Horton arrested

[levance2]

If you think for a second JC endorses this kind of behavior your delusional. Standing up against police misconduct towards young black men has nothing to do with this . An intoxicated young man compounded a mistake with several other mistakes from the sound of this . This doesn’t make JC in any responsible and this doesn’t make Horton an habitual criminal . He’s a kid who who made bad decisions while drunk , no one was hurt , let the legal process take it from here .

Now if this was JC then you might have a point , it isn’t !

Capel is the one out there talking about how he is shaping the lives of young men, not me. Pitt men. Brick by brick. A new slogan every year to give a PR whitewash to another losing season. I bought into it.

Horton and Capel have never had a conversation about what to do if he's in a situation with law enforcement?

Let's be honest here. Horton didn't initially do anything violent and must have been calm and sober *enough* for the cops to leave the scene. This COULD have been nothing and everyone walks away (except that girl, I guess). BUT, after a scuffle (to give Horton the benefit of the doubt) AND trying to flee, this could have certainly ended up much worse. How would Capel have felt about his own leadership if this incident had led to serious injury to Horton?

Capel is a black coach of primarily black players living in a city with an unusually low percentage of black residents. Everyone knows some of these kids come from dangerous upbringings, so that is even more reason that Capel acts as the quasi-guardian for the four years they are staying here.

If I were a coach, I would manually enter my phone number (or someone else in the program) in every kid's phone with the instructions that I be the only person they call the second they encounter a cop. It isn't just about what these kids do at Pitt, but the rest of their careers. Is Horton going to get a Euro contract if he's a convicted felon? There are huge implications for the kids, even if we ignore the effects on the coach. Capel would be both a terrible coach and terrible person if all he has to say is "not my fault."

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Capel is the one out there talking about how he is shaping the lives of young men, not me. Pitt men. Brick by brick. A new slogan every year to give a PR whitewash to another losing season. I bought into it.

Horton and Capel have never had a conversation about what to do if he's in a situation with law enforcement?

Let's be honest here. Horton didn't initially do anything violent and must have been calm and sober *enough* for the cops to leave the scene. This COULD have been nothing and everyone walks away (except that girl, I guess). BUT, after a scuffle (to give Horton the benefit of the doubt) AND trying to flee, this could have certainly ended up much worse.

Everyone ignores my point. This should have been nothing. Horton swears as cops were walking and police escalate the matter instead of laughing it off. That is over-policing a million times out of a million. You don't arrest a drunk guy for swearing at you.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

No surprise

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

No surprise

View embedded media

Charges reduced in March, back on the team for next season just like Hugley.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Charges reduced in March, back on the team for next season just like Hugley.

Hugley’s hearings were postponed. If Horton’s isn’t then the timeline would seem that it will be much shorter.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Hugley’s hearings were postponed. If Horton’s isn’t then the timeline would seem that it will be much shorter.

Hopefully. Everyone is saying he's done here. SMF will be right just as with Hugley.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Hopefully. Everyone is saying he's done here. SMF will be right just as with Hugley.

If he punched a cop I think he should be. I don’t necessarily I think he will be.

 

[PeetWeet1]

Right but the point is, if the cops were walking away and then arrested him because he swore at them, that wasn't cause for arrest and it would never have escalated. Everyone is missing the point.

In this hypothetical, he isn’t getting arrested for swearing. He is getting arrested for being drunk and disorderly. Running his mouth cost him a break. The speeding analogy is a good one. If I call a policeman a pig, I am probably getting the ticket for the speed at which I was traveling. If I am polite, there is a good chance I get a no points offense, or better yet - a warning.

 

[whirlybird optio]

I think its actually more likely than not Horton plays again, possibly this season, but the biggest issue will be timing. I fully expect these charges to be reduced, possibly disposed of altogether at the preliminary hearing, but with Covid and everything right now, that could delay things. If the charges are held over to Court from the prelim this is not going to be resolved anytime soon, at least a couple months.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If he punched a cop I think he should be. I don’t necessarily I think he will be.

