How to increase ACC participation in NCAAT

[Sean Miller Fan]

Couple ideas I have because although I think the league stinks, its not 2 or 3 out of 15 bad. Its better than the Mountain West, which will get 5 out of 11 in.

There's 20 conference games. Spread them out. Play 2 games to start the season or maybe after that first cupcake game. Try to make it a basketball/football weekend for visiting fans. The football team hosts Virginia on Nov 9 and Clemson on Nov 16. Schedule one of those teams to visit the Pete on Friday night. Playing 2 conference games early will prepare the teams better for the Thanksgiving tournaments.

- Start an ACC/Big 12 Challenge with games being played in February like the old Big 12/SEC Challenge. To take a page out of the old Bracket Busters, make the matchups about 2 weeks before the games. ESPN has half the Big 12 contract. So you figure with 7 or 8 Big 12 home games, all but 3 or 4 games in this challenge will be on ESPN. If they dont want to draw the matchups 2 weeks out, you can make regional matchups before the season if you need to as many markets overlap:

Pitt vs Cincy
WVU vs VT
FSU vs UCF
ND vs Iowa State
SMU vs Houston
Arizona State vs Stanford
Cal vs Utah

Then you can do Duke vs Kansas, UNC vs Arizona, Virginia vs Baylor, etc.

This will give a team like Wake the chance to beat like a TCU in Winston-Salem which could make all the difference in their NCAAT quest.

 

[JD1976]

I’m wondering if part of the reason the Mountain West metrics look better is there aren’t as many cupcake/buy-game schools in their region to play non-conference so they don’t get dinged as bad in Nov and Dec. I have also noticed that schools like Wyoming, Colorado State, Boise will play D2 teams for a cupcake game. Those games don’t help or hurt you.

But above all at the moment, I’d put the top coaches in the MWC against the guys in the ACC. Dutcher, Medved, Rice, etc are all big time recruiters. Hell even Richie Pitino knows how to slime it up. We need more personality and cutthroat coaches in this league to get it back to the heyday.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I’m wondering if part of the reason the Mountain West metrics look better is there aren’t as many cupcake/buy-game schools in their region to play non-conference so they don’t get dinged as bad in Nov and Dec. I have also noticed that schools like Wyoming, Colorado State, Boise will play D2 teams for a cupcake game. Those games don’t help or hurt you.

But above all at the moment, I’d put the top coaches in the MWC against the guys in the ACC. Dutcher, Medved, Rice, etc are all big time recruiters. Hell even Richie Pitino knows how to slime it up. We need more personality and cutthroat coaches in this league to get it back to the heyday.

But playing Q4s can help you if you beat the spread. The Q4s helped us this year. I'm surprised you dont hear of any math geeks studying these things. The MWC is going to lose 4 1st Round games and 1 2nd round game and then be back in 2025 with another 5 spot. Rinse, repeat. Someone needs to study how they are doing it.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

The ACC has been really good in March and a decent record this regular season overall. I wish that'd buy us more than it apparently has.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The ACC has been really good in March and a decent record this regular season overall. I wish that'd buy us more than it apparently has.

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The ACC has been good in March but it needs to be better in November and December. Something needs to be done which is why I think my idea of playing more conference games early to prepare for the Thanksgiving tournaments could help.

 

[pittchagg]

The ACC has been good in March but it needs to be better in November and December. Something needs to be done which is why I think my idea of playing more conference games early to prepare for the Thanksgiving tournaments could help.

The issue is that the ACC was pretty good in November and December this year. It hasn’t mattered.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The issue is that the ACC was pretty good in November and December this year. It hasn’t mattered.

What's the disconnect then? And was it really good enough? What's the data?

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

What's the disconnect then? And was it really good enough? What's the data?

The data is the ACC is 118-46 overall, third best after the Big 12 and SEC. And we are actually 9-3 against the vaunted Big 12 head to head.

That makes us 3rd in the Colley Rankings, 5th in RPI and 6th in Sagarin. Not remarkable but you'd expect more than three bids especially considering how big the conference is!

Part of the problem is perception (CBS is pumping up the Mountain West and ESPN seems to like the SEC more than the ACC despite having both TV deals) but I think we probably do have too many teams just slightly on the wrong side of the bubble while maintaining a strong base at the median. Our bottom two teams really are bad but I'm talking median.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The data is the ACC is 118-46 overall, third best after the Big 12 and SEC. And we are actually 9-3 against the vaunted Big 12 head to head.

What's the P6's record vs each other though?

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

What's the P6's record vs each other though?

