I often lament and outright confusion on the lack of local basketball talent here

[OhioPittFan]

Being someone who follows both NE Ohio and Western PA basketball it surprises me how much better the quality of teams and talent is in the Canton/Akron/Cleveland area vs Western PA. It also shocks me some of the western Pa teams that have made runs to state. Hickory for instance. They would’ve probably been the 2-3rd best team in Youngstown area which is a very average area for hoops and no way they even sniff a state title game in Ohio. Probably lucky to win any district.

The 6a schools aren’t close to the top NE Ohio big schools like Canton McKinley, SVSM, St Ed’s, Ignatius, Mentor. Brush, where Hugley was at, would definitely have won the WPIAL the last 2-3 years and was about the 8-9th best NE Ohio team.

I couldn’t tell you why the difference though. It’s not like that area isn’t football-focused as well (and also is churning out more D1 FB talent too).

 

[meadvillecoach]

Just to let some fans in on a interesting story. I was at a game when Pryor,Baldwin, and Blair were sophs and being recruited. After the game went down to locker room to say thank you for tickets and the three where standing around talking to a coach. The size of Pryor was surprising and as I was leaving one of the assistants whispered to me he will be in the league some day he is that good.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Being someone who follows both NE Ohio and Western PA basketball it surprises me how much better the quality of teams and talent is in the Canton/Akron/Cleveland area vs Western PA. It also shocks me some of the western Pa teams that have made runs to state. Hickory for instance. They would’ve probably been the 2-3rd best team in Youngstown area which is a very average area for hoops and no way they even sniff a state title game in Ohio. Probably lucky to win any district.

The 6a schools aren’t close to the top NE Ohio big schools like Canton McKinley, SVSM, St Ed’s, Ignatius, Mentor. Brush, where Hugley was at, would definitely have won the WPIAL the last 2-3 years and was about the 8-9th best NE Ohio team.

I couldn’t tell you why the difference though. It’s not like that area isn’t football-focused as well (and also is churning out more D1 FB talent too).

I think the Schenley team that had Blair, DJ Kennedy, Deandre Kane (that is 3 high level D1 players) and Onion Bryant (lower level D1) was probably the best HS team from Western PA in the last 50 years. But you see teams like that (non private) in Cleveland or Philly or Cincy or Indianapolis all the time.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Just to let some fans in on a interesting story. I was at a game when Pryor,Baldwin, and Blair were sophs and being recruited. After the game went down to locker room to say thank you for tickets and the three where standing around talking to a coach. The size of Pryor was surprising and as I was leaving one of the assistants whispered to me he will be in the league some day he is that good

A 6'6 world-class athlete with the handle, he had....yea NBA wasnt a question. The question was how good would he have been? My guess would be high level NBA starter, possibly making a few all-star games. The kid had superhuman athleticism. Ashame he was pushed towards football. He'd probably still be in the NBA right now.

 

[Drew1208]

I coached at Sacred Heart. We had a really good team but couldn’t beat St. Al’s. Matt was the best player in grade school that I had ever seen.

Yeah he was so above everyone it was ridiculous

 

[PA_Panther]

I think in the next ten years the WPIAL will see a massive shift towards the high end athletes end up playing basketball long term. There is just so much money to be played whether it is the NBA, overseas or heck even the G-League. The wear and tear on the body is much easier and basketball is just becoming so much more popular around the globe and continues to grow.

 

[meadvillecoach]

If you count Altoona they had west, izzulino both nba players and Craig curry at 6’9” who had academic issues along with bob bradfield who started at shippensburg. They got beat by brashear at the Johnstown war memorial saw the game major harris had a great game and upset them

 

[joeydavid]

I think in the next ten years the WPIAL will see a massive shift towards the high end athletes end up playing basketball long term. There is just so much money to be played whether it is the NBA, overseas or heck even the G-League. The wear and tear on the body is much easier and basketball is just becoming so much more popular around the globe and continues to grow.

You also need the coaches who know how to train basketball players appropriately. You still have high school coaches here that "don't believe" in 3 point shooting 🙄.

 

[WannyandWalt]

And as a reminder of this, the Suns are two wins away from the NBA finals. If they make it, Cam Johnson will be the first WPIAL player in 50 years, FIFTY, to play in an NBA final!!!

Again, this has always blew my mind, not that no WPIAL player has played in an NBA final for that long, because I didn't realize it until the article below. Just how? How is that possible. For the past 50 years, Pittsburgh has ranged from the 20th to 30th largest metro area in the US. Granted, it is probably one of the whitest. But we do produce many black football players. (I am just using this because it is an unavoidable demographic in trying to figure out why this would occur, so let's not turn it into anything but that..) But why? Again, we have had some players come through, and you would think by luck of the draw. I guess Maurice Lucas being a Schenley grad wouldn't count. But still that was like 1977. So still 40 years!!

