ADVERTISEMENT

The standard is the standard,’ it feels like a saying now

They're finally drafting some offensive linemen, but what have they done that would actually signify a rebuild is taking place? It's not like they've moved any vets. It's not like they have a young QB they're developing. I wouldn't call it a rebuild as much as I would call it finally having some common sense and realizing it starts up front. But they're still letting Watt, Heyward, Minkah, etc. expire - or do something close to it - on this roster.

As far as aging quarterbacks go, I don't know. The Packers let Favre and Rodgers go when both were evidently still very valued on the open market. Colts and Patriots let Manning and Brady walk when both were evidently still good enough to win another Super Bowl. Seattle let Russ go pretty early. I don't see too many teams trotting guys they drafted out there who can barely move.
Other than Brady, how many aging quarterbacks won SB's?
Those teams let those guys walk when their contracts expired. Just like the Steelers did with #8.

They weren't going to pay for guys on the downsides of their careers.

Fans like HOF'ers. There's pride in seeing guys like Watt and Heyward retire wearing only one helmet. Does it help you win? Maybe maybe not? Both of those guys are still contributing at a high level.

They can fill in around them through FA signings and drafting. The only thing they can't get in that fashion is a franchise QB.
 
Other than Brady, how many aging quarterbacks won SB's?
Those teams let those guys walk when their contracts expired. Just like the Steelers did with #8.

They weren't going to pay for guys on the downsides of their careers.

Fans like HOF'ers. There's pride in seeing guys like Watt and Heyward retire wearing only one helmet. Does it help you win? Maybe maybe not? Both of those guys are still contributing at a high level.

They can fill in around them through FA signings and drafting. The only thing they can't get in that fashion is a franchise QB.

The Steelers gave Ben multiple multiple extensions. They rode it out until the very end with him. Those other teams did not. They realized they weren't good enough to keep winning with the versions of those quarterbacks they had become. That's the whole point. Ben retired as a Steeler. Montana, Favre, Rodgers, Wilson, Manning, Brady, and many more did not/will not retire with the team they played for most of their careers.

It was questionable if Ben was shot after 2019. They gave him to more years anyway. It was pretty damn apparent by the end of 2020, however, that he was a shell of his former self. But, despite that and the litany of holes in the roster, they decided to draft a freaking running back and run it back one last time with the old noodle arm. Do most other franchises do that?

Would a left tackle not have been a little better use of first round draft capital? I mean, they needed one badly enough that they let the guy they got in the 4th round start as a rookie. But they couldn't take him in the first round because he wasn't the "immediate help" we needed to send Ben off in style. Of course, neither did Najee end up being that, but that's a different discussion.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Conemaugh
The Steelers gave Ben multiple multiple extensions. They rode it out until the very end with him. Those other teams did not. They realized they weren't good enough to keep winning with the versions of those quarterbacks they had become. That's the whole point. Ben retired as a Steeler. Montana, Favre, Rodgers, Wilson, Manning, Brady, and many more did not/will not retire with the team they played for most of their careers.

It was questionable if Ben was shot after 2019. They gave him to more years anyway. It was pretty damn apparent by the end of 2020, however, that he was a shell of his former self. But, despite the litany of holes in the roster, they decided to draft a freaking running back and run it back one last time. Do most other franchises do that?
I can't name one, but I agree the Steelers royally F'ed up following that strategy.
Set them back big time.
 
No, FK argues that it was #8 who was selfish in demanding players to help him instead of rebuilding for the future that didn't include him.
I wasn't paying attention to what he said. Just saw your remark.

QB's are a funny lot. They are certain the entire world revolves around them. They're not completely wrong but they know you need weapons and playmakers. Steelers haven't had any of those on offense for a while now. Pickens could be but he doesn't seem interested. As much as everyone claims the "franchise" has shorted Tomlin by not having a QB, I'm not sure if it matters who you put back there in Pittsburgh right now. Who was the last playmaker they drafted? Who is that OL anchored around? Then you look over at the defense and you start scratching your head and wondering how the hell that keeps ending up the way it does. How did any of it get this way?

