Is Syracuse passing us as a program?

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Obviously they have to do it first, and I get that. But they beat us last year. They brought in better transfers than us. They had a better recruiting class than us last year. They have a better recruiting class than us this year.

As one of our fixed annual opponents (if they're even doing that anymore with the addition of three new teams), it would really suck to see them get back on track. That's one we've been able to take for granted - albeit usually not without a good fight - for some time now.

I think we need to root hard for this thing to sputter out early, because Fran Brown has some momentum going right now.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

Obviously they have to do it first, and I get that. But they beat us last year. They brought in better transfers than us. They had a better recruiting class than us last year. They have a better recruiting class than us this year.

As one of our fixed annual opponents (if they're even doing that anymore with the addition of three new teams), it would really suck to see them get back on track. That's one we've been able to take for granted - albeit usually not without a good fight - for some time now.

No.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

No.

We shall see. Can't just assume they'll be down forever, just like the Pitt Stallings/Early Capel basketball program wasn't going to be down forever. Syracuse has some history; they're not exactly Kansas or something.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Obviously they have to do it first, and I get that. But they beat us last year. They brought in better transfers than us. They had a better recruiting class than us last year. They have a better recruiting class than us this year.

As one of our fixed annual opponents (if they're even doing that anymore with the addition of three new teams), it would really suck to see them get back on track. That's one we've been able to take for granted - albeit usually not without a good fight - for some time now.

I think we need to root hard for this thing to sputter out early, because Fran Brown has some momentum going right now.

They are better right now and have a much better recruiter but if this guy wins, he'll be gone and Syracuse wont be able to sustain the winning.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

They are better right now and have a much better recruiter but if this guy wins, he'll be gone and Syracuse wont be able to sustain the winning.

If he wins wins, yeah. But there's probably a tier he could elevate them to where he wins enough to be a pain in the ass but not enough that the better programs come calling. Even just making them a 7-5 program would be annoying.

 

[pittmeister]

Obviously they have to do it first, and I get that. But they beat us last year. They brought in better transfers than us. They had a better recruiting class than us last year. They have a better recruiting class than us this year.

As one of our fixed annual opponents (if they're even doing that anymore with the addition of three new teams), it would really suck to see them get back on track. That's one we've been able to take for granted - albeit usually not without a good fight - for some time now.

I think we need to root hard for this thing to sputter out early, because Fran Brown has some momentum going right now.

Is this an imitation of a SMF post?????

 

[cashisking884]

They have taken a lot of recruits. They have a fairly average individual recruit ranking. But some of that is also because their class is so big, and the bigger the class, the more difficult to maintain a recruit quality ranking.

But 247 Composite has them with one 4* recruit, and he’s a barely 4* ranking.
And then 5 other recruits with a .87 to .88 ranking.

And then the rest are .85 or .86.

It’s is impressive by their standards to maintain a .86+ average recruit ranking with 22 commits. But with little to nothing at the top, that’s more of them increasing the floor, rather than expanding the ceiling. They aren’t taking as many .83 type recruits as they previously did.

But I’m not as concerned about a team that is building what looks more like a “solid” roster compared to a top tier talent roster.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Is this an imitation of a SMF post?????

I hope I'm just being paranoid. I just don't think we should take things like always being better than Syracuse and Georgia Tech for granted. It's not like we are just inherently better than those programs, even if it's felt like it lately. Our places in the hierarchy can flip at any time.

Heck, Many Diaz has a pretty good class going for Duke right now... though I think Duke is disadvantaged enough that taking being better than them in football for granted is okay to do.

All in all, it feels like Pitt football really needs something to galvanize it right now.

 

[WillyDavis33]

They have not yet!

Will they?

No one knows!

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

They have taken a lot of recruits. They have a fairly average individual recruit ranking. But some of that is also because their class is so big, and the bigger the class, the more difficult to maintain a recruit quality ranking.

