Conference Expansion: Analyzing Which Schools Could End Up Joining the ACC?, LINK!
- Thread starter CaptainSidneyReilly
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good grief, I've been hearing how ND will "Have to" join a conference for two decades.. ND doesn't HAVE TO do anything, they call their own shots. playoffs will be just as accessible to them no matter what, ncaa is not shutting them out, they cant. ND is fine folks, they and maybe texas are programs that can do this independent thing and be well off. ND has more money than Banks, God, and Big Oil combined.. they are now and will be forever fine. there is no doomsday for nd..
Those of you that dont want WVU in the ACC ("fan base sucks......lousy academics......no tv market).......sound very much like our elitist, holier than thou friends 3 hours East of here........
Absent Notre Dame, they are the best football brand available to the ACC.
Instead of throwing a temper tantrum.....maybe consider the Friday after Thanksgiving........Pitt WVU at Noon and Miami FSU at 7PM?
Thats a homerun for our conference......
The ACC would only solidify their brand by bringing in the hoopies, and Pitt would benefit in many ways,.....including the yearly opportunity to kick their ass.
Absent Notre Dame, they are the best football brand available to the ACC.
Instead of throwing a temper tantrum.....maybe consider the Friday after Thanksgiving........Pitt WVU at Noon and Miami FSU at 7PM?
Thats a homerun for our conference......
The ACC would only solidify their brand by bringing in the hoopies, and Pitt would benefit in many ways,.....including the yearly opportunity to kick their ass.
it's a good move for the acc, no doubt about it. I think most pitt fans, whether they want to admit it or not, don't want to give wvu more accessibility locally. which is kind of dumb because they are on root sports pgh more than pitt is, they do ok in wpial but not great, no different than before when they were in big east and they still recruit the dc/metro area, ohio and florida well, again, same as before.
The NCAA should end the independent status and force every team into a conference.
IMO this will make for stronger and more competitive conferences!
Look at this the opposite way what if a lot of teams decided to become independents it would destroy the conferences.
IMO this will make for stronger and more competitive conferences!
Look at this the opposite way what if a lot of teams decided to become independents it would destroy the conferences.
Absent consistent winning, Pitt needs marquee home games to market ticket packages. PSU scheduled 2 extra games with us only to deflect bad PR during the rape crisis. PSU won't be doing so again (barring another similar crisis of course ... which is not impossible there, given they learned nothing).
Other than PSU and ND, few other schools would fit that mold and WVU is the only one we'd be capable of getting a long term series commitment. But that would suck up an OOC slot (and extra home game every other year) right now. However, being conference mates would take that burden off. And rescue us from the poor crowd of one of the lesser ACC teams we now get every other year). Plus helping blunt the hit we took when we used to have ND coming in every other year. And of course, never seeing PSU again at Heinz after 2018 in most of our lifetimes (my prediction).
Certainly i'm not eager to see WVU fans here. But financially, Pitt admin should be leading the charge for bringing in WVU.
Unless the admin rather simply commit to making us regular serious winners, which negates needing marquee games (every game would become a marquee game) ... I'm totally for that too. But ... heh heh ... that would be nutty.
Other than PSU and ND, few other schools would fit that mold and WVU is the only one we'd be capable of getting a long term series commitment. But that would suck up an OOC slot (and extra home game every other year) right now. However, being conference mates would take that burden off. And rescue us from the poor crowd of one of the lesser ACC teams we now get every other year). Plus helping blunt the hit we took when we used to have ND coming in every other year. And of course, never seeing PSU again at Heinz after 2018 in most of our lifetimes (my prediction).
Certainly i'm not eager to see WVU fans here. But financially, Pitt admin should be leading the charge for bringing in WVU.
Unless the admin rather simply commit to making us regular serious winners, which negates needing marquee games (every game would become a marquee game) ... I'm totally for that too. But ... heh heh ... that would be nutty.
put them in the other division, we finally get a cross over rivalry that isn't Syracuse and oh yeah, they have to compete with Clemson and fla state every year while we have unc and Miami.
