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Joe Starkey for the win

ChiefJusticeMarshall

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Jun 14, 2020
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Over the past two weeks the Post Gazette and now DK on Sports ran just huge, detailed articles on how the Pirates are struggling, even in debt, despite their low payrolls. Of course the one sided DK article was his usual pathetic puff stuff believing everything fed to him and the PG had MLB experts refuting the Pirates claims. But despite that, both had angles on how the Pirates either struggle to make money or in fact, are losing money.

Joe Starkey, summoning up some common sense approach today then blasted Bob Nutting.

Joe Starkey: If the Pirates are financially stressed, why hasn’t Bob Nutting sold? And will he fight MLB?​


I can’t be the only one confused here.

Two local publications have posted fresh stories on the Pirates’ finances — and have come to violently different conclusions.

The Post-Gazette’s Mark Belko reported that the Pirates are profitable and could easily be spending more on players.

Dejan Kovacevic also reported on his site that the Pirates are losing money and have “taken on debt the past couple of years, including 2024.”

Both are fascinating deep dives.

Both are also stocked with enough financial minutiae to make your head spin like a Paul Skenes splinker.

The bottom line for me: If the finances are as challenging as these stories claim, why hasn’t Bob Nutting sold the team? What’s in this for him?

If he’s actually interested in winning, then why isn’t Nutting already fighting Major League Baseball before the current collective bargaining agreement expires on Dec. 1, 2026?

And why wasn’t he first in the protest line before the last CBA was ratified in 2022? To the contrary, he quietly signed off on it.

It seems awfully curious that Nutting would put himself through such financial hardship every year if there wasn’t something in it for him. And again, if the Pirates are in such a disadvantageous position that even reaching, say, a payroll of $100 million would leave their business model in jeopardy, as team president Travis Williams suggests in the Post-Gazette piece, why isn’t Nutting fighting MLB tooth and nail to improve the situation?

See, despite the differing conclusions of these two stories, there was a shared theme: Both, in part, painted the Pirates as a financially stressed organization. Kovacevic’s piece reported that as literally true, and the Pirates portrayed themselves as such in Belko’s piece, even if others decidedly did not.

 
DK used to be "Our team not Your team" with the Pirates and Nutting. Then a few years ago he changed his tune, he became the Gerry Dulac for the Pirates. Starkey has been getting better about calling out the Pirates and Nutting for the cons they are.
 
DK used to be "Our team not Your team" with the Pirates and Nutting. Then a few years ago he changed his tune, he became the Gerry Dulac for the Pirates. Starkey has been getting better about calling out the Pirates and Nutting for the cons they are.
That's where Starkey just nailed it. If you are struggling to make money AND compete, you bought the team for ~$100 million in 1996 and likely can sell it for $1.2 BILLION now, why not sell?? What civic duty is he having by not fielding a competitive team? So.........any poverty cry is BS.
 
That's where Starkey just nailed it. If you are struggling to make money AND compete, you bought the team for ~$100 million in 1996 and likely can sell it for $1.2 BILLION now, why not sell?? What civic duty is he having by not fielding a competitive team? So.........any poverty cry is BS.
How does Milwaukee do it?

Something stinks.

Nutting has always run the prates like any business does in preparation for a sale. Yet he’s not selling and taking on more water. Why?
 
Yet he’s not selling and taking on more water. Why?


The answer is simple. There is no way, and I mean literally none, that the Pirates aren't making tens of millions of dollars a year. He's not taking on more water. He's bringing in cash by the wheel barrel full.

If the Pirates really are in such a desperate financial state that they can't do any better, there would be a simple way to prove that. Not by having a mouthpiece come out and spout obvious BS. By just releasing their full financial statements for the previous year. That would end all the discussion right there. No one would ever be able to dispute them ever again when they cry poor. The proof would be there for all to see.

And of course no such thing will ever happen. Because audited financial statements would show no such thing. They would show the Pirates making money hand over fist. And that would permanently destroy Bob Nutting's "we're so poor we simply cannot spend one penny more" narrative.
 
How does Milwaukee do it?

Something stinks.

Nutting has always run the prates like any business does in preparation for a sale. Yet he’s not selling and taking on more water. Why?
What exactly has Milwaukee done? They have never won a championship and never will.
 
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What exactly has Milwaukee done? They have never won a championship and never will.
they won the central division 3 out of the last 4 years.. 4 out of the last 8 years..


true, they stb in playoffs but still pretty nice run IMO. with payroll, teams with similar issues as us, still have payrolls well over 120+, i believe the pirates payroll last year was high 70m..