Why? I just don't understand. Lack of grassroots and AAU programs are oft cited, but that doesn't account for the dearth of athletic, 6'8" or taller kids that this region has not produced with any regularity whatsoever.

How Cam Johnson, two wins away from NBA Finals, is living his basketball dreams

Barely three weeks into his first NBA season, Cam Johnson experienced the moment so many young professional players do, the instant when their place at...

www.post-gazette.com

WVU manages with maybe 1 D1 player worth a damn each year in their home state , so.....

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I will say that I have found it odd that Western PA seems to have the shortest population. Every year, there are close to 0 HS kids 6'8 or taller out of a population of over 2 million. I mean forget about 6'10, 6'11, 7'0, there's just no tall kids around here and never has been really. I mean you dont even see 6'8 or 6'9 stiffs in the WPIAL who are like D2/3 players. Just odd.

 

[OhioPittFan]

I think the Schenley team that had Blair, DJ Kennedy, Deandre Kane (that is 3 high level D1 players) and Onion Bryant (lower level D1) was probably the best HS team from Western PA in the last 50 years. But you see teams like that (non private) in Cleveland or Philly or Cincy or Indianapolis all the time.

The New Castle team from late 90’s w/ David Young was very good too, despite not winning a state title. Defeated a few top NYC parochial league schools and took #1 Rice down to the wire. Young went to Xavier and Desmond Whetzel could’ve been headed to Clemson if not for grades and off-court issues.

 

[OhioPittFan]

I will say that I have found it odd that Western PA seems to have the shortest population. Every year, there are close to 0 HS kids 6'8 or taller out of a population of over 2 million. I mean forget about 6'10, 6'11, 7'0, there's just no tall kids around here and never has been really. I mean you dont even see 6'8 or 6'9 stiffs in the WPIAL who are like D2/3 players. Just odd.

Youngstown area is that way too. Issue here on height is a lot of Italians who tend to not be as tall. You go to Columbus and every team has multiple 6’7”+ guys it seems. Even the Canton/Akron area your front lines are usually multiple 6’5-6’8 kids vs a few 6’3-6’5’ in Youngstown area teams.

 

[Upg bobcat]

It’s probably the apocalypse that you, SMF, and I all agree on a point. I think TP is a special basketball player if he dedicated his life to it

He also "dedicated" himself to QB and his professional career at that position was underwhelming IMO. Physical tools only get you so far. There is more to it, including luck. Yes, he probably had a real shot at the NBA if he played basketball. Of course, how would Dixon have used him (assuming he would have honored that Pitt commitment if he chose basketball)? My guess is he would have been playing the 4, probably not the best position to set him up for the NBA.

 

[USN_Panther]

Pryor was the highest rated WPIAL basketball recruit ever (well partly because rankings have only been around a few decades). Big difference from dime a dozen 4-star WPIAL football recruits.

I mean I know some players dont pan out and some guys improve like Cam but we're talking about a world-class athlete (yea, having a 1000 yard season as a WR in the NFL despite NEVER playing the position surely qualifies one as world-class. There literally arent more than 100 so Earthlings who could have done that) who was highly skilled and had unbelievable size as a 6'6 PG. And yea, maybe he doesn't play PG in college or the NBA but the guy was superhuman. Honestly one of the top American athletes of the decade. Unfortunately for him, he chose the wrong sport AND the wrong position in that sport.

And he chose the wrong school. O$U wasn't the place for QB development. To be fair, Pitt under Wannestedt wouldn't have been the place either. Now imagine what Walt would have done for him?

 

[joeydavid]

And he chose the wrong school. O$U wasn't the place for QB development. To be fair, Pitt under Wannestedt wouldn't have been the place either. Now imagine what Walt would have done for him?

but he got to drive a corvette in high school...

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I will say that I have found it odd that Western PA seems to have the shortest population. Every year, there are close to 0 HS kids 6'8 or taller out of a population of over 2 million. I mean forget about 6'10, 6'11, 7'0, there's just no tall kids around here and never has been really. I mean you dont even see 6'8 or 6'9 stiffs in the WPIAL who are like D2/3 players. Just odd.

THAT'S BEEN ONE OF MY MAIN POINT SHERLOCK!! THANKS FOR PLAYING.

