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Heinz silently continues to haunt Pitt football

Panther Al

Walk-on
Aug 31, 2008
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Nobody blamed Heinz Field after yesterday's disappointing loss and now its all the coaches fault. Right? Before I argue my point, I want to be clear that yesterday was absolutely on Duzz and unacceptable however Heinz Field is still absolutely the biggest problem with Pitt football. Players play coaches coach. Coaching means more than everything in football vs any sport however do you really think the Steelers would be winning and competing for championships year after year without Ben, AB and Bell. No way and yes as much as I love Connor, to be fair he's not Bell.

As I've said countless times, Pitt will always be a 6-6/7-5/8-4 team with the current setup which is mediocre and gets you an annual useless toilet bowl & makes nobody happy. Pitt needs to take its $25M to $30M a year from ACC (will take a lot more $) and start investing this $ in a NEW stadium plan on campus either in the OC lot area or Panther hollow. Announce a stadium initiative and if you get $200 from a 1M alums that's a good start & not unreasonable at all. I'm sorry but we need to relocate the baseball or other Pitt buildings in that area because football is the reason you get $25M to $30M from the ACC and every other Pitt sport is funded by it outside of hoops. As I've also said multiple times, if you want to seriously compete for ACC championships you need 8 to 10 4/5 star recruits consistently a year and right now we don't have enough elite players to get us to that next level. We get 1 or 2 a year consistently. Perfect example yesterday was when 4 star Tyler Boyd was on the field. The other corners couldn't cover him. Our current guys are nice 3 star players but couldn't get open yesterday like him. We can argue about outperforming 3 stars like Donald, Revis, etc. along with 4/5 stars busts which I get but there is a reason why the recruiting rankings work MAJORITY of the time. There will always be a team or two who define the odds like Wisconsin but if you want a sure thing in recruiting we need to make the change. I'm tired of hearing about the high ceiling players who reminds us of this elite 4/5 player because that formula has proven it DOESN'T work. If the Pitt coaches were so smart and it did work, all of the other top school would be doing the same thing but instead they get 4/5 star players like Boyd or Shady. All you need to do is look at Penn State when they went on probation. Recruiting went way downhill & hurt the program. Look at their recruiting rankings the last 3 to 4 years and where they are at today. Many argue Franklin isn't great coach but is a great recruiter however you tie it with their on campus atmosphere & its a home run. Whether you like it or not, atmosphere means everything to elite 4/5 start players because we compete against PSU, UM, ND and OSU for many of the top players. 4/5 star recruits visit Heinz or watch the yellow empty atmosphere on TV. Then they go to those other schools mentioned and we lose almost every time. We need the right size stadium and am fine with 55,000 seats which would be the perfect for Pitt. We don't need 100K fans nor could we ever get them which is a 100% fine. Stop saying we can't do it as that's pure denial of the problem because if you accept the current setup we might as well be in the MAC conference. Heinz Morgue vs those neighboring top school atmospheres is losing situation for us and am not sure why many can't see this because we see the same results year after year regardless of the coach.

I know firing the coach will always make fans happy today however nothing is going to change unless we make the biggest change. I'd argue that we should have never fired Wanny who is pro Pitt as anyone but it doesn't matter. Yes, his coaching was bad at times as well. Plus, we are never getting an elite coach because they know its impossible to recruit in this current setup and nobody plays or is building off campus facilities. Miami wants out of Dolphin Stadium while USF and Temple are VERY close to new stadiums (google and read the articles on pro stadiums). Change is critical in any business and we need Lyke to get this done. H2P!
 
Nobody blamed Heinz Field after yesterday's disappointing loss and now its all the coaches fault. Right? Before I argue my point, I want to be clear that yesterday was absolutely on Duzz and unacceptable however Heinz Field is still absolutely the biggest problem with Pitt football. Players play coaches coach. Coaching means more than everything in football vs any sport however do you really think the Steelers would be winning and competing for championships year after year without Ben, AB and Bell. No way and yes as much as I love Connor, to be fair he's not Bell.

