James Conner vs Najee

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I think that’s revisionist history. JC was popular here. He just got hurt too often.

That's exactly correct. I don't remember too many people criticizing his ability at all. The sentiment among almost everyone was, "I think he's a good player, but there's just no way you can invest in someone who is hurt this often." A lot of people suggested making him a third down back, and even that was usually proceeded by, "But he'd still probably get hurt even if he only took 10 snaps/game."

 

[Fk_Pitt]

No, he got hurt every time he stepped onto the field. It was almost cartoonish.

He is the better back, but there was a 0% chance the Steelers could have moved forward with him as the feature guy, unless you were comfortable with a heavy dose of Benny Snell while Conner watched in street clothes.

This is exactly right. But when media and fans question his durability/availability, it’s bashing, hating, or “subtle jabs”.

No one other than trolls like mark madden hated Conner. They simply have common sense and acknowledged that his availability, while unfortunate, was a problem for the Steelers depth chart and in the front office as they had to evaluate a contract renewal or cutting him loose.

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

i was a huge Conner fan (Still am kind of) but i just think that Tomlin really should have used him as a Rb1 - Rb1-a situation, maybe even a 60-40. thought that would have helped his career and success..

he succeeded great as a backup for Cardinals his first year. of course he's been getting the bulk of the carries recently as a starter and holding up well so who knows.

Whether it was Conner, or Bell before him, I always thought Tomlin put too much workload on one guy. Maybe they just didn’t have other solid backs? That’s why I thought getting another guy could’ve reduced the wear on JC. Anyway, Tomlin seems to have more toward a committee approach with Najee and Warren.

 

[Pitt79]

This is exactly right. But when media and fans question his durability/availability, it’s bashing, hating, or “subtle jabs”.

It's the same thing now with Pickett, some people here think they are ''unfairly" bashing him, last night was his 15th start and the first time he threw two TD passes in a game, and the offense rarely scores 20 in a single game, I think that should make you legitimately question if he was worth a #1 pick? Last night was better, but still not enough to crown him as Ben's successor, IMO

 

[Fk_Pitt]

It's the same thing now with Pickett, some people here think they are ''unfairly" bashing him, last night was his 15th start and the first time he threw two TD passes in a game, and the offense rarely scores 20 in a single game, I think that should make you legitimately question if he was worth a #1 pick? Last night was better, but still not enough to crown him as Ben's successor, IMO

I get frustrated with the criticism of Kenny in the media because I know, we all know, that he hasn’t been dealt a good hand. The criticism of his accuracy is an example. Yet, I watched NFL football all day yesterday and watched elite NFL QBs miss throws. It’s just that Kenny is under a microscope locally so he is going to be ripped for it. But the thing is, it’s everyone in the media, including Pitt friendly media. And why is that? Because he’s not blameless…if you’re objective.

 

[Pitt79]

I get frustrated with the criticism of Kenny in the media because I know, we all know, that he hasn’t been dealt a good hand. The criticism of his accuracy is an example. Yet, I watched NFL football all day yesterday and watched elite NFL QBs miss throws. It’s just that Kenny is under a microscope locally so he is going to be ripped for it. But the thing is, it’s everyone in the media, including Pitt friendly media. And why is that? Because he’s not blameless…if you’re objective.

I agree that he has a horrible playbook, bad play calling, horrible offensive coaches and bad pass protection, but he has made a lot of bad plays even when the chance is there, last night I thought he was very good, his 2 TD throws where excellent, hope he can build on that.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Najee has a $3.26M AAV with 1 more season on his deal after this one
James has a $7.23m aav with 1 more season on his deal after this one

One has 51 Carrie’s for 266 yards and 2 TD
The other has 35 Carries for 139 yards and 0TD

I like James - but his stats would look a helluva lot like Najee’s in this terrible offense for twice the cap hit

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Najee has a $3.26M AAV with 1 more season on his deal after this one
James has a $7.23m aav with 1 more season on his deal after this one

One has 51 Carrie’s for 266 yards and 2 TD
The other has 35 Carries for 139 yards and 0TD

I like James - but his stats would look a helluva lot like Najee’s in this terrible offense for twice the cap hit

good point and i cant disagree with your last statement about how he'd look behind this line.

