You just might be correct. Cignetti’s play calling must cause one to lock in on one receiver, and not make any progression reads.
A new play caller at BYU should solve that.
Fortunate to have Duzz and FCJ!
- Thread starter steelcurtain55.
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A new play caller at BYU should solve that.
The only think I can think of is Slovis probably looks great in Practice while wearing a red Jersey. Also, Patti's injury was likeky worse than we thought.
Slovis was like statue back there. You can't have a statue in college football anymore. It just severely hampers options for the offense. Slovis will always be a pocket passer. If BYU'S line can give him a solid pocket, he will do fine. If not, he will struggle.
Fcj called a designed screen pass to get Daniel Carter out in open space. Any game that involves that kind of play call was a bad game
Had he cut it in, he would have had a nice gain too. You want Carter running wheel routes???
I’m excited to see what it looks like with Jurkovec and the weapons we’ll have around him. It didn’t look great at times, but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since it led to 9 wins.
I’m most happy for Nick Patti about that win yesterday. Also for Ben Sauls.
And yeah, yesterday sure does raise some questions why Nick was given zero chance back when we were going through that stretch of terrible offense and WTF losses. Not as good a passer but his change of pace mobility back then could have really helped.
Easy to ask that now with 20-20 hindsight but many were asking the same question back then.
I have no doubt Slovis looks great in practice wearing a red jersey. So it's probably hard to look past that when picking a QB.
My guess is that Patti was still hurt while Slovis was playing Jabroni for several games. When Patti finally was healthy, Slovis was playing better so they stayed with him.
Pretty clear Slovis wasn't in their plans next year though.
Patti had been around for over 3 years. The HC had essentially made the decision that Patti wasn't in his plans going forward when he went out and got Slovis in the portal. Outside of an injury where Slovis couldn't play, I don't think they were going to pull him.
Pretty obvious that FCJ feels more comfortable with a mobile QB and felt hamstrung a little by Slovis.
The thing is, we’ve already seen Slovis in a non-FCJ offense. It’s not like it’s a mystery how he will perform.
According to PFF, he graded out as a solid, legit P5 starter all 3 years in college before FCJ.
The people now pretending like he sucks and he was the problem with the offense, were the same people hyping how good he was going to be because of how he performed at USC. There were posters talking about how he was the most accurate QB in USC history.
If you dig into the numbers, he wasn't all that good at USC. Air raid QBs always put up numbers, but it doesn't really mean all that much.
He had early round picks on his line and at WR. Still couldn't get it done. He regressed during his time there. The signs were all there for anyone who wanted to be objective and look.
I think he stunk here and was an issue with the offense, but I was never high on him to begin with.
Less head scratching than a delay of game on the first play of the game
I dug into the numbers. I spent the summer getting called an undercover troll because I accurately predicted what would happen here, based on what the numbers showed at USC.
But the numbers do show Slovis was at least a “good” QB. Even after one digs into them.
I just found the whole “lets see how Slovis plays away from FCJ” question to be an odd one, since we have 3 years of that scenario.
He never regressed. PFF graded him out as the exact same QB every year. The numbers changed based on the talent around him. But he himself didn’t get worse. He just never got better either.
I think Slovis was a limited QB at USC. The analytics showed he had a very low average depth of throw. And threw a high rate of INT worthy passes. To me that indicated a QB that didn’t go through reads/wasn’t comfortable in the pocket.
I thought that was going to be a bad combo in FCJ’s offense because the offense is more complicated than an Air Raid. So you’re taking a guy that had trouble reading “See Spot Run,” and now asking him to read “War and Peace.”
But all of that still says just as much about FCJ as it does about Slovis.
Here’s the concerning analytic “deep dive” as it relates to FCJ’s offense and PJ, that kind of speaks to Slovis as well:
PJ was one of the 10 worst passers in 2020 when playing within the structure of FCJ’s offense.
Not one of the 10 worst P5 QBs. 10 worst in *all* of FBS.
It’s only when the plays broke down and PJ turned the play into a backyard sandlot play, that he graded out as a good QB.
And 2020 is the year everybody is pointing to as proof of FCJ as a QB whisperer and evidence that his offense can work with the right QB.
I think some of you’ll are being too hard on Slovis and not fully acknowledging the burden that is FCJ’s offense for a QB.
PJ was one of the 10 worst passers in 2020 when playing within the structure of FCJ’s offense.
Not one of the 10 worst P5 QBs. 10 worst in *all* of FBS.
It’s only when the plays broke down and PJ turned the play into a backyard sandlot play, that he graded out as a good QB.
And 2020 is the year everybody is pointing to as proof of FCJ as a QB whisperer and evidence that his offense can work with the right QB.
I think some of you’ll are being too hard on Slovis and not fully acknowledging the burden that is FCJ’s offense for a QB.
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Burden? What Burden did Patti have vs. UCLA?
Burden? Jurkovec was considered a 1st round pick going into the 2023 season.
https://www.si.com/college/bostonco...23-odds#gid=ci02a03cf650002793&pid=bryceyoung
https://247sports.com/college/bosto...Jurkovec-Atlanta-Falcons-Matt-Ryan-180828311/
Given a couple of the other QBs this draft analyst had in his top-10, he was really anticipating huge leaps from guys, including Jurkovec, this past season.
Right.
PJ was a 5* prospect. He has insane physical talent. And people expected him to progress from his 2020 season and stop just being a backyard football player. It never happened.
And those same talking heads were talking about Slovis is someone that could be a breakout QB for this year as well.