But 247 Composite has them with one 4* recruit, and he’s a barely 4* ranking.
And then 5 other recruits with a .87 to .88 ranking.

And then the rest are .85 or .86.

It’s is impressive by their standards to maintain a .86+ average recruit ranking with 22 commits. But with little to nothing at the top, that’s more of them increasing the floor, rather than expanding the ceiling. They aren’t taking as many .83 type recruits as they previously did.

But I’m not as concerned about a team that is building what looks more like a “solid” roster compared to a top tier talent roster.

Oh I agree they're not recruiting great or anything like that. But they've typically played us close over the years while recruiting a lot worse. And at least some of their transfers seem notable.

 

[cashisking884]

Oh I agree they're not recruiting great or anything like that. But they've typically played us close over the years while recruiting a lot worse. And at least some of their transfers seem notable.

They look like a team that will at least have comparable talent going forward. Or at least a little more of a talent cushion that will help limit the seasons where the bottom just fell out for them.

Which in itself is not great because it’s not like on a yearly basis you look at the schedule and there are a bunch of teams you say, “we won that game on signing day. The game itself is academic.”

Syracuse was probably one of those teams.
I just wouldn’t say they have surpassed as a program.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

They look like a team that will at least have comparable talent going forward. Or at least a little more of a talent cushion that will help limit the seasons where the bottom just fell out for them.

Which in itself is not great because it’s not like on a yearly basis you look at the schedule and there are a bunch of teams you say, “we won that game on signing day. The game itself is academic.”

Syracuse was probably one of those teams.
I just wouldn’t say they have surpassed as a program.

That's fair, and I can agree with that.

I feel like the Coastal + Syracuse has been a huge advantage in the Narduzzi tenure, and it kind of sucks to see some of those gaps narrowing a bit.

Rutgers is also starting to creep their way out of laughingstock status, which makes northeast recruiting that much more difficult.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

I hope I'm just being paranoid. I just don't think we should take things like always being better than Syracuse and Georgia Tech for granted. It's not like we are just inherently better than those programs, even if it's felt like it lately. Our places in the hierarchy can flip at any time.

Heck, Many Diaz has a pretty good class going for Duke right now... though I think Duke is disadvantaged enough that taking being better than them in football for granted is okay to do.

All in all, it feels like Pitt football really needs something to galvanize it right now.

Pitt needs people that $upport the program to bring in better players. That’s what they need to galvanize Pitt Football.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I hope I'm just being paranoid. I just don't think we should take things like always being better than Syracuse and Georgia Tech for granted. It's not like we are just inherently better than those programs, even if it's felt like it lately. Our places in the hierarchy can flip at any time.

Heck, Many Diaz has a pretty good class going for Duke right now... though I think Duke is disadvantaged enough that taking being better than them in football for granted is okay to do.

All in all, it feels like Pitt football really needs something to galvanize it right now.

You are being paranoid.

 

[pittmeister]

I hope I'm just being paranoid. I just don't think we should take things like always being better than Syracuse and Georgia Tech for granted. It's not like we are just inherently better than those programs, even if it's felt like it lately. Our places in the hierarchy can flip at any time.

Heck, Many Diaz has a pretty good class going for Duke right now... though I think Duke is disadvantaged enough that taking being better than them in football for granted is okay to do.

All in all, it feels like Pitt football really needs something to galvanize it right now.

I don't disagree with the premise of your post. However, as you said, seeing it on the field is another issue.

Fran Brown is a good recruiter. However, he needs to capitalize immediately on the field, or the good karma he's enjoying will fade quickly.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Pitt needs people that $upport the program to bring in better players. That’s what they need to galvanize Pitt Football.

