Do we need to recruit a point guard?

[gary2]

I love Xaiver. How could you not love Xaiver? He is tough, fearless and blows by players and makes difficult finishes. He has to start (somewhere) and play big minutes.

Watching the games everything looks great, but you look at the box score and see very few assists and lots of turnovers. Some of that has to do with who he is passing to, some of it does not. Xaiver has 19 assists and 33 turnovers in conference play.

Would we be better off with Trey at the point OR:

Do we need to recruit a PG who can play immediately? Do we need a PG that is effective against the zone? (Someone said to expect nothing but zone). Do we need someone to actually run offense?

I think we do.

 

[PittPanther44]

I think if we had a strong finisher near the rim, those assists would go up

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Wouldn't hurt.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

I think we'll always recruit good guards because that's the way that Capel wants to build his team. But X will get coached, he will learn, and the assist/turnover ratio will improve. No need to replace him. More important to give him a supporting cast.

 

[Ski11585]

I don’t remember who said it first, but someone on the pay board made a very obvious yet important observation. We are really focused on whether or not Capel can secure big men recruits. But Pitt needs an injection of talent at every position, including PG. if the opportunity to snag a good PG recruit is there, I think Pitt needs to take it.

 

[MyNameisJoe]

One of the things I think I know - teams that make a deep run in the tourney typically have or do it on the backs of great guard play. There may be exceptions as there are to every rule, but think about what D-Wade did for Marquette. Curry did for Davidson. That damn Scottie Reynolds. Can never have enough.

 

[Ronnyp91]

Worst case we absolutely need to replace N’dir with another grad transfer guard.

 

[Pitt1992]

its kind of hard to get assists when most of your teammates have stone hands and are uncoordinated, when he throws to our big guys we have a 50/50 chance of them actually catching the ball

 

[pittbb80]

You need someone to back up X to give him some rest and in case of fouls. So yes they need another PG, they need another 2 to give Trey a break etc.........In other words you need to add depth for competition, injury, rest and foul trouble.

 

[JokePa]

I think one thing that’s easy to forget is that Xavier Johnson is a freshman. The kid is already really good but he’s going to get better.
I agree whenever you get a five star player you take him doesn’t matter what position they play and assuming Xavier gets better he might not even last four years here so of course we should always recruit.
But, I think going into this season, If someone told you this would be the performance of Xavier Johnson we would all be over the moon happy about it. I think the nuance being discussed here is is he a national championship caliber point guard, the answer to that is probably no but only because he is still a freshman and learning the position. I certainly think he could develop into that.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I think one thing that’s easy to forget is that Xavier Johnson is a freshman. The kid is already really good but he’s going to get better.
I agree whenever you get a five star player you take him doesn’t matter what position they play and assuming Xavier gets better he might not even last four years here so of course we should always recruit.
But, I think going into this season, If someone told you this would be the performance of Xavier Johnson we would all be over the moon happy about it. I think the nuance being discussed here is is he a national championship caliber point guard, the answer to that is probably no but only because he is still a freshman and learning the position. I certainly think he could develop into that.

We all wonder why X wasn’t ranked higher by the recruiting services and maybe this is why. Not sure how much point guard experience he has had, but Capel has said that he didn’t bring him here to PG. he thought McGowens was going to be that player and it kind of only worked out this way. How many people projected him as a high D1 PG?


So there’s two ways to look at it. A) you’ll see a drastic improvement in his PG play next year because of where his floor was this year, or B) he never will be that effective running the offense in that way because he doesn’t have that pedigree.

 

[gary2]

I think one thing that’s easy to forget is that Xavier Johnson is a freshman. The kid is already really good but he’s going to get better.
I agree whenever you get a five star player you take him doesn’t matter what position they play and assuming Xavier gets better he might not even last four years here so of course we should always recruit.
But, I think going into this season, If someone told you this would be the performance of Xavier Johnson we would all be over the moon happy about it. I think the nuance being discussed here is is he a national championship caliber point guard, the answer to that is probably no but only because he is still a freshman and learning the position. I certainly think he could develop into that.

I am extremely happy with all 3 freshmen. I think Toney can eventually make an all conference team. These kids are tough. They remind me of what we used to be.

I am not talking national champion caliber anything. Maybe we are forced to play nothing but one on one, beat the man in front of you because we are missing parts. I don't think that is the sole answer. I think that is the way these kids would play anyway.

Zones are currently taking that away from us. I am suggesting we need someone that will run some offense against a zone. Maybe if we showed we could score against zones, we would see less of them.

We need to do something else against zones. Positioning Ellison where we are is not the answer.

For this season, maybe more time for Trey or Ndir at the point, for next: recruit another point.