 

[PittPharm2002]

good point and i cant disagree with your last statement about how he'd look behind this line.

James is ranked 9th among RBs with AAV
Najee is 23rd

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

James is ranked 9th among RBs with AAV
Najee is 23rd

so in short, naj is pretty bad but he's kinda cheap so it's a win for the steelers?

how about we just play the better RB with Warren who's AAV i am sure is significantly lower than both Najee and James

 

[pitt90seven]

It’s really a shame JC couldn’t stay healthy as a Steeler. If he had they probably wouldn’t have moved on from him and blown a 1st round pick on Najee Harris, and JC would be a productive TD scoring back in Pittsburgh instead of Arizona.

i follow JC pretty intently. he's very good when healthy. but he has a pitch count - pretty much anything over 15 carries and he's guaranteed to be injured somehow, someway. a couple of times the cards lost another RB and he needed to carry the load, he missed time the next few games.

most teams have RB's who get the majority of carries. not exactly the old days bell cow situation but somewhat close. you just can't rely on JC the way the steelers want to play football. he would've needed to come back as a #2 guy, and no player wants that. he found a good situation for himself in AZ.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

James is ranked 9th among RBs with AAV
Najee is 23rd

Not sure what this means. But all I know is James is better and wouldn’t have cost the Steelers a 1st round pick if he was just a bit more reliable.

Then again, the Steelers are the stupid idiots wasting a 1st round pick on a RB.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Not sure what this means. But all I know is James is better and wouldn’t have cost the Steelers a 1st round pick if he was just a bit more reliable.

Then again, the Steelers are the stupid idiots wasting a 1st round pick on a RB.

I think it’s avg annual hit on salary or something like that. Averages out salary and any bonus or unbalanced, backloaded contract.


Basically Conner makes more. Of course he does, he’s under his second contract while naj is in his rookie deal.

 

[upj87]

It's the same thing now with Pickett, some people here think they are ''unfairly" bashing him, last night was his 15th start and the first time he threw two TD passes in a game, and the offense rarely scores 20 in a single game, I think that should make you legitimately question if he was worth a #1 pick? Last night was better, but still not enough to crown him as Ben's successor, IMO

fair enough...however, Ben was not Ben under Canada and not subject to the same criticisms or have you forgotten 2021?

 

[lilspainishflea]

Najee has a $3.26M AAV with 1 more season on his deal after this one
James has a $7.23m aav with 1 more season on his deal after this one

One has 51 Carrie’s for 266 yards and 2 TD
The other has 35 Carries for 139 yards and 0TD

I like James - but his stats would look a helluva lot like Najee’s in this terrible offense for twice the cap hit

You're ignoring the opportunity cost of using a 1st round pick. I'd rather have a $7.23M RB and a 1st than a $3.26M RB, especially when the former has been more productive over the last 20 games.

 

[PittPharm2002]

You're ignoring the opportunity cost of using a 1st round pick. I'd rather have a $7.23M RB and a 1st than a $3.26M RB, especially when the former has been more productive over the last 20 games.

I’m not because any other position picked would be substantially a larger cap hit . Just like spending $4mil extra on a part time running back also has an opportunity cost.

We used a first round pick to trade for a safety
Who costs $16 mil a year now -
That extra cap space also helped us pay highsmith .
See how that works

Or essentially having Harris instead of James means we signed Kazee.

Picks themselves don’t have value - players so

 

[Upg bobcat]

I’m not because any other position picked would be substantially a larger cap hit . Just like spending $4mil extra on a part time running back also has an opportunity cost.

We used a first round pick to trade for a safety
Who costs $16 mil a year now -
That extra cap space also helped us pay highsmith .
See how that works

Or essentially having Harris instead of James means we signed Kazee.