I don't disagree with that. I think too many people have gotten too comfortable just thinking that we can continue to get off the bus and be better than some of these programs. It's a testament to Pitt that we have been better than them, but it's not like it's a birth right to better than Syracuse and GT. We need to improve our NIL game.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If he wins wins, yeah. But there's probably a tier he could elevate them to where he wins enough to be a pain in the ass but not enough that the better programs come calling. Even just making them a 7-5 program would be annoying.

Yea, I suppose if he gets them to "Narduzzi level" (ie 7-5), that would be annoying because you cant count them as a win.

 

[chirurgo]

Assuming the ACC still exists and/or Syracuse and Pitt remain on each other’s schedule, it’s good thing to have Syracuse be competitive again. It’s been far too long. It benefits the strength of schedule and better for the conference if they are ranked again at some point. Boston College too will be better with Bill O’Brien and the conference needs that as well. Pitt has to get better every year whether they are 3-9 or 12-0. That’s college football now more than ever with the transfer portal.

 

[Las Panteras]

Do they have more NIL money? More big fish?

Then yes, they will overtake us

 

[h2p_5150]

They appear to have closed the gap, at least on the recruiting trail. If Fran Brown can coach, that will be a 50/50 game instead of Pitt winning 80% of them.

 

[pittdan77]

Oh wow, been a few years since we did this thread. I think the last time was 2018.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Oh wow, been a few years since we did this thread. I think the last time was 2018.

 

[thebadby2]

Obviously they have to do it first, and I get that. But they beat us last year. They brought in better transfers than us. They had a better recruiting class than us last year. They have a better recruiting class than us this year.

As one of our fixed annual opponents (if they're even doing that anymore with the addition of three new teams), it would really suck to see them get back on track. That's one we've been able to take for granted - albeit usually not without a good fight - for some time now.

I think we need to root hard for this thing to sputter out early, because Fran Brown has some momentum going right now.

They're just benefiting from a little new coach mojo. They will be back to reality in no time and their place in the scrapheap of modern college football irrelevance is secure.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

it’s good thing to have Syracuse be competitive again. It’s been far too long. It benefits the strength of schedule

Cant tell if you are being serious because a strong SOS is the last thing Pitt needs

 

[HailToPitt725]

They didn’t pass us; they ran right through us… with a tight end, too.

 

[Lothrop605]

The worst Pitt season since 1998 (after back to back top 25 finishes) and now Syracuse, who’s coach has never coached a game before, has passed us.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

The same clowns thought SU was going to pass us under Dino Babers when he had 1 good season.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

The same clowns thought SU was going to pass us under Dino Babers when he had 1 good season.

No I didn't, actually. So why make that up?

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

No I didn't, actually. So why make that up?

I just noticed Kentucky is #17. Didn't we lose recruits to them?

I recall us losing several good recruits to them. Well after knocking off Miss St. they come in at 17 and have a great chance a 9-10 season

pittsburgh.forums.rivals.com

It was basically the same nonsense. Some posters stood up for Duzz and some slobbered over Babers. The thread is 2 pages long. Feel free to read the whole thing. It’s Groundhog Day.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I just noticed Kentucky is #17. Didn't we lose recruits to them?

I recall us losing several good recruits to them. Well after knocking off Miss St. they come in at 17 and have a great chance a 9-10 season

pittsburgh.forums.rivals.com

It was basically the same nonsense. Some posters stood up for Duzz and some slobbered over Babers. The thread is 2 pages long. Feel free to read the whole thing. It’s Groundhog Day.

You don't think I could find 1,001 examples in the other direction as well?

I posted during the Tennessee game that Slovis sucks, and it got laughed at by the Pantherlair cheerleader squad. Then, ironically as soon as he left, he was anointed as the scapegoat for that season.

Same thing happened with Cignetti.