As I've said countless times, Pitt will always be a 6-6/7-5/8-4 team with the current setup which is mediocre and gets you an annual useless toilet bowl & makes nobody happy. Pitt needs to take its $25M to $30M a year from ACC (will take a lot more $) and start investing this $ in a NEW stadium plan on campus either in the OC lot area or Panther hollow. Announce a stadium initiative and if you get $200 from a 1M alums that's a good start & not unreasonable at all. I'm sorry but we need to relocate the baseball or other Pitt buildings in that area because football is the reason you get $25M to $30M from the ACC and every other Pitt sport is funded by it outside of hoops. As I've also said multiple times, if you want to seriously compete for ACC championships you need 8 to 10 4/5 star recruits consistently a year and right now we don't have enough elite players to get us to that next level. We get 1 or 2 a year consistently. Perfect example yesterday was when 4 star Tyler Boyd was on the field. The other corners couldn't cover him. Our current guys are nice 3 star players but couldn't get open yesterday like him. We can argue about outperforming 3 stars like Donald, Revis, etc. along with 4/5 stars busts which I get but there is a reason why the recruiting rankings work MAJORITY of the time. There will always be a team or two who define the odds like Wisconsin but if you want a sure thing in recruiting we need to make the change. I'm tired of hearing about the high ceiling players who reminds us of this elite 4/5 player because that formula has proven it DOESN'T work. If the Pitt coaches were so smart and it did work, all of the other top school would be doing the same thing but instead they get 4/5 star players like Boyd or Shady. All you need to do is look at Penn State when they went on probation. Recruiting went way downhill & hurt the program. Look at their recruiting rankings the last 3 to 4 years and where they are at today. Many argue Franklin isn't great coach but is a great recruiter however you tie it with their on campus atmosphere & its a home run. Whether you like it or not, atmosphere means everything to elite 4/5 start players because we compete against PSU, UM, ND and OSU for many of the top players. 4/5 star recruits visit Heinz or watch the yellow empty atmosphere on TV. Then they go to those other schools mentioned and we lose almost every time. We need the right size stadium and am fine with 55,000 seats which would be the perfect for Pitt. We don't need 100K fans nor could we ever get them which is a 100% fine. Stop saying we can't do it as that's pure denial of the problem because if you accept the current setup we might as well be in the MAC conference. Heinz Morgue vs those neighboring top school atmospheres is losing situation for us and am not sure why many can't see this because we see the same results year after year regardless of the coach.

I know firing the coach will always make fans happy today however nothing is going to change unless we make the biggest change. I'd argue that we should have never fired Wanny who is pro Pitt as anyone but it doesn't matter. Yes, his coaching was bad at times as well. Plus, we are never getting an elite coach because they know its impossible to recruit in this current setup and nobody plays or is building off campus facilities. Miami wants out of Dolphin Stadium while USF and Temple are VERY close to new stadiums (google and read the articles on pro stadiums). Change is critical in any business and we need Lyke to get this done. H2P!
Why was 1990-96 the worst stretch of Pitt football in my lifetime if an on-campus stadium solves everything?
 
I just don't get the on campus stadium thing at all . If I'm a great high school player I'm going to be far more impressed by playing in the stadium where my idols play . You think 55,000 are showing up in Oakland to see this level of Fb ?
Pitt needs to figure out how to recruit better players and
win . Spend a small fraction of your stadium money on a coach ,staff and players ...way better investment than building and maintaining a Fb stadium .
 
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Sigh. We've been through this soooooo many times. Yes, Heinz is a disaster. The problems didn't start with the Heinz decision. It started in the 60's when Pitt allowed Pitt Stadium to fall into such bad shape. Its too late. We no longer have the alumni or fan base to build anything but a 30K stadium on a bare bones sub $100 million budget. Like everything else associated with Pitt football, that would be a joke. Who knows what the idiots in Oakland would give us? Their main goal is to make PSU football great.
 
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55k is too big! About 48 - 50k perfect. And kids don’t care about Steelers playing at Heinz Field. The stadium is part of the problem for Pitt period!
I disagree , in any sport playing where the pros play means something and playing on an on campus stadium means what to anyone ? Did Pitt ever sell out their stadium ?