 

[joeydavid]

I will say that I have found it odd that Western PA seems to have the shortest population. Every year, there are close to 0 HS kids 6'8 or taller out of a population of over 2 million. I mean forget about 6'10, 6'11, 7'0, there's just no tall kids around here and never has been really. I mean you dont even see 6'8 or 6'9 stiffs in the WPIAL who are like D2/3 players. Just odd.

How many tall coalminers do you think were hired in Western PA 100 years ago?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

How many tall coalminers do you think were hired in Western PA 100 years ago?

Maybe its just our imagination. But heck, you'd think one time there'd be this crazy good football player who got to be 6'9 or 6'10 and had to switch to basketball. There are stories like that everywhere but in Pittsburgh.

 

[Saboteur II]

Being someone who follows both NE Ohio and Western PA basketball it surprises me how much better the quality of teams and talent is in the Canton/Akron/Cleveland area vs Western PA. It also shocks me some of the western Pa teams that have made runs to state. Hickory for instance. They would’ve probably been the 2-3rd best team in Youngstown area which is a very average area for hoops and no way they even sniff a state title game in Ohio. Probably lucky to win any district.

The 6a schools aren’t close to the top NE Ohio big schools like Canton McKinley, SVSM, St Ed’s, Ignatius, Mentor. Brush, where Hugley was at, would definitely have won the WPIAL the last 2-3 years and was about the 8-9th best NE Ohio team.

I couldn’t tell you why the difference though. It’s not like that area isn’t football-focused as well (and also is churning out more D1 FB talent too).

I spent much time in NE and Central Ohio. Both areas have a longer history of prep success which I have attributed to schools from Akron/Canton playing against schools from Cleveland and Columbus. Having grown up in Ohio it was common for us to travel far away for games and to consider every team in the state. PA is really 2.5 or 3 separate states. SEPA does not know or care about SWPA and teams from across the state never play each other.
Pittsburgh/SWPA is quite provincial IMO.

 

[mo cheeks]

I think the Schenley team that had Blair, DJ Kennedy, Deandre Kane (that is 3 high level D1 players) and Onion Bryant (lower level D1) was probably the best HS team from Western PA in the last 50 years. But you see teams like that (non private) in Cleveland or Philly or Cincy or Indianapolis all the time.

You guys are too young ! the Sam Clancy Brashesr (fifth Avenue) team that won state in 1976 was incredible. Clancy , Warner Mack Lin, puffy Kennedy., another big that starred for Duquesne. clancy was only a junior that year. further back midland was phenomenal with norm van lier and crew. I think it was the brash ear team in the mt Washington picture.

 

[joeydavid]

Maybe its just our imagination. But heck, you'd think one time there'd be this crazy good football player who got to be 6'9 or 6'10 and had to switch to basketball. There are stories like that everywhere but in Pittsburgh.

Kevin Salvadori played in the NBA.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You guys are too young ! the Sam Clancy Brashesr (fifth Avenue) team that won state in 1976 was incredible. Clancy , Warner Mack Lin, puffy Kennedy., another big that starred for Duquesne. clancy was only a junior that year. further back midland was phenomenal with norm van lier and crew. I think it was the brash ear team in the mt Washington picture.

Yeah? How were their NBA careers let alone college. They were just a product of the environment. At least the Schenley team of like circa 2007 had legit top college talent on there not some propped up memories.

 

[mo cheeks]

You guys are too young ! the Sam Clancy Brashesr (fifth Avenue) team that won state in 1976 was incredible. Clancy , Warner Mack Lin, puffy Kennedy., another big that starred for Duquesne. clancy was only a junior that year. further back midland was phenomenal with norm van lier and crew. I think it was the brash ear team in the mt Washington picture.

Bill Clarke was the other brasher player that starred for the dukes

 

[mo cheeks]

Yeah? How were their NBA careers let alone college. They were just a product of the environment. At least the Schenley team of like circa 2007 had legit top college talent on there not some propped up memories.

Well Clancy had a really good nfl career. Clancy was pretty legit d1 Hoops. One of best ever at Pitt. So was Clarke ( solid d1). Kennedy started at Cincinnati for several years. Warner Macklin had some challenges With grades, but was the quickest player I ever saw in high school. Solid d1 talent. Good enough ?

 

[mo cheeks]

Yeah? How were their NBA careers let alone college. They were just a product of the environment. At least the Schenley team of like circa 2007 had legit top college talent on there not some propped up memories.

Ps. Recruits. This is just a discussion board. it is interesting to debate. Curious. Did the Blair team win the state championship? i don’t know. If not, would love to know who beat them. The Clancy team won it it 76 but lost in the quarter finals in 77.

 

[NCPitt]

Ps. Recruits. This is just a discussion board. it is interesting to debate. Curious. Did the Blair team win the state championship? i don’t know. If not, would love to know who beat them. The Clancy team won it it 76 but lost in the quarter finals in 77.

