Legislation on PIAA

[Franb]

This topic was raised a few weeks ago, and here is what appears to me to be a thorough examination of the proposed changes to eligibility and playoffs, from the P-G:

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports...cruiting-Aaron-Bernstine/stories/201906260113

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Is Mike White an idiot? He doesn't know how this will work? Well, New Jersey has been doing it for years. If the WPIAL wants to include private schools in their tournaments, that's up to them but the top-finishing privates will go to their own PIAA Tournament and the top finishers from public will go to their own.

I'd imagine there will be 4 Public school classifications and 2 private school ones. And since there's far more smaller private schools than public ones. I'd guess all the current 1A and 2A private schools will be 1 class while the 3A-6A schools will make up the other class. Is this unfair to a current 3A private school? Sure, but they could just recruit better.

As for the transfer thing, if you move to a district, even if that move is questionable, you have to be eligible. If the district you left wants to hire a PI and stake out where you are living and find you arent living there, fine but unless there's good proof you arent living in the district, you have to be eligible. If an affluent family from USC's son gets beaten out for QB so he transfers to Bethel Park to be QB1, as long as they rent an apartment there, they should be eligible.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

PA should adopt school districts by county.

The tax savings alone would be tremendous.

Provided, of course, the labor unions in Pa would have to go along with it, and that's not going to happen.

 

[pittdan77]

PA should adopt school districts by county.

The tax savings alone would be tremendous.

Provided, of course, the labor unions in Pa would have to go along with it, and that's not going to happen.

It would have more to do with locals giving up tax authority. I won't start on the politics of that but I'd guess the labor unions would eventually benefit from having larger bargaining units.

 

[pittdan77]

Is Mike White an idiot?

Perhaps, but someone dared to question the P-G and that will not be tolerated.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Perhaps, but someone dared to question the P-G and that will not be tolerated.

He acts like it's this impossible thing to have publics and privates play together in districts and then have separate state tournaments. Not that long ago, 1A and 2A schools played in the same conferences in basketball but played in different WPIAL tournaments. Somehow, they figured out how to make that work.

 

[Franb]

Is Mike White an idiot? He doesn't know how this will work? Well, New Jersey has been doing it for years. If the WPIAL wants to include private schools in their tournaments, that's up to them but the top-finishing privates will go to their own PIAA Tournament and the top finishers from public will go to their own.

I'd imagine there will be 4 Public school classifications and 2 private school ones. And since there's far more smaller private schools than public ones. I'd guess all the current 1A and 2A private schools will be 1 class while the 3A-6A schools will make up the other class. Is this unfair to a current 3A private school? Sure, but they could just recruit better.

As for the transfer thing, if you move to a district, even if that move is questionable, you have to be eligible. If the district you left wants to hire a PI and stake out where you are living and find you arent living there, fine but unless there's good proof you arent living in the district, you have to be eligible. If an affluent family from USC's son gets beaten out for QB so he transfers to Bethel Park to be QB1, as long as they rent an apartment there, they should be eligible.

You can imagine however many classifications that you want to, but his point is that the numbers do not make sense. There are so few private schools compared to public schools that mandating an equal number of championships is ridiculous. It seems clear that the guy who proposed this scheme is the idiot in the room. He should have bothered to discuss this with PIAA officials and try to come up with something that was workable - his inability to answer basic questions is not a good sign.

 

[Franb]

Perhaps, but someone dared to question the P-G and that will not be tolerated.

You have it backwards. Mike White questioned him about the transfers, pointed out the fallacies in his responses, and he attacked the reporter. It is a reporter's job to ask questions, particularly of a public official.

 

[pittdan77]

You have it backwards. Mike White questioned him about the transfers, pointed out the fallacies in his responses, and he attacked the reporter. It is a reporter's job to ask questions, particularly of a public official.

He wrote an opinion piece. That's not reporting. That's fine. But he literally says he doesn't like the legislation and makes it a point to mention that the politician demeans the media because of the ongoing obsession with transfers of HS athletes (most likely referring to White because it's an ongoing theme in his PG articles). Don't get me wrong, this Bernstine guy sounds like he's just spouting garbage but there's no doubt White approached this from one side of the argument. There was never a counter argument presented. The snarky stuff seems to be an ongoing theme when anyone questions a PG writer.