Problem is, college football has changed in the last two decades. You are inaccurate on your analysis on a couple of points:
1. The playoffs won't be just as accessible to them. Keep in mind, I was responding to a poster's hypothetical scenario. He was proposing a playoff format with 8 teams, and 5 automatic bids for P5 champions. Under that scenario, Notre Dame would not have just as much access to the playoffs. They would only have access to 3 spots, as opposed to 4 now. Notre Dame would also be at a competitive disadvantage, because they would basically have to go 12-0/11-1 to make the playoffs. On the other hand, P5 schools could go 9-3/8-4, and still make the playoffs via conference championship. That would kill them in recruiting. P5 schools would be able to offer much greater access to the playoffs than Notre Dame. That would put Notre Dame on the level with mid major schools, rather than the P5 shcools.
2. Notre Dame doesn't have that much money. 20 years ago they did, because nobody had a TV deal like Notre Dame's NBC deal. That's no longer the case. All the P5 TV contracts pay out more than the NBC deal. Notre Dame also doesn't get money from the major bowls like the other conferences do. That's why many other schools have surpassed Notre Dame in facilities.
Again, keep in mind this is all based on the hypothetical scenario proposed by another poster. I addressed this in my previous post, which you obviously didn't read.
ND can kill students, pay off their families and not skip a beat.. We needed a 6 month fund raiser to build a locker. ND is doing just fine.
Don't necessarily confuse athletic support/revenues with a school's overall wealth or endowment. Harvard, Yale and Princeton dwarf any of the successful current athletic powers in terms of wealth. But it's certainly not coming from athletics. Nor are any of those 3 choosing to spend wildly on athletics either. They have other priorities.
While they are not impoverished athletically by any means, would ND like to be doing better in terms of athletic revenues than they are right now? You bet they would. What that may mean in terms of their future decision making remains unknown at present, however.
oh boo hoo... the reason you can't stand their fans is that their fans hate Pitt and say meanie things... that is what rivals do and that is what makes things fun... but hey, bring in Temple or Vandy, they seem nice and you might get a nice casserole recipe from them or something...geez.
Another poster beat me to it, but he's right. Overall wealth of the school and money for the athletic department are two different things. It's simply a fact that Notre Dame's TV contract has been eclipsed by the P5, and it's also a fact they don't have guaranteed money from major bowls, like the P5.
topdecker, this is a good conversation and you seem to know your stuff so take my retorts not as confrontational but more as "playing devil's advocate" here. this was from last year's season. taken from the internet so you know it's gotta be true. im not seeing ND as doing too bad on their own..
Private schools were not included in the USA Today analysis, thus omitting legendary football schools such as Notre Dame and USC. Notre Dame would have come in fifth on the football revenue list with $81 million in football revenue and $48 million in football profits, and USC would have been 15th in revenue at $59 million with $29 million in profits.
http://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/ncaa-20-college-football-programs-raking-in-the-money.html/
author lost all credibility with this statement
The problem is it isn’t, and pretty much every Power 5 league from ocean to ocean will be looking to add WVU if the Big XII eventually falls apart.
No one other than the SEC and ACC has any interest at all in WVU and those two conferences have them way down the list.
The problem is it isn’t, and pretty much every Power 5 league from ocean to ocean will be looking to add WVU if the Big XII eventually falls apart.
No one other than the SEC and ACC has any interest at all in WVU and those two conferences have them way down the list.
The problem is though, that's not overall revenue. I have not doubt Notre Dame does make a lot of money. However, in the old days, Notre Dame would be at the top of the list. Now, it's clear other schools have caught them.
That also doesn't address the playoff aspect (which again I will point out, was in response to a hypothetical scenario). Notre Dame would be at a serious recruiting advantage if P5 conferences got automatic bids. They simply would not be able to recruit competitively in that scenario. (I'll again stress, this is all based on a response to a proposed hypothetical scenario.)
OU wants out, read the tea leafs. Go to their site and its 2/3 for leaving. Supposedly the big money boosters want out. they aren't happy that they don't have a name program coming to norman every year. They only have 3 OOC games and even with a home and home wouldn't get a name opponent every year at home(TX is neutral site). Add to that they don't make as much as anyone in the SEC or B10 or TX.