Recruits abides aby his unwritten rule that his posts cannot be challenged or he will rain crap down on the challenger.

 

[DT_PITT]

Ps. Recruits. This is just a discussion board. it is interesting to debate. Curious. Did the Blair team win the state championship? i don’t know. If not, would love to know who beat them. The Clancy team won it it 76 but lost in the quarter finals in 77.

Yes, Blair’s team won the 2007 PIAA 4A State Championship.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Recruits abides aby his unwritten rule that his posts cannot be challenged or he will rain crap down on the challenger.

Schenley did in fact win the State Title in Quad A in 2007. So...yeah if you want to challenge my point, go for it.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Brush High in Cleveland, and maybe this is like the Schenley of Blair era, but they are a public HS, and my god, they have all these 6'6-6'8" guys who are high D1 kids, plus they had 6'9" John Hugely now of this parish. Maybe the pierogi fillings in Cleveland are better than Pittsburgh.

Last true, athletic and top rated big man from 'round here (not including Dejuan who was really 6'6") was Herb Pope. And he was an absolute trainwreck.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Hell how about Matt Clement?

Was a joke but if I remember correctly he was a possible D1 talent as well.

My best friend was his catcher in the PA American Legion All-Star Game. Clement was an infielder for Butler, but a scout saw how fast he threw across the diamond and requested that he pitch. The rest is history.

He was a pretty good basketball player and that was his first love. He was probably good enough to play low D1 basketball or D2 starter, but clearly made the right choice.

 

[NCPitt]

Schenley did in fact win the State Title in Quad A in 2007. So...yeah if you want to challenge my point, go for it.

Nah, I'm not in the mood for your crap storm.

 

[vikings1980]

Schenley did in fact win the State Title in Quad A in 2007. So...yeah if you want to challenge my point, go for it.

Pretty sure that you’re missing or choosing to ignore the poster’s entirely accurate point.

 

[DT_PITT]

And as a reminder of this, the Suns are two wins away from the NBA finals. If they make it, Cam Johnson will be the first WPIAL player in 50 years, FIFTY, to play in an NBA final!!!

Again, this has always blew my mind, not that no WPIAL player has played in an NBA final for that long, because I didn't realize it until the article below. Just how? How is that possible. For the past 50 years, Pittsburgh has ranged from the 20th to 30th largest metro area in the US. Granted, it is probably one of the whitest. But we do produce many black football players. (I am just using this because it is an unavoidable demographic in trying to figure out why this would occur, so let's not turn it into anything but that..) But why? Again, we have had some players come through, and you would think by luck of the draw. I guess Maurice Lucas being a Schenley grad wouldn't count. But still that was like 1977. So still 40 years!!

Why? I just don't understand. Lack of grassroots and AAU programs are oft cited, but that doesn't account for the dearth of athletic, 6'8" or taller kids that this region has not produced with any regularity whatsoever.

How Cam Johnson, two wins away from NBA Finals, is living his basketball dreams

Barely three weeks into his first NBA season, Cam Johnson experienced the moment so many young professional players do, the instant when their place at...

www.post-gazette.com

We have joined in this discussion before and I also find it to be curious to why this area simply produces a statistically significant lower number of quality basketball recruits per the size of our metropolitan area population.

First, I will offer a story directly from the guy who runs the Pittsburgh Basketball Club (I'll get the story a little bit wrong, but it will be enough in the right direction to make the point).

About 6-7 years or so ago, he called me grumbling a little because he had cancel a local all-star basketball game that had been planned and in the works for several months. What happened was a 7 on 7 football event was scheduled for the same time (a weekend I think) only about a week or so before the planned date of the event. When the football event was announced, about 2/3 of the players committed to the All-Star game backed out to do the football event instead.

Is football this reason for the issue you describe? Well, in my opinion, it's certainly part of it. Maybe even the biggest part of it. What I don't know is whether or not there are fewer "tall" people in this area. My guess is that there are more or less the same number. But if you are tall in other areas, you are playing basketball against other good players from an early age. The same culture just doesn't exist here.

In the words of @Mike83, it's just not a hoops town.

 

[meadvillecoach]

It seems to me that lately there are more d-1 scholarships in baseball than the other 2 so called major sports. Looking at the list of baseball players playing or committing to big schools seems to grow each year. Travel baseball has had to have an effect on this area.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

We have joined in this discussion before and I also find it to be curious to why this area simply produces a statistically significant lower number of quality basketball recruits per the size of our metropolitan area population.