Picks themselves don’t have value - players so

Yeah I do not like drafting any RBs in the first round so I don't really like the Harris pick. But he's worth more than half the value of Conner, at less than half the cost. Conner would struggle just as much as Harris behind the current OL. It's hard to say the Steelers made the wrong move by letting Conner sign elsewhere and drafting Harris.

 

[Pitt79]

fair enough...however, Ben was not Ben under Canada and not subject to the same criticisms or have you forgotten 2021?

Ben deserved the benefit of the doubt, he had already delivered a Hall of Fame career, there's no comparison between him and Kenny, until Kenny strings together like a dozen productive years as a starting QB.

 

[lilspainishflea]

I’m not because any other position picked would be substantially a larger cap hit . Just like spending $4mil extra on a part time running back also has an opportunity cost.

We used a first round pick to trade for a safety
Who costs $16 mil a year now -
That extra cap space also helped us pay highsmith .
See how that works

Or essentially having Harris instead of James means we signed Kazee.

Picks themselves don’t have value - players so

That's not true.

The pick gives you access to a cost-controlled and talented player. Minkah's AAV as a rookie was like $4 million and he was an All Pro in two of those years. An All Pro Safety on the market is closer to $22 million. An All Pro RB is about $9 million (Nick Chubb). So you save at most $5 million by drafting a good RB (which Najee isn't) versus close to $18 million at another high leverage position. And you also cut off access to that other player at the high leverage position forever versus RB which is always available on the market.

You don't win at team building by drafting an All Pro (again, Najee isn't) at RB so you can sign a $5 million player on the market. You win by drafting an All Pro in the secondary and saving $18 million so you can sign TJ Watt.

Taking Najee in the 1st was stupid because not only is he not the most productive back on the team, the best case scenario outcome him giving us access to a player like DJ Chark or Mecole Hardman. There's no upside.

 

[Upg bobcat]

You don't win at team building by drafting an All Pro (again, Najee isn't) at RB so you can sign a $5 million player on the market. You win by drafting an All Pro in the secondary and saving $18 million so you can sign TJ Watt.

The Steelers haven't drafted a pro bowl DB, let alone an all-pro DB, in decades, have they? Troy was the last one I think. Haden and Minkah have had pro bowl seasons, but we did not draft either one.

At least Harris has made a pro bowl.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

The Steelers haven't drafted a pro bowl DB, let alone an all-pro DB, in decades, have they? Troy was the last one I think. Haden and Minkah have had pro bowl seasons, but we did not draft either one.

At least Harris has made a pro bowl.

tomlin and cobert's ability to identify CB (and safety) talent in the draft is suspect to say the least.. Picks dating back to 2014. I havent even heard of 1/2 these guys.

Trey norwood
Antoine Brooks
Justin Layne
Terrell Edmunds
Cameron Sutton
Brian Allen
Sean Davis
Artie Burns
Doran Grant
Senquez Golson
Gerod Holliman
Shaquille Richardson

 

[doubleAA's]

You said people hated on him because he was from Pitt. I don’t remember any hate. He was liked and respected.

Well, I guess you had to be a Steeler fan at the time then, he was constantly ripped apart in the media and on twitter from the state penn crowd. I dont think there is even a question about it really, it happened.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Well, I guess you had to be a Steeler fan at the time then, he was constantly ripped apart in the media and on twitter from the state penn crowd. I dont think there is even a question about it really, it happened.

Well twitter is your first mistake. It’s a cesspool. Lowest of the low. If you listened and used twitter as a barometer for the last two days, you’d think Minkah Fitzpatrick is the dirtiest player in football and he should be suspended for a year based on the penalty he took Sunday night. But anyone who pays attention to real mediums knows that any logical and responsible person and professional didn’t see it that way.

Just like with Conner. Any rationale person who pays attention to what the radio, print and tv media said about him when he was here knows that he was virtually respected and liked by all. And any rationale person knows that stating that the Steelers had to and were considering his durability isn’t hating on Conner because he was a panther. It’s just reporting the obvious.