 

[Franb]

He wrote an opinion piece. That's not reporting. That's fine. But he literally says he doesn't like the legislation and makes it a point to mention that the politician demeans the media because of the ongoing obsession with transfers of HS athletes (most likely referring to White because it's an ongoing theme in his PG articles). Don't get me wrong, this Bernstine guy sounds like he's just spouting garbage but there's no doubt White approached this from one side of the argument. There was never a counter argument presented. The snarky stuff seems to be an ongoing theme when anyone questions a PG writer.

He is a reporter who wrote an opinion piece, and in the course of researching the issue, he asked the man who wrote the legislation to discuss it. That guy then blows up at him when he challenges his responses. That is on Mr. Bernstine. And the fact that Mike White reports the interaction is what reporters do. If Mr. Bernstine didn't act like a jerk, he would not have been portrayed as one.

 

[gbgpanther]

He is a reporter who wrote an opinion piece, and in the course of researching the issue, he asked the man who wrote the legislation to discuss it. That guy then blows up at him when he challenges his responses. That is on Mr. Bernstine. And the fact that Mike White reports the interaction is what reporters do. If Mr. Bernstine didn't act like a jerk, he would not have been portrayed as one.

This legislation is all about the catholic schools because if they do not have winning programs they will stop existing. The charter schools are kicking there tail in Philadelphia. Transfer to a charter school which is all about sports is free . Catholic schools are mad at that. I say close your doors

 

[pittdan77]

He is a reporter who wrote an opinion piece, and in the course of researching the issue, he asked the man who wrote the legislation to discuss it. That guy then blows up at him when he challenges his responses. That is on Mr. Bernstine. And the fact that Mike White reports the interaction is what reporters do. If Mr. Bernstine didn't act like a jerk, he would not have been portrayed as one.

Right. This Bernstine guy doesn't like the way White reports transfers and said so. White blows it up.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You can imagine however many classifications that you want to, but his point is that the numbers do not make sense. There are so few private schools compared to public schools that mandating an equal number of championships is ridiculous. It seems clear that the guy who proposed this scheme is the idiot in the room. He should have bothered to discuss this with PIAA officials and try to come up with something that was workable - his inability to answer basic questions is not a good sign.

4 Public classifications
2 Private classifications

Why wouldn't that work?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The numbers on the PIAA web site don't add up correctly, so this might not be exact, but it says that there are 583 high schools in the PIAA and that of that number 40 are charters and 144 are private. So if you lump the charters and privates together you'd get 184 C&Ps and 399 publics. So two C&Ps would get you 92 in each class and four publics would get you 100 in each class.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

PA should adopt school districts by county.

The tax savings alone would be tremendous.

Provided, of course, the labor unions in Pa would have to go along with it, and that's not going to happen.

Yeah, that’s definitely never going to happen.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

It would have more to do with locals giving up tax authority. I won't start on the politics of that but I'd guess the labor unions would eventually benefit from having larger bargaining units.

Yeah unions typically support mergers. Larger municipalities and school districts typically have lower overhead, higher wages, and higher union density/larger bargaining units.

I think the simple reason it won't happen here is it could cause large scale school integration along lines of race and income. Which I am fine with but a lot of parents are not.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I definitely have a few views on this issue but I will start with Congressman Bernstein.

This congressman is a complete moron. He very clearly has not done his homework and he looks silly when pressed for specifics.

Come on, man, get your act together. You had to know when you introduced this idea that it was going to be controversial and that it would get you plenty of statewide media attention. That’s probably what motivated you to introduce this bill in the first place. So how could you possibly be caught with your pants down on basic questions like membership disparities and how would it work exactly?

That simply cannot happen. How can you possibly adequately advocate for your bill if you don’t even understand it yourself?

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

As for the current system, as idiotic as Congressman Bernstein has been in the development of his solution, he’s not entirely wrong.

It is neither the WPIAL’s or the PIAA’s role to dictate where student-athletes can and cannot attend school or compete.

I really think it’s ludicrous for any governing body to be determining whether or not a student-athlete transferred for “athletic intent.”

So what if they did? That’s really nobody’s business but the student-athletes and their families and of course the school in which they are enrolling.

What if somebody transfers schools for artistic reasons? Is there anyone stepping in their way? No! So why are we discriminating against student-athletes.