Tell me where your finding parking for 50,000 people in Oakland and how about the traffic in and out .
People want to romanticize about an on campus stadium , but forget how horrible it was to get to and from the games .
Winning brings the excitement nothing else .



The Pete is a great on campus facility and it was empty because the play sucked ...It's not HF that's the problem !
 
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Nobody blamed Heinz Field after yesterday's disappointing loss and now its all the coaches fault. Right? Before I argue my point, I want to be clear that yesterday was absolutely on Duzz and unacceptable however Heinz Field is still absolutely the biggest problem with Pitt football. Players play coaches coach. Coaching means more than everything in football vs any sport however do you really think the Steelers would be winning and competing for championships year after year without Ben, AB and Bell. No way and yes as much as I love Connor, to be fair he's not Bell.

As I've said countless times, Pitt will always be a 6-6/7-5/8-4 team with the current setup which is mediocre and gets you an annual useless toilet bowl & makes nobody happy. Pitt needs to take its $25M to $30M a year from ACC (will take a lot more $) and start investing this $ in a NEW stadium plan on campus either in the OC lot area or Panther hollow. Announce a stadium initiative and if you get $200 from a 1M alums that's a good start & not unreasonable at all. I'm sorry but we need to relocate the baseball or other Pitt buildings in that area because football is the reason you get $25M to $30M from the ACC and every other Pitt sport is funded by it outside of hoops. As I've also said multiple times, if you want to seriously compete for ACC championships you need 8 to 10 4/5 star recruits consistently a year and right now we don't have enough elite players to get us to that next level. We get 1 or 2 a year consistently. Perfect example yesterday was when 4 star Tyler Boyd was on the field. The other corners couldn't cover him. Our current guys are nice 3 star players but couldn't get open yesterday like him. We can argue about outperforming 3 stars like Donald, Revis, etc. along with 4/5 stars busts which I get but there is a reason why the recruiting rankings work MAJORITY of the time. There will always be a team or two who define the odds like Wisconsin but if you want a sure thing in recruiting we need to make the change. I'm tired of hearing about the high ceiling players who reminds us of this elite 4/5 player because that formula has proven it DOESN'T work. If the Pitt coaches were so smart and it did work, all of the other top school would be doing the same thing but instead they get 4/5 star players like Boyd or Shady. All you need to do is look at Penn State when they went on probation. Recruiting went way downhill & hurt the program. Look at their recruiting rankings the last 3 to 4 years and where they are at today. Many argue Franklin isn't great coach but is a great recruiter however you tie it with their on campus atmosphere & its a home run. Whether you like it or not, atmosphere means everything to elite 4/5 start players because we compete against PSU, UM, ND and OSU for many of the top players. 4/5 star recruits visit Heinz or watch the yellow empty atmosphere on TV. Then they go to those other schools mentioned and we lose almost every time. We need the right size stadium and am fine with 55,000 seats which would be the perfect for Pitt. We don't need 100K fans nor could we ever get them which is a 100% fine. Stop saying we can't do it as that's pure denial of the problem because if you accept the current setup we might as well be in the MAC conference. Heinz Morgue vs those neighboring top school atmospheres is losing situation for us and am not sure why many can't see this because we see the same results year after year regardless of the coach.

I know firing the coach will always make fans happy today however nothing is going to change unless we make the biggest change. I'd argue that we should have never fired Wanny who is pro Pitt as anyone but it doesn't matter. Yes, his coaching was bad at times as well. Plus, we are never getting an elite coach because they know its impossible to recruit in this current setup and nobody plays or is building off campus facilities. Miami wants out of Dolphin Stadium while USF and Temple are VERY close to new stadiums (google and read the articles on pro stadiums). Change is critical in any business and we need Lyke to get this done. H2P!