TX from most sources is fine with the way things are, they have lots of money because of the long horn network they make as much as anyone. They get to run a conference and if they have 1 loss or fewer make the CFP
IF ND came to the ACC and said we want in but only if Navy is number 16 you can bet your ass that Navy would be number 16. Change Navy to anyone and the answer is the same. ND is worth enough to feed two mouths.
They would probably let Notre Dame keep the NBC contract in that scenario, and just subtract that out of Notre Dame's payout.
It actually wouldn't be a bad idea for the ACC. That would give them a national "game of the week," sort of like what the SEC has with CBS. Granted, that game of the week would always be Notre Dame, but they would be playing 4 ACC teams every year.
It actually wouldn't be a bad idea for the ACC. That would give them a national "game of the week," sort of like what the SEC has with CBS. Granted, that game of the week would always be Notre Dame, but they would be playing 4 ACC teams every year.
yeah, I was thinking that. it is a hit perception wise but I still think the ACC makes out, even if they tell ND to keep their contract.. I think ACC gets some credibility next go-around with tv contract with ND as a full time member, even if they don't include home irish games.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
If Louisville is in the ACC, why not WVU? Even if WVU isn't adding a lot of TV's, they do add a pretty good tradition and an instantly competitive program. Plus Pitt benefits from getting a natural rival in every sport.
You don't have to like the Hoopies but Pitt would benefit from having them in the ACC.
You don't have to like the Hoopies but Pitt would benefit from having them in the ACC.
they aren't doing bad. Their TV money is below pretty much all power 5 schools now, however they sellout everygame(and their tickets arent cheap) still do very well in merchandise and donations. They also probably have a massive radio contract as well(NC radio contract was 9 million). They don't need the money but they could make more as a full ACC member. They won't join unless it puts them at a big competitive disadvantage. Even if they go to 8 bids with 5 going to the conferences unless 1 or more of the spots are guaranteed to go to the G5 ND will stay independent. They know that if they go 10-2 they will have a good shot at one of those spots. In fact they probably have less chance with the current system.
I think WVU would have a good shot and I would bet Pitt will support them being added. However the ACC is kind of stuck waiting on ND. I can't see them adding anyone besides a big fish(TX maybe OK) without ND coming in full time. I think that OK jumps ship in 5 or 6 years and TX seeing that the b12 is dead will seek a ND type deal with the ACC. ACC won't be likely to add anyone else in that scenario.
10-2 ND would almost 100% get an at large berth and 9-3 ND would have a pretty good chance most years. Not the same as an outlier 4 loss conference champion going, but definitely not as hard a scenario as you presented.
Academically?? I'll have to check that fit.....nice increase in rivalry with BC!! HTP/forever!!!
Agree I think I would even be willing to do a ND deal for TX. But if the ACC could ever land TX and ND then they would be the equal of any conference, in both money and on the field.
No mistake by your posts..........New Jersey is loaded with Talent but many choose to leave and forget about Rutgers too......right now they are dealing with total turmoil in multiple turnovers in the Athletic Department and Tom Ash may get some some Sanctions to add to his troubles.
If Tom Ash can just keep just keep 10 Recruits of Five & Four Stars in NJ every year, they can have a break out year not seen since Coach Greg Schiano did it in 2006-2007 Top 25 Rankings!
Agree, first Radio Broadcasts was the Back Yard Brawl on KDKA between PITT-WVU. Since 1980 WVU is 18-12 against Pitt and played for National Championship in 1989 losing to ND. Pitt stopped them 13-9 in 2007 too.
Yet, WVU was not afraid to call upon their own Alma Mater Favorite Sons in CoachRod and Oliver Luck and Huggins that brought much Fame to WVU name unlike Pitt's Pederson Poison & Barnes Barn Door Opening OreGONE???
CoachRod got Don Nehlen (Michigan Alum), Wonder Lust in his Eyes jumping to Big Michigan Blue, unlike Nehlen never being Invited, but then fired for some NCAA Practice Sanctions Violations and ended up at Arizona barely surviving. CoachRod like Johnny Major & Jackie Sherrill made the Stepping Stone Mistakes of leaving and then Stepped In Some SH(Manure)IP at UTenn, A&M, Missy State with later Regrets!