As an example, let’s say that I live in the Upper St. Clair School District and I have a daughter that I believe to be exceptionally talented performer. However, for whatever reason, I don’t think she’s getting a fair shake from the musical director there. Maybe it’s a personality conflict or a personal relationship or whatever. Otherwise, let’s say that I just think the musical director is not very good but the school district refuses to fire him or her.

If I am willing to rent an apartment in the neighboring Peters Township School District, which for the purposes of this discussion I believe has a far superior drama department, who is standing in our way?

Who is telling us that we can’t do this because we are doing it only for an extra curricular reason?

Nobody.

So why are we doing that with student-athletes? It’s completely ridiculous that the WPIAL and/or the PIAA (which is much more lenient, BTW) is ever weighing in on any of these issues. It’s honestly none of their business provided these families are willing to move or establish residency in a new school district or in the case of private schools, if they (or a benefactor) are paying the tuition to join those schools.

I don’t think it’s their job or even their right to tell anyone why the can or cannot attend or compete for any school or participate in any extracurricular activity.

Don’t get me wrong, I hate recruiting and I think it’s ridiculous that we have to even have this discussion. However, I think the individual student’s rights far supersede the interests of the institutions they’re representing or the teams for which they compete.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The numbers on the PIAA web site don't add up correctly, so this might not be exact, but it says that there are 583 high schools in the PIAA and that of that number 40 are charters and 144 are private. So if you lump the charters and privates together you'd get 184 C&Ps and 399 publics. So two C&Ps would get you 92 in each class and four publics would get you 100 in each class.

I don't believe the plan is for Charters to play with the privates even though I think they should as they are non-boundary schools. But even if they didnt, you'd have 110 in 4 Public classifications and 72 in 2 Private Classifications. That can still work.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

That is not to say that I favor a free-for-all solution because nothing could be further from the truth. I just think that the competitive balance considerations should be dealt with upfront rather than on the back end.

This seems like a no-brainer to me and would be easily solved with a few provisions.

1.) People are looking at at this all wrong when they discuss it as public schools versus private schools. What does that distinction have to do with anything in the current climate?

That may have been a clean, easy dividing line in 1985, but charter schools and cyber charter schools and AAU programs masquerading as charter schools, etc. have rendered that distinction obsolete.

The dividing line should be — and indeed must be — schools which are defined by borders (i.e. public schools) versus the schools whose students can come from anywhere without any residency considerations.

I think, logically speaking, there should probably be six divisions – four for the border schools and two (large and small) for the borderless schools. However, you may be able to consolidate to five divisions by eliminating one of the public school classifications.

Also, I would have two simple rules that I would strictly enforce:

1.) A student-athlete may transfer to any school he or she wants for any reason he or she wants provided they meet residency and/or tuition requirements.

However, they must be enrolled in their new school prior to that team’s first game. Once the season starts, they may not join that team.

There may be some exceptions and that is what the WPIAL/PIAA should be deciding. There may be some truly extenuating circumstances. Otherwise, that should be a really hard and fast rule and it should be easily enforceable.

2.) A student-athlete may not transfer more than once per school year. Again, I would be doing that for the student-athlete’s protection as there’s no way any student benefits by constantly changing schools in a given year depending on the season.

Again though, there could be reasons why multiple transfers in a given year may be prudent and/or necessary. However, that’s much more enforceable and easily dealt with than the current system.

By doing it this way you give borderless teams the opportunity to recruit to their heart’s content because they’re facing other teams who are also recruiting out the wazoo. That’s a much better system for everyone. Most importantly, that’s good for the kids and their families because they don’t have to hide anything.

 

[superstein61a]

The dividing line should be — and indeed must be — schools which are defined by borders (i.e. public schools) versus the schools whose students can come from anywhere without any residency considerations.
. . .
By doing it this way you give borderless teams the opportunity to recruit to their heart’s content because they’re facing other teams who are also recruiting out the wazoo. That’s a much better system for everyone.

That is bullshit and a silly take. Here is why - and I will use local school names as just an example:

Shadyside Academy - tuition is over $30K a year
Central Catholic - tuition is $12,650 a year
Lincoln Park - tuition is $0 a year

There are huge differences there. Lincoln Park can (and does) recruit to it's heart's content because there is no cost to them of doing so - actually they get paid by the public school district for every student that attends.