GREAT POST!!!!!! 100% spot on
 
I just don't get the on campus stadium thing at all . If I'm a great high school player I'm going to be far more impressed by playing in the stadium where my idols play . You think 55,000 are showing up in Oakland to see this level of Fb ?
Pitt needs to figure out how to recruit better players and
win . Spend a small fraction of your stadium money on a coach ,staff and players ...way better investment than building and maintaining a Fb stadium .
Just to add, I never heard the cry for an on campus stadium during the 08-2010 seasons. Now it get blamed for recruiting and the losing.
 
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Sigh. We've been through this soooooo many times. Yes, Heinz is a disaster. The problems didn't start with the Heinz decision. It started in the 60's when Pitt allowed Pitt Stadium to fall into such bad shape. Its too late. We no longer have the alumni or fan base to build anything but a 30K stadium on a bare bones sub $100 million budget. Like everything else associated with Pitt football, that would be a joke. Who knows what the idiots in Oakland would give us? Their main goal is to make PSU football great.

I agree. It's too late. Deciding to move to Heinz was the final nail in the coffin.
 
Yellow seats don't miss tackles.
Here's the evidence!
In this picture they're doing alot of nothing.
yellow-empty-plastic-seats-at-stadium.jpg
 
Proven wrong every recruiting year.
Pitts recruiting sucks , I agree , but where they play has nothing to do with it . For Pitt to ever get back in the conversation with schools like PSU, OSU , ND etc for excellent recruits they need an inspirational hire or a booster organization .

If you where a 4 or 5 * recruit would you seriously choose to go to Pitt over any of those other schools ?

I guess Duke Bb suffers from playing in a shithole ?

Winning and tradition sells first , where you play is down the list .
 
Threads like this are great for me adding to my well-deserved ignore list. Now including PantherAl, Wildman4Pitt, pitt_fb_9x1, and cpc247. Thanks for outing yourselves.
 
Nobody blamed Heinz Field after yesterday's disappointing loss and now its all the coaches fault. Right? Before I argue my point, I want to be clear that yesterday was absolutely on Duzz and unacceptable however Heinz Field is still absolutely the biggest problem with Pitt football. Players play coaches coach. Coaching means more than everything in football vs any sport however do you really think the Steelers would be winning and competing for championships year after year without Ben, AB and Bell. No way and yes as much as I love Connor, to be fair he's not Bell.

As I've said countless times, Pitt will always be a 6-6/7-5/8-4 team with the current setup which is mediocre and gets you an annual useless toilet bowl & makes nobody happy. Pitt needs to take its $25M to $30M a year from ACC (will take a lot more $) and start investing this $ in a NEW stadium plan on campus either in the OC lot area or Panther hollow. Announce a stadium initiative and if you get $200 from a 1M alums that's a good start & not unreasonable at all. I'm sorry but we need to relocate the baseball or other Pitt buildings in that area because football is the reason you get $25M to $30M from the ACC and every other Pitt sport is funded by it outside of hoops. As I've also said multiple times, if you want to seriously compete for ACC championships you need 8 to 10 4/5 star recruits consistently a year and right now we don't have enough elite players to get us to that next level. We get 1 or 2 a year consistently. Perfect example yesterday was when 4 star Tyler Boyd was on the field. The other corners couldn't cover him. Our current guys are nice 3 star players but couldn't get open yesterday like him. We can argue about outperforming 3 stars like Donald, Revis, etc. along with 4/5 stars busts which I get but there is a reason why the recruiting rankings work MAJORITY of the time. There will always be a team or two who define the odds like Wisconsin but if you want a sure thing in recruiting we need to make the change. I'm tired of hearing about the high ceiling players who reminds us of this elite 4/5 player because that formula has proven it DOESN'T work. If the Pitt coaches were so smart and it did work, all of the other top school would be doing the same thing but instead they get 4/5 star players like Boyd or Shady. All you need to do is look at Penn State when they went on probation. Recruiting went way downhill & hurt the program. Look at their recruiting rankings the last 3 to 4 years and where they are at today. Many argue Franklin isn't great coach but is a great recruiter however you tie it with their on campus atmosphere & its a home run. Whether you like it or not, atmosphere means everything to elite 4/5 start players because we compete against PSU, UM, ND and OSU for many of the top players. 4/5 star recruits visit Heinz or watch the yellow empty atmosphere on TV. Then they go to those other schools mentioned and we lose almost every time. We need the right size stadium and am fine with 55,000 seats which would be the perfect for Pitt. We don't need 100K fans nor could we ever get them which is a 100% fine. Stop saying we can't do it as that's pure denial of the problem because if you accept the current setup we might as well be in the MAC conference. Heinz Morgue vs those neighboring top school atmospheres is losing situation for us and am not sure why many can't see this because we see the same results year after year regardless of the coach.