I really don't think this franchise is one or two players away. It might be a player or two from the wheels falling off but there isn't one position or group that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pittbb80
Then he'll go broke. No skin off my teeth! One less 1%'er would be fine with me!!
That actually might be the problem. The Steelers ARE the Rooney’s business, whereas other owners make their money and have have their billions through their other businesses. Rooney needs butts in seats more and relies on them…even though he gets millions from tv money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FreeportPanther
I can't name one, but I agree the Steelers royally F'ed up following that strategy.
Set them back big time.
I thought the Steelers didn’t draft Marino because of the rumors at Pitt. But I heard someone say that they made the same mistake with Bradshaw as they did with Ben. They drafted Rudolph, which was a passive aggressive attempt at an heir. They didn’t really want to upset Ben. But it was said the Steelers passed on Marino because they didn’t want to upset Terry. And ironically Terry got hurt and essentially never played after that anyways.
 
I thought the Steelers didn’t draft Marino because of the rumors at Pitt. But I heard someone say that they made the same mistake with Bradshaw as they did with Ben. They drafted Rudolph, which was a passive aggressive attempt at an heir. They didn’t really want to upset Ben. But it was said the Steelers passed on Marino because they didn’t want to upset Terry. And ironically Terry got hurt and essentially never played after that anyways.
Never heard that one. Old man Rooney wanted him, but was overruled. Sen'or Sack was going to be a special player too, until he broke his neck!
 
Other than Brady, how many aging quarterbacks won SB's?
Those teams let those guys walk when their contracts expired. Just like the Steelers did with #8.

They weren't going to pay for guys on the downsides of their careers.

Fans like HOF'ers. There's pride in seeing guys like Watt and Heyward retire wearing only one helmet. Does it help you win? Maybe maybe not? Both of those guys are still contributing at a high level.

They can fill in around them through FA signings and drafting. The only thing they can't get in that fashion is a franchise QB.
But again here is another difference between dad and son (Dan and ArtII). Dan let Franco go. Webster. Woodson. Porter. All of those guys were Super Bowl winners and 3 HOFers and icons. ArtII seems incapable of doing anything that might upset someone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 303vND and Fk_Pitt
The Steelers gave Ben multiple multiple extensions. They rode it out until the very end with him. Those other teams did not. They realized they weren't good enough to keep winning with the versions of those quarterbacks they had become. That's the whole point. Ben retired as a Steeler. Montana, Favre, Rodgers, Wilson, Manning, Brady, and many more did not/will not retire with the team they played for most of their careers.

It was questionable if Ben was shot after 2019. They gave him to more years anyway. It was pretty damn apparent by the end of 2020, however, that he was a shell of his former self. But, despite that and the litany of holes in the roster, they decided to draft a freaking running back and run it back one last time with the old noodle arm. Do most other franchises do that?

Would a left tackle not have been a little better use of first round draft capital? I mean, they needed one badly enough that they let the guy they got in the 4th round start as a rookie. But they couldn't take him in the first round because he wasn't the "immediate help" we needed to send Ben off in style. Of course, neither did Najee end up being that, but that's a different discussion.
Sadly ,
dead arm Ben seemed the best option we’ve had at QB the last few seasons
 
Then tell Rooney! Despite all the grousing, the stadium is still full, Steeler fans take over opposing stadiums, there is a waiting list for season tickets, and the $$ is rolling in.

Much like the PIrates, most of this is out of everyone's hands.
I already made the decision not to spend a dime on the Steelers next year. But then again, I don't live in Pittsburgh and where I live there are tons of things to do other than sit in a cold, stale stadium looking at a stale team.
 
I already made the decision not to spend a dime on the Steelers next year. But then again, I don't live in Pittsburgh and where I live there are tons of things to do other than sit in a cold, stale stadium looking at a stale team.

Unfortunately, that is what the Steelers have become. A Flip Phone Franchise.

They're like sitting at home watching a grainy movie on VHS just because you refuse to let go of the past.
 