 

[JS School]

its kind of hard to get assists when most of your teammates have stone hands and are uncoordinated, when he throws to our big guys we have a 50/50 chance of them actually catching the ball

Not only that, if they do actually catch the ball they then have to put it in the basket. It feels like Pitt's big guys have their shots blocked half of the time.

 

[Drew1208]

We need everything, at every position, so it all helps.

 

[Ronnyp91]

Does anyone know anything about Curtis Aiken Jr? I think he’s redshirting right? Does he have a future playing for us?

 

[joeydavid]

He never played the point before getting to Pitt.

I like that Capel hasn't tried to temper X or Trey. Some coaches seem to want to make players into something they are not- and in the process they destroy what works for the player. No coach in particular, I mean...

We all wonder why X wasn’t ranked higher by the recruiting services and maybe this is why. Not sure how much point guard experience he has had, but Capel has said that he didn’t bring him here to PG. he thought McGowens was going to be that player and it kind of only worked out this way. How many people projected him as a high D1 PG?


So there’s two ways to look at it. A) you’ll see a drastic improvement in his PG play next year because of where his floor was this year, or B) he never will be that effective running the offense in that way because he doesn’t have that pedigree.

 

[DiehardPanther]

A combo guard that can knock down 3’s is needed.

 

[pittzap]

You need someone to back up X to give him some rest and in case of fouls. So yes they need another PG, they need another 2 to give Trey a break etc.........In other words you need to add depth for competition, injury, rest and foul trouble.

That's what I was thinking. You need several ball handlers, and Capel wants more guards than most teams. X has logged a lot of minutes this season, so we do need more. We need a shooter, a guy that can catch the ball and dunk when X and Trey drive and dish them the ball, and a rebounder. One player can rebound and finish. But we need a shooter who can also play defense to go along with him and the turnovers will be cut down.

 

[X2win]

I believe it was Louisville Pitt beat with Mcgowens running the point for a good chunk of the game. I know Pitt almost beat Iowa with Mcgowens at point because Johnson had foul trouble. So I'm going to say no. Pitt needs wings that can shoot badly from 3. Ellison cant shoot from 2 feet away. We need 2 legit shooting wings. And a big man that can catch the basketball without stone hand auto turnovers. The stone hands have really hurt Johnsons turnover numbers.

 

[gary2]

I believe it was Louisville Pitt beat with Mcgowens running the point for a good chunk of the game. I know Pitt almost beat Iowa with Mcgowens at point because Johnson had foul trouble. So I'm going to say no. Pitt needs wings that can shoot badly from 3. Ellison cant shoot from 2 feet away. We need 2 legit shooting wings. And a big man that can catch the basketball without stone hand auto turnovers. The stone hands have really hurt Johnsons turnover numbers.

I thought the same as you about the Louisville game. I see McGowens as a possibility for running the point.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I don’t remember who said it first, but someone on the pay board made a very obvious yet important observation. We are really focused on whether or not Capel can secure big men recruits. But Pitt needs an injection of talent at every position, including PG. if the opportunity to snag a good PG recruit is there, I think Pitt needs to take it.

Absolutely. The talent was so low, while these three freshman are fantastic, we could use help everywhere.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

You need someone to back up X to give him some rest and in case of fouls. So yes they need another PG, they need another 2 to give Trey a break etc.........In other words you need to add depth for competition, injury, rest and foul trouble.

Yes . You do need to find backups to replace Sidy N'Dir and Wilson-Frame so X and Trey have backups.

That being said, any seeming deficiencies X may have as a PG right now is a function of--

(1) Frontcourt players with weak hands and hops and/or lack of height.
(2) The attack the hoop style Coach Capel has asked X to play.
(3) The difficulty of working the ball inside against a zone when most of your frontcourt guys are not as long and tall as the zone defenders.
(3) A certain amount of Freshman inexperience.

Bottom line--we don't need to recruit a point guard to play immediately and put X on the bench as the new point guard's backup. We just need one to back-up X as Sidy N'Dir does now.

IMO, the opinion that X is not and won't be a quality point guard is way off base. With our current frontcourt make-up point guard skills are not the issue. Do we not understand how difficult it truly is to feed players in the paint when you are facing a defender taller than you and theguys you are feeding are shorter than the trees surrounding them? This is a structural issue not a point guard talent issue.

Despite this problem, we really improved our play vs Duke's zone in the 2nd half and that is very encouraging!

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Get real X is the point guard until he leaves . He’s a freshman playing with two other freshman and a limited front court . He’ll get better exponentially as both his decision making improves and the players surrounding him improve .
No freshman pg is coming here that could move the needle , they want to play and not be 10 min a game guy . In two yrs a good freshman pg is needed . A grad transfer is the answer for that position next season .
It’s very difficult to look good when playing teams that simply overwhelme you in talent . X is far and away the best freshman pg I’ve seen at Pitt period .