Shadyside on the other hand can't recruit and eat $30K tuitions for more than maybe 1 or 2 kids

There is a reason why Charter Schools have to remain in the public grouping - because they are public and funded with public dollars - and including them with privates and catholic schools gives the charters a huge advantage.

All that said, the whole issue is BS. Nothing needs to change. It is just some public schools whining wanting their participation trophy.

There are a small handful of schools now across the state, a couple percent at most, that abuse the system. The recent PIAA rules will help resolve that.
Simply enforce the rules equally and fairly across the board and the problem is solved

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Shadyside on the other hand can't recruit and eat $30K tuitions for more than maybe 1 or 2 kids

And we have a winner for the funniest thing ever posted on this board!

 

[Franb]

4 Public classifications
2 Private classifications

Why wouldn't that work?

The problem, as Mike White pointed out, is that this legislation mandates equal numbers of championships for both public and private schools. That is what he said will not work, because of the disparity in numbers of schools. If you have 4 public classifications, and thus 4 championships, you would then also need 4 private classifications and 4 championships. That is what this legislation calls for. And that is what he is commenting on.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

That is bullshit and a silly take. Here is why - and I will use local school names as just an example:

Shadyside Academy - tuition is over $30K a year
Central Catholic - tuition is $12,650 a year
Lincoln Park - tuition is $0 a year

There are huge differences there. Lincoln Park can (and does) recruit to it's heart's content because there is no cost to them of doing so - actually they get paid by the public school district for every student that attends.

Shadyside on the other hand can't recruit and eat $30K tuitions for more than maybe 1 or 2 kids

There is a reason why Charter Schools have to remain in the public grouping - because they are public and funded with public dollars - and including them with privates and catholic schools gives the charters a huge advantage.

All that said, the whole issue is BS. Nothing needs to change. It is just some public schools whining wanting their participation trophy.

There are a small handful of schools now across the state, a couple percent at most, that abuse the system. The recent PIAA rules will help resolve that.
Simply enforce the rules equally and fairly across the board and the problem is solved

So, you are a-okay with Lincoln Park having a huge advantage over the traditional public schools like South Park or Fort Cherry, just not the private schools like poor little Shadyside Academy?

If you can recruit any students for any reason without regard to residency, you should not be competing against schools who cannot. You’re inherently playing by two different sets of rules.

I think the results speak for themselves. I’m sure if you go back and look at the WPIAL and PIAA championship match ups over the last 10 years, on a percentage basis, you are going to see far more private and charter schools in those games than you will traditional public schools.

How do you account for that? Is it just a coincidence? No, it’s because they’re competing under two entirely different sets of rules that greatly benefits some schools at the direct expense of others.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The problem, as Mike White pointed out, is that this legislation mandates equal numbers of championships for both public and private schools. That is what he said will not work, because of the disparity in numbers of schools. If you have 4 public classifications, and thus 4 championships, you would then also need 4 private classifications and 4 championships. That is what this legislation calls for. And that is what he is commenting on.

So what if there was. I wouldn't agree with it but 4 classes of private schools of 45 or so schools per class is better than having those schools compete for state championships against schools which cannot go beyond its borders. I really feel for the 1A and 2A schools. That's where you see the bulk of private school domination. These small neighborhood HS's go up against an SSA or Kennedy Catholic (before they started playing up.

 

[superstein61a]

So, you are a-okay with Lincoln Park having a huge advantage over the traditional public schools like South Park or Fort Cherry, just not the private schools like poor little Shadyside Academy?

If you can recruit any students for any reason without regard to residency, you should not be competing against schools who cannot. You’re inherently playing by two different sets of rules.

I think the results speak for themselves. I’m sure if you go back and look at the WPIAL and PIAA championship match ups over the last 10 years, on a percentage basis, you are going to see far more private and charter schools in those games than you will traditional public schools.

How do you account for that? Is it just a coincidence? No, it’s because they’re competing under two entirely different sets of rules that greatly benefits some schools at the direct expense of others.

Right - like no public school has ever recruited. Come on now. If a school wants to be dirty, public, private, catholic or charter, they will be dirty.

