pass.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Your assuming that he didn't try to fill that roster spot , I'm assuming he tried but couldn't add anyone who'd have helped . Your assuming he realized that neither of the freshman ,Clark or Wilson were going to offer nothing last season , I'm assuming not until he began working with them did he realize their abilities were limited .( Clarks injury notwithstanding)
Pitt was loaded with small forwards no guards no centers discounting the absence of JRob with no successor waiting in the wings was JDs fault not KS .
It's just not all KS fault .

I'm not suggesting it is all KS's fault, but I also don't believe it is all JDs fault. There are a ton of teams that are imbalanced in college ball, Pitt was overloaded on wings, that is fine, but for 3 years Mike Young played down low KS made him a wing. Artis was a small forward we made him a PG. Wilson was a PG we played him off ball. There are a lot of changes that Stallings made, that I have questions about.

I get that it is a different offense, a different emphasis, and that may be the greater issue, but the idea that a team that returned 4 of its top 5. 5 of its top 6 and 7 of its top 10 in minutes played and PPG should have fallen off that much is hard for me to see. That team with Dixon still coaching would have been a tourney team, even with its flaws.

And I'm not assuming KS didn't try, I believe he tried to fill the spot and did not find someone better, that is fine, I believe that, but am I supposed to credit him for trying? By that logic do we not credit JD for trying to bring in better classes in his last 3 years? I also believe JD would have filled that spot to get someone who could provide some help, whether that was a grad transfer C or G. Stallings had that opportunity. Dixon got to TCU just a few days earlier than KS got here, and he ended up bringing in 3 players who conributed

So while I can agree that the team wasn't built for what KS wanted to do, I struggle to look at that team with two guys on NBA contracts in Artis and Young, a guy that will be starting for UNC in Johnson, 2 seniors who were limited but solid in Jeter and Jones and had played a lot of minutes and got a lot of wins, and this years star player who is averaging a double-double and can stretch the floor in Luther, and see them as some crap team. We also brought in two top 150 recruits in Kitchart and Manigault, had soph guard who had been a top 100 recruit in Wilson. Maybe those youngsters wouldn't have panned out, but that is a pulling the plug pretty quickly. We recruited "freshman" this year who are older than Kitchart and Manigault are now, so they were young enough to still develop.

Easy. They refused to play D. Jamie would have had a coronary trying to get them to play enough D to make the NCAAT but they would have.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

People hated McGhee and Wanamaker so much as freshmen that it took until part way through Brad's senior year for people to stop saying "Turnover Machine" every time he turned it over, and when McGhee graduated a sizable portion of the fanbase still thought he was incapable of catching a pass.

But people who know college basketball know what you said isn't true. And real Pitt fans that know college basketball know it isn't true. I'd take McGhee and Wannamaker over any of the guys currently on the Pitt team, and maybe add in Carr and Luther (because he has guts).

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

He didn't play the position as a true center and he didn't buy in to it either . His offense is why he was third team . He didn't play the position like a Blair , Adams , McGhee etc.....centers

Sometimes I wonder if you ever watch college basketball outside of Pitt, and I don't mean that as a joke, I mean that in all seriousness.

Teams all over the country play guys at center who aren't "true centers". Lot's of teams do not have a back to the basket post player on offense. Lots of centers play face up the way Young did at center rather than back to the basket the way that someone like McGhee did. That doesn't make the face up guy any less a center and a back to the basket guy any more of a center. The game has changed since you and I were young, and you seem to have not noticed.

And the funny thing is that the current coach doesn't really play offense with a back to the basket center in any event. Mike Young at center actually fits the mode of what he seems to want better than a Gary McGhee ever would.

 

[mbrannagan]

I'm more concerned with the top 8 or 9 top guys then whose at the bottom of the depth chart .
I want KS to succeed because I want Pitt to win and for him to win he has to recruit guys that can play in the acc . I dont think any of those guys fit the bill . What makes it harder is all the negativity and no booster groups . Pitts in a deep hole and they're not getting out of it quickly . Be patient or do yourself a favor and don't watch .

But often those bottom guys grow in the system and contribute. If things fell into place Wilson was contributing last year and able to be a bigger piece this year, same with Manigault and Kitchart. luther and Johnson would be our key guys. That still would have been a down year, but it is how development works. We'd still have had a core this year, and the other pieces would fill out the core, or you hit a HR and a Marcus Carr comes in as a starter while a Kitchart or Wilson remains a reserve.

 

[Black Panther]

it will happen when you have a very young team.

It happened to a senior laden team last year too...Don't you remember all the blown big leads in the pre ACC games last year?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Sometimes I wonder if you ever watch college basketball outside of Pitt, and I don't mean that as a joke, I mean that in all seriousness.

Teams all over the country play guys at center who aren't "true centers". Lot's of teams do not have a back to the basket post player on offense. Lots of centers play face up the way Young did at center rather than back to the basket the way that someone like McGhee did. That doesn't make the face up guy any less a center and a back to the basket guy any more of a center. The game has changed since you and I were young, and you seem to have not noticed.

And the funny thing is that the current coach doesn't really play offense with a back to the basket center in any event. Mike Young at center actually fits the mode of what he seems to want better than a Gary McGhee ever would.

I totally disagree , KS stated on many occasions that they had no rim protector . Was he unaware that JoeTPF disagrees ?Mike wasn't a bull like Blair and he was physically overmatched against bigger opponents. If Stallings ever gets the players he wants I'll guarantee you he won't be a thin 6ft 7 inch center who doesn't really want to play inside . Just because he was Pitts best and only option there doesn't make him an effective player especially on defense .
I've watched enough bb to know that Mike Young without a strong 4 isn't the center you want on your team .
If Gary McGhee was on this team as a senior I'd guarantee you he starts at center and MY is a 4 with Jeter off the bench .

 

[mbrannagan]

I totally disagree , KS stated on many occasions that they had no rim protector . Was he unaware that JoeTPF disagrees ?Mike wasn't a bull like Blair and he was physically overmatched against bigger opponents. If Stallings ever gets the players he wants I'll guarantee you he won't be a thin 6ft 7 inch center who doesn't really want to play inside . Just because he was Pitts best and only option there doesn't make him an effective player especially on defense .
I've watched enough bb to know that Mike Young without a strong 4 isn't the center you want on your team .
If Gary McGhee was on this team as a senior I'd guarantee you he starts at center and MY is a 4 with Jeter off the bench .

It may be true that Young is not the C you want, but he was the C you had. We didn't lose a rim protecting C, we lost the limited minutes that Rafael Maia provided. Stallings didn't play a scheme last year that was matched to the players he had.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

It may be true that Young is not the C you want, but he was the C you had. We didn't lose a rim protecting C, we lost the limited minutes that Rafael Maia provided. Stallings didn't play a scheme last year that was matched to the players he had.

Pitt wasn't playing Jamie ball last yr either.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

People hated McGhee and Wanamaker so much as freshmen that it took until part way through Brad's senior year for people to stop saying "Turnover Machine" every time he turned it over, and when McGhee graduated a sizable portion of the fanbase still thought he was incapable of catching a pass.

But people who know college basketball know what you said isn't true. And real Pitt fans that know college basketball know it isn't true. I'd take McGhee and Wannamaker over any of the guys currently on the Pitt team, and maybe add in Carr and Luther (because he has guts).

I was one of like 3 people who supported those guys from the beginning, I’m well aware of how hated they were and how long the hatred lasted.

McGhee played like 100 minutes as a frosh. Brad DID look bad as a freshman. Far worse than any of the main freshmen playing now.

These guys are ahead of both of them, I don’t think that’s a radical position to take.