If he walked up to a cop and punched him in the face for no reason, yes, done. If he was drunk and upset his car was being towed and the police officers said the tow truck driver has the right to tow the car and he becomes upset and swears at the cops as they are walking back to their vehicles and only strikes them during a scuffle because they arresting him for swearing, then he absolutely should not be kicked off the team.

I'm sick of you guys giving cops the benefit of the doubt here. In this day and age, they need to not be arresting drunk black men for swearing. So he was upset his car was towed and acting like a jerk, whatever. But if they were done and arrested him only after he swore, that is total BS.

 

[pittchagg]

I think its actually more likely than not Horton plays again, possibly this season, but the biggest issue will be timing. I fully expect these charges to be reduced, possibly disposed of altogether at the preliminary hearing, but with Covid and everything right now, that could delay things. If the charges are held over to Court from the prelim this is not going to be resolved anytime soon, at least a couple months.

Prelim is scheduled for November 18th. Just for reference, Hugley's first scheduled preliminary hearing date after his January 14th arrest wasn't until February 18th, then it eventually got continued twice until it happened on May 13th. So we're already moving quicker.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

If he walked up to a cop and punched him in the face for no reason, yes, done. If he was drunk and upset his car was being towed and the police officers said the tow truck driver has the right to tow the car and he becomes upset and swears at the cops as they are walking back to their vehicles and only strikes them during a scuffle because they arresting him for swearing, then he absolutely should not be kicked off the team.

I'm sick of you guys giving cops the benefit of the doubt here. In this day and age, they need to not be arresting drunk black men for swearing. So he was upset his car was towed and acting like a jerk, whatever. But if they were done and arrested him only after he swore, that is total BS.

You can be as sick as you want to be. I don’t give a bleep. If he punched a cop he should be gone. It’s pretty clear from my other comments I don’t blindly defend police so save it for someone else.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You can be as sick as you want to be. I don’t give a bleep. If he punched a cop he should be gone. It’s pretty clear from my other comments I don’t blindly defend police save it for someone else.

I don't condone punching a cop but if you are being arrested for something you should not have been arrested for (swearing), then throwing someone off the team because they responded irrationally to over-policing is too harsh a penalty. How bout we save his punishment for the actual legal system?

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I don't condone punching a cop but if you are being arrested for something you should not have been arrested for (swearing), then throwing someone off the team because they responded irrationally to over-policing is too harsh a penalty. How bout we save his punishment for the actual legal system?

He can’t be arrested for just swearing. That may have been the final straw. But that’s all part and parcel of the drunk and disorderly in this one I’m sure.

I think I recall a case years ago where someone swore at a cop and the cop arrested them. Can’t recall if it got thrown out or overturned. But in this case it’s only a part of the whole thing.

And what’s funny is the only reason you want him back is entertainment/wins. You’re trying to couch it but you aren't fooling anyone.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

As far as just swearing at an officer…

‘You’re Really Being an Asshole, Officer.’

The law on cursing at cops.

www.themarshallproject.org

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

He can’t be arrested for just swearing. That may have been the final straw. But that’s all part and parcel of the drunk and disorderly in this one I’m sure.

I think I recall a case years ago where someone swore at a cop and the cop arrested them. Can’t recall if it got thrown out or overturned. But in this case it’s only a part of the whole thing.

And what’s funny is the only reason you want him back is entertainment/wins. You’re trying to couch it but you aren't fooling anyone.

Swearing as they're leaving should never be the final straw. Just leave and go respond to a real crime.

 

[gary2]

I think its actually more likely than not Horton plays again, possibly this season, but the biggest issue will be timing. I fully expect these charges to be reduced, possibly disposed of altogether at the preliminary hearing, but with Covid and everything right now, that could delay things. If the charges are held over to Court from the prelim this is not going to be resolved anytime soon, at least a couple months.

Yeah, Covid could be a problem

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Swearing as they're leaving should never be the final straw. Just leave and go respond to a real crime.

A case can be made for that depending on all of what went on. But it still can’t excuse/justify punching a cop. If he did everything else but that we wouldn’t even be having much of a discussion. I think most people can look past a drunk kid acting stupid. Maybe he misses a game. But assault on a cop takes it to an entirely different level.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Everyone ignores my point. This should have been nothing. Horton swears as cops were walking and police escalate the matter instead of laughing it off. That is over-policing a million times out of a million. You don't arrest a drunk guy for swearing at you.

Bold part above is 100% correct. It should have been nothing.

However, Ithiel Horton decided to make it something. He had multiple opportunities to walk away. Once after they wouldn't remove his car from tow truck (which will never happen), and the second after the police let him leave.

So instead of eating the tow cost because he parked illegally, he's now dealing with a court case and at risk of never playing for Pitt again.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Capel is the one out there talking about how he is shaping the lives of young men, not me. Pitt men. Brick by brick. A new slogan every year to give a PR whitewash to another losing season. I bought into it.

Horton and Capel have never had a conversation about what to do if he's in a situation with law enforcement?

Let's be honest here. Horton didn't initially do anything violent and must have been calm and sober *enough* for the cops to leave the scene. This COULD have been nothing and everyone walks away (except that girl, I guess). BUT, after a scuffle (to give Horton the benefit of the doubt) AND trying to flee, this could have certainly ended up much worse. How would Capel have felt about his own leadership if this incident had led to serious injury to Horton?

Capel is a black coach of primarily black players living in a city with an unusually low percentage of black residents. Everyone knows some of these kids come from dangerous upbringings, so that is even more reason that Capel acts as the quasi-guardian for the four years they are staying here.

If I were a coach, I would manually enter my phone number (or someone else in the program) in every kid's phone with the instructions that I be the only person they call the second they encounter a cop. It isn't just about what these kids do at Pitt, but the rest of their careers. Is Horton going to get a Euro contract if he's a convicted felon? There are huge implications for the kids, even if we ignore the effects on the coach. Capel would be both a terrible coach and terrible person if all he has to say is "not my fault."

So let me get this right Capel needs to babysit 13 (+ walk ons ) young adult males 24/7 . You think these guys haven’t been advised how they represent the university and that any misstep makes the news by JC , staff and god knows who else .

You want to put the blame at JC feet your off base , is he recruiting known felons who are bound to act out just to win games ?

This was a kid out drinking who made a lot of bad decisions while intoxicated, this wasn’t JC doing this !

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I get that, but how it translates is a problem when you add age/alcohol into the mix, plus the constant backdrop of the "victim", "not my fault" mentality so prevalent in our society, but if you believe its the best way to lead young men so be it.

You have no idea how he’s addressed his team and my bet is that he’s a solid law abiding man and expects his players to be also . His failures on the court have nothing to do with how he expects his players to behave .

 

[levance2]

You want to put the blame at JC feet your off base , is he recruiting known felons who are bound to act out just to win games ?

No, he didn't recruit felons. He recruited a bunch of dumb kids who did dumb things. The issue is that he boasts himself about building and enriching their lives. He is not doing that by allowing these guys to get into trouble and commit felonies.

As I said, a coach needs to convey to these players that everything they do is under a spotlight and they are, in some ways, being held to a higher standard than other students. Even if everything is ultimately dropped, this event is going to stick to him and his search results for the rest of his life. It is bad press for Pitt and it is bad press for Capel.

All kids are capable of doing dumb things, especially when drunk. The coach knows that, and it is his responsibility to minimize that possibility. Interestingly, the VB coach was just saying the other day that it can be really frustrating when the coach cares more about the team's success than the players do. That seems to be the case just about every season Capel has been here. That is concerning.