As to the numbers, this only became an issue when some Philly schools started competing in the PIAA state playoffs. It was a relatively minor issue til then. In Western PA, you basically have 2 schools who have abused the system - Lincoln Park and Kennedy Catholic. In Philly, the problem is the public school system there sucks. Utterly sucks. That is why Philly has a huge number of private, catholic, charter schools. For comparison sake:

Philly has over 70 private schools, Pittsburgh has 4
Philly has around 10 Catholic high schools, Pittsburgh has 6 I can recall
Philly has over 40 charter high schools, Pittsburgh has 2 that have any sports program

The WPIAL tries to follow the rules as written. The related Philly Association has ignored the rules in the past. And the PIAA has been too lenient on appeals. So once the Philly schools were in the state playoffs, that started to skew things because it was the wild west there in terms of recruiting

As I said - the whole premise is bullshit if the existing rules would simply be enforced. Nothing needs to change. The recent PIAA rule changes will help resolve the issue

Simply enforce the rules equally and fairly across the board and the problem is solved

 

[superstein61a]

. I really feel for the 1A and 2A schools. That's where you see the bulk of private school domination. These small neighborhood HS's go up against an SSA or Kennedy Catholic (before they started playing up.

The reason the small private or Catholic schools compete better (I will exclude Kennedy Catholic from this statement because they are one of the known cheaters) is:

1. Private and Catholic schools have better coaching
2. Private and Catholic schools have more committed student athletes, who work harder and are more coachable.

It is not because they have better athletes or recruit. The fact is if you are paying $30K a year to go to a private school which you only can get admitted to if you meet the academic standards, you have a different team mentality and work ethic than the typical public school team

I have seen it play out on the court and field numerous times.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Right - like no public school has ever recruited. Come on now. If a school wants to be dirty, public, private, catholic or charter, they will be dirty.

As to the numbers, this only became an issue when some Philly schools started competing in the PIAA state playoffs. It was a relatively minor issue til then. In Western PA, you basically have 2 schools who have abused the system - Lincoln Park and Kennedy Catholic. In Philly, the problem is the public school system there sucks. Utterly sucks. That is why Philly has a huge number of private, catholic, charter schools. For comparison sake:

Philly has over 70 private schools, Pittsburgh has 4
Philly has around 10 Catholic high schools, Pittsburgh has 6 I can recall
Philly has over 40 charter high schools, Pittsburgh has 2 that have any sports program

The WPIAL tries to follow the rules as written. The related Philly Association has ignored the rules in the past. And the PIAA has been too lenient on appeals. So once the Philly schools were in the state playoffs, that started to skew things because it was the wild west there in terms of recruiting

As I said - the whole premise is bullshit if the existing rules would simply be enforced. Nothing needs to change. The recent PIAA rule changes will help resolve the issue

Simply enforce the rules equally and fairly across the board and the problem is solved

Yes, of course some public (and private) schools have recruited in the past. However, that has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

When schools recruit they are cheating under the current rules.

Period.

As long as you have competition in any facet of life, you will have people trying to cheat. That’s just one of the darker elements of human nature — ego.

What I’m not for is institutionalized advantages – which is what you seem to be advocating.

If you are saying that it is okay for Lincoln Park to recruit a limitless number of student-athletes when competing against say, Highlands, which is permitted to recruit zero athletes; how can you then turn around and say it’s not okay for Lincoln Park to recruit against Shadyside Academy, which theoretically at least, could also recruit a limitless number of student-athletes?

Respectfully, that makes no sense whatsoever.

I’m just not for institutionalizing advantages for schools that already have massive advantages in literally every single other aspect of the educational process.

As I said in an earlier post, I am not for the WPIAL or PIAA ever deciding where a student can and cannot attend school/compete. I just don’t think that is their right.

However, I also think that all schools should be competing against fellow schools who are playing by the same set of rules and that is clearly not the case right now.

 

[Franb]

So what if there was. I wouldn't agree with it but 4 classes of private schools of 45 or so schools per class is better than having those schools compete for state championships against schools which cannot go beyond its borders. I really feel for the 1A and 2A schools. That's where you see the bulk of private school domination. These small neighborhood HS's go up against an SSA or Kennedy Catholic (before they started playing up.

The point, which you seem to be missing entirely, is that mandating an equal number of classifications makes no sense. The problem is not having different championships for public and private schools, it is having the same number of champions for both when the disparity of numbers is so great.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

The reason the small private or Catholic schools compete better (I will exclude Kennedy Catholic from this statement because they are one of the known cheaters) is:

1. Private and Catholic schools have better coaching
2. Private and Catholic schools have more committed student athletes, who work harder and are more coachable.

