Pitt will put the new stadium, errr, I mean the new School of Information and Computing there. Among other stuff.
Door open to close Bigelow near Cathedral?
- Thread starter TIGER-PAUL
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Pitt will put the new stadium, errr, I mean the new School of Information and Computing there. Among other stuff.
You're right. It was an awesome decision. One we will surely come to not regret in time. We're not there yet a quarter century after the fact but I am confident we will get there on day. Why would Pitt need an old building like that anyway?
I feel the same way about the Cathedral of Learning. How much money have we sunk into that old pile of rubble? We could tear that down, save a ton of cash in the process and build a massive parking lot in its place - enough to close Bigelow permanently and not miss any parking whatsoever!
way to be dramatic, geno, and not even answer my question
Most likely because he knew they would be removing parking from S. Bouquet to accommodate the traffic that could no longer use Bigelow to get to South Oakland. People do park on S. Bouquet when making a quick stop at the O. Oakland could use a few more garages for long term parking, with on street parking reserved for short term parkers that need to patronize the businesses on Forbes Ave.
Parking is always the big issue when they talk about closing it, and you're right the owner of the "O" did say it would hurt business. Bigelow is closed all the time for campus events anyways so I doubt it would make much of a difference just like the traffic study they did showed. I would think taking a look at Bellefield & S Bouquet to mitigate the effects would be smart.
Know a bunch of students that want to close Bigelow and get more green space on campus. What if people blocked off traffic for a few days? Not illegal if a bunch of people keep crossing the street on the crosswalk, and the city would have to do something about it (just sell the area to Pitt)
I realize that this would create additional traffic for another block and the turn around back to Fifth very busy BUT the green space to Pitt would be invaluable.
This is the first positive discussion of the issue that has been made public since 1996.
But then there is this nugget:
Oakland Planing and Development Corp. likes the idea of the bike lanes moving forward but to support closing Bigelow “would take a lot of convincing,” assistant director Elly Fisher said.
OPDC...currently has $3 million in debt and receives substantial funding from Pitt and UPMC...and has historically been a pain in Pitt's ass. Although Pitt has worked hard over the last 20 years to smooth relations with the community through it. Time to cash in some chips.
Board of Directors
Kevin Stiles,
President
Joe Divack,
Vice President
Lauren Bachorski,
Secretary
Ryan O’Donnell,
Treasurer
Jesse Ayllon-Barba
Andrea Boykowycz
Peter Brewton
Julia Erickson
Abass Kamara
Janice Markowitz
Jake Oresick
Laura Swiss
Jason Vrabel
You could just bury Fifth. Both have been proposed previously.
If anyone has ever been to DC...to any of the major traffic circles (like DuPont Circle)...you can see how major roads have been diverted underneath the topside traffic circles/parks. That could be done. It wouldn't be cheap, but it is completely doable.
In fact, about a decade ago I did a mock up on what it could be like (forgive the how dated it is): https://web.archive.org/web/2014071...zypaco.hostbyet2.com/campusplan/Pittplan.html
Well, it was a lot of businesses along the Fifth-Forbes block of Bouquet (where street parking was to be eliminated in 1996) that complained about that (like Oakland Typewriter)....and they're all largely gone now.
On the old Burger King plot, where there is a parklet and metered parking lot now across Bouquet from Tower C, Pitt originally conceived of building a new dorm. However, when they attempted to close Bigelow in the mid-90s, they created that parking lot to appease the business along Bouquet who complained about losing street parking. It didn't stop them from complaining. The lot has remained, and most of the business are gone (their former buildings now replaced by what is the digital plaza across from the "O" and next to the Castle). The argument about parking along Bouquet is now, absolutely, a hollow one.
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Pitt wanted to renovate and re-purpose the Syria Mosque like it did for the Masonic Temple, University Club, Concordia Club, YMHA, Schenley Hotel, Schenley Apartments, Ruskin Apartments, National Union Fire Insurance Building, Central Turnverein, the Holland mansion, Municipal Hospital, First Church of Christ Scientist, and the original Mellon Institute building. It intending to use it as a major academic/performance meeting venue. Remember at the time it didn't have an arena or Alumni Hall and held all of its commencements off campus.