Oliver Luck the Savior of WVU to a Power Conference did what was necessary to join the Big-12 but left to be near his son and now at the NCAA!
Huggins return to his Home Town has been a complete success going to the Final Four and doing well in the Big-12.
Even President Gee returned to clean up the Academic Mess and Big East Demise. Yet, the Big-12 refusal to Expand towards Midwest & East or at all is causing many problems for WVU Athletes Travel, Trails,and Trans-fails?
WVU-PITT are better together, but WVU would be a great addition to SEC & Big-10 in Location, Fan Base Attendance, and Football History too, if the ACC refuses to accept them?
There is no downside for PITT-WVU-PSU playing each other being in 3 Different Conferences now, and so near, with Historical Competitive Roots, in my view.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Not that I disagree (I don't and I've said before that the ACC could do that deal), I'm just not sure Texas would be interested in something similar. Could really see them kissing OU goodbye and backfilling the conference with the notion that their name alone would prop them up if they play a strong enough OOC. Honestly, the conference situation can't get much worse and their payday is still pretty good. Texas never cared much about anyone else in their conference and has pieced together conferences for years.
The factual proof is how Texas Boosters stayed with Mack Brown far too long and hired Charlie Strong and gave him every opportunity to Recruit and Win for 3 Years and still made more Money than any other Program even at losing?
Texas has it all, Income, Resources, Recruits, and can survive lackluster coaching and attract better Coaches anytime they choose.
Michigan hired Harbaugh and many doubted he could win 10 Games in his first year and he did it and year two too.I predict it will happen again in 2017.
I see the same with Tom Herman at Texas! I can wait to be proven wrong and admit it, but so far I have not had to do it with Harbaugh and believe the same with Herman at Texas?
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It is that hard. Over the last 20 years, Notre Dame has won 10+ games only 4 times. Only 1 season (2012) did they have under 2 losses in the regular season. Notre Dame isn't even playing at that level now. Ok, well put Notre Dame, as they currently perform, into a scenario where the P5 teams have 4 playoff bids, and Notre Dame only has 3. On top of that, P5 teams can make the playoffs with 3 or 4 losses. In that scenario, Notre Dame would simply get killed in recruiting. P5 schools would simply offer way more opportunity for success to recruits than Notre Dame.
Notre Dame would be far from 100% guaranteed to make the playoff at 10-2, under the proposed scenario. Let's just look at what they would be up against in the last 5 years.
Notre Dame at 10-2 would be nowhere close to a lock to jump all those teams.
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Whether they will or have won 10 games isn't what you said. And, yes, 10-2 ND makes the playoff almost 100% of the time.
You're right. I said Notre Dame would basically have to go 12-0/11-1 to make the playoffs. The point about winning 10 games further emphasizes the point. They aren't even getting to 10 wins now, let alone 11 or 12.
No, Notre Dame at 10-2 is not almost 100% guaranteed. Not even close. Notre Dame vs. Oklahoma or Ohio St at 10-2 is a coin flip as to who gets in. If you just look at the last five years, there are a lot of teams finishing 10-2, much less 11-1. Take 2013 for example. You would have Alabama (11-1) and Ohio St (12-1) ahead of a 10-2 Notre Dame. Then, you would have an 11-2 Missouri, plus 10-2 teams like Oklahoma, Oregon, and Clemson competing with Notre Dame for the final playoff spot. Notre Dame wouldn't be anywhere 100% guaranteed to get into the playoffs in that situation. Sorry, you're just wrong on that part.
Gene DeFilippo felt that way in 2011, but he was only about 6 years from being sued. He wanted to be "the" team from New England. The reality is that you need for New England to be interested in the first place, and that happens when there are regional rivalries that fans care about in New England. Boston College doesn't have any in the ACC like they have in Hockey East. They need one, and UConn could fill that roll. The new Boston College AD should not still feel the same way as Gene DeFelippo. BC needs a regional rival like everyone else in the ACC needs one.
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