It is not because they have better athletes or recruit. The fact is if you are paying $30K a year to go to a private school which you only can get admitted to if you meet the academic standards, you have a different team mentality and work ethic than the typical public school team

I have seen it play out on the court and field numerous times.

That is absurd.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It was a relatively minor issue til then. In Western PA, you basically have 2 schools who have abused the system - Lincoln Park and Kennedy Catholic.

Once again with the humorous post.

 

[superstein61a]

Yes, of course some public (and private) schools have recruited in the past. However, that has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

When schools recruit they are cheating under the current rules.

Period.

As long as you have competition in any facet of life, you will have people trying to cheat. That’s just one of the darker elements of human nature — ego.

What I’m not for is institutionalized advantages – which is what you seem to be advocating.

If you are saying that it is okay for Lincoln Park to recruit a limitless number of student-athletes when competing against say, Highlands, which is permitted to recruit zero athletes; how can you then turn around and say it’s not okay for Lincoln Park to recruit against Shadyside Academy, which theoretically at least, could also recruit a limitless number of student-athletes?

Respectfully, that makes no sense whatsoever.

I’m just not for institutionalizing advantages for schools that already have massive advantages in literally every single other aspect of the educational process.

As I said in an earlier post, I am not for the WPIAL or PIAA ever deciding where a student can and cannot attend school/compete. I just don’t think that is their right.

However, I also think that all schools should be competing against fellow schools who are playing by the same set of rules and that is clearly not the case right now.

There are no institutionalized advantages. Every school has its own challenges and barriers to entry. That is a lazy argument.

And your solution would exacerbate cheating and the field would become far less level. If you don't want the WPIAL or PIAA ever enforcing rules about where a student can and cannot compete, all you do is open the door to more and more cheating. You will have more and more dirty public schools and you will have those public schools who can't compete because they don't cheat. Your solution will destroy the smaller public schools because if you are a top athlete, the big public schools will recruit them

And the WPIAL or PIAA NEVER has said a student cannot attend a school. They may be ruled ineligible for playing a certain sport for a year, but they can attend the school. And isn't going to school primarily about education. So no one is taking away their right to get the education they want. If you are truly about academics, then get your education, sit out the year and then play. Or under the new eligibility rules, if there was no athletic intent involved, you do not even have to sit out a year - but instead just sit out the playoffs

Simply enforce the existing rules (which include the changes made last summer and which really now are just in all practicality going into effect ) equally and fairly across the board and the problem is solved

 

[superstein61a]

That is absurd.

Really? You seem to not understand a lot about the facts here.
I have seen it play out numerous times.

I have seen schools like Jeannette and Clairton - who have better athletes get beaten time and time again in hoops by a bunch of mainly white athletes from private and Catholic schools who couldn't run as fast, jump as high, etc . The difference was those kids from private / catholic schools were more coachable, worked harder and had better coaching than the kids from Jeannette and Clairton who in essence were playing street ball on the court

 

[superstein61a]

Once again with the humorous post.

You are a clown. You can't refute facts or debate an argument so you make silly comments.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The reason the small private or Catholic schools compete better (I will exclude Kennedy Catholic from this statement because they are one of the known cheaters) is:

1. Private and Catholic schools have better coaching
2. Private and Catholic schools have more committed student athletes, who work harder and are more coachable.

It is not because they have better athletes or recruit. The fact is if you are paying $30K a year to go to a private school which you only can get admitted to if you meet the academic standards, you have a different team mentality and work ethic than the typical public school team

I have seen it play out on the court and field numerous times.

There are 0 schools in Western PA which have real admission standards. If you want to pay to go to HS, any HS will take you. They may say they have standards but all of them will take your money......unless of your kid had major discipline problems or something like that. There have even been cases of kids being kicked out of a public school that went and played for a private school. In fact one kid I can remember that did this ended up murdering someone shortly after HS so dont tell me about standards.

Also your point of privates having better coaching is laughable. Maybe in some cases but not across the board.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Really? You seem to not understand a lot about the facts here.
I have seen it play out numerous times.

I have seen schools like Jeannette and Clairton - who have better athletes get beaten time and time again in hoops by a bunch of mainly white athletes from private and Catholic schools who couldn't run as fast, jump as high, etc . The difference was those kids from private / catholic schools were more coachable, worked harder and had better coaching than the kids from Jeannette and Clairton who in essence were playing street ball on the court

You’re struggling.