And it's won major awards for preservation for many of those. It's a great testament to Pitt in preserving the architectural heritage of the Schenley Farms National Historic District.
The demolition of the Syria Mosque was a significant architectural loss for Oakland and the University. Unfortunately, the medical center and Pitt didn't know they were bidding against each other, and UPMC never realized their plan to build and office building there anyway because they moved into the US Steel building.
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They were involved. They were outbid by UPMC. They didn't know each other was bidding at the time. It was an issue that has been corrected since.
Pitt's plan was to re-purpose it but keep it as a large meeting/concert/auditorium venue for things like commencement. This was when the Pete was still a pipedream and the basketball area a much smaller project.
At any rate, this potential closing of Bigelow is a potentially huge development for Pitt.
However, as I said earlier, it needs to be closed for good, not just during certain hours of the day. Pitt's campus would DRAMATICALLY benefit from a true campus green between the Cathedral of Learning and the William Pitt Student Union. You throw in some brick or cobblestone crosswalks, plant some trees and put up a decoratiove wall or cemetery gate and you'll have a winner.
In return we allow a bike path to run though there? No problemo.
However, if it is a bike path in exchange for a two hour closure each morning or something like that, then Pitt needs to play hardball.
If you have ever been to Michigan or Harvard you can envision what something like this would look like. Harvard especially is every bit as urban as Pitt and they have done a magnificent job of creating the illusion of being on an isolated campus right in the middle of the city. It is an amazing place to visit.
It really would change the way Pitt is presented on television, in brochures, etc. It would be a really big deal.
Every single urban school that I know of has closed significant roads...much more significant than Bigelow...except Pitt. Usually they're closed with help and fanfare from the community....not for Pitt.
No, I get that. Also, when I recently read that I was thrilled. That really is going to be big for the University of Pittsburgh.
However, it is still 25 years later and we are still in the planning stages for that facility.
Had we wisely preserved the Mosque, like we later did some of the others Paco illustrated, we could've found another space to build that facility and we would have two points of pride rather than just one.
No matter how anyone slices it, it was a big, big mistake to tear down such a historic venue that could've been of great use to the University of Pittsburgh.
Also, for the fifth time in this thread, closing off Bigelow is a game changer – but it needs to be permanent. Some sort of part-time arrangement where they build a little grass island and it's mostly open to traffic is insufficient and will not get it done.
You mean like these?
Pieces of garbage – one and all. Why would Pitt invest in those old buildings that have long outlived their usefulness? Imagine all the parking we could create if we just tore those old piles of rubble down.
Ferlo was very anti Pitt, big d2ckhead. Fitzgerald is a nitter, so was Onorato. And the media is beyond deplorable . Pitt should really move to Cranberry . I wouldn't put it past UPMC to do so at some point to stick it to the city
I've said this many times, if you could put the Cathedral on wheels, Pitt would have located to a completely different state years ago.
I've worked at a lot of different schools...all urban... and I've never seen one treated so poorly by the local governments, media, and populous (at least in the last 30 years).
Well, with UPMC's northward expansion, I wouldn't put it past Romoff to stick it to the city and move the headquarters to Cranberry. Could probably get a better deal from them and would really screw the city with it's signature tower 75% vacant.
It's the culture. I know you rank Pittsburgh ahead of those other places, but they all treat their universities better.
Wow, I like it, all of it. My only question would be vehicle/delivery access for some of the buildings like Clapp, etc... But, even if the side streets like Tennyson and Lytton were to remain open and dead end, the quad plan is certainly impressive. I don't think the city would ever go for closing Bigelow and Bellefield but they should consider it given what Pitt does for this city. Pitt needs to be aggressive on the eastern edge of campus given the inroads CMU has made into the Craig St. corridor. The school district building would be a huge acquisition and one I think we get someday.
The only people totally screwed in this design are the out of towners who take a wrong turn down Forbes and need to go all the way down to Dithridge or Craig to come back down Fifth.