The fact of the matter is this:

1) Syracuse is the new Alabama

2) The End.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Something else to consider re: Syracuse: their basketball program has obviously taken a step back. Does that mean more of their boosters will be inclined to help (what appears to be) a rising football program, or does that mean less money coming in that’d help football? If the latter, who knows how sustainable Fran Brown’s recruiting will be without the NIL to keep up.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Something else to consider re: Syracuse: their basketball program has obviously taken a step back. Does that mean more of their boosters will be inclined to help (what appears to be) a rising football program, or does that mean less money coming in that’d help football? If the latter, who knows how sustainable Fran Brown’s recruiting will be without the NIL to keep up.

I saw something a few years ago that had them listed surprisingly high as far as "fan base sizes" go.

In fact, here is another one I found when I typed in "college football fan base sizes."

https://ugawire.usatoday.com/lists/...ichigan-wolverines-penn-state-florida-gators/

May or may not be accurate, but it would seem like some NIL potential is at least there if someone can figure out a way to galvanize the fans. With local recruiting being what it now is, I certainly don't think they're at any more of a disadvantage than Pitt as a program. We have a better recruiting base, but WPIAL 4-stars might as well be apples on the tree in the Garden of Eden.

 

[Pittisit4me]

You are being paranoid.

Is he??? I know it was just one year, but, they beat us by running us over with a tightend playing qb. Pause and think about that for a minute. I am not ready to anoint them as a much improved program, however, we were really bad last year. Historically bad really. 3 P5 wins. I mean, you don't have to get a hell of alot better to pass a team that is getting considerably worse.
This year it will be interesting to see what happens when we play. We lost Coach Partridge who recruited and anchored the best part of our team under the Duzz. Unless our new offense is more dynamic than I expect, I think the Werewolf is right to be concerned.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I saw something a few years ago that had them listed surprisingly high as far as "fan base sizes" go.

In fact, here is another one I found when I typed in "college football fan base sizes."

https://ugawire.usatoday.com/lists/...ichigan-wolverines-penn-state-florida-gators/

May or may not be accurate, but it would seem like some NIL potential is at least there if someone can figure out a way to galvanize the fans. With local recruiting being what it now is, I certainly don't think they're at any more of a disadvantage than Pitt as a program. We have a better recruiting base, but WPIAL 4-stars might as well be apples on the tree in the Garden of Eden.

I’m not shocked by those numbers because Syracuse has never felt like a traditional private school; they have a decently-sized enrollment and alumni base. To me, they’ve always felt like the “true” flagship university of New York.

 

[MarySki]

No, 3 winning seasons out of 10, does not make a program.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

No, 3 winning seasons out of 10, does not make a program.

Correct and it’s 5 winning seasons over the last 20 years.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

The same clowns thought SU was going to pass us under Dino Babers when he had 1 good season.

I remember when a certain poster used to brag about how Duzz was in trouble because the ACC had these new "real" coaches like Larry Fedora, Justin Fuente, and Bronco Mendenhall, lol...

 

[HailToPitt725]

Correct and it’s 5 winning seasons over the last 20 years.

When you think about it, they’re part of the reason why the Big East (and now the ACC) has such a terrible reputation:

• Syracuse: won Big East in 1997
• Boston College: ranked #2 back in 2007
• Virginia Tech: juggernaut in the 90s and 2000s
• Miami: juggernaut in early 2000s

At least we’ve carried our own weight over the past ten years. Had the other former Big East schools at least performed to our level, the narrative surrounding the ACC would be much different today.

 

[pittdan77]

I remember when a certain poster used to brag about how Duzz was in trouble because the ACC had these new "real" coaches like Larry Fedora, Justin Fuente, and Bronco Mendenhall, lol...

This is one of the funnier things that happen on this board. I could also imagine the screaming and crying that would go along with Pitt hiring a guy who has almost no P5 experience and has a recruiting class average that is almost identical to Duzz's.

 

[PantherRama724]

Syracuse is a tough place to win. It’s not a great location and the Dome is a dump. Brown was a great hire but as others have said, he’ll get poached before he builds anything sustainable. We’re not without issues, but zero chance Syracuse passes us on an overall level