 

[lilspainishflea]

The Steelers haven't drafted a pro bowl DB, let alone an all-pro DB, in decades, have they? Troy was the last one I think. Haden and Minkah have had pro bowl seasons, but we did not draft either one.

At least Harris has made a pro bowl.

It's really hard to draft an All Pro defensive back if you're always picking 20+. Most of them are top 20 picks. A lot of them are top 10 picks. The Steelers just don't sniff those guys most years. But yeah, they still suck at drafting them.

My theory on team construction is to just load up on those high leverage positions, especially compared to RB. I don't see the value of not only burning a valuable R1 pick on a RB and then also having to pay that RB a R1 rate instead of getting a cost controlled player at a more expensive position. I think that's pretty conventional wisdom at this point. The Steelers are just so frickin arrogant that they don't care what others do or don't do. It makes almost zero impact on their decisionmaking. I just think it's unwise to be that stubborn and iconoclastic.

The evidence bears this out. The NFL rushing leader has won 2 Super Bowls since 1995 and zero since 1999. You just don't need the best running game in the NFL to win big and IMO you actually hurt yourself by investing premium picks into RB versus QB, OL, WR, pass rush, and DB.

 

[doubleAA's]

Well twitter is your first mistake. It’s a cesspool. Lowest of the low. If you listened and used twitter as a barometer for the last two days, you’d think Minkah Fitzpatrick is the dirtiest player in football and he should be suspended for a year based on the penalty he took Sunday night. But anyone who pays attention to real mediums knows that any logical and responsible person and professional didn’t see it that way.

Just like with Conner. Any rationale person who pays attention to what the radio, print and tv media said about him when he was here knows that he was virtually respected and liked by all. And any rationale person knows that stating that the Steelers had to and were considering his durability isn’t hating on Conner because he was a panther. It’s just reporting the obvious.

I dont use twitter at all.

You can reinvent whatever you want, like I said, it isnt an argument. It is the same as Pickett now.

 

[pittdan77]

No one other than trolls like mark madden hated Conner.

Madden even hates himself. Going at a popular Pitt player is just icing on the cake for him.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I dont use twitter at all.

You can reinvent whatever you want, like I said, it isnt an argument. It is the same as Pickett now.

Just because you say it isn’t an argument, doesn’t make it true. There was no Conner hate and there are people in this very thread who don’t agree with you.

You can choose to be objective, or you can choose to stay mired in victimhood believing that everyone disrespects and hates Pitt and has it out for any player associated with the university.

And since you brought up Pickett, did you happen to notice essentially everyone in the local media anointing Pickett as the next big thing and poised to have a breakout season because of the camp and preseason? Did you happen to notice that probably 75% of the sports media was inserting Kenny into a second tier of NFL QB’s just outside of the 1st tier of proven stars like Maholmes, Burrow and Allen? And yeah many of them are now second guessing themselves because of Kenny’s performances after the first two weeks, but that’s not based on where he played college ball. It is based on field results and performance. Do they really need to apologize for wanting to see better from him or should they just ignore his limited production? Should they say he’s as good as Patrick Mahomes? Will that make you feel better?

 

[Upg bobcat]

It's really hard to draft an All Pro defensive back if you're always picking 20+. Most of them are top 20 picks. A lot of them are top 10 picks. The Steelers just don't sniff those guys most years. But yeah, they still suck at drafting them.

My theory on team construction is to just load up on those high leverage positions, especially compared to RB. I don't see the value of not only burning a valuable R1 pick on a RB and then also having to pay that RB a R1 rate instead of getting a cost controlled player at a more expensive position. I think that's pretty conventional wisdom at this point. The Steelers are just so frickin arrogant that they don't care what others do or don't do. It makes almost zero impact on their decisionmaking. I just think it's unwise to be that stubborn and iconoclastic.

The evidence bears this out. The NFL rushing leader has won 2 Super Bowls since 1995 and zero since 1999. You just don't need the best running game in the NFL to win big and IMO you actually hurt yourself by investing premium picks into RB versus QB, OL, WR, pass rush, and DB.