Yup, it would be mine too. I was hit twice as a student back in the 90s due to people blowing red lights/stop signs. Anything to keep as many cars as possible away from the center of campus is a good thing (realizing constraints due to Pitt being an urban campus).
There's been a lot of work done for pedestrians to make things safer like improved intersections. I wish would could get rid of the counter-flow bus lane on 5th. That almost got me my first year here.
I don't know of any other city that has a counter flow bus lane. It is bizarre. Pittsburgh public transportation is absolutely at the bottom of the barrel.
I witnessed a man in a wheelchair get hit on Bigelow when I was there. Shutting that down is 60 years overdue.
My mistake. If I remember correctly you think that Pittsburgh is better than Philly, Miami, DC, (and perhaps other places) but that San Francisco would be above Pittsburgh. But Put Pittsburgh treats it's universities worse than perhaps all of those places.
Yeah, I would say of those places you listed that I've lived, of which those are all cities that I've spent multiple years in, Pittsburgh is definitely a better city than Miami, apart from weather and water. Hands down the 'burgh is better.
Philly and DC are hard to compare because they are so much bigger. Philly's advantage, IMO, is only its size and geographic location, but I wouldn't call it "better." DC has so much free stuff and cultural activities because of the Smithsonians and other government-related things going on, but it doesn't really have a sense of itself like other cities. It is very transient by its nature and without much of its own indigenous character.
It is more fair to compare Pittsburgh to cities of comparable size, maybe like Portland, which I think is blown away by the 'burgh.
San Francisco blows them all away. Best city in the states, IMO. Worst part is the continual fog/cold and extreme cost of living.
Not sure if I can agree about Pittsburgh vs Portland. I loved everything about Portland, save from the pervasive smug hipster vibe.
actually this even happened in Pittsburgh as the main academic walk through campus at Duquesne was formerly a street open to cars but the name escapes me at the moment.
Portland and Pittsburgh are similar in that they are mid-sized, inland, river cities. Portland, to me, was a much more expensive, much less diverse, more culturally vapid, less architecturally interesting, less visually striking, and more congested version of Pittsburgh.
Portland's advantage is weather and proximity to wine country, Mt Hood, and the coast. But that isn't really the city. Not that Portland is a bad city, I just think, in the city, Pittsburgh has more going for it...history, culture, architecture, better and more cultural amenities, more interesting neighborhoods, much better universities, more diversity.
Portland is like the less expensive alternative urban location to live in the Northwest, but if wasn't the only place to flee more expensive San Francisco and Seattle, I don't think anyone would ever be hearing about it. Pittsburgh is a nicer city, IMHO, and much more livable in the city, and absolutely much more authentic.
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I'd be willing to bet that if/when Pitt "greened" the Bigelow area between Fifth and Forbes, the overwhelming response would be, "Why in the hell didn't we do this sooner?"
And some of those saying it would be those who argued against it, but they'd be at the head-of-the-line taking credit for it.
I mean, do we need a counter flow bus lane? Couldn't those people catch the bus on Forbes?
Tearing down Syria Mosque and replacing it with a parking lot was one of the dumber moves in Oakland.
At any rate, this potential closing of Bigelow is a potentially huge development for Pitt.
However, as I said earlier, it needs to be closed for good, not just during certain hours of the day. Pitt's campus would DRAMATICALLY benefit from a true campus green between the Cathedral of Learning and the William Pitt Student Union. You throw in some brick or cobblestone crosswalks, plant some trees and put up a decoratiove wall or cemetery gate and you'll have a winner.
In return we allow a bike path to run though there? No problemo.
However, if it is a bike path in exchange for a two hour closure each morning or something like that, then Pitt needs to play hardball.
If you have ever been to Michigan or Harvard you can envision what something like this would look like. Harvard especially is every bit as urban as Pitt and they have done a magnificent job of creating the illusion of being on an isolated campus right in the middle of the city. It is an amazing place to visit.
It really would change the way Pitt is presented on television, in brochures, etc. It would be a really big deal.
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