I already made the decision not to spend a dime on the Steelers next year. But then again, I don't live in Pittsburgh and where I live there are tons of things to do other than sit in a cold, stale stadium looking at a stale team.
Happy for you
 
Well he is right. But the first thing he could do is hire a legit DC and OL coach and expand his staff. His coaching hires have been awful.
He's right but what does that mean when there is nothing done to correct it? If he hires a legit DC - he just demoted himself..and that ain't happening.
 
Is Goff that far removed from that top tier of QB?
If those guys are #1, a QB like Goff is #1A?

Stafford and Noles won SB's lately, but it's mostly been Mahomes and Brady over the past 10 years.
People talk about Brady and Mahomes but the chiefs and Pats defenses were just as much responsible for many of the wins

If the Steeler defense was actually as good as what they pay maybe the Steelers would have more playoff wins.

Goff was considered to be a failure until they surrounded him with the right talent and OC
 
I wasn't paying attention to what he said. Just saw your remark.

QB's are a funny lot. They are certain the entire world revolves around them. They're not completely wrong but they know you need weapons and playmakers. Steelers haven't had any of those on offense for a while now. Pickens could be but he doesn't seem interested. As much as everyone claims the "franchise" has shorted Tomlin by not having a QB, I'm not sure if it matters who you put back there in Pittsburgh right now. Who was the last playmaker they drafted? Who is that OL anchored around? Then you look over at the defense and you start scratching your head and wondering how the hell that keeps ending up the way it does. How did any of it get this way?

I really don't think this franchise is one or two players away. It might be a player or two from the wheels falling off but there isn't one position or group that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling.
People way over value the impact of the Qb. Some think if the Steelers had a Mahomes or Allan that they’d be Super Bowl contenders. Would they win a wild card playoff game ? Sure. But as the team is constructed now they’d still be running for their lives more often than not and have little talent to pass to without a running game to keep teams honest. And it still wouldn’t address and over priced defense that woefully under preforms.

People point to the chiefs offense but their defense is really really good. The Steelers defense is far from Super Bowl caliber

This team has way more holes on the staff and on the roster than most stiller fans will admit
 
  • Like
Reactions: 303vND
People way over value the impact of the Qb. Some think if the Steelers had a Mahomes or Allan that they’d be Super Bowl contenders. Would they win a wild card playoff game ? Sure. But as the team is constructed now they’d still be running for their lives more often than not and have little talent to pass to without a running game to keep teams honest. And it still wouldn’t address and over priced defense that woefully under preforms.

People point to the chiefs offense but their defense is really really good. The Steelers defense is far from Super Bowl caliber

This team has way more holes on the staff and on the roster than most stiller fans will admit
I dunno. Brady and a Mahomes, Peyton in his time, they elevate teams. They do matter. Matter alot. Ain't a lot of HOFers on those NE teams, and not that many on KC.
 
People way over value the impact of the Qb. Some think if the Steelers had a Mahomes or Allan that they’d be Super Bowl contenders. Would they win a wild card playoff game ? Sure. But as the team is constructed now they’d still be running for their lives more often than not and have little talent to pass to without a running game to keep teams honest. And it still wouldn’t address and over priced defense that woefully under preforms.

People point to the chiefs offense but their defense is really really good. The Steelers defense is far from Super Bowl caliber

This team has way more holes on the staff and on the roster than most stiller fans will admit
Some pretty bad QB's have made it to the Super Bowl and some have even won.
 
But again here is another difference between dad and son (Dan and ArtII). Dan let Franco go. Webster. Woodson. Porter. All of those guys were Super Bowl winners and 3 HOFers and icons. ArtII seems incapable of doing anything that might upset someone.
Glad the drum I’ve been beating for a couple months is picking up speed .
 
I dunno. Brady and a Mahomes, Peyton in his time, they elevate teams. They do matter. Matter alot. Ain't a lot of HOFers on those NE teams, and not that many on KC.
Very true. There have also been many elite QB's who just couldn't get their team to the SB or they didn't get there more than once. Look how Elway's career went. Didn't make it til the end. Marino. Fouts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 303vND
. It’s not something you actually see.”