Harris was drafted 24th overall. So you acknowledge that the odds are strongly against the Steelers getting an All Pro defensive back even if they did not select Harris.

 

[jtownknowitall]

On what?

James Conner was super popular here, what does that have to do with anything I said? It was the negative press, negative fan base and the hatred to all things Pitt by some.

It was obvious he is/was talented and had a great work ethic, the Conner bashing led us to getting rid of him and wasting a first rounder on Najee

Exactly 💯!!! Madden as well the usual Pittsburgh media Pitt haters threw subtle jabs. Madden is a clown and should stick to succer

do you read what they write? I try to avoid it as much as possible but the evidence is right there in front of you. After one game, Cook was proclaiming Allar as being "worth the wait" among other superlatives. Yet, his article to preview the season, he said he "needed to see more" from Pickett before saying if he was a worthy replacement to big Ben. And of course Cook pounced all over Pickett after the Browns game.

I could go on and on but I think you get the idea.

I'm not sure which one of you is Jan Bradiest of the Jan Bradys

 

[pierre93]

I'm not sure which one of you is Jan Bradiest of the Jan Bradys

You as well the person who liked your post live in trees. You should have some conversations with former prominent Pitt players and ask them how they feel about the Pittsburgh media. But keep up your naive narratives.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Harris was drafted 24th overall. So you acknowledge that the odds are strongly against the Steelers getting an All Pro defensive back even if they did not select Harris.

There are guys who go after 20 that end up as AP though. Xavien Howard was one. We passed on him for Artie Burns.

And even if the odds are low that we find a top 2 Corner at pick 24, the odds are good that we find cheap and effective play from numerous OL, WR, OLB, and DB in that range. You need lots of those positions. You only really need 2 guys at RB and oftentimes bodies off the street are fine.

The upside of selecting Harris 24th is negligible. He doesn't help you win a Super Bowl and he gets the same amount of guaranteed money as Conner, a player he has performed worse than going on 2 seasons now. I'd rather roll the dice on getting a dude who at least has a chance of turning into an AP player versus a level of production that I can buy literally any year on the Free Agent market.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I dont use twitter at all.

You can reinvent whatever you want, like I said, it isnt an argument. It is the same as Pickett now.

He’s saying the Pgh media is rational and fair.

Two of these rational and fair guys on the Fan spent nearly an hour last Wed saying that Pickett stinks this year (that was their word, not mine) because he got married this past summer.

Then one of them (granted not both) called Pickett a coward for not staying in the pocket longer because “he’s only had two concussions and Tua has had three”.

This is the local expertise that we’re supposed to respect.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

He’s saying the Pgh media is rational and fair.

Two of these rational and fair guys on the Fan spent nearly an hour last Wed saying that Pickett stinks this year (that was their word, not mine) because he got married this past summer.

Then one of them (granted not both) called Pickett a coward for not staying in the pocket longer because “he’s only had two concussions and Tua has had three”.

This is the local expertise that we’re supposed to respect.

And Chris collinsworth hates the Steelers blah blah blah. Been hearing this from Steeler fans for decades. It’s the same thing.

These people in the media say 95 good things about guys like Pickett, but the 5 times they say something negative about him or Conner, or whoever, it’s somehow an anti Pitt agenda.

The inferiority complex some of my brethren have here is disturbing.

How can I help my fellow Lair friends overcome this ailment?

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

And Chris collinsworth hates the Steelers blah blah blah. Been hearing this from Steeler fans for decades. It’s the same thing.

These people in the media say 95 good things about guys like Pickett, but the 5 times they say something negative about him or Conner, or whoever, it’s somehow an anti Pitt agenda.

The inferiority complex some of my brethren have here is disturbing.

How can I help my fellow Lair friends overcome this ailment?

It appears you are the problem. You are a lukewarm Pitt fan who would rather talk about soccer.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

And Chris collinsworth hates the Steelers blah blah blah. Been hearing this from Steeler fans for decades. It’s the same thing.

These people in the media say 95 good things about guys like Pickett, but the 5 times they say something negative about him or Conner, or whoever, it’s somehow an anti Pitt agenda.