 

[gary2]

Yes . You do need to find backups to replace Sidy N'Dir and Wilson-Frame so X and Trey have backups.

That being said, any seeming deficiencies X may have as a PG right now is a function of--

(1) Frontcourt players with weak hands and hops and/or lack of height.
(2) The attack the hoop style Coach Capel has asked X to play.
(3) The difficulty of working the ball inside against a zone when most of your frontcourt guys are not as long and tall as the zone defenders.
(3) A certain amount of Freshman inexperience.

Bottom line--we don't need to recruit a point guard to play immediately and put X on the bench as the new point guard's backup. We just need one to back-up X as Sidy N'Dir does now.

I don't think anyone in this entire thread, suggested putting X on the bench. Cleary, that would be insane.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Yes . You do need to find backups to replace Sidy N'Dir and Wilson-Frame so X and Trey have backups.

That being said, any seeming deficiencies X may have as a PG right now is a function of--

(1) Frontcourt players with weak hands and hops and/or lack of height.
(2) The attack the hoop style Coach Capel has asked X to play.
(3) The difficulty of working the ball inside against a zone when most of your frontcourt guys are not as long and tall as the zone defenders.
(3) A certain amount of Freshman inexperience.

Bottom line--we don't need to recruit a point guard to play immediately and put X on the bench as the new point guard's backup. We just need one to back-up X as Sidy N'Dir does now.

Agreed. He is the PG until he done at Pitt.

Agree with your points, and I would another.

Because of the lack of talent, he is in a position to have to force things.

Seriously, if he was playing more conservatively the team would be scoring less because outside of Tre no one can make their own offense, you don't have a post offensive threat, etc., and they would be markedly less competitive.

IF they had guys who could score, he would be able to play more conservatively, have less turnovers.

But, he has to be in attack mode pretty much every time they come up the court when Trey is not attacking because if he didn't, they would completely go dry offensively.

As others noted, they have to add another strong swing guard to replace Ndir, next year, and I do suspect HCJC will recruit a quality PG cable guy in the 2020 class.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Yes. This team needs a big infusion of talent. Depth badly needed.

Any good player who wants to play here is welcome at this point. I hope Capel can get to a point where he can pick and choose a bit. But right now they need all the talented players they can get. PT will work itself out.

And of course a cpl bigs and a shooter are the most glaring needs. But a good PG can never be a bad thing.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

We all wonder why X wasn’t ranked higher by the recruiting services and maybe this is why. Not sure how much point guard experience he has had, but Capel has said that he didn’t bring him here to PG. he thought McGowens was going to be that player and it kind of only worked out this way. How many people projected him as a high D1 PG?


So there’s two ways to look at it. A) you’ll see a drastic improvement in his PG play next year because of where his floor was this year, or B) he never will be that effective running the offense in that way because he doesn’t have that pedigree.

X never played PG in HS or AAU

 

[President Stache]

Honestly if we get talented bigs you will see real improvement.

So many times we drive and dish only to have Brown or wookie drop the pass or miss a layup. those guys are playing admirable, but they are depth pieces. Its tough no matter the pg to make those guys look good.

btw, Brown kicks @ss on defense lately, so I like that.

 

[gary2]

Honestly if we get talented bigs you will see real improvement.

So many times we drive and dish only to have Brown or wookie drop the pass or miss a layup. those guys are playing admirable, but they are depth pieces. Its tough no matter the pg to make those guys look good.

btw, Brown kicks @ss on defense lately, so I like that.

Thought Brown played better yesterday than he did at Syracuse.

 

[President Stache]

Thought Brown played better yesterday than he did at Syracuse.

He has flashes of brilliance. I do think if we had a big and he was the guy off the bench, he would kick @ss in that role. He has been holding his own against most. He doesnt box out well though, and needs to.

 

[below0w]

We do need to recruit a point guard, but not because Xavier can't run the point. He'll be in the NBA in two years at most, so ideally you'd want an understudy on the roster next year.

Sometimes X tries to do too much, but his style would also be a lot more effective with an interior presence who can finish with consistency.

 

[gary2]

We do need to recruit a point guard, but not because Xavier can't run the point. He'll be in the NBA in two years at most, so ideally you'd want an understudy on the roster next year.

Sometimes X tries to do too much, but his style would also be a lot more effective with an interior presence who can finish with consistency.

I said I love Xaiver, but I don't know that he will be an NBA player. I see no way he leaves early.