We have all seen lesser athletic teams beat more athletic teams. That phenomenon is not limited to private schools versus “the blacks.” We also see that at all levels of sports, not just in high school competition.

Sometimes it’s because the kids are better coached and/or more dedicated. Sometimes it’s because they have a really good day while the other team - though perhaps better coached and more dedicated - just has a really bad day. Sometimes it’s a result of biased and/or incompetent officiating. Upsets can happen for a lot of reasons.

We have also all seen many instances where kids whose families don’t have two nickels to rub together can suddenly and magically afford to attend an expensive private school.

Coincidentally, they are almost always kids who also happen to be superb athletes. I have a few relatives to whom that has applied.

We have also all seen instances where a public school has a really promising young player one year and the next year he is starting for the local private school. We’ve seen a lot over the years where I grew up.

All of this is to say that high school athletics would be better if the WPIAL and PIAA stayed out of the eligibility business but created divisions whereby everyone competing therein was playing by the exact same set of rules and standards. Why is that so difficult for you to accept?

Going back to your original post, I don’t understand why you are fine with Lincoln Park being able to have a recruiting advantage against say Central Valley but not against Shadyside Academy? That’s what I don’t accept because it’s an entitled BS point of view.

Why are you against fair, even competition? That’s what I can’t understand.

 

[KTP]

There are no institutionalized advantages. Every school has its own challenges and barriers to entry. That is a lazy argument.

And your solution would exacerbate cheating and the field would become far less level. If you don't want the WPIAL or PIAA ever enforcing rules about where a student can and cannot compete, all you do is open the door to more and more cheating. You will have more and more dirty public schools and you will have those public schools who can't compete because they don't cheat. Your solution will destroy the smaller public schools because if you are a top athlete, the big public schools will recruit them

And the WPIAL or PIAA NEVER has said a student cannot attend a school. They may be ruled ineligible for playing a certain sport for a year, but they can attend the school. And isn't going to school primarily about education. So no one is taking away their right to get the education they want. If you are truly about academics, then get your education, sit out the year and then play. Or under the new eligibility rules, if there was no athletic intent involved, you do not even have to sit out a year - but instead just sit out the playoffs

Simply enforce the existing rules (which include the changes made last summer and which really now are just in all practicality going into effect ) equally and fairly across the board and the problem is solved

Ok just stop I have a best friend on a staff of one of the prominent western pa catholic school. And he has admitted to me that recruiting happens he has explained how it happens and he knows members of the other schools staff and said it absolutely happens there. So please stop.

 

[Jeffburgh]

It would have more to do with locals giving up tax authority. I won't start on the politics of that but I'd guess the labor unions would eventually benefit from having larger bargaining units.

In part, the other issue is rivalries.

There is a reason Harrisburg wont even think of consolidations except in extreme situations, people would lose their minds if they were forced to merge with a rival school district.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

In part, the other issue is rivalries.

There is a reason Harrisburg wont even think of consolidations except in extreme situations, people would lose their minds if they were forced to merge with a rival school district.

It wouldn't require any loss of schools; only bureaucrats running them.

I don't think anyone was considering consolidation to eliminate specific schools, at least not me. I was only offering the idea of county wide management of schools, instead of each little town having to foot the bill for it.

 

[superstein61a]

There are 0 schools in Western PA which have real admission standards. If you want to pay to go to HS, any HS will take you. They may say they have standards but all of them will take your money......unless of your kid had major discipline problems or something like that. There have even been cases of kids being kicked out of a public school that went and played for a private school. In fact one kid I can remember that did this ended up murdering someone shortly after HS so dont tell me about standards.

Also your point of privates having better coaching is laughable. Maybe in some cases but not across the board.

That is utter bullshit. You clearly have no idea about admission standards nor the education field and are just spouting off some yet another of your off the wall ridiculous theories yet again.

Private schools turn away lots of kids each and every year because they do not have the academic chops to succeed. Doesn't matter how much money one has.

And I did not say EVERY private school coach is better then EVERY public school coach. There are some very good coaches at various public schools. But in general, the level of coaching is better at privates vs publics when you compare them against the same sized schools (ie Class 1A and 2A). You don't have the glorified gym teacher syndrome at that level of private schools you find at the smaller public schools