I know firing the coach will always make fans happy today however nothing is going to change unless we make the biggest change. I'd argue that we should have never fired Wanny who is pro Pitt as anyone but it doesn't matter. Yes, his coaching was bad at times as well. Plus, we are never getting an elite coach because they know its impossible to recruit in this current setup and nobody plays or is building off campus facilities. Miami wants out of Dolphin Stadium while USF and Temple are VERY close to new stadiums (google and read the articles on pro stadiums). Change is critical in any business and we need Lyke to get this done. H2P!

LOL! This is a very funny post! Thanks for giving me a laugh on a Sunday morning.

First, I don't know how anyone has the time to post all of what amounts to nonsense. I certainly don't. I didn't even have to read the whole post. I could tell it was funny and nonsensical from the first 200 words.

So you think $25MM to $30MM is a lot of money. I guess to you and me, it is. But to Pitt, it's pocket change. The endowments on the academic side make that number look very small by comparison. Pitt is not going to tear down any buildings, especially if they're part of their academic backbone, just to erect a silly football stadium. And assuming there is room in some remote part of Oakland to build a stadium, where is the parking and land for parking for the stadium and where are the highways that are needed to get in and get out of Oakland easily? LOL! None of that exists and it can't magically be created.

We're stuck with Heinz, a terrible college football venue, until our lease runs out there. After that, who knows what happens. But it won't be an on-campus stadium. There's a better chance of Pitt buying land in Butler County and building a stadium there than getting an on-campus stadium. And that isn't likely to happen either. Please let it go. It's a waste of time to discuss it.
 
If you want me to sit in traffic, pay crazy parking fees, pay inflated "supply and demand" season ticket prices for a smaller stadium with ass-killing bleachers to watch bad football, count me out. If I'm going to watch bad football at least give me room to stretch out like I have at Heinz.
 
Did you say 1M alums.
Hard to read among a 600 word paragraph

But 1M alums if that’s what you meant dude you are off by a factor of almost 4.

Second , Pitt does NOT HAVE A CAMPUS.
how is it going to have an on campus stadium ?

What do you mean they don’t have a campus? Have you been to Oakland? It’s all PITT with a bit of CMU sprinkled in.
 
The OP is essentially trying to argue that a root canal would suck a lot less if it was done in a park instead of a dentist’s office.

Everyone will enjoy the garbage product that is Pitt football currently so long as it’s in a pleasant atmosphere.
 
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What do you mean they don’t have a campus? Have you been to Oakland? It’s all PITT with a bit of CMU sprinkled in.
Hardly, it’s more hospitals, hotels , office building , emerging upstart space.....and houses that look pretty much like a slum.


CMU has a campus, PITT does not.
 
This is all so stupid. Pittsburgh is one of the most fair weather sports towns out there. Who remembers the Pens when they were at Mellon Arena and Rico Fata was their best player. Place was a ghost town. The Pirates are an ongoing example of this. A couple years ago, PNC park was packed every weekend. Look at now. Wait and see what happens if the Steelers have a couple losing seasons. If Pitt were a double digit win team playing for the CFP, Heinz would be packed every game. It wouldn't matter if their stadium was in steubenville, as long as they're winning.
 
This is all so stupid. Pittsburgh is one of the most fair weather sports towns out there. Who remembers the Pens when they were at Mellon Arena and Rico Fata was their best player. Place was a ghost town. The Pirates are an ongoing example of this. A couple years ago, PNC park was packed every weekend. Look at now. Wait and see what happens if the Steelers have a couple losing seasons. If Pitt were a double digit win team playing for the CFP, Heinz would be packed every game. It wouldn't matter if their stadium was in steubenville, as long as they're winning.
I agree that Pittsburgh fans are fickle, but Pitt doesn’t draw from as big of an area that the pro sports teams do. 68k seats will always be too many.
 