 

[CougarClaws]

Yes . You do need to find backups to replace Sidy N'Dir and Wilson-Frame so X and Trey have backups.

That being said, any seeming deficiencies X may have as a PG right now is a function of--

(1) Frontcourt players with weak hands and hops and/or lack of height.
(2) The attack the hoop style Coach Capel has asked X to play.
(3) The difficulty of working the ball inside against a zone when most of your frontcourt guys are not as long and tall as the zone defenders.
(3) A certain amount of Freshman inexperience.

Bottom line--we don't need to recruit a point guard to play immediately and put X on the bench as the new point guard's backup. We just need one to back-up X as Sidy N'Dir does now.

IMO, the opinion that X is not and won't be a quality point guard is way off base. With our current frontcourt make-up point guard skills are not the issue. Do we not understand how difficult it truly is to feed players in the paint when you are facing a defender taller than you and theguys you are feeding are shorter than the trees surrounding them? This is a structural issue not a point guard talent issue.

Despite this problem, we really improved our play vs Duke's zone in the 2nd half and that is very encouraging!

Exactly.

And we don't "need" to recruit a PG. What we do need next year is another good shooting guard to give Trey a breather, and cover for him when he's giving X a breather. We owe Trey development time at PG.

 

[below0w]

I said I love Xaiver, but I don't know that he be an NBA player. I see no way he leaves early.

I guarantee that he does not play here for four years. That is not happening.

He's a true freshman point guard shooting 47% from the field and 40% from 3. He's incredibly athletic. The only real knock against him is that he doesn't have prototypical NBA size, but he's not small. He'd be getting some run as a late lottery pick if he were doing this at UNC or Duke. He's leaving early unless playing at Pitt for 4 years is really important to him.

 

[gary2]

I guarantee that he does not play here for four years. That is not happening.

He's a true freshman point guard shooting 47% from the field and 40% from 3. He's incredibly athletic. The only real knock against him is that he doesn't have prototypical NBA size, but he's not small. He'd be getting some run as a late lottery pick if he were doing this at UNC or Duke. He's leaving early unless playing at Pitt for 4 years is really important to him.

The NBA draft is what 2 rounds? Aren't a lot of the players taken either one and dones or foreign?

 

[below0w]

The NBA draft is what 2 rounds? Aren't a lot of the players taken either one and dones or foreign?

I'm not sure what your point is. We're talking about a true freshman who is a legit 1, not a combo guard, who's leading his ACC team in scoring at ~17 ppg and has excellent efficiency numbers. He's a great athlete, he can defend and he has an above average frame (by NBA standards). What about his profile suggests that NBA teams won't be very interested in him very soon?

 

[CougarClaws]

I said I love Xaiver, but I don't know that he will be an NBA player. I see no way he leaves early.

Not everyone can project a players growth into the future. X & Brown will both be much much better players next season because of the excellent coaching they are recieving, and the incoming talent upgrade around them.

And don't forget - most players make their biggest leap forward going from their freshman to sophomore years. Trey is unlikely to play a 4th year hear IMO.

 

[gary2]

I'm not sure what your point is. We're talking about a true freshman who is a legit 1, not a combo guard, who's leading his ACC team in scoring at ~17 ppg and has excellent efficiency numbers. He's a great athlete, he can defend and he has an above average frame (by NBA standards). What about his profile suggests that NBA teams won't be very interested in him very soon?

I will admit that I could be very wrong, but I don't believe many players fitting X's profile are drafted in the first round and if you are not in the first round your chances are greatly reduced.

You may well be right. I guess we will see.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

I love Xaiver. How could you not love Xaiver? He is tough, fearless and blows by players and makes difficult finishes. He has to start (somewhere) and play big minutes.

Watching the games everything looks great, but you look at the box score and see very few assists and lots of turnovers. Some of that has to do with who he is passing to, some of it does not. Xaiver has 19 assists and 33 turnovers in conference play.

Would we be better off with Trey at the point OR:

Do we need to recruit a PG who can play immediately? Do we need a PG that is effective against the zone? (Someone said to expect nothing but zone). Do we need someone to actually run offense?

I think we do.

No, Xavier will get it little by little. Also, as others mentioned, it helps when you have guys that can catch his passes and don't miss bunnies.

 

[gary2]

I'm not sure what your point is. We're talking about a true freshman who is a legit 1, not a combo guard, who's leading his ACC team in scoring at ~17 ppg and has excellent efficiency numbers. He's a great athlete, he can defend and he has an above average frame (by NBA standards). What about his profile suggests that NBA teams won't be very interested in him very soon?

I looked alt the 2018 NBA draft. You are right. There were players drafted that Xaiver could approximate.