That's an issue, when even smaller market teams payroll is 75% more than yours..
 
What exactly has Milwaukee done? They have never won a championship and never will.
What have they done? They have outspent the pirates by hundreds of millions over the last decade and are a similar sized market. Isn’t this thread about profitability and financial viability? Who is talking about wins and losses? You have got to be the worst poster on this site. No wonder why you rarely post.
 
What have they done? They have outspent the pirates by hundreds of millions over the last decade and are a similar sized market. Isn’t this thread about profitability and financial viability? Who is talking about wins and losses? You have got to be the worst poster on this site. No wonder why you rarely post.
well they are winning, if we are going to stick with winning, they are doing it. again, winning NL Central 3 out of the last 4 years is pretty successful..

Look at their wins every year, it's ridiculous:

93 last year.
2023 - 92.
2022 - 86
2021 - 95
(2020 was covid year).
2019 - 89
2018 - 96
2017 - 86
 
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well they are winning, if we are going to stick with winning, they are doing it. again, winning NL Central 3 out of the last 4 years is pretty successful..

Look at their wins every year, it's ridiculous:

93 last year.
2023 - 92.
2022 - 86
2021 - 95
(2020 was covid year).
2019 - 89
2018 - 96
2017 - 86
That’s cool and all but we were talking money, something Jtown knows little about obviously.


(Incoming laughing emoji from Jtown. When he has nothing smart to say, which is never, he will just laugh…which is a badge of honor for the rest of us).
 
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That’s cool and all but we were talking money, something Jtown knows little about obviously.


(Incoming laughing emoji from Jtown. When he has nothing smart to say, which is never, he will just laugh…which is a badge of honor for the rest of us).
 
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The people over on the DK site are fanboys to the nth degree. They will believe anything he says, in the hope that they will be the next choice for DK when he tries to put together another threesome with his wife.
Yeah I pretty much ignored him when he tried to bang his wife and staffer. Pretty unethical. I know he denied it but come on...where there's smoke there is fire.

Also how he treated Alan sanders was pretty low ball as well.
 
The people over on the DK site are fanboys to the nth degree. They will believe anything he says, in the hope that they will be the next choice for DK when he tries to put together another threesome with his wife.
is his wife good looking?
 
they won the central division 3 out of the last 4 years.. 4 out of the last 8 years..


true, they stb in playoffs but still pretty nice run IMO. with payroll, teams with similar issues as us, still have payrolls well over 120+, i believe the pirates payroll last year was high 70m..


That's an issue, when even smaller market teams payroll is 75% more than yours..
So they're like the Steelers have been lately?
 
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That’s cool and all but we were talking money, something Jtown knows little about obviously.


(Incoming laughing emoji from Jtown. When he has nothing smart to say, which is never, he will just laugh…which is a badge of honor for the rest of us).
Right. I laugh at clowns.
 
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Reactions: pittmeister
Here’s where I’ve ended up with Nutting. If he’s not going to spend very much, whatever. It’s his money. Who am I to tell him how to spend it? But, the money they do spend, the decisions are mind-boggling. He’s got a general manager who thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room every day of the week. He’ll pick up three players off of the trash heap for a total of $15 million rather than getting one player for $12 million. I think the reason is pretty clear; you can get these trash heap pick ups on one year contracts, whereas you get anybody worth their salt, they’re going to want multiple years. That just isn’t going to happen here. I used to go to 20–25 games a year. Screw that. I love watching the team, but I can’t stand the front office. I stream the games, so I’m not part of the ratings either. So I don’t feel like I’m contributing to the con. It’s really frustrating to be a fan.
 
The people over on the DK site are fanboys to the nth degree. They will believe anything he says, in the hope that they will be the next choice for DK when he tries to put together another threesome with his wife.
What? A threesome. Some people have all the fun 🤩
 
Over the past two weeks the Post Gazette and now DK on Sports ran just huge, detailed articles on how the Pirates are struggling, even in debt, despite their low payrolls. Of course the one sided DK article was his usual pathetic puff stuff believing everything fed to him and the PG had MLB experts refuting the Pirates claims. But despite that, both had angles on how the Pirates either struggle to make money or in fact, are losing money.

Joe Starkey, summoning up some common sense approach today then blasted Bob Nutting.

Joe Starkey: If the Pirates are financially stressed, why hasn’t Bob Nutting sold? And will he fight MLB?​


I can’t be the only one confused here.

Two local publications have posted fresh stories on the Pirates’ finances — and have come to violently different conclusions.

The Post-Gazette’s Mark Belko reported that the Pirates are profitable and could easily be spending more on players.

Dejan Kovacevic also reported on his site that the Pirates are losing money and have “taken on debt the past couple of years, including 2024.”

Both are fascinating deep dives.

Both are also stocked with enough financial minutiae to make your head spin like a Paul Skenes splinker.

The bottom line for me: If the finances are as challenging as these stories claim, why hasn’t Bob Nutting sold the team? What’s in this for him?

If he’s actually interested in winning, then why isn’t Nutting already fighting Major League Baseball before the current collective bargaining agreement expires on Dec. 1, 2026?

And why wasn’t he first in the protest line before the last CBA was ratified in 2022? To the contrary, he quietly signed off on it.

It seems awfully curious that Nutting would put himself through such financial hardship every year if there wasn’t something in it for him. And again, if the Pirates are in such a disadvantageous position that even reaching, say, a payroll of $100 million would leave their business model in jeopardy, as team president Travis Williams suggests in the Post-Gazette piece, why isn’t Nutting fighting MLB tooth and nail to improve the situation?

See, despite the differing conclusions of these two stories, there was a shared theme: Both, in part, painted the Pirates as a financially stressed organization. Kovacevic’s piece reported that as literally true, and the Pirates portrayed themselves as such in Belko’s piece, even if others decidedly did not.

Obviously I have no way of knowing, but my guess is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I imagine Nutting makes a profit in the way he runs the franchise but maybe not all that much as people think. Those promos and giveaways, Yinzerpalooza, and Skyblast firework shows cost something.
 
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Obviously I have no way of knowing, but my guess is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I imagine Nutting makes a profit in the way he runs the franchise but maybe not all that much as people think. Those promos and giveaways, Yinzerpalooza, and Skyblast firework shows cost something.
All of those promotions are sponsored. So the costs are picked up by the sponsors.
 
Obviously I have no way of knowing, but my guess is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I imagine Nutting makes a profit in the way he runs the franchise but maybe not all that much as people think. Those promos and giveaways, Yinzerpalooza, and Skyblast firework shows cost something.
Maybe he’s laying down debt? That impacts profitability. Although I don’t know what debt he would have. The tax payers provide the stadium. And the paying down of debt would increase the value of the club.
 
Yeah I pretty much ignored him when he tried to bang his wife and staffer. Pretty unethical. I know he denied it but come on...where there's smoke there is fire.

Also how he treated Alan sanders was pretty low ball as well.
What did he do to Saunders?
 
What did he do to Saunders?
I believe when Alan left he had a company laptop he returned. Something along the lines of he forgot to sign out of an email account and dejan went through his personal email or changed his password to lock him out. I forgot exactly but it was in that dead spin article that talked about him pimping out his wife.
 
Maybe he’s laying down debt? That impacts profitability. Although I don’t know what debt he would have. The tax payers provide the stadium. And the paying down of debt would increase the value of the club.


They did pitch in something like $40 million for the stadium, but after all this time if they still owe anything on that it's a choice rather than a necessity. They also used debt to buy the team in the first place, to the point that MLB rejected their (meaning McClatchy and Bob's dad) original plan to buy the team because they were not putting enough cash into the deal, they were relying too much on debt to finance the deal.

But two things on that, first of all most of the money that Ogden Nutting put into the deal in the first place was that he was the one loaning the money to the group (that he was a part of) that was buying the team. That was part of what MLB objected to. And it was also a great way that the Pirates as an organization could make payments to the Nuttings as individuals every year and still claim that no one was taking money out of the team. "The Nuttings aren't keeping $10 million (or whatever the number was) of profit every year, the team is merely paying back a loan." Yeah, they were paying back money that they essentially loaned to themselves. Good gig if you can get it.

And secondly, once again, after 30 years if they are still paying money off on those loans that's a choice, not a necessity. They are only still paying on those loans if that's what they think is the best business decision, not because it's a financial necessity.
 
DK knows all of this, but he's not disclosing it because he is essentially a Nutting mouthpiece. He blathers occasionally about Nutting in negative ways, but that's just creating cover for himself for the day when he inevitably whores himself out to them. He's done it so many times by now that it's comically predictable.
 
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