 

[levance2]

Capel is the one out there talking about how he is shaping the lives of young men, not me. Pitt men. Brick by brick. A new slogan every year to give a PR whitewash to another losing season. I bought into it.

Maybe Jason was reading the board today...

 

[gary2]

Which other Pitt athletic teams are experiencing the same sort of difficulties as the basketball team when numbers are taken into consideration?

 

[Parkview57]

You have no idea how he’s addressed his team

Yes we do. Unless he is wildly inconsistent with his tweets and public words.

 

[4upmc]

Bold part above is 100% correct. It should have been nothing.

However, Ithiel Horton decided to make it something. He had multiple opportunities to walk away. Once after they wouldn't remove his car from tow truck (which will never happen), and the second after the police let him leave.

So instead of eating the tow cost because he parked illegally, he's now dealing with a court case and at risk of never playing for Pitt again.

As you stated once the car was on the tow truck it can’t be given back until he picks it up at the pound. We don’t know the whole story yet but we do know his car was towed…it could have ended there if he cut his losses and called it a night.

Maybe Ithiel and John can get NIL deals promoting a criminal defense Law firm JK

 

[Drew1208]

As you stated once the car was on the tow truck it can’t be given back until he picks it up at the pound. We don’t know the whole story yet but we do know his car was towed…it could have ended there if he cut his losses and called it a night.

Maybe Ithiel and John can get NIL deals promoting a criminal defense Law firm JK

Ok thats funny

 

[Vader_Storm]

As you stated once the car was on the tow truck it can’t be given back until he picks it up at the pound. We don’t know the whole story yet but we do know his car was towed…it could have ended there if he cut his losses and called it a night.

Maybe Ithiel and John can get NIL deals promoting a criminal defense Law firm JK

In regard to a nil deal as a joke,

Chico's bail bonds... I wonder how many people remember where that came from without a google search and what team they were associated with, ha.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...32b93f578d88635ae0_1200x1200.jpg?v=1532966762

 

[Fsgolfdr]

No, he didn't recruit felons. He recruited a bunch of dumb kids who did dumb things. The issue is that he boasts himself about building and enriching their lives. He is not doing that by allowing these guys to get into trouble and commit felonies.

As I said, a coach needs to convey to these players that everything they do is under a spotlight and they are, in some ways, being held to a higher standard than other students. Even if everything is ultimately dropped, this event is going to stick to him and his search results for the rest of his life. It is bad press for Pitt and it is bad press for Capel.

All kids are capable of doing dumb things, especially when drunk. The coach knows that, and it is his responsibility to minimize that possibility. Interestingly, the VB coach was just saying the other day that it can be really frustrating when the coach cares more about the team's success than the players do. That seems to be the case just about every season Capel has been here. That is concerning.

So now all of Pitts players are dumb kids and not providing 24 hr oversight JC is delinquent in his responsibilities to his players . You really need to get a grasp on just what is possible in overseeing a team .

Bill Belichick had a murderer on his team , how many players both college and pro have committed abuse against woman , or how about the Ga player just recently accused of rape . Deshaun Watson’s coach mustn’t have told him not to sexually assault female masseuses . Maybe they should just lock them in their dorm rooms after practice !

How does JC care about team success over proper behavior , they suspended Hugley for the season , Did he give into X and his father last season .

Want to bitch about JC , do it with what’s happening on the court , that’s something you can evaluate, you have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Yes we do. Unless he is wildly inconsistent with his tweets and public words.

If you want to believe that anyone who spoke out about BLM issues is calling for the total disregard of the law and police officers I truly feel for you . The instances that caused these issues were totally unacceptable. You don’t have to be black to feel that way .

 

[Parkview57]

If you want to believe that anyone who spoke out about BLM issues is calling for the total disregard of the law and police officers I truly feel for you

If you say so, i am sure all student athletes of differing creeds and beliefs are welcomed on the Pitt basketball team, a very diverse think tank