First, I will offer a story directly from the guy who runs the Pittsburgh Basketball Club (I'll get the story a little bit wrong, but it will be enough in the right direction to make the point).

About 6-7 years or so ago, he called me grumbling a little because he had cancel a local all-star basketball game that had been planned and in the works for several months. What happened was a 7 on 7 football event was scheduled for the same time (a weekend I think) only about a week or so before the planned date of the event. When the football event was announced, about 2/3 of the players committed to the All-Star game backed out to do the football event instead.

Is football this reason for the issue you describe? Well, in my opinion, it's certainly part of it. Maybe even the biggest part of it. What I don't know is whether or not there are fewer "tall" people in this area. My guess is that there are more or less the same number. But if you are tall in other areas, you are playing basketball against other good players from an early age. The same culture just doesn't exist here.

In the words of @Mike83, it's just not a hoops town.

90% of it is cultural.

Its a football culture. That's just about all of it.

The part about why there are never any tall kids who literally grow out of football, I dont know.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

We have joined in this discussion before and I also find it to be curious to why this area simply produces a statistically significant lower number of quality basketball recruits per the size of our metropolitan area population.

First, I will offer a story directly from the guy who runs the Pittsburgh Basketball Club (I'll get the story a little bit wrong, but it will be enough in the right direction to make the point).

About 6-7 years or so ago, he called me grumbling a little because he had cancel a local all-star basketball game that had been planned and in the works for several months. What happened was a 7 on 7 football event was scheduled for the same time (a weekend I think) only about a week or so before the planned date of the event. When the football event was announced, about 2/3 of the players committed to the All-Star game backed out to do the football event instead.

Is football this reason for the issue you describe? Well, in my opinion, it's certainly part of it. Maybe even the biggest part of it. What I don't know is whether or not there are fewer "tall" people in this area. My guess is that there are more or less the same number. But if you are tall in other areas, you are playing basketball against other good players from an early age. The same culture just doesn't exist here.

In the words of @Mike83, it's just not a hoops town.

Oh definitely football....and the culture here, the overall quality of the WPIAL (and City) in basketball, lack of a strong AAU presence, definitely the lack of an NBA franchise is all part of it. That still doesn't explain the lack of an athletic, talented 6'8" kid every once in awhile coming through here. And again, 25 years ago, kids like Carmody and Morton would be following Phil Jurkovec's route and be a QB, but they did choose hoops.

 

[BigZeke]

A 6'6 world-class athlete with the handle, he had....yea NBA wasnt a question. The question was how good would he have been? My guess would be high level NBA starter, possibly making a few all-star games. The kid had superhuman athleticism. Ashame he was pushed towards football. He'd probably still be in the NBA right now.

What a shame. Yeah all that NFL $ TP has banked must be awful. Poor guy - LOL Oh & “Pushed toward Football” huh? He was arguably the #1 rated player in the country that year and had colleges openly bidding for his services. He CHOSE to play Football because that was his best chance for success at that time. Could he have made the NBA? Possibly but there are 53 guys on a NFL roster and only 15 tops on a NBA squad. Odds were much better and he certainly made the right choice playing Football in college in this fan’s humble opinion.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

One other thing. I don't think it was a slam dunk Pryor was going to be this superstar NBA player. Look at Sam Young, how great he was in college and he was a fringe NBA player. The NBA seems to have blueprints and Pryor is one of many athletic 6'6" guys without a jumpshot because he never had to rely on a perimeter game. In the Big East or NBA that would not be true.

 

[BigZeke]

One other thing. I don't think it was a slam dunk Pryor was going to be this superstar NBA player. Look at Sam Young, how great he was in college and he was a fringe NBA player. The NBA seems to have blueprints and Pryor is one of many athletic 6'6" guys without a jumpshot because he never had to rely on a perimeter game. In the Big East or NBA that would not be true.

Pryor had an incredible college career and will draw a NFL pension someday, so sitting around lamenting the fact that he didn’t play basketball in college is borderline absurd. The guy is a generational talent for sure in both sports but he 100% absolutely made the right decision to play football in college.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

One other thing. I don't think it was a slam dunk Pryor was going to be this superstar NBA player. Look at Sam Young, how great he was in college and he was a fringe NBA player. The NBA seems to have blueprints and Pryor is one of many athletic 6'6" guys without a jumpshot because he never had to rely on a perimeter game. In the Big East or NBA that would not be true.

Pryor was much better than Young. Stop it. The guy was superhuman. He was a LOCK to make the NBA and have a 10 year career at least. The question would be whether he would have been a bench guy, starter, or all star. We are talking about a ridiculous freakish athlete who actually had very good basketball skill.