Harrison also dismissed the usual national media narrative that Tomlin has actually been overachieving the last eight years with underwhelming talent.

“If I’m the head coach of a football team and I’ve been the head coach of this football team for (18 years), and now the team’s not doing well — that all has to fall on my shoulders. Because I’ve been here long enough to be able to draft who I want and put the guys in the positions that I need,” Harrison said. “For me to be like, ‘I haven’t been (able to) get this or get that.’ Well, I’m the guy who’s supposed to be getting that. And I’ve been here long enough to get it.”

Looks like Harrison disagrees with the MM apologists on the board
How many years did Tomlin underachieve with a franchise qb, Bell, Brown and a cast of many good players?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 303vND
Funny, I've never heard Tomlin say anything like that.
Heard him address the playoff win drought, and personally take ownership of that.
Taking ownership would mean making changes. He runs back the same DC (himself), same sorry offensive philosophy of running the ball and playing not to lose. Far from taking ownership. Predictable defense with few blitzes. Predictable offense with runs on first and second down setting up third and long. What exactly changes with this guy?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pittisit4me
Very much the exception to the rule , though .
Brad johnson and tent dilfer

That’s about the list
Don’t even go back that far. Philly won without an elite QB. The ravens won with Flacco, but even that was a legendary playoff performance that season. I believe all of the others were elite QBs.

Building with defense can win you a playoff game or two. Think about all of that money and time the Steelers wasted on this mediocre defense that gets torched as soon as they run into an elite QB.

Total mismanagement of a team and organization.
 
Don’t even go back that far. Philly won without an elite QB. The ravens won with Flacco, but even that was a legendary playoff performance that season. I believe all of the others were elite QBs.

Building with defense can win you a playoff game or two. Think about all of that money and time the Steelers wasted on this mediocre defense that gets torched as soon as they run into an elite QB.

Total mismanagement of a team and organization.

I think you theoretically can win without an elite quarterback. Like, the 49ers should have won last year, and Tampa Bay Brady and Denver Manning weren't anything close to what they had been, etc. Then I think you have some guys like Hurts who probably look a little more elite than they actually are if you take them off a team that is absolutely loaded.

But yeah - elite quarterbacks definitely make the margin of error significantly greater. Like, you can either have a damn-near perfect team in place and find a good QB or can you have a good team in place and find an elite QB. The second is probably as likely or more likely than the first in the age of free agency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PittPharm2002
He's fine as long as they don't have the top gunslinger at QB they sorely need.
He can scheme a run centric attack just fine.
They'll fortify the RB position and seems like Fields gives them this dimension at QB.

Get a few solid possession WR's and teach the TE how to catch a ball, and they can make the playoffs.
Yes. He has the market cornered on those infamous toss sweeps to that speed back Harris. Oh wait.

My two cents, Smith is almost as bad as Canada, especially in the pass attack. Terrible passing trees. As far as the running attack, at least Matt had the jet sweep going for him.
 
Don’t even go back that far. Philly won without an elite QB. The ravens won with Flacco, but even that was a legendary playoff performance that season. I believe all of the others were elite QBs.

Building with defense can win you a playoff game or two. Think about all of that money and time the Steelers wasted on this mediocre defense that gets torched as soon as they run into an elite QB.

Total mismanagement of a team and organization.
Foles was a hot QB to end the season after Wentz got injured .
If wentz was healthy do they even make that run ?

Flacco was a franchise qb though - and proved still capable of having an elite arm even as an old man the last coupon years .

Ben really only played well against Denver his first Super Bowl - but we had a great running game a great defense , to be honest .
 
Never heard that one. Old man Rooney wanted him, but was overruled. Sen'or Sack was going to be a special player too, until he broke his neck!
Noll thought he had another Joe Greene with Rivera, sadly we never found out if he was right. It was only touched on briefly in the Elway to Marino 30for30, but I wonder how much Marino scared teams off by visiting with the USFL's LA Express, the teams that passed on him were all penny pinchers, I can see them not wanting to get into a bidding war.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT