I don’t think there’s any argument that JC is a far more capable recruiter then KS . KS saw what he had and knew he couldn’t win with those players , where KS failed is in not being able to attract better players to replace the ones that left .
Kene Chukwuka to return
- Thread starter pittizit
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Pittsnoggle averaged 20 ppg as the best player on a good team as a senior. A lot of those points came in the post. I don’t think Chewie will ever come close to that.
No disagreement on the relative recruiting capabilities. However, I am also firmly convinced that KS over reacted and "threw the baby out with the bathwater" with an excessive blow up of the roster. Had he been more judicial and selective he would (unfortunately for Pitt fans in the longer term) still be here and we would be looking forward to at least another 3 years of 0.500 basketball before an eventual firing.
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Having Wilson , Kithcart , Manguilt and Nix on Pitts roster they would still have won exactly the same amount of ACC games !
IMHO, he shed some players either because he didn't see them as compatible with his preferred style of play or because he didn't want to wait for them to develop rather than solely due to the player's talent and potential. His long Vanderbilt history of teams underperforming relative to recruiting seems to suggest (at least to me) that he wasn't into player development.
I think in the years to come you’ll see he was correct in his player evaluation .
You may be right considering KS's in game coaching limitations.
However, I believe a quality coach who adopts his style to the player's on hand would have been able to use Wilson to some advantage and Nix as an effective spot sub inside. Such a coach could have (or would have) won at least two more OOC and 2-3 ACC games (at least 4-5 more total wins).
But this is a useless argument about something we can never know the answer about.
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Out of all those guys I do think only Nixs would’ve added anything in a limited capacity .
He would've added some comic relief.
2 ppg/2 rpg at South Alabama last year. He took 0 foul shots.
He had no business on a college basketball roster at any level of play.
He wouldn't/couldn't have helped, either. Pretty sure a rebound or two per game, if Nix was even capable of that level of production, wouldn't have done anything to prevent last year's travesty. He and Haughton might be the two biggest wastes of athletic scholarships the Pitt basketball program has ever seen, and they were a telltale sign of the depths Dixon's recruiting had sunk to.
The difference is that one guy is leaving the guys who can't play alone and bringing them back at their request, and the other guy pushed all those guys out and then brought in guys who were even worse. It was dumb then, and it would still be dumb to do it now, but fortunately for us our current coach doesn't appear to be that dumb.
Pittsnoogle was a career 40% three point shooter too. I'm probably a bit more willing to see Kene play a few minutes in the post than most here on the Lair. But on his very best day, Kene will never be anywhere close to the Trailer Monster I'm sorry to say. Best case scenario is for him to play a little defense and play a net neutral in limited minutes. Offensively, the biggest area he needs to improve is setting screens where he was simply terrible. But setting screens on the perimeter is absolutely the only plays he should attempt to make on the perimeter.
It’s funny how KS took heat for keeping Dixons incoming class and now people seem to realize that it’s not that easy to recruit when your starting in April and all the top players are already committed . JC can recruit circles around any previous Pitt coach and there’s no way he could recruit 11players in such a short time and all he has to do is look at how bad Pitt was last season to realize that . Next season he’ll encourage some players to transfer because he will have a full yr to find upgrades .
I’m in no way defending KS , but Pitt would’ve been a different team with Cam , a healthy Luther & Clark and Thompson . Still not a good team , but much better .
Well if the coach wanted to be a better team then chasing off your best player and chasing off the good friend of your best recruit seems to be a really stupid way to do it. But hey, at least you've stopped defending him.
Finally.
Cam was going to be the focal point of his team , I guess that must be what chasing off means !
I’d assume Thompson decision was a result of Cory’s experience with KS , but did he ever come out and say what his reasons were for de committing ?
Stallings essentially flushed away 2 recruiting classes And fielded s team with projects and misfits.
The results were surprising to nobody.
Sounds like you've written him off. No argument from me but since Capel let him return, I'd give him another look. Forget about the 3 pointers, his overall shooting and free throw percentage was abysmal last year. Maybe they were an outlier so I would give him a chance to shoot his way back to significant minutes. Should know with a fair amount of confidence before the end of November.
That's your opinion.....a guess. No one knows. Having a good coach would have prevented that from happening.
And that best recruit was at a position of possibly greatest need (point guard). Keeping Manigault as a development player and "rollng the dice" on whether he might become an at least decent PF as a redshirt junior or redshirt senior would have been worth it simply to have kept his high school point guard teammate, Thompson, committed so that decent point guard play would have been available in season #2.
But, this was, IMHO, only the second major mistake made. It seems obvious, at least to me, that finding a grad transfer or JUCO Point Guard immediately prior to season #1 to fill that primary weakness in the inherited roster was an absolute necessity. [Note: Capel clearly recognized the desperate PG need since his initial recruits are grad transfer PG/2G N'dir, 2G/PG McGowens, PG/2G Johnson and PG Aiken.]
A decent grad transfer or JUCO PG would have made a big difference to KS's season #1 and probably would have resulted, IMHO, in at least 3 more wins and an NIT/NCAA bubble team. Going 19-14 (or better with an NIT win or two) vs 16-17 and staying home would have made a huge difference going forward. Did KS try and fail to find a PG transfer? Did he even try?
In any event, not immediately landing a PG transfer prior to season #1 was big fail #1 and, IMO, set the stage for all the disasters that followed (i.e., Cam leaving, roster blow-up, weak recruiting and the subsequent 8-24; 0-19 ACC #2 season).
Well a lot of us have written him off. As far as "giving him a chance to shoot his way back to significant numbers" ...... it would have to start with ONLY layups and putbacks that he'd have to get off the offensive boards. If he did that successfully, the effort would be evident and then maybe he could actually see more game time minutes. I'd start slowly with his shot opportunities, and increase his range IF he started to hit the inside stuff.
Right now as it stands, he's going to see those minutes because of a lack of bodies on the inside. We only have Browne and Stevenson. We're all hoping for at least one more BIG for 2018, two would be even better.
To be clear, I would have given him his papers. And every aspect of his game needs to pick up.
But since he IS on the roster, I would not try to make him something that he is not and give him a another chance early to display the offensive attributes that got him a ride in the first place. This team is going nowhere next year. So I 'm looking to see how much, if any, he can contribute his last two years.
"Offensive attributes that got him a ride in the first place" ...... He averaged 3.0 points per game as a JUCO. He averaged 9.0 ppg as a h.s. sr. Where are the "offensive attributes" you're referencing? What got him the "ride" was his height and a degree of athleticism. Actually, Stallings was scraping the bottom of the barrel, and that more than anything got him the "ride." If he were brought in as the 11th or 13th schollie on a good team that would allow him little playing time, I could almost see it. He was brought in because Stallings had no choice.
Why in the hell at you arguing with me? I said many times I would have given him his walking papers. But he's staying courtesy of Capel so I would rather further evaluate him as an scoring option before I send him to the end of the bench.
If it were only height and athletics Stallings could have stopped over at Trees and found somebody. The kid was also brought in because he could shoot.
If Stallings was guilty of scraping the barrel, what does that make Capel? Did he also have no choice?
Haven't written him off at all. In fact, I think I was one of the few who was more supportive than others about his return to the Panthers.
I just don't think he should be shooting threes.
Here's some numbers ...
He started the season shooting 3-22. Then he had a pretty remarkable three game stretch when he hit 4-4. Then he closed the season shooting 2-21 in the final 13 games.
If you consider those three games the outlier, he shot 5-43 in the teams' other 29 games. That's 12%.
Even adding in the three game stretch he ended up at 19%.
I think he can add some value to the team -- just not by shooting threes.
You need to relax buddy. This a message board, and posters often post based on what they read posted by others. I was reacting to your comment about "Kene's offensive attributes." If you can't handle a reaction,
stop posting. By the way, I respect your opinions, doesn't mean I have to agree with em.
Those are completely different issues. KS took heat because he literally did nothing to recruit his first class, left a scholarship open, AND then pushed all those guys out the next year, while replacing them with absolute scrubs.
Capel has already recruited multiple players in his short time, including an impact grad transfer.
If Stallings would have added a player like N'Dir in his first class, we are probably capable (although Stallings would still be the coach) of being an NCAAT. Then, if he doesn't gut the 2016 class, we aren't taking guys like Kene and George in 2017. Stallings didn't keep Thompson, completely because of his doing. He doesn't get a pass for that.
Nix is no worse than Peace and arguably better. He was a servicable back up in the paint after Luther's FIRST stress fracture.
He was never a fit for Stalling's system, but neither is Ilegomah. Nix can provide a physical presence and 5 fouls in the paint. Many schools, even in the ACC, have a player like him for exactly the same role.
No, he doesn't have much choice because Stallings left him an absolute mess of non-talent and empty scholarships. He could push out guys like Kene, Peace, or George, but it is unlikely he can get enough decent players to fill the spots. Then he would likely have to push them out next year or the year after, anyway, so he might as well give the guys he inherited another year and cut them loose when he can upgrade those spots significantly.
No reason to “kick them out” if you will, when you won’t be filling the scholarships with anything remotely better. Better to have the guys for practice and who knows, maybe the light turns on for one of them.
Total nonsense. If these three are a hot mess of non talent, any decent coach could and more importantly should upgrade. Capel is paid to win games, and next year is no exception. I would have had no problem if Capel had cut them all loose and brought in someone else.
It is apparent that you have one set of standards for Stallings and another for Capel. I've read enough of your bird droppings so it comes as no surprise. You are so transparent.
Harve--I respectfully disagree. This guy seems to be a sentimental favorite on this board, maybe because he's a nice kid, maybe it's the story of his remarkable physical transformation--but his career speaks for itself. He transferred to a mid-major and still didn't produce at all. He was not a player that should be on any D1 roster, probably not even on any D2 roster. Even at his peak physically, he couldn't run the floor and he bogged things down. He had no game to speak of. Anybody can give fouls, but you have to be able to play to be on a P6 roster.
His scholarship to Pitt when we were unable to land any other big man with a pulse was an alarming sign of the declining state of the program at the time. That 2015 class-Nix, Wilson and Milligan--was as low is it gets.
Yeah, it is pretty clear you don't understand the situation, at all. There is no reason to add more dead weight who will not help day one and who will likely be passed up, just like Kene, Samson, and Peace. All that would do is put us in the same loop Stallings started when he pushed players out to bring in worse players and kick the can down the line.
Capel will upgrade those spots, but no one would expect he should upgrade every spot in 2 months, rather than build for better players in the future. There is no doubt we will eventually replace Kene, Samson, and Peace and that at least some combination will not finish their careers at Pitt. It just doesn't make sense to cut them loose now with scholarships still in hand and limited talent available in this class.
Your agenda is clear.
I'm not saying he was ever going to be a star. But, if you watched the games while Luther was out with his first stress fracture, Nix demonstrated he WAS effective in short, 3 to 5 minute spells against ACC competition.
There are horses for courses and Nix would have helped a Dixon style team more, screening and taking up space inside.
Except for a few outings by Brown later in the season, there were almost no decent even 3 to 5 minute stretches given by Pitt bigs after Luther went down this past season.
He was a big body to fill a role. It's a role Stallings' system didn't look to fill. And, to be fair, basketball is changing away from big and immobile to emphasize speed and mobility. Nevertheless, he could have helped the team this past season more than Peace or probably Kene. Peace couldn't even take up space without fouling at a 12 per 40 minutes rate, couldn't catch the ball on rebounds OR passes.
Pitt didn't run and Peace rarely touched the ball on the offensive end. I believe he was an incredible reach, taken from Monteverde primarily as a favor to keep Sutton connected there. Maybe he could eventually develop into a rim protector but I don't see that. Head to head, Nix would destroy him.
Nix was being pursued by Frank Martin at USC and was MVP of perhaps the strongest Juco conference. I get that you don't like his game and that it is limited and doesn't match what Stallings wanted to do. But, even Stallings saw that Nix had something to contribute and tried to get him to stay at Pitt after whiffing on his other big man targets.
At this point, it doesn't matter.
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