I don't believe in a "P6" concept. The Mountain West has a better record than the PAC12 both head to head (6-1) and against the field. And there are years the AAC have been in the top five in computer rankings.

That said, here is the ACC's record against other conferences this year:
9-3 vs Big 12
12-18 vs SEC
3-2 vs Big 10
2-5 vs Big East
3-2 vs Mountain West
3-3 vs PAC 12
6-1 vs Atlantic 10
2-5 vs the AAC
3-3 vs the Southern (whoops!)
Then a lot of undefeated sort of records against some weak conferences (8-0 vs Big South, etc)

It's by no means one of our best years but it really doesn't follow that we might only get 3 bids considering.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I don't believe in a "P6" concept. The Mountain West has a better record than the PAC12 both head to head (6-1) and against the field. And there are years the AAC have been in the top five in computer rankings.

That said, here is the ACC's record against other conferences this year:
9-3 vs Big 12
12-18 vs SEC
3-2 vs Big 10
2-5 vs Big East
3-2 vs Mountain West
3-3 vs PAC 12
6-1 vs Atlantic 10
2-5 vs the AAC
3-3 vs the Southern (whoops!)
Then a lot of undefeated sort of records against some weak conferences (8-0 vs Big South, etc)

It's by no means one of our best years but it really doesn't follow that we might only get 3 bids considering.

So 32-33 vs the "P7." What are the other conferences? That's not great but also not terrible. I would agree that that doesn't equal 3 bids and if Clemson falls apart, only 2? I would like to see some math geek explain it. There aren't even ACC teams all that close to the Field right now. A few more can still get in but at this point, they have a lot of work to do. Perhaps its as simple as that most of the ACC's 32 P7 wins were against the worst teams making it a misleading number? I really dont know. But, the ACC needs to do something different next year. This is freaking embarrassing.

 

[Pittnerski]

The problem is Louisville is a Q4 loss if you lose to them. ND is Q3/4 loss. FSU refuses to show up in OOC

These are still P5 teams with talented players. Not all quadrants are equal.

Did anyone really believe FSU at home was a Q4 loss for us? That’d be like losing to Umass-Lowell for comparison

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The problem is Louisville is a Q4 loss if you lose to them. ND is Q3/4 loss. FSU refuses to show up in OOC

These are still P5 teams with talented players. Not all quadrants are equal.

Did anyone really believe FSU at home was a Q4 loss for us? That’d be like losing to Umass-Lowell for comparison

Leonard Hamilton being one of the all-time worst coaches pound for pound is a problem. His refusal to get his team to show up until January is a problem. But that isnt keeping ACC teams out of the tournament. And no one is losing to Louisville. Well, Clemson's loss at Lou last year did keep them out. Louisville will fix itself next year and likely be back in the NCAAT with Wade, Oats, or Cronin but what about the rest? There's more to it than bad coaching at Lou and FSU

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Bumping this because I am interested in other suggestions. The ACC is looking like a 4 bid league with an outside shot at 5 and by percentage, its been among the worst P6 leagues in getting teams in. If the ACC called you and said they would use any suggestion within reason, what would you advise they do?

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

Use that Florida State settlement or exit fee money to hire better basketball coaches. There is no "PR" solution really as long as ESPN controls most of the league's relevant broadcast rights.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Use that Florida State settlement or exit fee money to hire better basketball coaches. There is no "PR" solution really as long as ESPN controls most of the league's relevant broadcast rights.

Interesting idea but lets say the ACC gives every school $5 million or so to hire better basketball coaches, is that going to be enough for a Wake or VT or BC or GT or FSU when Hamilton retires to pull a "guatantee" from the SEC?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Play better.

 

[Pitt79]

The data is the ACC is 118-46 overall, third best after the Big 12 and SEC. And we are actually 9-3 against the vaunted Big 12 head to head.

We all know that in modern college sports nothing matters less than actual games

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

To clarify, I dont think there should be an "ACC season" where ACC only games are played between Jan-March. The non-conference schedule is far more important and it determines the NET rank of your league. I would schedule more like football where you may have some early September ACC games but also an October or November OOC game.

The ACC needs to play several very early conference games since the results are a "net 0" for NET, no pun intended. These games also serve as a warm-up for the crucially important OOC games.

Above, I said that they should add an ACC/B12 challenge in February. I also think they should arrange with some of the decent mid-major leagues to host those teams in Jan/Feb but arrange the games as best you can for NET. Using the CAA, lets say #82 Hofstra plays one of your bubble teams because that's a good NET game. But 335 NC A&T goes and plays your worst team since they arent making it anyway.