I agree for the current state of things, but if Pitt was Alabama, you'd be hard pressed to find a ticket. I know that's unrealistic, but that's what Pittsburgh fans are used to.
 
Case in point, I grew up going to Pitt games in the 80's at Pitt stadium. My got got as many free tickets as he wanted unless it was PSU week or ND week. I'm not sure if I ever got to go to one of those games. I guess my point is, the stadium is irrelevant. At least with Heinz they can make more money when a Marquee opponent is on the schedule.

Pitt needs to bring someone in that creates excitement and is a lights out recruiter. Those guys are out there. Instead, they bring in some washed up gym teacher with a shitty attitude.
 
Hardly, it’s more hospitals, hotels , office building , emerging upstart space.....and houses that look pretty much like a slum.


CMU has a campus, PITT does not.


Just curious as to your definition of a campus.... office buildings? You mean the ones that house PITT staff and related companies??? Housing? You mean the ones the students live in? Hospitals? Only other non PITT related hospital is the VA. I assume you mean a quad... but Pitt has that. Hmmm??? You must have went to a school in the middle of nowhere.
 
Hardly, it’s more hospitals, hotels , office building , emerging upstart space.....and houses that look pretty much like a slum.


CMU has a campus, PITT does not.

Well, my retort was deleted for mild profanity I suppose, but I can't let this go unanswered. So I'll tone it down.....

Stupid post, if you want bucolic college life, go root for Franklin and his pretty cow pasture campus.
 
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Well, my retort was deleted for mild profanity I suppose, but I can't let this go unanswered. So I'll tone it down.....

Stupid post, if you want bucolic college life, go root for Franklin and his pretty cow pasture campus.

He must define a campus as continuous green space. It's true, Pitt doesn't have much of that beyond the Cathedral lawn. We are also constantly reminded here by Paco that Pitt's campus is the smallest of the Power 5 schools.
 
He must define a campus as continuous green space. It's true, Pitt doesn't have much of that beyond the Cathedral lawn. We are also constantly reminded here by Paco that Pitt's campus is the smallest of the Power 5 schools.
He’s right to a certain extent......however , It’s not small it doesn’t exist.
CMU has a campus.....Pitt does not
 
Heinz Field is not the reason why we lost to North Carolina, it's not the reason why we're 2-2, and it's not the reason why our program is in the position that it is.

I used to be a big advocate about an on-campus stadium, but it just doesn't seem possible at this point, nor does it fix our situation. The problem isn't that the stadium is off-campus, it's that there's poor attendance and atmosphere. The two are exclusive; one does not necessarily equal the other. It's been shown that we can have a good atmosphere and gameday experience at Heinz Field. Whether it's winning or tarping, there's things we can do to correct it without shelling out hundreds of millions of dollars throwing a wrecking ball at Oakland.
 
Heinz Field is not the reason why we lost to North Carolina, it's not the reason why we're 2-2, and it's not the reason why our program is in the position that it is.

I used to be a big advocate about an on-campus stadium, but it just doesn't seem possible at this point, nor does it fix our situation. The problem isn't that the stadium is off-campus, it's that there's poor attendance and atmosphere. The two are exclusive; one does not necessarily equal the other. It's been shown that we can have a good atmosphere and gameday experience at Heinz Field. Whether it's winning or tarping, there's things we can do to correct it without shelling out hundreds of millions of dollars throwing a wrecking ball at Oakland.
Spot on.

Lyke, the boss , has taken a football field in Oakland off the table for 10 yrs....

Can you image Oakland in 10 yrs loaded with more and more non Pitt property.....more hospitals, more medical buildings , 4 or 5 more hotels...more businesses not to mention the increasing start up companies vying for every inch of space in crowded , congested Oakland....

Talk of a football field in Oakland is reserved for the sole purpose of entertaining the dream weaving of doohdooh heads.
 
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