Hell, I’m sure the poster shared articles this past summer making those arguments about Slovis in defense of how good a QB Slovis was.
There’s a lot of revisionist history going on with some posters.
Some guys love analytics. Guys like Belichick and Saban laugh at them. Both have said how in the world can some outside agency understand context when they, themselves often can't grade their own guys until they sit down and sort things out. Much of that comes from actually getting with the players and not just pure film.
Of course none of this is true.
Saban actually says the opposite. He freely admits that he himself by his nature is not an analytic guy. He’s at heart a defensive coach that wants to run the ball 50 times, play field position, and win 14-10. He admits that.
But he has also said that you have to use analytics today, because his style of football is dead.
The difference between a good quarterback and a bad quarterback is what happens when a play break breaks down. Last thing I want is a programmed robot.
I know we're not dealing with Einsteins, but learning an offense isn't rocket science either. And nobody is pointing at FCJ as a quarterback whisperer.
I can't think of a game where I'd say Slovis won it, but I can think of two that he lost with poor play.
Then why does FCJ seem to be struggling to teach it to somebody?
We all agree that Slovis struggled with it this year. The question is why? Is that a Slovis problem or FCJ offense problem?
The issue I have with the “Slovis” argument is that Slovis, despite his issues reading an Air Raid, was still able to perform well in that offense.
And PJ also struggled when it came to learning the concepts.
2020:
Along with that, the 6-foot-5, 226-pound mobile passer produced a 77.0 passing grade when creating out of structure, a top-five mark in the FBS. But when inside the structure of the offense, Jurkovec struggled. He had the ninth-worst negatively graded throw rate in the FBS when playing in rhythm.
2021:
The problem was that he was an unchanged quarterback. He posted the highest big-time throw rate but the fifth-worst turnover-worthy play rate in the FBS over that span, in addition to a clean pocket passing grade that ranked 86th among the same group
Basically, in two years under FCJ, when PJ had to sit in the pocket and read what was happening, he was absolutely clueless. It’s only when he said “f*ck this” and let his physical talent take over and he just hero balled it, that he looked good.
That’s 3 straight years of FCJ QBs. None of which were exactly trash. Both are guys that physically were getting 1st rounder type talk. And both struggle with this system.
You're way too focused on parsed analytics. How do you know why he "hero" balled it? How the hell does PFF know exactly what's in the structure of Cignetti's offense?
Pitt scored 31 points per game this year, with a QB most are happy is gone and a WR group that didn't scare anyone.
Pitt scored 31 points per game this year, with a QB most are happy is gone and a WR group that didn't scare anyone.
It’s also weird to be like, “if you do a deep dive into the analytics, you’ll find Slovis actually sucked at USC,” and then be like, “I think you might be diving too deep into the analytics here.”
That's not what I said, but feel free to continue. Actually I didn't look at any analytics.
and yet every single NFL team either has in-house analytics teams or contract out to one of the analytics firms. The last time I checked, every Power-5 team has contracts for bespoke analytics packages through Pro Football Focus. No one is saying these firms are 100% accurate or that you should completely base your decisions on what they say, but they are absolutely a tool that almost every team uses.
Belichick might say that he laughs at them, but the Patriots head of personnel for more than a decade has spoken at length about the team's use of analytics and has said it's close to 50/50 of their personnel decision making. Alabama has (or at least had) analytics firm Kitman Labs on payroll for health and performance evaluations of their players. I'd bet if you opened Alabama weekly scouting reports you'd find pages of it.
In 2019, He threw for 3500 yds with 30 TDs and 9 INTs. In 2021, he threw for 2150 with 11 TDs and 8 INTs. He was benched in favor of Jaxon freakin' Dart. His production clearly took a nosedive. You can make a valid argument that he was the beneficiary of and absolutely stacked receiving corps at USC in 2019.
It's sad actually. The dude throws a beautiful ball and can make all the throws, but when the pads are on and the bullets are live, he just doesn't have it. But the real troubling thing is that he doesn't seem to get any better, regardless of coach and regardless of system. A whole season and he showed very little progress. I really thought he would show some progress by mid-October. Never really materialized though.
In house analytics vs some company who was based out of the UK with guys who never played a down of football are completely different things.
In house analytics have been done for decades. No one who has ever coached a down would be against them because they know the context. Not related to analytics but I remember Ron Jaworski and Steve Young getting ripped at times by coaches and players when they were issuing "grades" or even commentary because they didn't know exactly what a specific progression was.
Yes, and that's why PFF and other "guys that never played a down" do not give grades for "progression reading" though they may try to explain it through the various measurable stats.
How long did the QB have a clean pocket before he threw the ball?
What is his Time to Throw with a clean pocket vs under pressure, completions vs incompletions, play action vs not?
How often does the qb avoid a sack under pressure?
Did the pass hit the dirt 5 yards behind/beyond the receiver?
Did the pass hit the receiver's hands or body?
Does the ball hit a receiver's hands substantially more often when throwing to the left versus right?
How about when throwing 10 yards downfield vs 20 yards down field?
etc.
These are all things that can be quantified by people with little/no football playing experience and none of them require any inside knowledge of assignments to be 90%+ accurate. I'm sure most of the teams that use these services aren't looking at "grades" as much as they are looking at the raw percentages, but to everyone else a grade is a far easier way for them to issue an evaluation.
No one is saying these services are infallible or replace actual film study and no one is saying that there aren't positions that are much harder to quantify, but they are an invaluable tool for virtually every professional program.
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