The inferiority complex some of my brethren have here is disturbing.

How can I help my fellow Lair friends overcome this ailment?

Blah blah nothing. I didn’t say they were wrong to criticize Pickett.

I said, what they were saying to criticize him was mentally retarded.

Unless you think they were valid?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

It appears you are the problem. You are a lukewarm Pitt fan who would rather talk about soccer.

I’m probably the biggest Kenny cheerleader there is. I get annoyed when people place blame on him, yet I have to recognize that he’s certainly not where he needs to be after 16 games but at the same time know that it has only been 16 games.

Case in point, Poni and Mueller on the Fan. Poni is the biggest Kenny cheerleader on the planet, and Mueller is indifferent at this point, which is fair. When I hear Mueller saying that Kenny still isn’t accurate and missed numerous throws on Sunday, it drives me crazy. The box score showed 18/30 or whatever (without looking), there were some drops like the ball that hit Muth in the chest. So he literally could have been 22/30 for 280…and the last time I checked even the most elite QBs miss throws. But when they watch every single play, they are going to pick things apart. They’d be doing it with whoever the QB is. The QB just happens to be a Panther, and it bothers insecure Pitt fans.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I’m probably the biggest Kenny cheerleader there is. I get annoyed when people place blame on him, yet I have to recognize that he’s certainly not where he needs to be after 16 games but at the same time know that it has only been 16 games.

Case in point, Poni and Mueller on the Fan. Poni is the biggest Kenny cheerleader on the planet, and Mueller is indifferent at this point, which is fair. When I hear Mueller saying that Kenny still isn’t accurate and missed numerous throws on Sunday, it drives me crazy. The box score showed 18/30 or whatever (without looking), there were some drops like the ball that hit Muth in the chest. So he literally could have been 22/30 for 280…and the last time I checked even the most elite QBs miss throws. But when they watch every single play, they are going to pick things apart. They’d be doing it with whoever the QB is. The QB just happens to be a Panther, and it bothers insecure Pitt fans.

Mueller was the one who called Pickett a coward compared to Tua. And he was serious. “He’s only had two concussions”. 😳

To be fair, they might have been somewhat facetious over being critical of his getting married. Only somewhat though. And they stretched the schtick for an entire hour, or thereabouts (I was waiting for new tires at the time).

Later, some woman from the NFL network was a guest on the show, and chastised them for being so ridiculous about KP. She even said “you guys will probably hustle me off the show for saying this”… and they did

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Mueller was the one who called Pickett a coward compared to Tua. And he was serious. “He’s only had two concussions”. 😳

To be fair, they might have been somewhat facetious over being critical of his getting married. Only somewhat though. And they stretched the schtick for an entire hour, or thereabouts (I was waiting for new tires at the time).

Later, some woman from the NFL network was a guest on the show, and chastised them for being so ridiculous about KP. She even said “you guys will probably hustle me off the show for saying this”… and they did

Sure Mueller was being facetious. If you listen to them enough, you learn to know exactly how they are about things and then don’t overreact to anecdotal things they say. Both are Pitt supporters, as well as the 3rd guy on the show Donnie Football… so in regards to the conversation at hand, they aren’t ripping Kenny because he’s a pitt guy. If anything, they have a bit of a bias because he IS a Pitt guy. I mean, Poni has steelers winning like 13 games and going to the Super Bowl because of his admiration of Kenny. And that’s not him being facetious either.

As far as the getting married thing, it did remind me of the famous quote from Jack Nicklaus regarding Tiger. He said let’s see how he does after he gets married. And well, we saw what happened. Lol.

 

[pierre93]

It appears you are the problem. You are a lukewarm Pitt fan who would rather talk about soccer.

Also follow the pens with blubber a$$

 

[jtownknowitall]

You as well the person who liked your post live in trees. You should have some conversations with former prominent Pitt players and ask them how they feel about the Pittsburgh media. But keep up your naive narratives.

Oh boo hoo hoo. Jan.