well Notre Dane and Ohio St did what you said so there is precedent. I think it's foolish.
JH to Chargers
- Thread starter Pitt2006
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The path to being a HC has shifted over the past few years, for a long time it was P5 OC -> MAC HC -> Lower Level P5 HC -> Big Time HC and now you have sitting G5 HCs leaving to be coordinators. Resources and coaching salaries have played a huge part but it is more that the OC at Alabama knows how to run a large program more than the HC at Troy does.
I totally get it - he's been in the program for some years now - he clearly knows the lay of the land. So your would go and hire a guy from Middle Tennessee State because he was a HC there? And if he drives the program over the cliff - you get a new HC and move on.
What about Dabo? Or Kirby for that matter. I can keep going but it's fruitless to keep this debate going when there's no merit to the other side.
First your debate is not with me. I gave you samples of recent blue bloods who hired from with in. I dont think its smart, but that is my opinion but does the facts back it up?
As for your examples you need to put context into it. I'll give you Kirby, but Dabo I will not. Kirby took over for Richt who had Georgia a very solid top program. Nothing like They are now under Kirby but they were a power team. So them hiring a coordinator was a risk.
I will not give you Dabo. Dabo took over for Tommy Bowden. Clemson was a mediocre team. They were nothing special when he was hired, so it made sense that they gave a coordinator a chance.
What does it all mean? It means what people look for in a coach is cyclical. Sometimes they want the hot head coach from the lower ranks. Now it appears they are shifting towards promoting from within.
Is one better than the other? Tough to say. Both ways can work and both ways can fail. It takes 3-4 years (no matter what anyone says) to see if that particular hire was good or bad.
Smart was groomed by the GOAT at various high level p5 schools, and even the NFL, over 10+ years before getting the UGA job. He was widely considered the best coordinator in college football for years, and was just waiting for the right opportunity.
Moore is the definition of a lottery ticket hire. If UM wants to hire a lottery ticket, good for them. Doesn't change the fact that it's an awful risky hire for a job like that.
Yeah, Clemson was not Clemson when Dabo took it over. He also had a few years of assistant head coaching experience there.
I don't know why this new trend is as much of a thing as it is, but I'm sure it has something to do with big-time coaches being happy with the guaranteed contracts they're getting where they're at and not wanting to have to be the guy who follows what is basically a legend.
All that fine and dandy but the discussion point was hiring a HC who was never a HC...don't move the goal post. And time will tell if it's an awful hire or not.
What goal post am I moving? Are you suggesting the hiring of Kirby Smart and Sherrone Moore come with the same level of risk?
The point people are making is the national champ shouldn't have to wait and see if JH's successor can be a good HC. They are literally on top of the college football world and have mass amounts of resources.
Do you think Michigan and the 12.5 mill/year they were prepared to pay Harbaugh would have to settle for the HC at MTSU?
Let’s see what happens in the next couple of years. One of us will be right, and if our a subsist Siri
I thought it was bad there too, and thought they could have done way better. He has won there as I suspect Moore will at Mich because let's face it, it is hard to lose at certain schools. But have you spoken to OSU fans? They are not happy with Day at all. Many consider him a failure because he cannot get over the hump. That is the crazy expectations at a place like OSU and Mich. But when you are OSU and Mich, you are going to expect to win all 12 games and be in the CFP. It is a pressure cooker because if you go 9-3, 10-2, 8-4, 10-2 in 4 years, at most schools, you get an extension. You get fired at a handful of schools OSU and Mich being 2 of them, with that record.
A program like Michigan should hire a Top 5 coach. If Sherrone Moore was hired at Pitt, there would be outrage. But he's good enough for Michigan?
That does happen, but Michigan didn't fire their coach. They offered him a deal to be the highest paid coach in college football, and the big sticking point that Michigan eventually caved on to try to get Harbaugh to stay was that they were going to take the language out of his contract that he could be fired for cause for the NCAA violations.
I'm just saying I assume "parting ways," however it happened, will have the same net effect with sanctions. They're supposed to follow the coach and not the program more now. I realize they didn't terminate him on their own volition.
Because he was being courted for several P5 head coaching jobs? Because he learned offense under Chip Kelly and coached for 15 years in college and the NFL? Because he was being pursued for NFL OC positions while at OSU?
Help me out here.
Obviously you are looking for a racial sparing match. Good luck in your search for that but im not interested.
That's not the point, the issue or the discussion. The discussion is based on promoting or hiring a HC who didn't have previous head coaching experience. Now, it's changing again. First it was because it's Michigan, that was debunked, now it's because Day was being courted by other teams. But keep trying...you'll get to another non related point.
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No...not at all! But it's quite interesting that this is even a discussion point. Makes you wonder.
Isn't this a somewhat unique situation? Harbaugh is voluntary leaving, they just won their first outright National Championship since 1948, they have some sort of punishment from the NCAA coming, the last time they hired an outsider it failed spectacularly, and it's almost February. Why wouldn't you take a shot with someone from within? How many players would they lose to the portal during a long coaching search, how many players would hit the portal if the new coach brings in a totally new O or D, how do you sell the just won National Championship to recruits if its an entirely new coaching staff, how much will it cost if the new coach fails and you have to fire them? Michigan is taking a gamble, if Moore doesn't work out they can bounce him quickly and go after a "big name".
That wasn’t the real issue-and word is Mich was prepared to work out a compromise on that (with a very specific definition of “cause”)—he was headed to the Chargers no matter what. His negotiations with Michigan were essentially just leverage to improve his contract with San Diego.
The UM press conference with AD Ward Manuel and UM President Ono was pathetic. They were basically both apologizing profusely to the fan base and alums, saying we did everything we could to keep him, including begging. Like Saban, Jimbo had become bigger than the institution that employed him. Unlike Saban, Jimbo always had his eye on the NFL. At some point, no matter how great a coach a guy is, if he isn’t happy to be where he is, let him walk and tell the faithful we’re gonna find someone who wants to be here.
When Sherrone Moore is announced as next UM HC, the happiest people on the planet will be Ryan Day and James Franklin. Just as the happiest man on the planet the day Urban left OSU was Harbaugh.
It's almost as if coaching experience and background doesn't matter. Who knew that was unrelated to the discussion?
You can take your victory lap on whatever singular issue you think is being debated....
You keep moving that goal post why don't you?! Now I know how the Quips feel dealing with the PIAA.
Sherrone Moore is a lottery ticket hire for Michigan. That's my goalpost, and has been from my first post in this thread.
You're the one that asked about Ryan Day, and I simply responded to your post. I responded to Mike about Kirby Smart. You don't want to hear it, no problem.
Don't think it's that hard to figure out. Anyway, he's hired and I don't wish him any ill will. Seems like a good dude.
Hope he succeeds and kicks Franklin's ass yearly.
Apparently you weren't thinking if you need me to explain it to you.
I think this is the right answer. It's way too late to go shopping and maintaining some consistency isn't a bad idea, right now. I'm sure they planned for some sort of off-ramp with Moore before making that call.
No...I'm thinking that you can't explain it because it would expose you. But carry on - you're not fooling anyone.
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